governmentforce that leaves everyone for. that's our show. see you next week. trip yellow knife.week. trip we will see you tomorrow on "fox and friends." >> see you then. . >> job creation, back on life support. last month, the fewest number of jobs added in three years, just 47,000. 10.4 million americans out of work and with the obamacare employer mandate looming, is it about to get worse? >> many firms are stopping new hires and cutting worker's hou because of the mandates of this new law. >> so is the head of u.s. chambers right or not? hi, everyone, this is the bulls an bears, this week, we got gary b. smith, tracy burns, jonas max

ferris, bernard whitman. welcome, everybody. john, we have been warning about this. is it going to get worse? >> yeah, we have been warning about this the wle time. something about this whole thing will be free. it didn't resonate. we said this would be paid for through tax dollars. we said we were going to have higher premiums. >> that is exactly what's going to happen. we said we were goi to have fewer health care options. we just had a terrible jobs number. the unemployment rate went down. weave the lowest labor force participation rate retention since march of 1938. 35 yea since jimmy carter's days sensee had fewer people employed percentage-wise tan right now. this obamacare is adding to the problem as in the fact that we are looking at lo-term unemployment enefits. what people wa are jobs. we are doing everything we can to hurt the fact that this country can not create jobs. >> this jobs report does it

convince you that omacare could hurt t job market? >> no, not at all. john is playing the role of chicken little again. >> watch out? you know who he is. >> the head of the u.s. chamber of commerce is talking down the economy. that's terrific t. facts are in the latest survey of cfos 4% of cfos said they would shift to part-time hiring as a result of obamacare. >> that is hardly a number to suggest hiring will be effected negatively. i think we need to continue to find ways of redung jobs. i think thebipartisan push is the way to go. fighting obamacare tooth and nail is not going to help. >>cracy, we are seeing so much uncertainties. whwould a small business sit down and say, i want to add four more workers when they have no idea what it's going to cost? >> right. they won't, brenda. that's the point here. >> that survey of vfos, we're

talking about the fortune 500, sit down and talk to a small business owner. he will say, btween taxes, regulations, i'm not hiring. as a matter of fact, small businesses have said. they make it very clear. small business optimism index is down. they are not hiring. if they, do it is part-time employees only. they don't want be locked in to have to pay benefits when they don't know what the numbers will be. >> there will be a lot of this is anticipation, projection. we did have a very bad jobs report. but is there a test case at all? any evidence, past evidence, that might tell us what wll happenith jobs? with when obamacare is effective. >> exactly, brenda, you it's anti-big or bigger government. my gut reaction is to say well, this is going to be bad. you are right. haven't done it bere. i think even bernard implied that, you know, we have to wait and see, but we ha a test case, as you said, we have massachusetts and there i was,

to be honest with you, i was kind of surprised to see their employer mandate really has had very little negative effect. i think it's for two reasons. the obamacare empyer mandate, the employers will actually get a tax credi so that's good for them. it's going to help tooffset a lot of this, to reduce the taxes. in lieu of that, in order to attract and this is the other reason i think it hasn't had a negative effect in massachusetts, employees are seeing this as a benefit. it's either kindof give me this health insurance or mayme more. i think in the case because the way taxes are set up under obamacare, it probably behooves employers, actually give them is obamacare because they get the tax credit. so it remains to be seen. it might not if we can base it on massachusetts, be as bad as i might have anticipated. >> okay. jonas, weigh in re. >> that's good f, because we don't know how people are going

to think. some people aren't in the labor force as the numberf people out who took themselves out they might be like, well, i can get a job, a crummy job has health care. i won't say in general. this doesn't mean the plan is good. but the actual effect from employers, let's say the government mandated that a company had to pay $500 of your health care costs. of your housing costs. are they going to fire everybody because of that? no, they will take it out of your other compensation. that's what we will see, pay raises won't go up to counter additional halth care costs. unless the total compensation doesn't go down the labor costs of the employer isn't going to down over the years. so there probably won't be a whole lot of firing going on because of this. >> jonas, to your point, cfos are saying, hey the costs will go up. we're not ing to pay them. if it goes no profits, they will push tse costs out on to us. >> that means the products that these companies are making are going to cost us more mey. so cfos will not foot the bill

to this, the second th see numbers go bad. nobody wants earnings on wall street these days. that's where the cfos wi come in and say, no, mas, you pay it. >> they won't wire i hire anybody, either. >> tracy the facts are we have seen the lowest rise in health care spending in over 50 years. we had a -- >> that was way before obamacare. >> don't credit obamacare. the price of health care is going up less and less, less than it has if 50 years and have seen skyrocketing health care costs for two decades. they have been passing this off for decades. >> you don't know what 2014 is going to look like. these numbers haven't kicked in yet. you watch saturday morning, it's more money because of it. okay. john, part-time workers, that's a big part of this is that employers are t wanting to buy full-time workers because they'll have to give obamacare

benefits. >> relate. that's where a lot of people are migrateing to. go back to bernard's point about health care costs coming down. it started in '3w0er7b9 ard, but obamacare wasn't around in '06789 it had to do with the recession. over 80% according to most studies having attributed to i understand you are trying to spin this. at's simply not factual. what we areooking at is the fact that we have structural high unemployment here in this countr and because of the energy sector, keeping ener prices low, manufacturing is coming back. jobs are being created. we are seeing taxes increaseon everything else. so we are seeing structural unemployment here and that is set to stay. because this administration is the most businessnfriendly administration probably in the history of this country. >> bernar >> all right. well, let's see, we've had the greatest job growth of late. how is the stockmarket doing?

>> jins since jimmy carter. 35 years. >> he was president when we had this low of jobs. >>all street is bullish on 2014, i don't think that the stock run-up would have occurred if businesses did not believe in the future of this country and the economy. >> okay. >> many benefitted quit well. >> wait, everything the obama administration has done has backfired. it has not upped the middle class one iota. the rich keep getting rich every day. >> guys. hold on. all right. good segment. here we go. while there may be a debate over obamacare impact on jobs, there is for the debating. this workers health care costs are spiking and guess who is getting hit the hardest? we are on the bottom of the hour. but up here fir, the target credit card breach is now bigger than any81 u one thought.

70 million americans at risk. [ indistinct conversations ]

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fixodent, and forget it. more headlines 30 minutes away. i wi sendou back to brenda. >> that massive credit and debit card breach at targ just got a whole lot worse. the retailer says up to 70 million customers may have had their information stolen as 30 million more than we originally thought. that's not good news, but are new rules and regulations, democrats in d.c. want, going to turn this into bad news for

everyone? gary, what do you say? >> brenda, i'm going to return to the old gary b you kw and love and say this is infuriateing. why does gornment always think they need to step in and look out for allous dumb schmos out here. government to the rescue. like we wouldn't be able figure this out ourselves. well, the target thing has been well publicized. target came out themselves twice now and said, look, we had this problem. now the problem is even worse. you know what people did? they stopped shopping at target. just as tracy said a few weeks ago. she said she wasn't going to shop at target. she was right. pele voted with their feet and wallet. that's the punishment that target makes, just like sears when they make their mistakes, people stop shopping there. we don't need the government and all their idiotic red tape to come in, to tell us what to eat,

where to shop, all this other nonsense. >> the punishment that target faced, isn't that enough to make you scar the crap, other countries wouldn't want that to happ to them. they may not release the information. >> it amazes me that replicans are somehow scared of consumer protection. thank god for patrick leahy. he has been trying to get the bill passed for almost a decade. it simply says this, it says if companies experience the security breaches, they have to report to consumers within a certain amount of time. water wrong with that? that's exactly what the house passed with regard to healthcare.gov. i think companies should be held accountable under the law to tell consumers if there has been a da fa breach or security breach. what is wrong with that? >> what is wrong with that, john? >> the problem is this is not a partisan issue. these guys in washington, d.c. can't run a one-car parade. ok at the $500 million website they built to outsource to t canadian company, be i the way.

they may be good at hacking into government data. target has been punished. les are supposed to be flat for the fourth quarter. they are down two-and-a-half%. when you talk about a market company, that is significant. i agree with the bill. they talk about the penalty phases. as far as putting more regulations in place, this congress knows nothing about this. >> jonas, what do you know about this? >> first of all, every company is a target or a disney or mcdonald's. the market would fix it. there is a lot of companies handleing your data that have no brand that will get lost. they will not know they re hacked, first of all. there is an area, it's actually government underreach, the government spent so little in this area to standardize things, r example, a wal et full of magnet ec strip credit cards, why is that allowed? no one company can fix that. you sort of need the government to set a rule. that i don't go over foreign haers nearly as aggressively. the ceos don't let you know you

are hacked. that's a minor offense. >> i love you, you in miami and maybe it's getting into hour your head the hot air. you people can't decide on what to order for lunch, you want them to dictate security and your data. you want them to have access to all that stuff? my god, i actually would put them on a sailboat behind you and send them out to saed and be done with them. tell them to stay away from my personal information. >> tracy, apple computer can't go after a hacker in the ukraine or whatever. they're not doing it well enough. >> they'll figure it out. >> this is why they have better telecom services. we antequated system that's

hackable. >> what if it was joe exxon? how do they enforce this, exactly? there are brainiacs there that came up with obamacare website. they're going to be able to enforce it. how are they going tone force it by the way, are they going to knock on the door at wal-mart, hey, have you had breaches? it's idiotic when the market does a good job of enforcing it. >> not that the market knows it happened. we cannot trust companies. >> how is the government going to know it happens? >> well, if you mandate the fact that the government private companies have to report when they have been breached. >> jonas said sometimes the companies don't know they have been hacked. >> they can't even do the tax return in a good april. how could youxpect them to keep track of everything? i'm sorry. that's got to be it. thks, guys. >> so you want a loan, better watch whatou type online or you may be denied. [ me announcer ] this is the story

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>> so you have a lot of friends on facebook. good luck getting a loanch lenders are snooping through your social media sites and online reviews for business before handing out the cash. trac are you okay with this? >> no, i'm not. it's unfortunate there are a lot of opposing forces that get involved in this stuff. people go on yelp an nasty things about restaurants, are u saying i won't get my loan

because some disgruntled guy got a dirty glass. i am doing things i'm not supposed to do. it's unfair to judge pe tlls there are rules or reg layings or a guideline out there. otherwise, no that's left for me, my family, my friends, be done with it. >> you might be able to find out if, in fact, this person had the job that he is talking about on his resume. >> look, my father was a community banker. he had lowoans to default ratio. he knew hicustomer. he would call somedy that did. the problem that we have now is people don't foe their customers and this is a way of doing due diligence. this will lower loan costs for everybody. it will lower default risks. to me, this is simply a matter of doing the things that a person who loans money should be doing. >> gary, is is this snooping or smart siness? >> i think they make good points, i'm more along the lines with john on this. i want companies to make the

best decision possible if they like tracy said use some of this stuff. it's silly information like the yelpreview him then they're doing themselves a disservice and a competitor will jump in, make that loan that the company a deniedthem. so i think it's good. look, i want the compies to make good, smart, prudent decisions. as john said, it will end up lowering costs, not raising costs. >> john, how can you calculate credit scores from facebook or twitter? how do you add that into the fico? >> you would look, if i hang out with a bunch of losers who defat with the same card company, all of a sudden they will make me a loan. that's one way they would do it. look, i've got there is no question in my mind this will lower loan costs because they will lower their default rates by being more choosey. at what cost? look the people did a fico score to tap our phones. i'm su they can physical out your credit rating better than

if you paid a late phone bill. the fact of the matter does that make us a better society, yes, we get a half of a percent lower rate. they are literally snooping on our personal behavior. that's not fair game i don't think. >> i got to get bernard in her >> thing is it may call for more regulation, which is the first time i ever heard that. >> i did not say governmental reg lachlths i did not. >> i think it's why because employers it all the time. until there is a coelation between social media posts and credit worthiness i think they are silly to trawl on twitter and instagram. they have to determine and verify that there are actual correlations to what people post and how credit worthy they r. after all, we have to remember, our social media tends to very kurated. it is likely we are getting an unvarnisd picture of where we are. >> it's a backhanded way of ageing with me. >> on that note, we will leave

it there. thank you, guys. and thank you, too, bern offered, for joining us. lots of buzz over how new jersey governor chris christie is handling the so-called bridgegate. we'll get ready for more buzz after you hear how avoiding this from ever happening again would u could make you a mint [beep] [indistinct chatter]

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>> you know what we have lrned from chris christie? bridgegate? we need more bridges. bridge builder gva up 30%. >> the bridge to nowhere. >> already. good one. >> tracy, your prediction. >> sales were down, big disappointment. i'll tell you what, economy not asood as we think. >> okay. john,our prediction. >> wb changed television with closed circuit. online changed it completely probably their biggest change. i think it's up20%. wwe, full disclosure i own the stock. >> associated, are you the champion of the world! >> that's right. >> biggest champion in smackdown history. >> gary b. bum ore bear on that? >> 250 miles away, i can safely say bear. >> jonas your prediction, quickly. >> consumer shows in the future is upon us, dick tracy to work out in the sunshine, where you

suckers are fighting the polar vortex. >> that is a qualcomm product up 50%. >>he smart thing i will say right now is happy gary b! >> thank you very much. >> well isn't this rich? he's not just the rich. it seems that everyone else has thease of the health care blues. talk about stuck in the middle. why so many are raising tir middle finger. according to a new survey from bankrate.com. we all have a serious case of health care.bum, calm it the middle class cantasia, more than 50% of those earning $50,000 to $75,000 see more money taken from their paychecks to pay for health care. enough to make you sick and our panelists puke. >> by the way, i