messages and posts and tweets are read here free copies of my new bok, "upheaval." keep the comments coming, we >> i go to the university of california irvine, >> ouisiana state university. >> virginia tech. >> guatemala. >> university of south dakota. >> university of -- [inaudible] john: a special editon, 1500 colleg students from all over the world gathered here to debate what makes for a free society. these are our futre leader learningg about liberty. students usually don't learn about thatn school. tonight, what you ought to know about economic freedom, free speech, prsonal responsibility, drugs, privacy, and america's constitution.

stossel u, tha's our show, tonight. ♪ [cheers and applause] and now, john stossel. [cheers and applause] john: thank you, you students are unusual. you have a special interest in liberty. moss people don't which makes me wonr, how many of you ever discuss liberty on your campuses? how many of your professors discuss it? [laughter] how many of them discuss social justice? many more. i not surprised given the love for big government on big mpuses. most ofyour professors probably don't know muc about basic economics, which is why e titled this show "stossel university," and our professors

are ab biand jhn, here to tell students about what they should learn about economics. you can't do it all. first thing >> first thing to learn is that intentions are not esults. judge polics by results and not stated intentions. second, people in the public sector are just as self-interested and no more enlightened thanpeople in the private sector. john: nice or vicious as everybody else. >> absolutely. john: they are doing the public good. they are different. >> that'swhat they say. john: other ideas are taught. higher taxes encourage work. carl smith, who teaches economics at the university of north north carolina says taxes make me poorer and when people are poorer, they work more for the things they want, therefore taxes should make me work harder. >> when you x something, you get less of it. if you tax work, there's less of it. same for invtment in business. this is why in countries with high taxes like te united states, you see slow growth and

slow job creation. john: can you believe economic professors teh this stuff? >> i wonder if professor smith would double his teaching load if unc chopped the salary in half. i bet not. [laughter] john: there's a credit crisis, regulate the banks. you testified that dodd-frank is the cure. >> dodd-frank was passed in response to the financial crriss to protect consumers, but what we are seeing in practice is that consumers are having less access to credit and savings, and bank fees at record highs, and 3 million people shut out of the banking system. it's a law of unintended consequences. john: as american we should buy america. >> buying from foreign, we get goods at lower prices you want access to the lowest priced goods, but when americans buy from foreigners we send that money abroad, money comes back to america as demand for american exports or investment

in america. it's normally not seen y the people who don't know economics, but it's real, and it helps america. john: more patriotic if i buy erican stuff. >> no, o. when you buy ameican stuff for that sake, that means you are not employing resources asthey shoulde employed. there's no reason you shouldn't choose the best deal you can find. that's patriotic. john: income inequality. the theme of the day, and it is gross that some people have so much more than others, shouldn't government try to even it out? >> government alread does to a large extent so the top 20% of earners pay 70% of taxes. we have a huge social safety net. what's concerning to me is not income inequality, but we have millio of people trapped in poverty from a broken welfare instigate, broken education system. john: a gallop pole finds 78% of people your age suort raising the minimum wage. most of the public does, more

people your age o. how many agree we should raise the minimum wage? [laughter] all riht. well, you clear lir are libertarians. >> if you raise th minimum wage, you raise cost to employers of employing low skilled workers. when you raise the cost, you get less of it simple as that. john: i want to hear from the students. what qestions do you have for abby and john? take it away. >> oay, hi, i'm lauren clark from arizona state university. i'm currently studying journalism, so it's my dream to take over your show ne day. john: please do. [laughter] >> my question to you guys is i'm also very interested in economics. why is it that in the university sector, there's so many progressive people studying economics when, to me, it's ju reasonable sense? >> you know, i wish i hada good answer to the question. i don't understand why people who don't get economics don't get it. it's like they are blind to reality and the fact that

gravity is operational. >> but i aso think they are not exposed to it. the majority of high school students are not exposed to it or college students. can't be guilty for something you don't know. >> i'm sky lar, and i study economics at the university of albany, and my question to you guys is that when talking about income inequality, how do you find the ost effective way to relay to people it's government responsible for creating the disparity in the first place. [applause] >> what, what, what? government? some people are smarter than others, some have a silver spoon. >> look, there's certainly crony capitalism, but i don't doubt that in markets, some people prosper more income-wise. what i like to point out is that one of the great bennefits of free market is while it increases from time to time, income inquality, it decreases consumption inequality. rich ppeople do not consume much

more than poor pple today. the difference between what poor people and rich people consume is shrinking ever, ever -- they are getting closer. john: you brought a catalog ang to make a pint? >> yeah. the typical american worker then had to work 30 hours to buy this vacuum, and today, they only work six hos to buy a bette one. the poor are gettiing richer n america because of the innovative capitalism. [applause] > i study history at eastern kentucky university, and i just wanted to see what your personal opinion ofbitcoi was. >> i'm all in favor of anything that compes with monopoly central banks. [cheers and applause]

i hope it succeeds. john: have you bought some? >> i have not. [laughter] john: have yo? i have. >> i'm dan, i go to community college and obamacare's first state of massachusetts, and i wonder if you guys believe there's, like, a better alternative to social spending such as food stamps andsocial security? >> the milton freed mapp ad an idea, a negate income tax, basically, eveverybody has a guaranteed level of income, and it wouldn't have the same distortions the current welfare system hasif this discourages work or marriage, for instance, and this level would be set low enough that people don't grow dependent on it. [applause] >> i'm michael ashley, student at the university of delts. what dyou think is 5 good outline or effective measure of creating a small government that stays small? >> one idea proposed to keep

governme saller is to link federal spending as a percentage of gdp with an ctual rule, and congressman are held responsible if they want to incrse spending abov historical norms. that's a good starting lace. >> another idea is to rpeal five rules and pass one. [laughter] >> my name is ken wlliams, political science student at ohio university. in obamacare, with -- how -- where there's a distrust theme for the insurance companies because they want to make a profit, that the solution to that is to andate the insurance companies. >> where the idea comes from, i don't know, it's a dumb idea. [laughter] [applause] insurance companies have inctives to provide the right mix of coverage at competite

premiums, and obamacare mandates this and that coveage, that interferes with rivate choices. private choices that give rise to bettr policies in absence mandates. john: tha you, out of time for questions for this segment. thank you abby and ohn, and if you want to keep the conversation going, here's the twitter has tag, isflc. i don't know how you remember that, but stands for international students for liberty conference, which is where we are. let people know what you tink. coming up, what do you know about america's founding doments? i'll give you and or student audience a quiz. [cheers and applause]

snot ♪ [cheers and applause] %-okay, college students, a quik pop quiz. in the contitution and declaration of independence, and here it is together, how many times is the word "democracy" used? fewer than five times or five or more times. who says five or more times

here? who says fewer? all right. well, you guys are educated. i didn't know this. it never mentioned the word democracyoyou peope should read this. it's not long. our constitution is shorter than the constitution from most other countries. do you want one of thee? getit from the cato institute, cato.org on the web, they charge you five buks for them, and we give them ut free. question two, the constitutiin was prepared in secret behind closed doors guarded by centuries. is that true? who thinks it's tre? this is true. tlearn more, we turn to

someone who knows, tim, author of the conscious of the constitution. you went to a college where there was contempt for this. some white men, some save holderswhy should this be so important today? >> well, the constitution of the united states is a promise abou how government power will be used, and it's a promise that was left to us by a generation who lived under tyrannical government and needed a frame work to preerve the blessings @% liberty for posterity, and we have to be gratel for that. john: but it's not relevant today. >> it's true, but the constitution's promise has been broken time and time again by our overnment, but we are very fortunate we can at least point to it and say this is what the frame work of our government was designed to do. secure the blessings of liberty.

that's the most important part? >> thars right. liberty is a blessing. it does not say the same thing about democracy or government in general. the constution was written to protect liberty against government whether it be a democratic dporm of government or any other kind of government. john: but it also says ensure domestic tranquility. that could be speech codes, decency codes. it says promote the general welfare, obamacare, take care of people. >> but that's only within the frame work of the liberty which the eclaration says we are all born entitledto. the most important part of the constitution is its limitations, limitations on government. look at rticle 1 section 1, first sentence says "all legislative powers herein granted are vested in congress." peple skip that tinking congress has all power to do whatever is a good idea. that's no what the constitution says, but says al powers listed

in the constitution are begin to the congress. if it's not inthe constitution, congress does not have the power to do that. john: but they do it all the time. >> that's true, they do unfortunately, the elected officials have a huge incentive to do what they think is popular. john: and the supreme court, for the mosost part, has not symptommed them. >> the supreme court goes with joust overreaching, especially in the obamacare case. what happeneas the supreme court said, well,the government can't force people to buy things. now, that was, itself, actually a huge victory for individual freedom. can you imagine what would have happened if it came out the other way, if congress suddenly had the power to force us to bu whatever politicians think we should have? the court said then, well, but we're still going o uphold obama care because it's not the role of the courts to protect people from the political choices, and that's faalse. iti the role of the courts to enforce the constitution, which is a limit on political choices.

john: any supreme court cases -- [applause] that you're happy with? >> there are. john: pick two. >> when i fell in love with the cotitution in ninth grade and learned of the court's decision, tinker versus des moines school district, black arm bands protestg the vietnam war, and their teachers said not to do this, and they sued and said we have a frst amendment right to do this, and th supreme court ruled in teir favor saying indidual rights do not stop at the schoolhouse gat when i read that decision,i made my parents drive me to the county law library t photo copy the decision, the days befor e inrnet, and i felt in tat decision, i felt the constitution -- john: you were an odd kid. >> i was a nerd. can you imagine? [laughter] i felt, when reading that discussion, i felt the constitution reach out and touch me and protect me and sa my rightsouldn't be taken away by

people telling me what to do. [applause] john: you also mention lawrence versus texas. >> a supreme court case from a ten years ago now, i think, in which the supreme court said the vernment does not have the right to tell us who we ca sleep with. there was a texas lw that made it illegal fo two adults of the sa se to go to bed together in the privacy of thei own homes, and the supreme court rightly said that's obscene in a free country, and that is w i love the constitution because there are moments like that when really helpls minorities and individuals who can't expect the legislative process to respect their rights, nevertheless have a shield in the form of the supreme court saying, no, this line is something that congress and the states cannot pass. [applause] john: questions for tim? >> i graduated from monthclaire state university in new jersey.

my question is, if the constitution is the rule of law, the rulings for the government, and the government administers and enforces its own rules, how do we prevent them from eaking their own rules? >> well, that's a very good question. [applause] it's one that the founding fathe fought a lot about. inhe federalist papers, james madison says in creating a government to protect people, it has to protect them from the government itself. now, patck henr said at the ratification conention, no, no, it will not wonk, congress will do terrile things, madison said, have we then no virtue among us because if we have none, we are in a wretched position, no checks and balances protect us then. only the constitution has the meaning that we ve it when we honor the promise, so, es, the goverment has fallen away and ignored ht promiseon many occasions, but it's there for us to enforce as we go forward. [applause]

>> i studied communications, and my question for you is what do you think is the bst method to reverse the policies created by the surveillance tate? >> i think the best method to reverse policies is to elect new officials, but the best way to ensure constitutional liberty is secured is to enforce the constitution meaning sue, sue, sue, and i mean that sot f sell officially becau my profession is i sue the government fo a living. it's -- [cheers and applause] [laughter] it's the greatest job in the world. it's the greatest job in the world, and i do it for free. i don't charge my clients, and when you go to court and make your argument, and youinsist, the constitution says this now it's up to you, judge, or you, court f appeals, oh you, u.s. supreme court, to follow what's written there. john: thank you, students, thank

you, tim, and later in the show, begin that most of your fellow students are left wingers, we'll have a debate about the best way to argue with them, but next, this art exhibit, this picture of it, the sculpture of a sleepwalking man in his underwear is upsetting students at one college, and hey demand it be removed. should it be? that's when we come back. that's when we come back. [cheers and applause] all stations come over to mission a for a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. rify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. ree, two, one.

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[laughs] i can't seem to save anything. i got a pizza for a todd? hey, can somebody spot me? announcer: when it comes to financial stability, don't get left behind. get tools and tips for sang at feedthepig.org. dhp john: your students should be careful what you say at college. you might get in trouble if you say the wrong thing, if you offend people. report is with the foundation for individual rights and education, fire they call themselves, and so why do students need fire? in college, students say all kinds of stuff. >> that's right.

students are saying all kinds of stuff, but on campuses across the country,hey are taking a risk by saying things. it's gotten so bad that students are actually goin so far as t censor themselves or demand that things on their campus be censored because theymight make them offended or uncomfortable. john: fire says 59% of higher education institutions hve policies that infringe on our first amendment rights. >> well, a few years ago, it as 7 a%. it's gotten better, but, unfortunately, we see these in policies all across the campus. john: you list the wors colleges for free speech, state university of new york, harvard, univsity of alabama. what did they do? >> wel, this is a ridiculus case. we had a student, a journalm student writing a story for the school paper and hockey coaches, saying u how do you find your relations with the hockey coach to be, and don't wrry, not everything you say has to be

compliment ri, and one forwarded that back to the administration and they actually got this student in trouble for calling t threats, and something they said on chasm pus, and not everything has to be positive. john: why i harvard number two? >> read the e-mails of 16 of the residentdans because they were trying to fgure out who was leaking information about a cheating scandal at harvard. john: at brown university, ray kellywas prevented from speaking. >> you let him speak and make committee as part of the question, answered part of the program. >> top suppressing people. [cheers and alaus >>eporter: he eventually gave up and left the auditorium, and this happenedded to me at brown. they pulled out my microphone cord. this is a liberal arts institution. they ar supposed to hear all sides. well, this happens because w

train students k-12 and into college to believe that certain views are so abhor rid they can want be spoken. had to do with stop and frisk policies, and he came to give a speech what he knew would be a hostile audience and agreed to take questions, but that was not good enough, and so these organized heck leer for 27 minutes disresistented the speech. he only gota few word out befo it went on, and for 27 minus, he gave up and left. that is e very opposite of the environment we're pposed to have on colege campuses. they were going to have a q&a session, and i nay octobered, they had the chance to prove him wrong, but they squandered that end dpaijing in tht censorship. john: wt's the deal with the sleepwalker statue? >> imposing a since of empathy, vulnerable, and that's not how

the students have seen it. they see it as a threatening image. it's an all-women's school, and say it might trigger memories of sexual assault who see it because it's a man who is not fully dressed. other people objected that they think it's whiteness and maleness are a real imposition on campus and called it discomforting. upjohn playing the role of the university, we want people to learn, to be comfortable. if it's an ugly climate, you're a big fat parasite lawyer and i'm screaming at you, how can people learn? shouldn't ere be acivilized public square, especially in a university? >> well, civility is an important value,t it's not near as important as fredom, and the fact is, if we're training students, an elite liberal arts college, so afraid of a statue they ae

uncomfortable to walk around campus, go to class, and learn, something is wrong wit our leve of tolerance for the different view you're going to see, you know, white men, maybe in their underwear sometime in your life. you can't let that throw off your entire lifestyle. john: thank you, robert. [cheers and applause] coming up, we'll talk drugs and privacy, but next, are you students ripped off by your college? i think many of you are. that's next. [applause] friday night, buddy. you are gonna need a wingman. and with my cash back, you are money. forget him. my airline miles will take your game worldwide. what i'm really looking for is -- i got two words for you -- re-wards. ♪ there's got to be better cards than ts.

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i trade like me. that's w i'm with scottre. announcer: ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-directed services by j.d. power and associates. ♪ john: welcome back to a special edition of the show from the students for liberty conference in wasngton, d.c.. now, i assume when you stuents graduate, you'd like to earn money, get a job, but will you? maybe your college is just wasting your time and your money. kmele foster says you need to takeesponsibility. foster is cohost of the new fox business rogram "the indents," and you started in college. >> i started a small telecommunications consulting firm, spent ten years doing that. i did not, at the time, drop out of school. i went about one or two classes at a time, but i didn't borrow a

bunch of money to finance my education. i went on from there to start two other small companies, one in new media firm that does film production and another, a retail and anufacturing company that makes camera accessories. john: just wanted to do it? >> i just wanted to do it. it's increasingly true your college degree does not repare you for the world we encounter. we have a significant unemployment problem right now, and a great deal of 245 has to do with the sort of policies we pursue as a country, but some of it is structural. there are people graduating from college who are getting liberal arts degrees and don't have the sort of skills necessary to actually compete in the job market. they are not entrepreneurial enough, and it's just the rt of thing that's not really being taught at most universities. john: trying to be an entrepreneur, i find it's something that makes people understand the benefits of limited government. i don't know why you people became libertarians.

i assume you didn't all start businesses, but people say, i had no idea this iwhat business people have to go through. >> interestingly, that's one of the things that make me most optimistic about the future is that people have a -- a pretty warm feeling about entrepreneurs in general, and more and more people feel they can be entrepreneurs. there's an increasingly free agent culture, and there's something wonderful that happens when more people have to make payroll, and when more people find themselves dealing with government burearacy in the most ordinary and regular ways, whether it's running your paoll and having to deal with the various tax agencs you have to get records and numbers from, and it's doing everything exactly the same way for a number of years, and then finding out something was wrong, and having someone come into your office to scre around with you for the space of two and a half months. it's wasting 33% of yur time in a fairly small company with ten employees to comply with various

burdensome regulations. joh we need more people to start businesses to ake up? >> absolutely, absolutely. john june and yet colleges teach people, you list the fun courses. princeton has a course in getting dressed. >> yeah. [laughter] because no one at princeton could masterthat on their own. just couldn't happen. john: university of caliornia san diego, god, sex, chocolate, desire, and the spiritual pat. >> sounds delicious and wonderful. [laughter] university o texas invented languas, clingon and beyond. it's amazing. what is college? it is folks paying 20-50,000 a year for an extrafour our more years of adolescence. that's fine. it's nice. it's a bad dea to sub subsidizet with tack payer dollars and a

bad idea to take out lopes in order to do that. john: thank you kmele foster of "the ndependents," coming up, what school doesn't teach you about personal freedom, like, should i be allowed to open this little case and do this? [cheers and applause] [ tires screech ] [ car alarm chirps ] ♪ [ male announcer ] we don't juscertify our pre-owned vehics. we inspect, analyze, and recondition each one, until it's nothing short of a genuine certifd pre-owned mercedesenz for the next new owr. [ car arm chirps ] hurry in to the mercedes-benz cerfied pre-owned sales event. visit today for exceptional offers. ♪

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john: welcome back to "stossel l u," and this is about perm liberty. it's limited to two top i ttinks. the nsa creepily spying on us and illegal drugs.

how many of you have never used an illegal drug? including alcohol when you were not yet 21? [laughter] some of you. all right. the -- clearly a minority. the editor of my avorite magazine says once your an adult all substances should be legal. she's from "reason" magazine. [cheers andpplause] all drugs, every single one? crack, meth? >> i think legal drugs are safer drugs, and that's the best place o start with. your e-cigarettehat you coolly smokedearlier. john: i try. >> this is a safer product than a regular cigarette. that's because someboy figured out how to make money selling us drugs that we want to consume the people who make money on drug right now are people markets, and i'd rather see it

all out in the light o day. john: this is realy just the substitute nicotine delivery system, no bad smell. it's just vapor. >> exposes a weird puritanal element on the war on drugs. it's literally just, oh, you like that chemical in thee that makes you feel good? we don't want you to have it. john: i think they are also sang iwe allow this, this sends the message that smoking cigarettes is okay. >> right, well, i mean, i think ideally we find ourselves in a world where the message sent is using drugs, choosing what you want to put in your own body is your own business, but that we should hopefully let companies provide safer alternatives, provide more reliable alternatives to the black market drugs out there. john: all right. this is not what most of the time we're talking about when we talk about illegal drugs. we're talking about the nastier ones like meth that really hurt people, lots of people, and well-meaninged authoritarians

say we can redue th amount if we make it illegal. >> and that's worked out so well so far. [laughter] john: they argue more of it. [applause] >> like this, you know, cocaine inventingmachines, is it the american way? i get than an alarming concepp to people, but if you look at the huge damage that the war on drugs has done, the disproportioned damage to black communities, students' lives ruined, the costs are huge, and it's nonot working. heroin is cheaper now than it was 30 years ago. john: nsa pying. when the nsa spying story first broke, i upset libertarians by saying i was not that pset. i figured that myenemies already had all the information. i mean, my neighbor was sealing my e-mail of the year, google, facebook had the information, and i posted a list of a hundred things that government does that upset me more than data minig, like our 17 trillion dollar

de, corporate bailouts, rules against school choice. i don't say all those hundred things are as important as nsa spying or as potentially dangers. it's just that i can understand the government's reason for wanting to do it. people want to kill us. you know, tas true -- that's true, up to a point. way we seize more and more information is comin out about w incredibly offensive the data mining is, we are seeing not a lot of evidence that it works. i mean, this 1 the old saw. if you sacrifice liberty for secucurity, you get neither, and that's where we are right now. [cheers and applause] what i say --i love it when google takes my data. they can have all my data. if i could give my brain to google, i would, because they give me something i want in exchange. i get ads that are for procts i want to buy. john: personal safety.

>> gives me services, but the nsa says i give you personal safety, or i might put you in jail; rig? thisis kind of the backst. going the can't put me in jail. the nsa can. john: et me poll the audience, who agrees withher? [cheers and applause] who agree with me? very few. i'm losing this. all right. your turn, students. >> i'm michael line, doing political philosophy at the university of arizona. i'm self-diagnosed with bipolar disorder and a host of medicines i take with a host of side effects, and i don't think it's anybody businesses how a drug interacts with my body, and i don't think it's beneficial to bring that to the light and so peoe understand sort of what drugs do for whom and how they interagent with what. it's my business. not anybodyelse's. to me, it eems srt of counter indivialistic to propose that, i want to legalize drugs such

that the entire body public can understand them when it's frankly non of their business in the first place. that's my question to you, is how do you think that's cohe'si with the individualism? >> i think individualists and libertarians should always favor letting knowledge be free. think mmre information is goo for individuals to make their own choices. [applause] >> i'm ryan. i'm a feshman at the op line high school, m virtual aademy. how do wedeal with the liberal bias in high school? there's a lot of it. i've dealt with it quite recently learning about franklin d. roosevelt, and it praises him like he's some sort of god, and he's not. he ruins evething.

[cheers and applause] how do we deal with that? how do we communicate liberty and real freedom in that into high school? >> the first part of the question answered the second. if you go to an onine high school, yo opted out of the system, so congratulations. [chers and applause] >> i'm eliabeth francis, senior at kansas state university. what are some things that maybe audiences back home can take to help advance personal liberty and work towards changing public policy? >> well, there's actually a great campaign out there that's just asking people who have smoked wed to be open about it. scessful people. i think that's a great place to start. you know, i have a job at a bank. i smoked weed. [applause] i have a kid. iked weed. [applause] john: thank you. coming up, most of you students attend liberal colleges.

you have to deal with studts and professors wh love big government. how might youducate them? a debate on that next. [applause] [ male annouer ] whether it takes 200,000 parts, ♪ 800,0 hours of supercomputing time, 3 million lines of code, 40,000 sets of eyes, or a million sleepless nights. whether it's building the world's most advanced satellite, the space ation, or the next leap in unmanned systems.

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jjhn: if you learn anything at stossel u, he best type of government is limited government. these students understand that. why don't other pople get it? how can we convince them?

kathy and julie say hey know how. julie has a youtube channel called token libertarian girl. kathy is editor of a blog called sex and the state. which is a cool titl [laughter] kathy, you say to open other people's minds, libertarians should check their privilege. what does that mean? >> unfortunately, libertarianism is overwhelmingly domined by straight, middle income, well-educated white men, nd so -- john: the overclass. >> right. how can we make libertarianism appealing to other people because the demographic is decreasing as a percentage of the population, get people not hostile to the ideas. there are certain things you can't know on te basis of who you are. in order to understand, for instance, discrimination, for me, men is like, i have to check my female priefprivilege and listen to the experiences.

john: talk about things like making birth control available over the counter? >> absolutely. john: for blacks? end the drug war, allowing school choice, his hispanics, e-verify, needing permission from a government data bae forever hring anybody. >> a sty from my own personal life, i was a prohibitionist because it never occurred to me thatolice used drug laws to gather arms squad teams and burst down doors and carry people off to prison and disproportionally people who do not look like me. john: seems like a reasonable argument to me, jule, and you don't buy it? >> well, for m the main component of libetarianism is individualism. maximize freedom for every individual. what i've noticed with the privileged crowd is it's very devicive, negative, and it's class warfare and jealousy. john jun this "check your privige" expression is a leftist college expression.

[applause] >> i don't like the term "check your privilege" because i rea youtube comment and say the request check your privilege," but never say, oh, you make a good point, i'll check my privilege. people get so defensive over it, and rightfully so. they ake a predetermined judgment about the person. it's downright rude. [applause] john: it's not nice to divide people in categories we are all individuals. absolutely. unfortunatelily, thereality is that racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia xists. without acknowledging real inhibitors to individual lberty for certain identities, we are hampered in the ability to truly, asin my experience, advocate for thm effectively.

[cheers and applause] john: i look here, i see disproprtional l white men in ties, even bow ties. they look like the over class. i would think it's a turnoff. >> there's a lot of white men here. it has more to doowith ibertarianism being nedy more than anything else to be honest with you. i'm a nerd myself, so i cn say that. john: all right. this is all food for thought. audience, i want to ask, whose argument is better? who is more persuasive? let's have a vote. who sides with julie, not argue by sex, race, and ethnic groups? [cheers and applause] john: who sides with kathy and says we should? [cheers and applause] john: fewer hantsdz, more noise. both good points. thank you, kathy, joule le, and thank you to all of you for attending "stossel u," that's

our show, and thank you at home for watching. [cheers and applause] ♪ see you next week. jeff: jeff flock here. >> this week on across america we go kayaking and fishing with one of the wealthiest and most successful women in america. >> we take an insideook at america's most storied office furnituremaker. what happens when a 300 pound personits on a miller chair for three years? this machine is finding out. we unveile the nest and fanciest outlet mall in america and get the wisdom of the visionary who started building it in the worst recession in hi