experience. >> jonas, your prediction. >> justin bieber got pulled over in a lamborghini. ride fast in a car that look it goes slow. >> polar bear. >> big poor justin bieber. >> all right. look at that, awkward, we are deal close with terror threats ahead of the winter olympics over there. something this guy is worried abouthat is a lot more of a threat over here. hi, everyone, i'm neil cavuto, call at this time national security debt threat. retired admiral mike mullen at one time the highest rank close military officer in our nation sound close off about all the spending going on in our nation and all that debt that's behind it. >> we just can't be the country that we are capable of in the time in the world reneed it as much as we feed it if we keep spending ourselves into

oblivion. >> so is he on something? charles haines, take it now. is he overdramatize close it or do you think he's legitimately got a point? >> i think he's legitimately got a point. overspending can wreck people, businesses and countries. ask rogue what happened over ther >> it's en hard to ask a whole city. >> the roman empire or one of the many historians. >> you have relatives there. >> here we go. charlie, defend me, the italian stuff started. >> in naples. >> in other words, you overdo it. it's a matter of time? >> before your money is going to fund to pay off the interest on a ga zillion dollars in debt. >> i'm wonder whack he is

hinting at when so many known e own your debt, the nefarious characters, people that don't love you. >> china. >> we may be not so quick to challenge them. >> a couple caveats here. don't know where mr. mullen got his ph.d. in economics, that's one. number two, is is he talking act the military, it eats up a lot of our budget. that's a lot of spending, we borrow because we have a huge military presence around the world. >> how do you assign motive to what he said? >> i'm saying those are cavea to throw out, face it. abram lincoln said it. we will fall apart from within. for the one is going to take us over. >> what he was more or less saying if you are a deadbeat, you don't get much respect, the eyes in the global community, we are losing our cache. i'm wondering if that trand lates into them thinking are you

a joke mlitarily as well >> that might be a leap too much. >> i don't know, you lose with so much debt. you lose political flexibility and military flexible. >> that is going back years. you had people saying we can't go to war withh syria. we don't have the fund to do that at this point. that was last spring, last august, for example. then secondly, you have china. they have enormous leverage over us because they're the number one foreign holder of ourdebt. we won't act potentially as we should, whethe militarily or even economically with china because we need them to by our debt. >> well, they have our debt. we have their money. it's a pretty even balance there. they do thought want to jeopardize their investment in the united states. it's a separate subject. >> is that a threat? do you act like, well, you need us more than we need you? so don't even try me? >> i don't think they wod take that too seriously. yes, i think it is a threat.

yes. >> okay. ben, what do you make of all this? >> i don't think admiral mullen has any training in economics whatsoever. that's one. he's trained in land and building acre carriers than commanding them, not in economics. two, there has never been an example in the entire history of mankind of a large civilization fa went under because of its debt be close excessive. three if the debt is excessive, one solution is to tax more, not to spend less, pour the military force of the united states while not as strong as they were a few years ago, are they equal the entire military forces of the rest of the world, and we spend as much in the u.s. with 5% of the population as the entire rest of the world. ask the al qaeda terrorists either blown up or their families blown up in yemen if they're not scared of us. we have more supersonic ships put together than the world together. >> besides that. here's what i'm saying, by the

way tim geithner has t background in economics. >> he's got th version you were qui quoting. >> let me make a counterpart. >> tim geithner is a cookie pushing diplomat. >> ben, 100 years ago, everything you laid out, the british laid it out as well. >> interests still thriving. >> business is thriving all over. you know what guys -- they have no more military power outside of the -- i'm saying, if we can't -- we're in trouble. >> that's because they have us. look. there is nobody, there is nobody out there in any serious way to challenge us militarily. in the future, china will. but for now, we are the dominant military power. we are buyg huge amount owes owe. >> my own view on this, a lot of you have -- not be close

disrespectful. exactly. but one of the things that keep coming up here, does it give you pause about the spending of money as mentioned in syria getting involved when you owe so much.? or you don't have any? >> i do not buy we didn't go to syria because of money. there is a lot of other reasons why we weren't in syria. >> i agree. >> i think that's a pretty lame, dopey statement. >> wait. in-house the dopey one or me making it? >> well, not you. >> whoever made that statement, that statement is insane. >> you don't think -- wren the tunnel driving, you don't think,er with not going back into space. >> there is a point wre you can't borrow anymore, where the reserve -- >> we're at that point. >> we are nowhere near. i am, however, very worried -- >> we are not close to that point. >> -- about giving more power to china, our largest foreign

holder of treasuries while, when the federal reserves, let me finish, is just beginning to pull back on the bond buying. the federal reserves last year and in the first 11 months of the year bought four times the amount of treasuries that chin did. so when the fed steps away frfr that, we need china to step in to keep interestates where they are. >> they are in the u.s. for a reason. i'm an ad advocate of much more debt. i don't like the fed buying. >> we will sound like patty hearst on this show. >> they are baking a bet on the u.s. >> that was my point. >> what was your point? >> that's all of our points, we all make that point. >> i did say that, that was my original point. >> we all made that point. they need us as much as we need them. >> you are missing what the gif of what admiral mullen was saying, our debt and the fact that we are paying each and

every year more interest or debt, it's interest close that is strangle close us. i think it's -- if that is a threat -- that does get to be a threat. >> we are not may paying more. >> it's a vol -- >> you are an economic genius. the cost of carrying the debt is going to be expensive and we're going to be up against a wall. >> you don't know. yes, i do. >> your you're saying that as a hypothesis. >> the interest rates show up then. the cost of carrying that debt is price -- yes or no? >> we pay it ourselves, the fedel holder holds the debt. they turn it over to the treasury. >> you are saying they can play games? >> you've identified the problem it's a ponzi scheme.

>> when the people lose confidence, when the global world loses confidence. >> that's what charles said at the outset. >> i this i that it's fool hardy -- it's fool hardy and fear sided to dismiss it if there was no chance in hell. >> you guys sound like the guys who said apparently there are some bar barians of the game. >> how many years to implode, rome, like 3,000 years? i don't know, how many years? >> well, the last ten, we are talking. all right. we will take a break. >> how many years? >> 450. >> we will take a break. did y of you see this? >> i imagine it's going to be fun, i'll embrace it. i'll have my teammates there. we'll enjoy the moment. it's a once in a lifetime experience for us. >> richard sherman all pro-football star is not talking about going tohe super bowl. he is talking about our wall-to-wall coverage of the state of the union address. at 8:00 p.m. it's the only place where you are going to get simultaneous

mark reaction as the president is spoking from the markets the world over. you are also going to hear from people who are worried about spending initiatives, compounding the debt issue we are talking about. you can go to a business, that worker gets the markets react close, you can also go to news network, hear the speech. so what are you doing watching anything else? wakeup. all right. up next, up next, forgive about this week's snowstorm and bundle up for the latest snow job on global warming. from the united nations, guess, guess, guess who they are blaming now. [ music playing ]

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i'll send you back to cavuto on business only on fox. . >> call it the billing chill. i'm not talking about the winter blast gripping most of the company. a report from the united nations saying rich nations are fuel close global warming. here's our argument. they are producing more gdz for a developing country and compounding their sins. charles payne, i think that means they are blaming pos spert. >> no, but they're blaming global prosperity, too. noon of those countries are getting to a position where they can afford this stuff. shame on america for selling it to them. oh, you want a harley-davidson in brazil? you want a whirlpool washer and dryer in argentina?

america shame on you for selling it to them. this is all a part of the whole thing, redistribution of money. that's all it is, another guilt trip. who will be guilty for making great products and selling them to people who want them around the world. >> i know it's a problem, you stantly came on yelling. >> i get that, god bless you. what are you going to do? >> i thoug the report s comical, china is the biggest emitter in the wor of greenhouse gases. they need to get near missions in check. china working with the u.s. trying to implement some vehicle emixes standard, but instead this report blames us for buying the products that are made in coin. they're blaming us for buying smartphones and clothing and the like. >> should we stop doing that? >> they are basically, go back to the 1940s and live there and don't use smartphones or the 1950s? >> as someone who walked to the studio from third avenue on this global warming.

i am in favor of global warping, is what it comes down to. >> i didn't walk to the studio. i will say this, most prosperous countries have a better handle on their environment than these, you know the third world countriewhere they pollute everything, where, you know, people live in squalor. by the way,emember the old sovietlock, people used to talk about back the '70s when the environmental move him was starting, how bad is e environment here? what was worse in the old soviet block or the united states? >> the c 02 emissions. >> i'm remembering the old wendy's commeials. swim wear. >> i thought all the ukrainian women were ugly. when i saw this person, wow. real quick, though, that's just another thing, these emerging nation's a saying we bought the to use fossil fuels, we got catch up. it's unfair for you to tell us not to. >> ben stein, what do you think of the u.n. getting involved in this? it's been a consistent push.

putting the onus particularly on rich nations. >> karlsson, this is consistent with their lifetime pattern ever since the u.s. lost control in the 19s, blaming the u.s. on everything. we produce more pollution per person because we produce more of everything per person, but china as my beautiful dig so aptly said is the world's number one culprit. nobody is yelping at them. all these development gunners are pollute close like crazy, nobody is yelping at them. it's just another case of blame the rich guy and blame america just because america because we are free and rich. they hate us because we are free and rich. they are joelous. >> they're like adam, right, adam? >> well, you know, in the spirit of ben, i'd say my esteamed intelligent friend here are all sticking their heads in the sand, what you all are trying to ignore are the fact, which the united statess. >> it's 10 degrees outside, wt are you talking act? >> it's one planet. we are all responsible for that one planet. you can deny all this stuff all

you want. that's what you are doing instead of having an intelligent conversation about it. >> wait, adam -- >> like in california. >> the way the reads, though, china is emitting these greenhouse gases but it's not coin's problem toeal with. it's our fault. that's why everybody needs to take responsibility for their own actions, period. >> of course,t's everyone's problem, i agree. >> except china. all right, another obamacare delay, this time for a rule telling companies effective benefits they can and cannot offer their employees. is that really the government's place? the forbes gang debating it at the top of the hour, but up next, did we just find out this guy acted like this buy the? after these guys downgraded our credit report? credit report? [ ma announcer ] the is no substitute for experience.

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all right. from downgrading to just plain old strong arming. according to a new court filing. former treasury secretary tim geithner warned standard & poor's, actually the company chairman, after the 2011 decision to downgrade the u.s. credit rating. now the former secretary is denying it. but back then on this show, we were at least wondering about it. >> is the government using the heavy-nded thug power -- >> yes! >> -- to strike back at the critics? >> yes. >> i'm curious about the timing. i'll leave it at that.

>> if they bring a knife you bring a gun. that is the chigo way. >> thank you. mild mannered tim geithner by day, but unlike clark kept when he gets out of the phone booth, he is mad. this is a hallmark of the administration. it's been all about intimidation. follow through on the intimidation. so it's interesting that this is coming out now. >> yeah. >> what is weird about it, s.p. was the only punished by the government for the ratings that was crap. moody's and fitch did the same thing but they did not downgrade the u.s. debt. >> this is like the gambinos and the bambanos killing each other off. i have zero sympathy for "svp & s&p. they deserved to be charged. it looked at the evidence. the evidence is in some ways worse in terms of the s&p

hands moody's and fitch in terms of the e-mail >> did all three degrade securitys? >> yes. >> did any of the three -- >> with all due respect, counselor, you go by facts and evidence and intent. the e-mails at s&p showed more intent than moody's and fitch. everybody i know in government downgrad complained to the rating agencies. tim geithner may be an idiot, but he is not a thug. >> i don't think he is an idiot. there was a vendetta here. had the other two been swept up, i would have said i can understand, fine. only s&p and with the downgrade. >> i disagreed with you on the premise before when we talked about this and i was wrong. based on this affidavit, he did threaten s&p. suddenly, smartly, so he wouldn't get in trole for it but he made a threat.

>> ben and adam. ben, what do you think? >> government officials are human. when they are threatened, they threaten back. they don't take a vow saying they will become government officials. standard practice. i believe it was tit-for-tat. >> okay. adam? >> i totally agree. it's not just government borrowers that complain. every issueer complains, corporations, too if they don't like the rating. >> he didn't threaten. >> he said you'll sleep with the shes. i'm kidding. i'm kidding. >> you should hear what i say. >> stick around. thanks to charlie and dagen. now how to play this so far in an ugly year. ♪

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going global, stocks arou the globe. charles? >> thelost momentum last year in the u.s. but i think toyota motors will get their act tother. >> adam, what do you think? >> i just am afraid of investing in the auto industry, but i don't dislike toyota. >> what do you like? >> the ishares frontier 100 e.t.f. deal. companies in really small economies. this is a risky one. >> all right, what do you think of that pick, ben? >> a darn good pick. i admire the fact that adam has been learning about indexes very, very, very well. i like e.w.j. japan is number one. as far as i'm concerned there is nobody who can beat the japanese when they get their mind set on it.

i like the e.w.j. japanese index funds. >> i like that. i like abi. more than just printing money. a real deal. >> gentlemen, thank you. cost of freedom the place for business. us. the era of big government is over. >> remember that 18 years ago. then president clinton declaring the big government was dead going in his second term. he said it as washington was in a massive reform of welfare. well now, with president obama getting ready for his second term "state of the union" address, welfare going the otheway. record one in five households are now on food stamps and a whopping 100 million americans are receiving some sort of food assistance. how did we get derailed from ending welfare as we know it? how do we get back on track? hi, everybody, i'm david asman. welcome to "forbes on fox." go in focus with steve