experience. >> jonas, your prediction. >> justin bieber got pulled over in a lamborghini. ride fast in a car that look it goes slow. >> polar bear. >> big poor justin bieber. >> all right. look at that, awkward, we are deal close with terror threats ahead of the winter olympics over there. something this guy is worried about that is a lot more of a threat over here. hi, everyone, i'm neil cavuto, call at this time natiol security debt threat. retired admiral mike mullen at one time the highest rank cse militatary officer in our natio sound close off about all the spending going on in our nation and all that debt that's behind it. >> we just can't be the country that we are capable of in th time in the world reneed it as much as we feed it if we keep spending ourselves into

oblivion. >> so is he on something? charles haines, take it now. is he overdramatize close it or do you think he's legitimately got a point? >> i think he's legitimately got a point. overspending can wre people, businesses and countries. ask rogue what happened over there. >> it's been hard to ask a whole city. >> the roman empire or one of the many historians. >> you have relativesthere. >> here we go. charlie, defend me, the italian stuff started. >> in naples. >> in other words, you overdo it. it's a matter of time? >> before your money is going to fund to pay off the interest on a ga zillion dollars in debt. >> i'm wonder whack he is

hinting at whe so many known e own your debt, the nefarious characters, people that don't love you. >> china. >> we may be not so quick to challenge them. >> a couple caveats here. i don't know where mr. mullen got his ph.d. in economics, that's one. number two, is is he talking act the mility, it eats up a lot of our budget. that's a lot of spending, we borrow because we have a huge military presence around the world. >> how do you assign motive to what he said? >> i'm saying those are caveats to throw out, face it. abraham lincoln said it. we wilfall apart from within. for the one is going to take over. >> what he was more or less saying if you are a deadbeat, you don't get much respect, the eyes in the global community, we are losing our cache. i'm wonding if that trand lates into them thinking are you

a joke militarily as well. >> that might be a leap too much. >> i don't know, you lose with so much debt. you lose political flexibility and military flexible. >> that is going back years. you had people saying we can't go to war with syria. we don't have the fund to that at this point. that was last spring, last august, for example. then secondly, you have china. they have enormous leverage over us because they're the number one reign holder of our debt. we won't act potentially as we should, whether it's militarily or even economically with china because we need them to by our debt. >> well, they have our debt. we have their money. it's a pretty even balance there. they d thought wantto jeopardize their investment in the united states. it's a separate subject. >> is that a threat? do you act like, well, you nee us more than we need you? so don't even try me? >> i don't think they would take that too seriously. yes, i think it is a threat.

yes. >> okay. ben, what do you make of all this? >> i don't think admiral mullen has any training in economics whatsoever. that's one. he's trained in land and building acre carriers than commanding them, not in economics. two, there has never been an example in the entire history of mankind of a large civilization fa went under because of its debt be close excessive. three if the debt is one solutit to spend less, pour the military force of the unitestates while not as strong as they were a few years ago, are they equal of the entire military forces of the rest of the world, and we spend as much in the u.s. with 5% of the population as the entire rest of the world. ask the al qaeda terrorists either blown up or their families blown up in yemen if they're not scared of us. we have more supersonic sps put togetherhan the world together. >> besides that. here's what i'm saying, by the

way tim geithner has the background in economics. >> he's got the version you were quoti quoting. >> let me make a ounterpart. >> tim geithner is a cookie pushingdiplomat. >> ben, 100 years ago, everything you laid out, the british laid it out as well. >> interests stillthriving. >> business is thriving all over. you know what guys -- they have no more military power outside of the -- i'm saying, if we can't -- we're in trouble. >> that's because they have us. look. there is nobody, there is nobody out there in any serious way to challenge us militarily. in the future, cna will. but for now, we are the dominant military power. we are buying huge amount owes owe. >> my own view on this, a lot of you have -- not be close

disrespectful. exactly. but one of the things that keep coming up here, does it give you pause about the spending of money as mentioned in syria getting involved when you owe so much.? or you don't have any? >> i do not buy we didn't go to syria because of money. there is a lot of other reasons why we weren't in syria. >> i agree. >> i think that's a pretty lame, dopey statement. >> wait. in-house the dopey one or me making it? >> well, not you. >> whoever made that statement, that statement is insane. >> you don't think -- wren the tunnel driving, you don't think,er with not going back into space. >> there is a point where you can't borrow anymore, where the reserve -- >> we're at that point. >> we are nowhere near. i am, however, very worried -- >> we are not close to that point. >> -- about giving more power to china, our largest foreign

holder otreasuries while, when the federal reserves, t me finish, is just beginning to pullack on the bond buying. the federal reserves last year and in the first 11 months of the year bought four times the amount of treasuries that china did. so when the fed steps away from that, we need china to step in to keep interest rates where they are. >> they are in the u.s. for a reason. i'm an ad advocate of much more debt. i don't like the fed buying. >> we will sound like patty hest on this show. >> they are baking a bet on the u.s. >> that was my point. >> what was your point? >> that's all of our points, we all make that point. i did say that, that was my original point. >> we all made that point. they need us as much as we need them. >> you are missing what the gift of what admiral mullen was saying, our debt and the fact that we are paying each and

every year more interest or debt, it's interest clos that is strangle close us. i think it's -- if that is a threat -- that does get to be a threat. >> we are not may paying more. >> it's a vol -- >> you are an economic genius. the cost of carrying the debt is going to be expensive and we'r going to be up against a wall. >> you don't ow. yes, i do. >> your you're saying that as a hypothesis. >> the interest rates show up then. the cost of carrying that debt is price -- yes or no? >> we pay it ourselves, the federal holder holds the debt. they turn it over to the treasury. >> you are saying they can play games? >> you've identified the problem it's a ponzi scheme.

>> when the people lose confidence, when the global world loses confidence. >> that's what charles said at the outset. >> i this i that it's fool hardy -- it's fool hardy and fear sed to dismiss it if there was no chance in hell. >> you guys sound like the guys who sid apparently there are some bar barians of the game. >> how many years to implode, rome, like 3,000 years? i don't know, how ma years? >> well, the last ten, we are talking. all right. we will ke a break. >> how many years? >> 450. >> we will take a break. did any of you see this? >> i imagine it's going to be fun, i'll embrace it. i'll have my teammates there. we'll enjoy the moment. it's a once in a lifetime experience for us. >> richard sherman all pro-football star is not talking about going to the super bowl. he is talking about our wall-to-wall coverage of the state of the union address. at 8:00 p.m. it's the only place where you are going t get simultaneous

mark reactions the president is spoking from the markets the world over. you are also going to hear from people who are worried about spending initiative compounding the debt issue we are talking about. you can go to a business, that worker gets the markets react close, you can also go to news network, hear the speech. so what are you doing watching anything else? wake up. all right. up next, up next, forgive about this week's snowstorm and bundle up for the latest snow job on global warming. from the united nations, guess, guess, guess who they are blaming now. [ music playing ]

i'll send you back to cavuto on business only on fox. . >> call it the billing chill. i'm not talking about the winter blast gripping most of the company. a report from the united nations saying rich nations are fuel close global warming. here's our argument. they are producing more gdz for a developing country and compounding their sins. charles payne, i think that means they are blaming pos spert. >> no, but they're blaming global prosperity, too. noon of those countries are getting to a positionhere they can afford this stuff. shame on america for selling it to them. oh, you want a harley-davidson in brazil? you want a whirlpool washer and dryer in argentina?

america shame on you for selling it to them. this is all a part of the whole thing, redistribution of money. that's all it is, another guilt trip. who will be guilty for making great products and selling them to people who want them around the world. >> i know it's aproblem, you instany came on yelling. >> i get that, god bless you. what are you going to do? >> i thought the report was comical, china is the biggest emitter in the world of greenhouse gases. they need to get near missions in check. china working with the u.s. trying to implement some vehicle emixes standard, but instead this report blames us for buying the products that are made in coin. they're blaming us for buying smartphones and clothing and the like. >> should we stop doing that? >> they are basically, go back to the 1940s and live there and don't use smartphones or the 1950s? >> as someone who walked to the studio from third avenue on this

global warming. i am in favor of global warping, is what it comes dow to. >> i didn't walk to thestudio. i will say this, most prosperous countries have a better hanle on their environment than these, you know the third world countries where they pollute everything, where, you know, people live in squalor. by the way, remember the old soviet block, people used to talk about back in the '70s when the environmental move him was starting, how bad is the environmenhere? what was worse in the old soviet block or the united states? >> the c 02 emissions. >> i'm remembering the old wendy's commercials. swim wear. >> i thought all the ukrainian women were ugly. when i saw this person, wow. real quick, though, that's just another thing, these emerging nation's are saying we bought theo use fossil fuels, we got to catch up. it's unfair for you to tell us not to. >> ben stein, what do you think of the u.n. getting involved in this? it's been a consistent push.

putting the onus particularly on rich nations. >> karlsson, this is consistent with their lifetime pattern ever since the u.s. lost control in the 1960s, blaming the u.s. on everything. we produce more pollution per person because we prode more of everything per person, but china as my beautiful dig so aptly said is the world's number e culprit. nobody is yelng at them. all these development gunners are pollute close like crazy, nobody is yelping attm. it's just other case of blame the rich guy and blame america just because america because we are free and rich. they hate us because we are free and rich. they are joelous. >> they're like adam, right, adam? >> well, you know, in thespirit of ben, i'd say my esteamed intelligent friend here are all sticking their heads in the sand, what you all are trying to ignore arehe fact, which the united statess. >> it's 10 degrees outsid what are you talking act? >> it's one planet. we are all responsle for that one planet.

you can deny all this stuff all you want. that's what you are doing instead of having an intelligent conversation about it. >> wait, adam -- >> like in california. >> theay the reads, though, china is emitting these greenhouse gases but it's not coin's problem t deal with. it's our fault. that's why everybody needs to take responsibility for their own actions, period. >> of course, it's everyone's problem, i agree. >> except china. all right, another obamacare delay, this tim for a rule telling companies effective benefits they cannd cannot offer their employees. is that rely the government's place? the forbes gang debating it at the top of the hour, but up next, d we just find out this guy acted like this buy the? after these guys downgraded our credit report?

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all right. from downgrading to just plain old strong arming. according to a new court filing. former treasury secretary tim geithner warned standard & poor's, actually company chairman, after the 2011 decision to downgrade the u.s. credit rating. now the former secrery is denying it. but back then on this show, we were at least wondering about it. >> is the government using the heavy-handed thug power -- >> yes! >> -- to stri back at the critics? >> yes. >> i'm curious about the timing. i'll leave it at that.

>> if they bring a knife you bring a gun. thats the chicago way. >> thank you. mild mannered tim geithner by day, but unlike clark kept when he gets out of the phone booth, he is mad. this is a hallmark of the administration. it's been all about intimidation. follow through on the intimidation. so it's interesting that this is coming out now. >> yeah. >> what is weird about it, s.p. was the only punished b the governme for the ratings that was crap. moody's and fitch did the same thing but they did not downgre the u.s. debt. >> this is like the gambinos and the bambanos killi each other off. i have zero sympathy for "svp & s&p. they deserved to be charged. it looked at the evidence. the evidce is in some ways worse in terms of the s&p

hands moody's and fitch in terms of the e-mail. >> did all three degrade securitys? yes. >> did any of the three -- >> with all due respect, counselor, you go by facts and evidence and intent. the e-mails at s&p showed more intent than moody's and fitch. everybody i know in government downgraded complainedto the rating agencies. tim geithner may be an idiot, but he is not a thug. >> i don't think he is an idiot. there waa vendetta here. had the other two been swept up, i would have said i can understand, fine. only s&p and with the downgrade. >> i disagreed with you on the premise before when we talked about this and i was wrong. based on this affidavit, he did threaten s&p. suddenly, smartly, so he wouldn't get in trouble for it

but he made a threat. >> ben and adam. ben, what do you think? >> government officials are human. when they are threatened, they threaten back. they don't take a vow sayi they will become government officials. standard practice. i believe it was tit-for-tat. >> okay. adam? >> i totally agree. it not just government borrowers that complain. every issueer complains, corporations, too if they don't like the rating. >> he didn't threaten. >> he said you'll sleep with the fishes. i'm kidding. i'm kidding. >> you should hear what i i say. >> stick around. thanks to charliand dagen. now how to play this so far in an ugly year.

going global, stocks around the globe. charles? >> they lost momentum last year in the u.s. but i think toyota motors will get their act together. >> adam, what doou think? >> i just am afraid of investing in the auto industry, but i don't dislike toyota. >> what do you like? >> the ishares frontier 100 e.t.f. deal. companies really small economies. this is a risky one. >> all right, what do you think of that pick, ben? >> a darn good pick. i admire the fact th adam has been learning about indexes very, very, very well. i like e.w.j. japan is number one. as far as i'm concerned there is nobody who can beat the japanese when they get their

mind set on it. i like the e.w.j. japanese index funds. >> i like that. i like abi. more than just printing money. a real deal. >> gentlemen, thank you. cost of freedom the place for business. us. the era of big government is over. >> remember that 18 years ago. then president clinton declaring the big government was dead going in his second term. he said it as washington was in a massive reform of welfare. well n, with president obama getting ready for his second term "state of the union" address, welfare going the otheway. record one in five households are now on food stamps and a whopping 100 million americans are receiving some sort of food assistance. how did we get derailed from ending welfare as we know it? how do we get back on track? hi, everybody, i'm david asman. welcome to "forbes on fox." go in focus with steve