yellow knife. we will see you tomorrow on "fox and friends." >> see you then. . >> job creation, back on life support. last month, the fewest number of jobs added in three years, just 47,000. 10.4 million americans out of worknd with the obamacare employer mandate looming, is it about to get worse? >> many firms are stopping new hires and cutting worker's hours because of the mandates of this new law. >> so is the head of u.s. chambers right or not? hi, everyone, this is the bulls an bears, this week, we got gary b. smith, tracy burns, jonas max

ferris, bernard whitman. welcome, everybody. john, we have been warning about this. is it going to get worse? >> yeah, we have been warning about this the whole time. something about this whole thing wi be free. it didn't resonate. we said ts would be paid for through tax dollars. we said we were going to have higher premiums. >> that is exactly what's going to happen. we said we were going to have fewer health care options. we just had a terrible jobs number. the unemployment rate went down. we have the lowest labor force participation rate retention since march of 1938. 35 years since jimmy carter's days sense we had fewer people employed percentage-wise tan right now. this obamacare is adding to the problem as in the fact that we are looking at long-term unemployment benefits. what people want are jobs. we are doing everything we can to hurt the fact that this country can not create jobs. >> this jobs report does it

convince you that obamacare could hurt the job market? >> no, not at all. john is playing the role of chicken little again. >> watch out? you know who he is. >> the head of the u.s. chamber of commerce is talking down the economy. that's terrific t. facts are in the latest survey of cfos 4% of cfos said they would shift to part-time hiring as a result of obamacare. >> that is hardly a number to suggest hiring will be effected negatively. i think we need to continue to find waysof reducing jobs. i think the bipartisan push is the way to go. fighting obamacare too and nail is not going to help. >>cracy, we are seeing so much uncertainties. why would a small bdown and sayr more workers when they have no idea what it's going to cost? >> right. they won't, brenda. that's the point here. >> that survey of vfos, we're

talking about the fortune 500, sit down and talk to a small business owner. he will say, between taxes, regulations, i'm not hiring. as a matter of fact, small businesses have said. they make it very clear. small business optimism index is down. they are not hiring. if they, do it is part-time employees only. they don't want to be locked in to have to pay benefits when they don't know what the numbers will be. >> thereill be a lot of this is anticipation, projection. we did have a very bad jobs report. but is there a test case at all? any evidence, past evidence, that might tell us what will happen with jobs? with when obamacare is effective. >> exactly, brenda, you know, it's anti-big or bigger government. my gut reaction is to say well, this is going to be bad. you are right. we haven't done it before. i think even bernard implied that, you know, we have to wait and see, but we have a test case, as you said, we have

massachusetts and there i was, to be honest with you, i was kind of surprised to see their employer mandate really has had very little negative effect. i think it's for two reasons. the obamacare employer mandate, the employers will actually get a tax credit. so that's good for them. it's going to help to offset a lot of this, to reduce the taxe in lieu of that, in order to attract and this is the other reason i think it hasn't had a negative effect in massachusetts, employees are seeing this as a benefit. it's either kind of give me this health insurance or mayme more. i think in the case because the way taxes are set up under obamacare, it probably behooves employers, actually give them this obamacare because they get the tax credit. so it remains to be seen. it might not if we can base it on massachusetts, be as bad as i might have anticipated. >> okay. jonas, weigh in here. >> that's good fun, because we

don't know how people are going to think. some people aren't in the labor force as the number of people out who took themselves out. they might be like, well, i can get a job, a crummy job has health care. i won't say in general. this doesn't mean the plan is good. but the actual effect from employers, let's say the government mandated that a company had to pay $500 of your health care costs. of your housing costs. are they going to fire everybody because of that? no, they will take it out of your other compensation. that's what we will see, pay raises won't go up to counter additional health care costs. unless the total compensation doesn't go down the labor costs of the employer isn't going to go down over the years. so there probably won't be a whole lot of firing going on because of this. >> jonas, to your point, cfos are saying, hey the costs will go up. we're not going to pay them. if it goes no profits, they will push these costs out on to us. >> that means the products that these compies are making are going to cost us more money.

so cfos will not foot the bill to this, the second they see numbers go bad. nobody wants earnings on wall street these days. that's where the cfos will come in and say, no, mas, you pay it. >> they won't wire i hire anybody, either. >> tracy the facts are we have seen the lowest rise in health care spending in over 50 years. we had a -- >> that was way before obamacare. >> don't creditobamacare. the price of health care is going up less and less, less than it has if 50 years and we have seen skyrocketing health care costs for two decades. they have be passing this off for decades. >> you don't know what 2014 is going to look like. these numbers haven't kicked in yet. you watch saturday morning, it's more money because of it. okay. john, part-time workers, that's a big part of this is that employers are not wanting to bu full-time workers because

they'll have to give obamare benefits. >> relate. that'shere a lot of people are migrateing to. go back to bernard's point about health care costs coming down. it started in '30er7b9 ard, but obamacare wasn't around in '06789 it had to do with the recession. over 80% according to most studies having attributed to i understand you are trying to spin this. that's simply not factual. what we are looking at is the fact that we have structural high unemployment here in this country and because of the energy sector, keeping energy prices low, manufacturing is coming back. jobsre being created. we a seeing taxes increased on everything else. so we are seeing structural unemployment here and that is set to stay. because this administration is the most business unfriendly administration probably in the history of this country. >> bernard. >> all right. well, let's see, we've had the greatest job growth of late. how is the stockmarket doing?

>> jins since jimmy carter. 35 years. >> he was president when we had this low of jobs. >> wall street is bullish on 2014, i don't think that the stock run-up would have occurred if businesses did not believe in the future of this country and the economy. >> okay. >> many benefitted quit well. >> wait, everything the obama administration has done has backfired. it has not upped the middle class one iota. the rich keep getting rich every day. >> guys. hold on. all right. good segment. here we go. while there may be a debate over obamacare impact on jobs, there is for the debating. this workers health care costs are spiking and guess who is getting hit the hardest? we are on the bottom of the hour. but up here first, the target credit card breach is now bigger than any81 u one thought.

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more headlines 30 minutes away. i will send you back to brenda. >> that massive credit and debit card breach at target just got a whole lot worse. the retailer says up to 70 million customers may have had their information stolen as 30 million more than we originally thght. that's not good news, but are new rules and regulations, democrats in d.c. want, going to turn this into bad news for

everyone? gary, what do you say? >> brenda, i'm goi to return to the old gary b you know and love and say this is infuriateing. why does government always think they need to step in and look out for allous dumb schmos out here. government to the rescue. like we wouldn't be able figure this out ourselves. well, the target thing hs been well publicized. target came out themselves twice now and said, look, we had this problem. now the problem is even worse. you know what people did? they stopped shopping at target. just as tracy said a few weeks ago. she said she wasn't going to shop at target. she was right. people voted with their feet and wallet. that's the punishment that target makes, just like sears when they make their mistakes, people stop shopping there. we don't need the government and all their idiotic red tape to come in, to tell us what to eat,

where to shop, all this other nonsense. >> the punishment that target faced, isn't that enough to make you scare the crap, other countries wouldn't want that to happen to them. they may not release the information. >> it amazes me that republicans are somehow scared of consumer prection. thank god for patrick leahy. he has been trying to get the bill passed for almost a decade. it simply says this, it says if companies experience the security breaches, they have to report to consumers within a certain amount oftime. water wrong with that? that's exactly what the house passed with regard to healthcare.gov. i think companies should be held accountable under the law to tell consumers if there has been a da fa breach or security breach. what is wrong with that? >> what is wrong with that, john? >> the problem is this is not a partisan issue. these guys in washington, d.c. can't run a one-car parade. look at the $500 million website they built to outsource to the canadian company, be i the way.

they may be good at hacking into government data. target has bn punished. sales are supposed to be flat for the fourth quarte they are down two-and-a-half%. when you talk about a market company, that is significant. i agree with the bill. they talk about the penalty phases. as far as putting more regulations in place, this congress knows nothing about this. >> jonas, what do you know about this? >> first of all, evy company is a target or a disney mcdonald's. the market would fix it. there is a lot of companies handleing your data that have no brand that will get lost. they will not know they were hacked, first of all. there is an area, it's actually government underreach, the government spent so little in this area to standardize things, for example, a wal et full of magnet ec strip credit cards, why is that allowed? no one company can fix that. you sort of need the government to set a rule. that i don't go over foreign hackers nearly as aggressively.

the ceos don't let you know you are hacked. that's a minor offense. >> i love you, you in miami and maybe it's getting into hour your head the hot air. you people can't decide on what to order for lunch, you want them to dictate security and your data. you want them to have access to all that stuff? my god, i actually would put them on a sailboat behind you and send them out to saed and be done with them. tell them to stay away from my personal information. >> tracy, apple computer can't go after a hacker in the ukraine or whatever. they're not doing it well enough. >> they'll figure it out. >> this is why they have better telecom services. we antequated system that's

hackable. >> what if it was joe exxon? how do they enforce this, exactly? there are brainiacs there that came up with obamacare website. they're going to be able to enforce it. how are they going tone force it by the way, are they going to knock on the door at wal-mart, hey, have you had breaches? it's idiotic when the market does a good job of enforcing it. >> not that the market knows it ppened. we cannot trust companies. >> how is the government going to know it happens? >> well, if you mandate the fact that the government private companies have to report when they have been breached. >> jonas said sometimes the companies don't know they have been hacked. >> they can't even do the tax return in a good april. how could you expect them to keep track of everything? i'm sorry. that's got to be it. thanks, guys. >>o you want a loan, better watch what you type online or you may be denied. [ me announcer ] this is the story

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>> so you have a lot of friends on facebook. good luck getting a loanch lenders are snooping through your social media sites and online reviews for business before handing out the cash. tracy, are you okay with this? >> no, i'm not. it's unfortunate tere are a lot of opposing forces that get involved in this stuff. people go on yelp and post nasty things about restaurants, are you saying i won't get my loan

because some disgruntled guy got a dirty glass. i am doing things i'm not supposed to do. it's unfair to judge pe tlls there are rules or reg layings or a guideline out there. otherwise, no that's left for me, my family, my friends, be done with it. >> you might be able to find out if, in fact, this person had the job that he is talking about on his resume. >> look, my father was a community banker. he had low loans to default ratio. he knew his customer. he would call somebody that did. the problem that we have now is people don't foe their customers and this is a way of doing due diligence. this will lower loan costs for everybody. it will lower default risks. to me, this is simply a matter of dng the things that a person who loans money should be doing. >> gary, is is this snooping or smart business? >> i think they make good points, i'm more along the lines with john on this. i want companies to make the

best decision possible if they like tracy said use some of this stuff. it's silly information like the yelp review him then they're doing themselves a disservice and a competitor will jump in, make that loan that the company a denied them. so i think it's good. look, i want the companies to make good, smart, prudent decisions. as john said, it will end up lowering costs, not raising costs. >> john, how can you calculate credit scores from facebook or twitter? how do you add that into the fico? >> you would look, if i hang out with a bunch of losers who default with the same card company, all of a sudden they will make me a loan. that's one way they woul do it. look, i've got, there is no question in my mind this will lower loan costs because they will lower their default rates by being more choosey. at what cost? look the people did a fico score to tap our phones. i'm sure they can physical out your credit rating better than

if you paid a late phone bill. the fact of the matter does that make us a better society, yes, we get a half of a percent lower rate. they are literally snooping on our personal behavior. that's not fair game i don't think. >> i got to get bernard in here. >> thing is it may call for more regulation, which is the first time i ever heard that. >> i did not say governmental reg lachlths i did not. >> i think it's why because employers do it all the time. until the is a correlation between social media posts and credit worthiness i think they are silly to trawl on twitter and instagram. they have to determine and veri that there are actual correlations to what people post and how credit worthy they r. after all, we have to remember, our social media tends to be very kurated. it is likely we are getting an unvarnished picture of where we are. >> it's a backhanded y of agreeing with me. >> on that note, we will leave

it there. thank you, guys. and thank you, too, bern offered, for joining us. lots of buzz over how new jersey governor chris christie is handling the so-called bridgegate. we'll get ready for more buzz after you hear how avoiding this from ever happening again would u could make you a mint so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right, no hidd fees. it's just that i'm worried about, you know, "hidden things." ok, why's that?

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>> you know what we have learned from chris christie? bridgegate? we need more bridges. bridge builder gva up 30%. >> the bridge to nowhere. >> already. od one. >> tracy, your prediction. >> sales were down, big disappointment. i'll tell you what, economy not as goods we think. >> okay. john, your prediction. >> wb changed television with closed circuit. online changed it completely probably their biggest change. i think it's up 20%. wwe, full disclosure iwn the stock. >> associated, are you the champion of the world! >> that's right. >> biggest champion in smackdown history. >> gary b. bum ore bear on that? >> 250 miles away, i can safely say bear. >> jonas your prediction, quickly. >> consumer shows in the future is upon us, dick tracy to work

out in the sunshine, where you suckers are fighting the polar vortex. >> that is a qualcomm product up 50%. >> the smart thing i will say right now is happy gary b! >> thank you very much. >> well isn't this rich? he's not just the rich. it seems that everyone else has the case of the health care blues. talk about stuck in the middle. why so my are raising their middle finger. according to a new survey from bankrate.com. we all have a serious case of health care.bum, calm it the middle class cantasia, more than 50% of those earning $50,000 to $75,000 see more money taken from their paychecks to pay for health care. enough to make you sick and our panelists puke. >> by the way, i