do today. have a good first day at work, mom! narrator: donate to goodwill. help provide job training in your community ♪ neil: welcome come everyone come i am neil cavuto. is t meet, or is anyone accountable? the house approving a debt ceiling hike. to prevent spending from going out of control. looking for the upbeat kind we will keep kicking the can down the road. and if you think accountability is a very bad in washington, it's something we are going to be taking up with pat buchanan and you should hear about corporate accountability and the lack of it from carl ichan. my special guest tonight.

>> when you alert a company to restate that you have taken, obviously in the old days what they have done is take the phone call, did they immediately go to war with you, what is the car like our motivation? >> i believe a lot of exceptions that corporate governance is dysfunctioal and it's extremely dangerous for our economy and our well-being. and so righ now they're the right guy for the fraternity house. neil: he is not done. the most celebrated individuals are having fits of what going on. the first of pat buchanan who is not feeling much better about what he sees is going on in

washingt. you know the score. we have a debt ceiling extension on trying to rein in the spending. a lot of people throwing up their arms. what about you? >> i think that what john boehner in houston today is decidedly are not going to have a tech in charge of this brigade. we were prepared to fight anyone prepared to put spending cuts on their when they would be rejected again and again. a lot of the house members and john boehner knew that we were going to capitulate. so why start the fight. neil: i could see the political logic and now you have a lot of tech.tea partiers and conservatives and the folks who made speaker john boehner and they are really getting annoyed. so what you tell them? >> i think that some of them are justifiably annoyed. think that speaker boehner went on the eastern shore and he indicated the willingness to go ahead with immigration reform and amnesty. they really rebelled against

him. but i cannot fault speaker boehner. he said let's march up that hill before and this time it will be the same outcome. so i'm not going to do it. so i think that they ought to give speaker boehner pass on this. i know some of them won't and i understand why they are but if i were speaker boehner i would've done the same thing. neil: i doubt that you would have done the same thing. there's nothing the remotely mainstream about you. [laughter neil: having said akamai talked to a prominent republican before the vote went down. and he said if we give it upat the fight, we have lost our soul and this is for the polical calculus. the gist of it was just that. but they do not know what they stand for outside of getting through the 2014 midterm elections hopefully with a bigger majority in the house. but that this harkens back to a party that will do anything to

sort of game control the lose its soul in the process. so if you make of that? >> i think that is exactly right. and i also think that red the congress of the united states itself and especially the house, they are in a terrible way historically. the president of the united states has been saying i'm going to ignore you. the supreme court has grabbed immigration and racial issues and social and cultural and moral issues and the federal reserve, we heard that, we heard janet yellen talk about the market today. epa runs environmental issues and what exactly -- they are even losing the wer of the purse. i thought the battle was better and more justified on the budget issue. because the house can say that we are the ones who decide what the money is going to be spent upon. and we're not going to spend that on this one item called obamacare. but now you have all of these spending and allocations in all these things have been done and i think that congress would come

off terribly if it said we're not going to pay for them afte having voted for them. neil: we know that you are right and the debt ceiling addresses this. so your quite right about this. but the devil in this case is in the perception and i would like to raise that issue and this comes with the same thing the last seven days. some sort of food assessments for one of three american. one out of five americans on food stamps. they are afraid of sounding heartless because they did. and so it goes unchecked. a chance with a debt doing to east, you know, keep track of it. and they don't believe what they tell the folks back home they

risk a firestorm which tried to down and they are saying that the one horse we are going to ride, i caught it earlier. and they think that they're going to ride secretariat to 830 lead victory in the derby and i don't want any other battles. and i can understand that. but is that kind of a bunch of crass politics? you know, rolling the dice. yes, it is. the one you mention secretariat. i will mention horses asses. but now we have republicans cling to the hope that voters will remember that they didn't shut the government down that they are behaving like adults when spending is still out of control and we have markets now that pounce upon this with the federal reserve and we have the

same investors who pounce on its nothing to cry conwell get into on whatever problem the federal government can feed them. it is a weird world. it is a very strange thing comi down. >> it's strange, but i will say that i think the countrhas forgotten about the shutdown of the government. and the attention span of the american people is limited in brief and i think that the republicaas realize that and look at how far down they are and they are saying why should we solve this out. but i agree with you. you get to a good question and what are you going to be when you get to the senate and house? >> i think you need to grab the pitchfork again. that's another battle for another day. [laughter] thank yovery much. >> thank you. neil: have a billion dollars.

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neil: going for broke. here and only here. telling me that the hundreds of millions of dollars that he is making from apple's dock is just a start. >> i'm not going anywhere, i'm not leaving. i have an old one sharon nor do i intend here. i think apple is one of the cheapest stocks around and i said that in tim cook and i agree on that. so i think that sometimes, you know, you make money when you look at things and you can get on the back of an envelope and make it simple. a no-brainer. netflix is one, just because one from apple is exactly one. it is extremely cheap and we

like the management there. neil: okay, so what you mea? >> we like the management. but in this case we do like it. for the last five years apple haspent over $18 billion in research and development. a lot of that has not been seen yet by the shareholders. these guys are smart guys. >> you know, they just bought

$14,000,000.2 weeks. and i'm not going to criticize this. neil: do think that they were doing him because you told them to do matter that was just what they were doing? >> i can't take credit for that. neil: have you talked to tim cook? >> i don't want to go in any conversation at this time with tim and myself. we get along pretty well. and i'm hoping, i have no intention of selling my apple stock. >> we just talked to the general that we think the companust tall that we think the company is extremely undervalued and he agrees or he agrees completely. the only difference is why don't you spend all the money and then they disagree t that. so i think that we are making

too much of this and i don't want this to be a major battle in point. they say the best way to win the war is not friday. neil: that raises a personal question and so when you alert a company to something that you have taken, honestly this comes up on twitter. they immediately go to war with you? what is this? >> i believe that corporate governance and i kind of that thing is dysfunctional and dangerous for our economy. including stronglyunderfunded and what's amazing to me is that you see this because of what we have done it if you bought some stock in 2000 comments, it's up over 2200%, meaning that we are

annualized if you bought that stock. and i'm putting that into it and putting that into the numbers are in and by the way, we with twa and we kept that company alive and i can't help it when you get a secular change in an industry. we are not going to win every one. but i'm saying that when i give you those numbers the bad ones are in there. >> in the pursuit of shareholder rights and games, it is encouraged with short-term thinking. and we better do this or we are going to be in a heap of trouble.

if that is not wise for the longer-term strategies. >> i have to agree and you can't say that. we go into companies and we encourage spending for the companies we control. in 19 say don't bother the guys because we don't want to encourage short-term thinking. motorola for that matter. they have 18 operating systems. you can say don't bother these guys because you can't make them think short-term. when the guy losing a fortune. a billion dollars and they did nothing about it.

and i have to thin about the good ones because i don't get involved with him so much. neil: how do they trigger your interest? >> you go and look at companies and you say that these are undervalued and there is an asset here in the asset is management. you will make a great deal of money. the sad part is that the big mutual funds are now starting to think at way. still far from getting involved. these index funds come you have to get them movingng because of you don't show how much better you can make these companies and how much more of. >> you know ebay. i'm not going to tell you or go into this and tell you that this is one we had before.

neil: where this battle going? >> you tell me. it battle is a battle. and that was just starting. i think that ebay is a perfect example of what i'm talking about. it is sort of interesting and look at them compared to amazon. paypal has them all. the paypal is in a position where you ha to worry about it. neil: these guys always come back and say it is all well and good for kroll to say that we would like to go through all o these terrible situations.

neil: you said they were doing it on cheap when i. >> they told everyone how terrible the company was and how awful it was. he was scaring everyone into selling it to him. and now he's telling everyone how great the company is and how wonderful it is area's view on what you think of the way the present obama is shepherding the economy? >> i will tell you that i have to say that i think obama could have done a lot more. i think he could've done a lot more than investing in going in and putting money out there. and i think that he stressed this. neil: you don't like health

care? >> i'm not oneof the guys that hate them. i think obama hadto do something like that but i don't think it's that bad but i'm no expert on it. but i don't think businesses should be a medical provider. so what is he is a medical provider. >> so these businesses are complaining and saying that this is in a cloud, what do you say? >> i can go in the company almost every company almost 30%, make that company, turn it around, which i've done over and ooer again. and it tells you one simple thing. many companies are terribly wrong and there's no

accountability. and here's how the little guys going to get her. i know it sounds corny as hell. i grew up on a street. only in this country. this great country. only here could i have done what i've done. i couldn't have done in any other society. >> what does that mean? >> where we are now, with the wealth of nations, they have a t of different economies that stale and ec the big over 300 yrs or 200 years and then something happens to the meritocracy. the rate that gets to the top and we don't have that right

now. they're the right guy for the fraternity house. not every one of them, but just some of them. neil: here's the thing coming he has become a billionaire and one of the richest people on the planet. in the city in which he resides, that also makes him a target. the target to be the new mayor of new york city. because bill de blasio wants to get more money from guys like carl. he is ♪ ♪ here we are, me and you

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neil: mayor bill de blasio has taken a target and has extracted more cash. carl ichan might surprise you. >> it doesn't bother me at all. i am not a fan of the mayor. but that's for different reasons. we do a lot in charter schools area when you get away from the bureaucracy in education, it is amazing what tse schools have accomplished and we treat them like business on.

down the road the same thing, that is what we should have heard more charter schools. and it's a little bit like corporate america. how can you hate change the one in corporate governance when you see the result? and you know, i've dealt with unions and let's just look at the problems here. >> the thing that they would be open to change? >> i don't know. neil: that he has push to raise

the taxes and all that? >> i know my friends are going to hate me, but there is a huge divide between the rich and the poor. i'm talking about the guy with 10 million or 20 million. and saying that he could afford something. >> you gave an interview years back when people were trying to gauge where you stood politically. and so no matter what happens,

in the election, and there is a middle-class guys and the republicans are saying that we have to pay back e deficit and we have to take docto entitlements and we have to worry about the rich guy because he's good for this. like in the middle ages. they would say okay, it's good for you, guard watched. [laughter] >> so you do think that this gap is real and that the rich should do more? >> yes. but it is not so much that they should do more. i really do believe in the meritocracy. neil: what does that mean? >> is somebody really tasteless and invest money, what the heck. you should get the fruits of that. and they say that i'm greedy and i try to make money, all that is going back to society for the

most part. my son has done great. go and how did you break that out at ahanksgiving meal? to they always have that. my kids are going to be well well-off and my phone has already made a great deal by buying netflix. neil: you've been very generous and charitable. what do you think of mark zuckerberg? is he giving a lot of money away? you see all of the this included. >> what i'm saying is that in to

change this rephensible system that we have, we will have some of these lawyers and what is going to happen is that if you have the you keep invading it and say that we don't like this which is nonsense. and the short-term is part of this. neil: of the pension funds are part of this. here's what we understand. we are getting calls and we are coming around to some of these mutual funds. you know? you could say that, but we can't.

>> i don't know what this rate means. does it mean that we te money from companies? made a fortune for shareholders and built him up. and we go right through the list. neil: 50 years from now, there is the effect of the american capitalism. jan crawl i can neil: on whose stock is going to

recommend? we will have

neil: nevermind whether carl ichan kicks it to the curb. charlie gasparino is with us.

scott martin and jerry leiby also joining us. >> you know, he is not a guy that it is in and out for every stock. some stocks he is and other times he is them. and he took on a bully, someone he considered a bully. and the stock has been up and not down. andthey increase this buyback program not because the stock was being considered this way. because he's going to be advocating f it. and they also smell blood in the water and that was a cheap stock price in ash on the sidelines.

>> he is still hanging onto this and he will continue to. t it is way undervalued now. >> and i won't say anything. >> is keeping score and the guy is a motivator. and they said it we have to get off of our teachers. and i don't think steve jobs. there is carl ichan and hawaii is talking to carl ichan. and this is a little worried about tim cook were there he is

doing enough for that and you're going to buy back some stock. >> everyone sort of weights and word gets out on this case now. and the stock has a jump. where do you think he sets his sights now. >> there a lot of companies out there that are undervalued and it was all the way down and in the maintain the other technology is have caught up to apple and their sales are starting to go and you have $160 billion in cah.

are there other stocks out there like that? and i would say that this sort of has been lifted on a lot of hot air and a lot of nicotine fits in providing this money. >> what he has done is understand how the social media works. and it sends the stock price is up. and i think now is theime for him to look at this position and wait for the next part of that.

and not knowing when he is going to bail out. >> i heard from a lot of people. and he does bring fear. the stock market is trading right now and that is really be a part of this. although we do have janet in there.

and he is the only guy with the guts and why was he the only one that didn't? >> what's interesting is the good markets and bad. >> there are no done deal is here. >> he is a very condescending and dismissive view of congress. and tensions in funds that go along for the ride. and he says that i have to g

past all of these guys. >> what's great about it is that he does know how to use social media to get those ends. and a lot of it he talks about. and a lot of it is about corporate governance. and i was short that when he got into it. and i remember this specifically. and i don't think that technology is interesting. apple has a lot to do and lose here. neil: you could be right.

neil: he keeps repeating, no-brainer. and anyway, does that mean or is getting the white house to spell out what is working with this health care law, who better to gauge how much they are screwing this up in a guy like this? the orthodontist who's taking the most powerful man on the

neil: here is the good news with what republicans are calling him on monstrosity. the president doing this feature for another year. here's the bad news, that delay is probably against the law. but in fact he is suing the president to make his point. so your point is that the president is can't tamper with this already with the established law? you need congress to do that? >> to get for having me back on

the show. that is correct. the president seems to have a complicated relationship with the truth. what he doesn't get is that article one says that only congress can make or change a law and the president has an affirmative duty. and including reserving in protecting and defending the constution and helps them to do that. neil: people come back and say whether it was security or lyndon johnson with medicare, they change the provisions in the requirements and this is nothing new. >> i would say that it's not just the number of executive orders but the size and scope and i think he has a executive order metastasizing.

and honestly -- isn't he doubled down on his mistake of waving us. and he canceled a lot as a congress of one. so let's face the reality that are like it official have earned the right to have a voice in the law. >> he was planning for this at the beginning of the year and then out of the blue he would spend a lot of money preparing for the administrative situation and everything they plan for when down. so that is really the genesis of this. >> at the lava lmp. >> you were prepari for it and

the president pulled the r out from under you. i think the president should lead by example and respect the law themselves. and he often says let me be clear. do you have the right to change the line he has shied away from this light. neil: i think john boehn just neil: i think john boehn just got ted cruz upset.

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raise the debt ceiling without fundamental structural reform. >> but that never happens. >> or again. senator cruz wanted a attachment with those provisos but after passing the debt ceiling it was as if the speaker said i will risk taking of the tea party i will do it. hehe did. >> no surprise. i was on your show over three years ago and put beyond the spot what was about to become speaker john boehner that he would never deliver that i was just obvious he would not lead republicans in the house he has demonstrated his lack of leadership once again. lou: but pat buchanan said at the top that it is hard to get a bigger rhetorically

in the house versus the senate the media would play republicans and disrupt that momentum. what say you? rebecca i say the only thing they care about is their own political power. 66% of the american people say the federal government is still a big band out of control. 77 percent of americans said don't raise the debt ceiling you doesn't represent the tea party or conservatives, who does he represent? the ruling class in washington d.c. whose economic confidence is that the all-time high while the country suffers. >> but i am strong of the party is strong enough to weather any assault a and where else will they go? >> it is calculation he

has made over and over. we have been on the losing end ever since john baker took over as speaker of the house. we have raised that debt ceiling 42 times there is no ceiling it is the open terrace th will keep raising it and the speaker profits when they raise it. >> what about those numbers that came to the house made himself speaker now he spends -- spits on them. >> because that is what we expected a andros surprised. but i don't think he will be speaker much wonder there is rumblings of a leadership coup i think there is time. there needed to be negotiations all he did was capitulate he is an expert. >> you always speak your

mind. tomorrow we will get into what mark was raising also with carl icahn and accountability of corporate tomorrow. ♪ ♪ kennedy: they are huge, they know far better than you how to run your life. we are beholdens to wims of government. whether it is a state dinner or debt ceiling or spy agency that putting cold car antics to shame. they are different from us, they think they are better than us, their reach knows no bounds, no wander allies in far left, and fed up right have aligned to declare this, the day we fight back, whether it is signing on-line petition, or a discussi about what is most important it is time ta take back, you are not better government, but you are on note us from all sides, this is "the independents".