for watching. [cheers and applause] ♪ could split the country in two. >> keep it here for more coverage in ukraine. join us after the show now. e you tomorrow. >> here we go again. with our debt still going off the charts. a push to spend even more of your tax dollars and back on. president obama calling for $56 billion in new spending on everything from more green initiatives to new manufacturing institutes. this on the heels of some republicans helping to hike the debt limit. so what part of we are broke doesn't shington understand? hi, everyone, this is "bulls an bears." i' brenda tner. the bulls.

welcome to everybody. john, can we affo more spending? >> no, we can. we got to shut this down at some point. look, earn earnst and bulls came t, the president and republicans both debunked it, said they didn't like it. they haven't seen it yet. they don't want to cut spending or entileletments. we are going at a rate national bt in 2000. we're at 10 trillion if 2008. we are going to doublet again by 2016. we are doubleing our debt every eight years and there is no entitlement reform in place. we all got fre pizza. look, if rates go back up to 5, 6%, we are? significant trouble. we have gotto reign this in at some point. >> check. $17 trillion in debt. can we ford to spend on top of that? >> look. the american people want results and do we have a de problem?

absolutely. the problem is not today. it's kind of to john's point. we've had a problem all along. we had a medicare part d or unfunded war. the congress is writing connection, we ain't had no money in the bank. i'll be if i will let them bankrupt the american worker on this back end. we need to make sure everybody pays their fair share. we also ould keep our debt in mind. >> gary b., haven't we seen this movie before? i mean, job initiatives, manufacturing institutes. green spending. it can work. >> exactly, brenda, you know, chuck mentioned the american people want results. i agree, they want result, unfortunately, as you imply, the u.s. government hasn't given those results. the big programs that they have social security, medicare, dicaid are filled with fraud and overbudget. then you have other things where they waste money like amtrak, which loses money every day. they can't even make money with a virtual monopoly in the u.s.

postal service. big projects by the government are inherent loaded with pork and bloat and a high government pensions. they just don't work. so if i give a dollar to the government, it comes back to me in the form of about 80 cents or. so add that to the statistics that john gave us running up a debt that we can't pay. my gosh, we will be spending $8 billion a year on interest payments alone. this madness has to stop. it's a pox on both parties. >> that's true. both aisles are definitely at fault here. tracy whato you think? >> to gary's point, maybe an initiative that has worked, bren dark, right? help for homeowners, not so much. cash for clunkers, find me a shovel-ready project that was shovel-ready or completed. nothing is woin that they've done. so why not let corporateamerica finally take the reigns, themself, do this on their own, unless of course they will fund the pothole repairs near new

york city. stay the hell out of business. >> i think we will all support that. checks of $56 billion, can we afford it? >> no, we can't afford it. also, we can't afford to put any more burden on our working poor or on the working people paying the jority of the tacks as we go forward. as the americanpeople, not in politics for a living. they want to see clear results. they don't want to see the burden shifted to one class or another. they don't want to see peopl working every single day having to pay all the bills, when the people who are rich who can afford tax lp homes to get through this. >> how do thesenitiatives help? we are talking about green spending, more manufacturing initiatives. >> it seems to me like manufacturing initiatives will be good at bringing jobs back here, instead of shifting the blame, moving all of those js overseas, if we can invest here. >> manufacturing is dent, chuck. come on now. >> don'tell the american

people that manufacturing is dead, because if we don't have manufacturing, that's fine. will you tn your back on the american people, we will never be able to produce anything in america. >> you are not turning your back on people who make horseshoes, they have moved on. >> they are the ones that build everything you drive your car through. >> you are not giving american credit. sir. you kn what, there are entrepreneurs in their basementes trying to figure out what they want. people leak you are holding them back. >> no, you are holding them back, you don't want themo do their job. >> they should make horseshoes. jonas. >>hey are holding them back. it is worth noteing the income tax credit. gettingback to the actual point. we were on a trend in government. yes, they were raising taxes on upper income people. there were some spending cuts. the deficit is a lot lower than it was a few years ago. that all got scrapped. we were going to do thi thing when they changed the social

security formula, a big hole for government. they were going to raise more tacks, that deal mang seems to be gone now. now it's the old i'll spend on the green initiatives, you get a defense spending budget. >> that leads to more spending with which we can't afford. i think we can solve these problems in a neutral way. lower income tax to offset it. >> that will discourage, consume the energy and encourage working. you can't spend money on credits here and more defense spending to get other people to vote for it. th's the old way governme works. that's how you get the deficits. >> john, how are you going to break the cycle of debt if we increase spending, $56 billion? >> we are not. nobody wants to deal when titlementes. president obama says he is not going to deal when titlementes based on what he said. >> that is our probable. look, we can cut discretionary spending and military spending to zero. we are running a deficit in our country, based on entitlements d mandatory spending.

look, the reason manufacturing is starting resurgence is because of fracking. frking brought down natural gas. that was an old tax break given to an oil company and we said all these evil oil companies, let's cut out our tax breaks. okay, great, do it. you will sab about $4 billion. president obama says he's going to cut,ay for this by closing loopholes. that is ridiculous. this is a hat tra, a hat trick that a magician is trying to pull, pull the wool over america's eyes. it's not working. >> okay. chuck, take on john. >> i don't want to take on john, let's be clear about that ght now. agree, there is enough blame to go around for everybody. i think the way you handle your checkbook at home. you have to tighten the belt if there isn't enough money in the bank. you have to invest in the future to make sure you have a living. >> that's the thing. i don't think we are. are just giving it out, welfare checks all around. food stamps to whoever needs them these days.

we are not telling peek to go home and do something forhis country. technology is on the rise, man, let's go for it. why do we have to have the white house to help us? we don't need them. their job is to protect us as a nation. don't cut defense spending. that's how i want them to spend money. i want you out of corporate america. man, there are so many smart ople out there that c do this on their own without the interference of the government. >> gary b. >> when chuck says we need to invest in america, that's lefty speak for the government spending more. how about going about it the other way, how about cutting taxes and giving that money back to the american public so we can have the next andrew carnegie or andrew ford who by the way didn't need manufacturing initiatives to run and brg up some of the greatest corporations we've ever had. >> jonas. >> it's worth saying the new andrew carnegie is like this kid that sold out to facebook for multi -- i won't say his family was on welfare on food stamps in this country.

there are cases this leads to future growth in america. we also waste a lot of money. it's not so obvious where the waste is going in the budget, necessarily. >> okay. thanks, guys. so, he's known for dirty bs, now mike se's name is getting dragged through the mud by wal-mart critics all because he supports wal-mart's plan to get this, buy american-made goods. what is wrong with that? neil's gang is debating it at the bottom of the hour. up rs a new study showing obama tax is about to make health care premiums spike. so is it any wonder democrats are at a loss for words? >> a part of the affordable

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dang it. together we can put an end to heart disease. it'simto go red for women. i could use your help. yay! learn more from the american heart assocation at www.goredforwomen.org and bears" on the fox news channel the most powerful name in news. have a great day. so, remember this? >> what i pledge to do as a candidate and save a typical family an average of $2,500 on their health care costs in the coming years. >> well, mayb not. >> a part of the affordable health care act is to save $2500. at happened? [ laughter ] so even democrats are stumped and itay be about to get worse. a new study saying obamacare's multibillion dollar tax on insurance companies is going to slam consumers right in the

wallets. tracy, get ready for the premium hikes. >> yh, you could have seen this coming a mime. corporations are not going to suck up the difference if their expenses are going up. heck, no, they're going to pas them right on so family can expect premiums to go up$260 a ar. individuals expect abt a $160 bump in your premiums as well. >> that will just get worse from there. this is how corporate america works unfortunately. it is going to be passed onto the consumer. hold on to your cash while you can. >> that's what companies have to do, chuck, isn't it? if they get hit with more taxes or whatever? they've got to go down and hit the consumer at some point? >> luckily today, price waterhouse put out a study saying average premiums went down 4% because of the affordable health care act. i think it's good a lot more people are signing up for health care. i think this law is being enacted. i think you will see lots and lots of people feeling the way i do.

>>ary b., do you? >> i would like to see that report. i don't question chuck's facts there. i would like to see that for myself. every report i are seen say the average premiums will go up. what will happen, brenda, this whole law was built on these young people volunteering to pay the higher premiums. that's not happening. so these insurance companies are left to hold you in the bag if you will. i think what will happen is there is going to be an insurance company bailout. you know who will pay for that. us, brenda, through taxes. but here's the problem. the irs has no way to collect those taxes. people say, you know what,i'm not paying that he can heck tax. there is nowhere in the provision for the irs to garnish wages or any ofthis oer stuff. it will ll apart. it will be a mess. maybe the ght's best way is to let it sail down and implode on its own. >> jo narcs bad for some people, good for others? is that ur take? >> yeah the average consumer, 's hard to know. i will say the above average consumer of health care, whether

you are older or near medicare age or not quite there or are you a frequent flyer in the health care industry as they call you. you are not goin to se the cost of this. the below average consumer of health care, whether fit, healthy, eat right, young, that person is ing to be paying for the other person's increased health care coverage because it is mandateing in its simplicity more health cverage and better health coverage with no caps. somebody has to pick up that tab. thea.l. got tapped with being politically incorrect. that's going to get passed on to other health insurance, people who don't have bills like that. it's bakally capital communism in a way. >> fit, healthy, eat right. i got to to john for that. how bass is this going to get? >> i think itill get significantly wors only time will tell 20 years out if this is a good law or not. right now it los like it will get much worse.

i was an investment banker for yeempls these are very conservative estimates. we are all going to be billionaires in about two years. like mike tyson says, everybody has a plan until you get punched in the mouth. these guys planned on a rosy scenario that everybody is going to sign up. it all going to be free. that's notoing to happen. we will see fewer doctors, higher premiums. is will be pd for through taxes. >> last word. thanks, guys. so the non-partisan ceo delivering a blow to the democrat's push to hike the minimum wage. it's predicting msse job losses. if that's the case, is it time to scrap the minimum wage all together? ♪

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[ female announcer ] the x1 entertainment operating system, only from xfinity. tv and internet together like never before. . >> you heard it here first that all these calls for pay hikes will backfire and now the want congressional budget office is confirming it, predicting the president's push to hike t wage to $10.10 an hour will bring a half million job losses. ga b., that's why you are saying scrap it altogether? >> i know, brenda, and before people on the left say, my gosh, that heartless gary smith, how can you scrap the minimum ge? i went around and searched to see if any other developed country scrapped the minimum wage. in fact, switzerland has no minimum wage. now, look, it's interesting. switzerland's unemployment rate is 3%. so you say, well, surely then,

they have a high poverty rate. no, theipoverty rte is less than half ours at 7%. ours is about 16%. in fact, california, which has a higher than the 7-whatever $1 per hour min muj u mum wage than $8 has a 3% unemployment rate. switzerland has the highest wealth per capit in the world. my gosh, if switzerland can do it, doesn't it make sense we should try it? >> chuck, what do you think about that? >> that's where i keep all my money over in switzerland, i'm sure that's the reason why everybody is like that. but the facts are the facts. the problem with this ceo, it might be a half a million, it might be a million. how do y say my chicken's butt. the facts are it would lift 900,000 out of profit. i realize that isn't how corporate america works. you should be able to pay them what you want to pay them. that's the facts. it would be good for america.

>> if you inceoes the price of sothing, don't you decrease the demand? >> yes, i'm still confused about the mice on a chicken butt. i don't knowuch about chickens, chuck. >> you are from texas. you should know. >> chuck and i speak the same langge. i'm kit kidding. look, i'm not for dropping the minimum wage. i'm for linking it to inflation and a basket of wages. it goes up or down according to what the market should ar. they take it out of polics and union's hands. >> jonas, what do you think? get rid of it? >> first of all, japan has crazy minimum wages. yocan't look at what another country does. you have to look at america. we don't know the ceo thing is a guesstimate. it could be people out of work. we have to do it to se what happens, gary right in the sense we don't 93 ne it

because the states have more constitutional. they can set it based on local cost of living. but i will give you for it that makes no economic sense. the perception offairness, they can't capture this in a ceo report. when you look at the revolutions of history, russia and france, it's because they didn't have labor laws. i wonder if things stil have royalty and they have minimum wage. all the countries with royal families have minimum wage. you avoid a revolution and a maximum wage. it's a 90% top tax bracket. don't bring those bk. get people minimum wage to do that. >> we will keep that clip. this makes no economic sense. >> tracy, go ahead. >> but what makes no economic sense is we do studies. they could really poua cup of coffee and watch us on saturday morning. we have been saying all along that raising the minimum wage

hurts jobs. it doesn't create them. i get the notion that everyone needs a starting point. but that is what it is. it is a starting point. you should not aspire to go to the grave making minimum wage and so we really need to get people to think big picre around here. let's get you in the door, man, i want to be. i want m kids to want to be the next steve job, not the guy that makes minimum wage until death do us part. >> okay. last word. thanks, guys. and thank you, chuck, for joining us. we like having you. >> thank you all. >> up next. if your kids gets out, get ready to shell out.

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. >> predictions, gary b, you're up. >> bren zsa, housing is slumpingho repairs aren't. i like home depot. >> jonas bull or bear >> bear. >> john yourprediction. >> beef prices up, the answer good fried southern yard burn, fried foods up 20% on the year. >> gary,re you a bull or bear? >> i'm a bear right now, brenda. >> okay. tracy. >> all right. so if your kid skips school, watch out, you pay get a ticket or a fine. i think it's a pretty good id. keep the kids in school, make them pay. >> jonas, prediction. >> an enterpriseing young girl scout sold her koom cookies in colorado outside a medical

marijuana dispensary. the smtest mis in ameri are launching mnt chocolate toothpaste when pot is legal to get on to this enhanced taste sensation in a 20% in the year. >> how people don't pot people don't brush. >> neil cavuto next. >> well, not afraid of dirty dogs, now people are slinging mud because he's supporting wal-mart jobs. it is the ad that is driving mad. >> we're still here and i believe i will rise again. we will build things and build families and build dreams. >> does that voice sound familiar? it's dirty star microe, he is getting grief with the ad and the name. >> i am using wal-mart to talk about the fact that in my own humble opinion