neil: it turns out that target had a lot more breaches than what they thought. that pretty sums up the color of the customers faces. customers who want to know how it is that all of their personal information got out while they were checking out. i'm talking about names and addresses and phone numbers. and for a lot of debit cardholders, direct access to the beta coutts themselves. not easier said than done for a

ceo to say sorry. because target has made a mess of it. but at least the retailer can take solace knowing that they are not alone. all confirming the same disturbing trend. this isn't the exception for shoppers, but it's looking like the rule. be careful because no matter how these guys are talking, you are just not safe as of yet unless you get smaater than the bad guys and fast and you are seeing

a, is that right? >> yes, i am seeing it. when people go out and they use their debit cards and credit cards. and you understand there is a risk you are taking. and now you can even trust the local target store. they can have the retail sale of the century this weekend and you would be cazy ere living under a rock if you ran into target and use your debit card. neil: so how bad is this dead and who is legally vulnerable people say my local bank, i blame you. how does that work? and there are already two significant class-action off of the 40 million per person nuer in december. one in utah and one in oregon.

and so obviously there is an enormous potential for damages and identity that and there is a lot of class actions against target with all the cost of dealing with this mass in trying to protect their customers and guaranteeing belt losses. they are going to possibly see records as well. neil: it makes people feel vulnerle, but it also violates the trust. and you don't know that someone has broken in as of yet. >> that's right, if you can't trust the place that you are shopping at come you're not going to go back there. others may benefit when you're going out. >> what will probably happen is that people will start using cash and cash is kng. they will only buy what they can afford and it's goingto fect

all retailers. neil: lets it has an impact on these institutions themselves because people are just very leery and everyone is fair game for a lawsuit. this could go out of control. >> that is true. i think it is going to depend and how much collateral damage and how quickly the bank can shut this down are part of it. are there rally going to be raids on people's bank accounts who have a debit card? how much identity theft? we don't know all of that yetet. but there certainly the potential. eecially taking out the cash and dealing with it. they are going to deal with encryption and other i.t. solutions and i think that they will advertise that. these machines are we all use on

we check out are connected to the internet in order to process this. >> what's a target or other stories, i think people are twice shy after being burned. >> i think it will take a long time. these companies spent a lot of money trying to influence and create loyalties and it's abot value and sometimes people associate target with theft and personal incompetence. it will take a long time for them to recover from that. neil: thank youoth very much. the good news is that banks and credit card companies generally stand by their customers and make good on any money that they might have lost. but what is a? what that piled up into a lot of money and billions of dollars? just how bad could this get?

we have a national bank chairman with us and joe perry. so how bad is this? >> well, it gets very about potentiay because you have all of the identity theft that could come from it as well as the monetary loss. and we are able to act very quickly. we acted immediately and closed out all of this. being a small thing, we could get our hands around it and we have within hours, we knew who had charged at target. neil: how do you know that? an how do you keep track of that? >> we have a fraud detection system. as we ran right into the system analytics. >> that would've been a big problem for us. fortunately the government

requires them to report. but as soon as we got e information we ran right into the system and conducted the analytics and then we had every customer that made a charge during that time and we notified the customers and turn off their cards and we have had no victims as a resul see on what is the procedure? because you have to call them back and say that there was an unusual purchase made. and that is have a track that. but what you do? how a normal buyer at target the sermonize? >> banks have something called the bank secrecy act and we have officers but look at the transaction on a daily basis. i was in europe at one point and got an e-mail from an officer saying that you have some charges on your card that look

and organized. and naturally they were fine. neil: it is refreshing to know that this can happen to other. >> absolutely. [laughter] >> with us it is interesting. because when we cut off all her customers democrats, we instituted something last year called instant issue debit cards and we have machines that are hooked up to our i.t. process and we have the customers cards, we cancel them and we have them come into the branch the next morning and we issue them new debit cards right away. >> slummy sleeve cover the costs. but if this gets out of hand and they are is an increase. so let's say that keeps going.

this could be a big thing easily. are you prepared for that? >> it depends on where the liability lies. i am not sure to space on this because i'mot sure what is being reported in the particular case of target we have no losses. we were able to identify anyone and shut off the cards. neil: but what about if you have hundreds of cutomers? >> it is a problem for us. and we try to make good on it. >> at the law that says that used to be that the vendors absorb the transaction and that

was changed by law to wear the banks have to absorb this. but who always pays? the consumer. because of use darts to take too many lawsuits you have to increase your fees. so that in the end the banks can absorb so much but it's just not fair. and so why should target or the vendor who wants to sell products, they know that they are not going to be on the hook for anything. >> right. >> then you have to put all the things in place and mitigate the losses in the future. >> i refuse and the name of the company certainly part of that. but this hasn't been the first

time it's happened with target. >> no, it is not. that's a very good point. when we come back, the young and welcome back. how is everything? there's nothing like being your own boss! and my customers are really liking your flat rate shipping. fedex one rate. really makes my life easier. maybe a promotion is in order. good news. i got a new title. and a raise? management couldn't make that happen. [ male announcer ] introducing fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex.

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[cheers] [cheers] >> one more. almost done. [cheers] neil: out. but it seems a lot of young people can relate. the latest misery for young people in particular are more down and out than ever we have charlie couric and alex smith who seem to know why. and you know what's weird about this is that it is reinvent across the age group and everything. what is going on? >> i i think that younger voters are just realizing that their economic circumstances are keeping them from the bigger

life choices. buying a home, becoming a parent from all of these things are being put on hold because younger voters and young people in general have more personal education and national debt than any other generation in history. neil: but a lot has been done with a lot of government programs. loan forgiveness and incentives to buy cars and drop loan debt. so what do you think? >> well, i think what we are starting to see is that young people are truly suffering and we are starting to see one of the greatest ironies of our time. the young people and the president build the backbone, they are going to have to pay the programs that they thought they could benefit from. i always say that it's lie a chicken voting for colonel sanders and you're having to pay for it andou are suffering and misery index shows it.

neil: i bet that there are a lot of chickens like colonel sanders. but here is what i am worried about. is that there is a disconnect and that is they do like the goal of helping people who need help. maybe themselves included. so is there a disconnect? or are they getting so miserable now they are rethinking everything or hating everybody? >> i think that the latest studies show that younger voters are trending towards becoming independents in the republican party brand is one that needs to sell itself, any movement is a win for the republican party. it shows that younger voters are restless and they want something different and they are open to an alternative. and they realized what the size and scope of government.

they think that the big government programs are broken and i'm not working for them. so i think that we see this movement and its younger voters being disinfected with the policy of the presidentstephen is moving towards republican thinking? and so who is to say this? >> well, i think it's incumbent on the gop coming up in 2014. they have to make the sales pitch. young people are suffering and there's no doubt. but that doesn't mean that it will translate with politicl benefits. the gop has to be able to persuade these individuals and make thebleeding stopped. the president obama said he wants to fundamentally transform america, that is built on the backs of young people and that is predicated on the fact thht young people will be voting for liberal policies in the next 50 years.

and if the gop can make a sales pitch, we will have these going 20 or 30 years down the road. >> you guys are way wiser than her years would indicate. i want to thank you both and i appreciated. >> thank you so much. see why democrats are calling for investigations over traffic so talk about a bridge to nowhere. where is all of this deliberately going? we will have that [ me announcer ] this is the story of the dusty basement at 06 35th street the old dining table at 25th and hoffman. ...and the little room above the strip mall f roble avenue. ♪ this magic momt it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those o believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world'great stories. that began much the same w ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment

♪

steam on all right, are your tax dollars going to work or maybe for the wrongork? or maybe all of this is a piece of work?

democrats are calling for more investigations into why the traffic was backing up. a lot of these same folks haven't said a lot about the people dying in benghazi. liz macdonald says that she feels upset. so you don't like this. is it a double standard? >> yes. and what happened with george washington bridge was awful. people not getting the care they needed, missing children, people searching for those children. it was awful. but what i'm saying is that everyone in office works for the taxpayer in this and this is not about what is good for the party, via democrats or republicans. but it's about what is good for the taxpayer. and that is to get to the bottom of benghazi, it's not a political thing. do not let things like what happened with george washington bridge happen ever again. both with benghazi and the

george washington bridge. >> if you want to get to the bottom, get to the bottom of it. going after reporters and the like. they getting to the bottom of these things andnot just picking and choosing what you want to get to the bottom of it or not i agree. we should always get to the bottom of these things. we are going to compare these two, i do think it's worth pointing out that the bridge fiasco is pure and simple a political punching bag issue. neil: so what were they targeting? was a blatant political targeting? >> yes, quite a few did call or investigation of that and i wanted to contrast it with benghazi which was a horrible national tragedy that affects all of us and that of course we should investigate what went wrong. but not to confuse it with a

political situation. >> we don't know what was going on there. i'm saying is that this is part of the argument. >> yes, they should be it on twitter right now. >> that's all they do. >> absolutely. yes, you are absolutely right and that's when trying to get out. we see so much about the political parties and we have to go after the root of this and what is best for the u.s. taxpayer. >> i'm not trying to minimize this. i think it's a clear thing that is orchestrated by the governor. and we see this all the time on the right and left and a promise of action, getting to the bottom of this. the other side calling for the investigation and i think that both sides should be defended

and all of the above. and yet i think that they both talk about the. >> well, you know, we are partly to blame. >> on te behalf of liz macdonald. and so we love these boxing matches and we love the fights and i think the american people, they love them too. but generally they don't love the fights. so the question becomes how high up did it go. this thing with chris christie is unique because it was so close to him and he has said as much. >> i think you it personally bothers me on that level alone.

>> but with the irs then, it was not particularly high,. >> good luck because it's talking about what is going on with the irs. and so that is the problem. and it's scary for every taxpayer in this country what is going on in the politicization of impossible wi the agency. >> but atom doesn't adam doesn't care. >> yes, i do care. especially if it were politicized at a high level. >> we do know that 10 democratic senators put pressure to do more >> okay, i bet you thought that those jobs created last month wereretty bad. what if i told you that the president gets his way and he will be begging for this

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neil: half-time, republicans are at full throttle. sixteen of them sending a letter to president obama, warning him that if he gets his way he is here to spell it out with me now. it's great to have you. happy new year. >> it's my pleasure. >> you are not happy about this? can you explain? >> the immigration policy has been the focus on the economic impact of the policies that we promulgate by way of example. just this week we are talking about unemployment insurance extension and senator harry reid

talked about there being three people competing for every job. that being the case, why would you want to under the gang of eight bell, seeking to impose its, bringing in or legalizing up to 44 million foreigners competing for jobs. it just doesn't make economic sense. >> the response that you generally here is that they won't instantly all be recognized. so you might instantly be making a fuss out of nothing. do you have anything to say that? >> that is true, but i didn't use the word instantly. i'm talking over a ten-year period of time. according to the department of homeland secuity, the amnesty bill will bring in 3 million per year for 10 years come a little bit over 10 million and at the same time it is supposed to be in neighborhood of 11 million people we believe the census department and i don't believe

that the error rate w that low when they were trying to count people in so i think in 40 million over a ten-year period of time come as a conservative estimate. when you look at the number of total jobs that we have, about 144 million. we have this massive influx of people that are already here and you are looking at a 25% increase over this ten-year period of time. it will have an adverse effect on those who are struggling and seeking jobs for those who are working at wages that are being artificially suppressed because of the large number of immigrants that we have allowed. neil: i have to tell you that the speaker seems hot to get immigration done. so how do you feel about that? >> well, i'm concerned that the

house leadership which has taken a variety of positions on immigration, i'm concerned that they will cave and get it into amnesty and that they are going to be a part of that. >> increasingly it has been anti-some of the more conservative members, yourself included. >> absolutely. there are a number of us that share that concern although we don't know for sure what the speaker's position will be this time. we are anxiously awaiting for his new principle that is supposed to be promulgated sometime this month. the one it sound like you're not a big fan. >> i am not. what can happen is good for our country? not much. congress has been ratified by the senate and thereafter must be signed by the president of the united states and we have two bodies from the white house and the senate that insist on amnesty.

so why are we pushing immigration bills we might like in the house of representatives in my be productive for american families and wage earners when we know that whatever we pass in the house has to go through a senate and the white house were will be dramatically changed probably in an adverse way americans with their incomes than their jobs. neil: one thing is you speak your mind. we enjoy having you. >> to give her the opportunity to. neil: be confused about health care? you are not alone. >> i have done a good job explaining and no one really knows what we have been getting out of bed. >> all of a sudden it was like okay, this is affecting me asñ

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neil: folks are going out and finding that a lot of them are not feeling too happy about his health care law.

not even two weeks end. they are already confused. >> you can get administration has done a good job explaining what this law is? >> yes, i think that it's cheaper than just everybody gets healthare. >> i think it's extremely confusing. >> i'm not clear on how the additional outlays are financed. >> people are losing their health insurance. some of the doctors can't even afford to take insurance anymore. >> what about someone like me, what are we supposed to do? >> if you like entrance before, it's sad except that other people are losing theirs. neil: that is just a few people. a lot of them are confused and the whole thing is getting even more confusing. the government ending its contract and you remember that as the company that paid at least $290 million to set up this website. tim cavanaugh says they ar

responsible for the underlying plan itself, including the health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius. it's good to have you with us. i don't see them rushing around. >> that's right. i would not hold my breath. there is the perception. and i don't know why that is because presidents go through secretaries and it doesn't seem to affect them. you look at ronald reagan and a lot of the cabinet secretaries, bill clinton, the same thing. there's a perception that if you start firing people it will cause a feeding frenzy or something like that. and i think the will see secretary sebelius and there indefinitely. it's hard to imagine a bigger failure and this is a huge failure. as with all of president obama's greatest failure, exactly when he gets exactly what he wants when he wants it. so it's hard to see any reason

not to fire kathleen sebelius. but i would not hold my breath he won the argument, it would be like firing someone who is at the launch of a new product and has a bumpy start like the ipod did for apple. and it took a couple of years for that device to take hold and to prove steve jobs right. they are saying that this is the same thing when in fact it could be just fine. >> i don't know enough about the apple corporate history. neither do i. >> i would think probably it is part of that. idon't think he's going to fire himself. that certainly there should be visible recognition that something has gone wrong. beyond just the speeches.

>> i think you are right. they will never do that. >> and it's strictly self protective that once that happens they feel like okay, there is going to be a feeding frenzy and maybe they are right. >> we could do worse than to have a feeding frenzy. >> writer. if they're concerned is to help the americanpeople rather than preserve the system, which the problems are really the tip of the iceberg and we are finding out a lot more today and we're seeingo much more today. >> and it's like the website glitches may turn out to be the best thing that ever happened. the one that's well put. it's good to have you on. thank you so much. well, from one small step to kate

>> it isime for you to let loose. much better. >> i just can't do it anymore. i don't now. [laughter] neil: first up, how do we go from this? >> is one small step for man. neil: tidbits. and she didn't go to space but something happened. but it says something and you

can imagine. it is good to know. someone has to do it. and they do defy gravity. in giving a whole new meaning to the new frontier. my buddy, and david asman. >> you know, when it comes to kate upton in a weightless situation, what do you think? there is a point to be made here and possibly several points. but i just can't understand. neil: how long would it take to go to mars? >> acouple of years.

neil: is anyone listening to us right now? >> i don't think anybody is. neil: all right. so here is how this is working. it seems mor and getting unruly and dangerous. instances involving passengers flying off the handle 12 fold in just the last four years. and a lot about this, overcrowded and no legroom and booze equals less. >> that is pretty good. and if the air traveler

experience hanna been this way, perhaps people wouldn't have anything to do with it. >> this may take some time. we have become the united states of victimhood. people feel entitled to everything. the moment something falls short of that, people cry victim and something is wrong. they act like this and babies act with more dignity. >> it is not only the passengers but the servers. they have no sense of decorum and no sense of dignity or politeness the way that they used to. so i think frankly a plague on all your houses. [laughter] >> all right, we couldn't let this go without getting information on this target story. just look. a lot have been saying goodbye target and hello wal-mart.

more people are shopping at target than obama's website. >> i would not shop at target anymore. i think part of the problem is that amazon, where i do a lot of my shopping, they are a lot more tech savvy than the brick and mortar stores. and they all have problems adjusting to technology. >> when you think of the hundreds of millions of orders at amazon.com and they didn't have as big of a problem as target income i'd stick with them over target. >> if you were a fast-moving company like amazon, which keeps up with the technology you can stay one step ahead of the hackers, if you are not, if your

target and sears, you may fall behind. neil: all right, they have taken you up on her offer. >> i guess i have to call home. neil: i guess you both better tuck your wives about that. [laughter] >> when we come back, going ballistic and not in a good way. he hears what was said about the iphone back in 2007. >> $500, that's the most expensive phone in the world. >> we will have more after this welcome back. how is everything? there's nothing like being your own boss! and my customers are really liking your flat rate shipping. fedex one rate. really makes my life easier. maybe a promotion is in order.

good news. i got a new title. and a raise? management couldn't make that happen. [ male announcer ] introducing fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. of the dusty basement at 06 35th street the old dining table at 25th and hoffman. ...and the little room above the strip mall f roble avenue. ♪ this magic momt it is the story of whre every great idea begins. and of those o believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world'great stories. that began much the same w ourdid. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪ where does the united states get most of its energy? is it africa? the middle east? canada? or the u.s.?

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neil: all right, i have proof that we are going to pot. and tonight's business buzz, i

mean business blitz, some appear to be unusually huny. for anything marijuana related. i wouldn't know. anyway, ever since marijuana started getting legalized, scores have been soaring. so what e heck is going on here? >> well, you have these penny stocks like some great names for these. >> i don't know where they get that from. but the good news is they can go up hundreds in a few days, but the bad news is that they are very difficult.

you can kind of get in but sometimes you can can't get out. and that's kind of where we are with this. >> we had a couple of young guys here yesterday who made a fortune trading these things back and forth. i mean, they do stand outso what is going on? >> well, the cat out of the bag and will be going to do about that? and frankly never in a million years would be be sitting on national television talking about this. and at some point there is an illegal carryover and i don't know that the price will adjust because of this. i like the opportunity and i think it's great. i'd like to make this on my money, but i'm not quite

concerned if you lose it. >> absolutely. neil: apple is moving and more companies are trying what everyone else says. what do you make of this? >> by apple. this is a huge market and it has been dominated bylackberry for so many years. and so for apple to get into this it is fantastic. >> it is not that fast or easy. because apple is making headway into the corporate workplace. most of those still have microsoft and windows machines and desktops. so they are penetrating us

portraits. >> it has gone from 1% to 8% and maybe even 11% and so i think they are making huge inroads. it means that they have solved the encouragement problem and that means that they should eat their words. he had no idea what he was talking about. >> you're talking about this in a boring way, all being part of this. so idon't know that it's good for apple or not. >> i think they have two kinds of markets dislike microsoft. working for ibm was the same.

in microsoft.net and it was like a huge wake-up call. >> will it ever get back to that $700 level their? >> i think it well. i think apple has its mojo back. but the one thing is if you ork with the government, you have to learn how to fix things. neil: apple could do it. so okay. were you loong for next week? >> it is january and so wise a market not up already? it supposed to be a positive month. we are down 1% and i'm looking for the market to make a turnaround. it's been a steady drip, not horrendous. but hopefully next week let the good times roll. neil: it has been a bumpy bumpy january. but what he will cannot? >> well, i am watching seers

closely because of what they say about the retail landscape. target had 6% one because of the data problems anda lot of people still shop there. and so i'm watching this as a consumer. neil: we have mentioned this and it does sort of have a bumpy start. >> especially the two signs that i have seen.

and i am good wit eight to 12%. neil: all right, gentlemen, thank you so much. >> the next greatest generation or a great pain in the butt. kennedy: captivating the culture like a polarizing comment. to the point of uselessness. these whippersnappe are using technology and drive. and i'm not going to speculate, but we can talk about it here on the millennial edition of "the independents." kennedy: