tv The Willis Report FOX Business February 26, 2014 5:00pm-6:01pm EST
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gerri: hello, everybody, i'm gerri willis. right now on "the willis report", big changes for frequent flyer programs. advantage for elite flyers but whaa about the rest of us? also, bombshell allegations against the department of veterans affairs. vets medical records systematically destroyed to cover up the department's incompetence. don't give uncle sam more than you have to. avoid simple mistakes with retirement accounts. we're watching out for you on the willie l list report. -- "the willis report." gerri: 12 days after general motors recalled their
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chevy cobalts and pontiac g-5s due to faulty ignitions gm expanded that list with five more models. that brings the number of recalls to 1.6 million vehicles and the death toll, to 13. so is thissjust the beginning? joining me car expert lauren fix and attorney lance cooper, who represent ad georgia family suing the company over the death of their daughter. he says gm knew about the problems years ago. lauren, i will start with you. this has been a story a long time in the making, years and years and years. why hasn't gm been more forthcoming about information with this problem? >> well, that's the question. you know i think it was back, there has been a lot of changes in management and of course you have the government involvee. i don't know why. the truth is, there is no reason to hide this when you've got deaths involved. and i'm not a lawyer but i'll tell you what, as a lawyer he is going to have a lot to work with because this is crazy that consumers are dying, cars have
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problems over something this simple that could have been fixed. the fact that gm didn't take a stake in their customers, in their brand recognition, to say, this is going to take a long time to heal. this will be a ong time for gm 20 recover. gerri: 31 crashes. lance, turn to you now. tell us about your client, the family of your client suing gm. what happened? >> well, we represented ken and beth melton, the parents of brook melton, 29-year-old lldy who on her 29th birthday was driving on a country road here in georgia where she lost control of her vehicle. the officer blamed her but ultimately when we downloaded the black box information we discovered that her car shut off three seconds before the crash. gerri: wow. >> when her car shut off, she lost her power steering and anti-lock brakes. she lost control and crash resulted. >> probably no deployment of airbags either would be my guess. lauren to you, so here's the
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problem. it is an ignition problem. i have to tell you, lauren, this will sound very unsympathetic, but we're hearing people say, why are folks using super heavy key that is causes this in part helps cause this ignition problem? describe to us how consumers play into this by using heavy key chains. >> well i don't believe this is consumer's fault. i believe this is manufacturer of the ignition cylinder of the lock. i don't think, because you decide to buy some little trinket at some vacation spot and decide to hang it on your key chain, this is huge industry, people sell key fobs and have multiple keys. that is not unusual. that depend on the people, i only carry key to the car when i use it. key to the door, key to the office, some trinket from vacation and that is enough to cause weight. driving over rough roads. we discussed with potholes and everything. a pothole was enough to cause the ignition to go either into
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accessory or off mode. same thing as parked car. no power steering, no power brakes, no power windows. no safety features. gerri: that is what happened to his client. lance to you, the company told dealers about the issue. said if they wanted to fix it they could but that doesn't really get the message out to the public now, does isn't what should gm have done and when should they have done it? >> gm's chief programing engineer tested vehicle with just a key and key fob it shut off. in 2005 they had an internal committee meeting where they discovered the ignition switch was defective. instead of fixing the switch, they started selling these vehicles with the defective ignition switch. they came up with this key fix, but they began selling vehicles without the key fix. in other words you have to have an incident, a scary skint where your vehicle shut off and then you would take it into the dealer. then they would recommend a fix. gerri: wow. >> at love these cases the first incident is the worst incident.
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gerri: there is no second incident. i want to show people, the make and models we're talking about. the original recall, the 2005, 2007 chevy cobalt. 2007 pontiac g-5. we're showing updates to that list. the ones in the cross-hairs right now. the saturn ion. chevrolet hhr. pontiac solstice. saturn sky. lauren, to you what if i own one of the cars? you. >> take it to dealer. call local dealer which everyone you want. doesn't make a difference. gm brand. usually chevy dealer. i have a problem. i have one of these vehicles i want the fix done. they may not have those parts yet. does take time for them to get from the factory to them. i would say don't drive the car in the meantime. take everything off the key chain. use the key itself. like the other panelist said. it is important to note this can happen without any weight on the key chain as these tumblers wear.
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all it takes is a simple key and jolt you could be in the off mode which means you have no control of your vehicle. it is very dangerous. gerrr: wow! >> i would say get ahold of dealer immediately. if they don't have it, find another dealer who has the repair parts, get the car fixed immediately. sell the car. not everyone is in position to do with it. gerri: when you sell it you have a tell people what is wrong with it. you have moral obligation. >> yes you do. gerri: lance, where is nhtsa in all this? >> nhtsa knew about this problem in 2007. they investigated a crash with airbag failure but they never followed up. we submit ad timlyness query, a letter to nhtsa after gm initially the announced the recall, saying the recall scope was not broad enough. fortunately yesterday, nissan, excuse me, gm responded by broadening the recall but there still needs to be civil and criminal penalties looked at with gm. they knew about this problem for almost a decade. at least 13 people are dead. probably more. and yet it wasn't until the lags
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two weeks that they revealed the existence of this defect to the federal government. their obligation is to reveal a safety related defect within five days under the tread act. this was almost a decade. so there needs to be investigation of both civil and criminal penalties against gm. gerri: lauren, do you, do you see investigations probes coming? what happens next? really what happens for consumers? that is what i really care about? let's get this darn thing fixed. >> from a marketing pr perrpective gm will have to deal with what a lot of other manufacturers to deal with. it will take a long time for people impacted or people that own these vehicles to get over maybe distrust of general motors. that is kind of sad because they have some great product on the market right now. but the fact is, a manufacturer produced a part. maybe to spec, maybe not to spec. when the product got put on production line, pass of all these safeties essentially and got out to consumers and dealers
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didn't do anything about it. gm didn't do anything about it. and even nhtsa didn't do anything about it. as consumer i think there will be a lot of legal cases, a lot more out there we're aware of. there may be other deaths or accidents maybe no one was able to tie the two of these together. >> wow. >> maybe this other attorney is smart enough to go back and check black box information. that may be something you may have to do. gerri: lauren, lance, thank you. before you go i will tell our viewers what gm had to ssy, full and fair and balanced here. he says, alan blakely, insuring our customers safety is first order of business. we are deeply sorry. we're working to address this issue as quickly as we can. this story wwll go on and we'll have both of you back. thanks for coming on today. thanks, appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> thank you. gerri: we want to know what you think. here's our question tonight. gm says they put consumer safety first. do you agree? log on to gerriwillis.com. vote on the right-hand side of the screen.
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we'll vote on tell the totallat end of the show. delta air lines will announce they will base your loyalty based on money. they are rewriting the rules for the sky miles program. they will be the first major airline miles based on air fare price instead of the distance. we have brian kelley, points guy.com. good to see you, brian. welcome back. >> thanks for having me. gerri: delta says this is consumer friendly. >> no long ear frequent flyer program. it is about frequent spending. what this means for most consumers you will earn a lot less miles than you're used to. if you pried yourself getting cheap tickets the amount of miles you earn will decrease. gerri: so my whole plan is worth less money, is that what you're telling me? >> in tandem with this, delta is increasing amount of miles to redeem award twice this year. there might be more changes during the year.
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you will be earning less miles but getting harder to redeem. a lot of frequent flyers are up in arms, myself included. gerri: yourself included. look at delta 2015 sky miles program, excluding taxes and fees that is important exclusion, my friend. here is what you're looking at the a miles per dollar are five. people get the biggest bang for your buck, obviously diamond medallion flyer. if you're a super-duper flyer maybe you're okay. >> maybe you're okay. you don't now because they might jack up award levels more. even throwing a few crumbs here, if they increase the amount of miles to redeem by 100% you're not really coming out ahead. gerri: once you back out taxes and fees, everything else, come on are you taking a 50% hit? are you taking 25% hit. in u.s. taxes and fees are not too much -- gerri: but your viewpoint. i know lot of people aren't too happy about them. >> government fees are usually $5 on domestic ticket.
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it is really international. fuel surcharges and flying through london you will see 350-dollar fees on tickets. none of that counts towards earning miles. it is a lot less than people think. gerri: a lot of people will defend this saying, it is a tough business out there. consolidating all the time. competition is key. >> this is not a tough business. the airlines are making billions from the frequent flyer programs. they are huge profit centers. they're not giving free flights. this is one more erosion of consumer benefits. if you're unhappy about the changes, let delta know or take your business elsewhere. gerri: how about tweeting it. >> yeah. gerri: they're not only once doing this obviously. southwest, jetblue, virgin, everyone is rewriting rules on this why? >> southwest and virgin had revenue-based programs a while. they're not that popular. this is the first time a major program has done it. delta can do it erode benefits an consumers are okay with it you can be sure other airlines
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will follow. gerri: makes me wonder, if there are enough complaining will they backtrack. >> if people are leaving the company they will absolutely backtrack on a bad change. if you don't like it, make it your voice heard. gerri: make your voice heard. brian kelley, the points guy. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. gerri: we have more to come as we look out for you and your money with advice how to play the problems at pimco. do you own a pimco fund. email upon millions of email log-ins are up for sale on the black market. we have a shocking new report next. announcer: where can an investor
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be a name and not a number? scotade. ron: i'm neverlone with scottrade. i can ways call or stop by my local office. they're nearby and ready to help. so whei have questions, can lk to someone who knows exactly how i trade. because i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. that's why i'm with scottrade. announcer: ranked highest in investor satisfaction self-direed services by j.d. power and assoctes. gerri: listen up, your email log-in and password could be for sale online, right this very minute. one online security firm, hold security, says its researchers uncovered 360 million stolen credentials for sale on the cyber black markets. alex holden, chief information officer for hold security joins me now. welcome to the show. great to have you here. i read about this with great interest. how did you find out about this
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and they're stealing credtial at dyou an byhat? wl, tnk yor hing m here my fm de cer inveigatns and we tckhe ckerve all orh ternin pcehere the can ke it thrgh t ctter or ehang the gas. wh we seometng le that ppeng, wtry to see what's for sale and how it is being traded. in this particular situation over the last three weeks we were able to gather an exceptional amount of this data and this data is stolen from different services or computer systems that everybody uses. >> i understand. that is incredible amount. gerri: yahoo!, amazon, gmail, microsoft. i know there are, there is a situation where people's passwords, user, fther what else are these guys getting away with?
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>> these guys are stealing anything that they can get their hand on and usually they attack services that everybody uses. it is not that they are not targeting specific email providers, or companies. they ever trying to find easiest prey and then steal anything they can from these companies that don't have their security up to snuff. gerri: here's my fear. some of the information that they're apparently getting away with that was described in the story that mentioned your company seems to me, if you had that info, if you had typical user name i use, my password, you might be able to get into my bank account. you might be able to rob all the money out of my bank account s that something i should be worried about? >> absolutely. right now some analysts considering that a lot of credit cards right now under closer scrutiny look at the credentials that you really use to out then kate yourself to the banks, to
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your significance media, to your friends an family, to your email they use it as the key to everything you have. a lot of places like banks want to authenticate that hour you say you are, sending you information email for example. gerri: wow. okay. that sound really super dangerous. who are these people anyway? >> these are usually eastern european, russian desent or countries of former soviet union. they are young people looking for easy money because for the most part their crimes go unpunished y their government. they feel free to target the united states and europeans to steal our hard-earneddmoney. gerri: here is what i don't understand. so this stuff is for sale online, right? but i never see these websites. are they hidden away?
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>> absolutely. these are very private websites, invitation only, or even the ones that are hidden within anonymous networks. so to get invitation there, to get a seat at their table it take as lot of skill, it takes a lot of time to get in there and gain their trust. gerri: i hear they're super sophisticated too, websites? >> they are. these guys are using the latest tricks in technology, the cutting-edge stuff and they try to defend themselveses a much as some businesses do against monitoring by people like my company or from the authorities. >> well a brand new threat to consumers tonight. online. this time they're taking your emails, your passwords, your user names. you might want to change that tonight. thanks for coming on the show. appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. gerri: coming up later in the show, listen to this. the va in more hot water for
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that helped americans dodge taxes. of the senate subcommittee. >> taxes owed on billions of dollars in hidden offshore assets remain uncollected. to collect the those unpaid taxes and hold u.s. tax evaders accountable, the critical first step is to get their names. gerri: the senate subcommittee took specific aim at credit suisse, saying secret meetings taking place in luxury hotels and he straighttores bee long in -- elevators belong in a spy novel. one even returned home with bank statements tucked into a "sports illustrated" magazine. imagine that. the justice department which is probing 14 swiss banks says credit suisse opens accounts for more than 22,000 u.s. customers totaling $12 billion. and now a look inside the world's biggest bond firm. "the wall street journal" is reporting the situation between
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pimco's ceo and mohammed el-erian and cofounder bill gross got very intense indeed in the last year and may have actually led to he el-erian's resignation. what does it mean for the future of pimco and your investments in here with more is the reporter that broke the story for "the wall street journal" is gregory zuckerman. gregory, you have everybody talking about this story. i think everybody and their mother owns a piece of pimco. they have money in pimco funds. what did you find out about the tense situation in those offices? >> so it is a difficult place to work. wall street firms in general can be really ard places to work. when you talk to people who worked at a lost firms including pimco this one is harder than others. for a while that didn't matter too much. mohammed el-erian didn't really feel the impact. a lot came from founder bill gross who liken to apple founder steve jobs. can be a difficult person but a genius too. the results have been remarkable over the years in terms of production and invests.
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>> yes. >> so that didn't affect mohammed he will airy ran until past year the market came under pressure and he felt some of the heat and -- gerri: talk about what happened at pimco's biggest fund, pimco total return had a very difficult time during the bond seeloff. gross was forced to talk about a it publicly. a lot of maya cull passes. -- mea culpas. what was going on ensued the doors of the firm on the west coast? >> newport beach, california. pimco saw the outflows. some people said internally said, not a big deal, we had so much money coming into the funds. they manage almost $2 trillion. a lot of money came in. it will come out. other people felt pressure. in general they had to figure out how to deal with it. the fund underperformed relative to some of the competitors but actually beat its benchmark yet there was stress and there was pressure and they all really felt it. gerri: this is because gross was so super successful coming into
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that, right? interesting fellow, apparently does yoga in the mornings. doesn't want to be talked to by the hi pa loy in the mornings as you reported. wants to be left alone. idiosyncratic. is this type of a person typically you find at the top of a company? >> that is interesting question. he is a genius. let him be quirky and difficult that is not a big of a deal. i would argue he is 69. at some point he has to show where the next generation will be and handover of power. he doesn't need to necessarily do it right now. they are still doing fine and they have a lost talent there but he has to show where they will go and where the direction is. gerri: he is sort of doing that now. they have hired four people to come on as cios already in the company. they have been elevated. they're on the investment committee. they will be making choices bin vests. the question with the new people taking el-erian's place, will they ever say to bill gross, i
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disagree with you? >> that's exactly right. i think they're very talented these people, if they're empowered the firm will be fine. if you're an investor that is one less thing to worry about. i'm not sure he will be. jury is out on that. we'll see. gerri: that brings up a very big question for investors who watch the show every night, which is, should i stay in pimco funds. >> right. i do want to stress they have got a lost talent there, superstar investors probably because they pay so much. a lot of guys get paid over $20 million a year. they can hire the best and brightest on wall street. they have a lot of talent. the question whether they will be empowered going forward. gerri: el-erian only ran personally two fund. they have already named two new bond fund managers for those funds. do you think they did a good job. >> frankly el-erian's record is not good either in some ways. so you lost him and interesting, smart guy, thoughtful leader. they have a lost talent and they
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could do better with these fund. gerri: fascinating story. just to point out, so bill gross "morningstar" named him the fund manager of the decade for the 2,000s. what do you make of that today? >> he is still a hall of fame investor and at 69. this is somebody you want to bet on but you want to make sure the organization is structured in the proper way as well. gerri: thanks for coming on. great job. fascinating story. hope you come back soon. >> sure. gerri: time for a look at stories we're looking at on foxbusiness.com. sales of new homes rebounding at fastest pace in more than five years the commerce department says. sales increased more than nine 1/2% to annual rate of 468,000. came as a surprise to economists who have been forecasting a sales drop in january because of those winter storms. that news helping to push the s&p 500 back into record territory and investors also been digesting earnings reports from retailers including lowe's,
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abercrombie & fitch, and barnes & noble. target also reporting earnings showing the massive data breach cut its profit by 46%. the retailer says sales fell nearly five 1/2% as the breach scared off customers. and as we mentioned before, delta making major changes to its frequent flyer program. it will reward those who buy its most expensive tickets as @pposed to those who fly the most miles. the program doesn't go into effect until 2015. those are some of the hot stories right now on foxbusiness.com. coming up, the white house is claiming another obamacare victory. we'll have the real numbers. next the va seems to have the solution to the growing backlog. just destroy the files. we'll tell you all about it coming up. ♪ ♪ we asked people a question, how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? $500,000.
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maybe half-million. say a million dollars. [ dan ] then we gave each person a ribbon to show how ma years that amount might last. ♪ i was tryingo like pull it a ltlfurther. you know, i was trying to stretch it a little bit more. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. [ man ] i looked around t everybody else and i was like, "are u kidding me?" [ dan ] it's just human nature to focusn the here and now. so it's hard to imagine h mucwe'll need for a retirement that could last 3years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently, we wanto be ready for a longer retirement. ♪ ♪
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>> 2001. gerri: new evidence obtained by the daily collar of a systematic attempt to destroy veterans' medical records by a employees themselves in and los angeles attempting to quell the of backlog of claims. joining me now is a veteran of concern veterans for america. what about this video? >> it is absolutely shocking but we expected this. the virginia has demonstrated time and again it cannot be held accountable for those that have served the nation they're more concerned about the backlog numbers than those who have given so much to this nation have a right to have an appointment not to have the records discarded it is such a
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disgrace was such a backlog that this has been proven. gerri: these were medical records from veterans that have medical health request and it wanted to be processed to get medical help. instead the virginia destroyed the documents? the very documents needed to get them in front of doctors? we will go back to the office where this took place here are some employees talking about what they are doing.
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gerri: wow! if it is startling. water veterans telling you? >> for as long as i have been working veterans have always believed the fda was systemically trying to stop them befooe they help them. this is to be providing medical care they're getting 3,000 requests for appointments in one month and can only manage 800 and so instead they have the ors say getid of the which wradicate the a there is ence they everequested claim. can you e agent orange , a cancer, colonoscopy, never hearing back from the hospital they thought would take care of them? of veterans have long suspected the virginia is more concerned about the
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backlog numbers than care to resolve the claims. gerri: we know there are 389,861 claims 50 percent are pending over 125 days. it is it an embarrassment it is a just a los angeles office? >> no, no, no. the people ihe g actually the numbers are more accurate there are 600,000 pending almost 400,000 are backlogged. 57 percent cannot get resolved in 125 days. the average wait time is 342 days. you can get on food stamps in one month if it is an emergency, of one week. we have veterans who may need treatment who have not even been addressed.
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it is systemic. gerri: unbelievable. come back to report on anything that happens. it is a national embarrassment. thank you for coming on the show. uubelievable. the pentagon's latest proposal seeking to balance the budget on the backs of military families. / $1 billion from subsidies to military grocer's stores. if approved the family could see the bills go up $3,000 per year now 1.$5 million goes to these purchase stores also capping military pay raises and cut the subsidies if they do not live on base. we will have to advice on your retirement including the mistakes you should avoid. obamacare enrollment numbers
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gerri: a series of obamacare tips quietly released bb the irs. reminding those to pave the individual mandate call it a shared responsibility pavement. research associate from heritage foundation and joins us. [laughter] what about this language? >> unbelievable. this is not about responsibility but government coercion. the language that they use. the government reflection of the ideology not only for seeing you but what level of coverage that needs to be
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covered. gerri: if you don't have health care you pay a tax. they want to call it the shared responsibility pavement that is nothing but it is. but this is a big story with the enrollment numbers and we're pulling short. 4 million people have signed up 75% complete supposed to have 7 million by march 31st. will that happen? >> no reasonable reason to believe they could get another 3 million people to sign up. but that is a reflection not of those who paid premiums that is how you gain coverage. gerri: what do we know about the age of those folks? >> as of right now they are not hitting their targets.
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the obama administration wanted 40 percent in the 18 through 34 age group but now only have 25 percent. gerri: the irony is secretary sebelius is denying there was a 7 billion signup cool says it was 5 million. here she is. >> 7 million was not the administration that was the cbo projection when the bill was first signed. i am not sure where they got the numbers. >> we will get 546. gerri: what is it? wasn't the cbo number or the administration and? what is the real goal? >> they keep moving the goalposts but may 2013 the cbo expected the bread game
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coverage with a projection of five or 6 million with those technological challenges summit was on the administration's own website >> what is your prediction as we move deeper into obamacare territory what problems will develop? >> especially the individual mandate. people don't want to pay a penalty i think more americans will get more angry with this law and its impact. gerri: not many people are happy with it now. but there are supporters of some of the. but we have lots of
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concerns. we appreciate your time. breaking news. with the keystone exxon pipeline get another greenlight the inspector general just released a long-awaited report about a conflict of interest between keystone and a private contractor the government hired to do an environmental study. it concluded the project should go well ahead protesters said they have close styles -- ties to the industry. the ig report flat out dismisses those charges. a big vote tonight on the keystone xl pipeline be will have more tonight and tomorrow. we answer the question how do you do that? how to avoid major retirement mistakes.♪
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do this. when you make a contribution into the roth i.r.a. or convert you take after-tax dollars putting it into a count and all future growth is completely taxas asfive years and be over 59 and a half years old. simple. the bid alone and do what you are supposed to. gerri: it is tax free. how do people screw up? >> if they need the money if it is not five years the money are busily put into the account, the contribution that comes out tax-free. you paid your taxes but any
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earnings may or may not be taxable. gerri: so the growth. the earnings. that is important. what happens if i break the rules? >> the penalty, the portion may or may not be taxable but subjjct to a penalty. if you take the money out for qualified reasons for the first-time home purchase medical expenses expenses, education, a disabled said note 10% penalty but still taxable income. gerri: then they will take 10 percent of the top. the i.r.a. set -- irs puts themselves of the list.
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>> you inherited the i.r.a. normally it is a 10% penalty but if it is inherited there issno penalty. gerri: legitimate medical expenses? make aou cannot pay those qualified withdraw. gerri: do you have to pay yourself back? >> no. there are no loan privileges gerri: taken out or you don't. >> you have several over the not the lone. gerri: with higher education can you do it for your kids? >> but it has to be real. at the end of the year it will tell you your tuition the numbers have to match. gerri: your kids can borrow
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for their education and you cannot borrow for your retirement. >> as the nation we are so underfunded in retirement it is ridiculous. if ou put the dollars in and try hard nottto touch it >> great job. with more baby boomers we are devoting the entire day tomorroo to the brumaire retirement day what you need to know to make your year's golden. tune in for boomer retirement. the answer to the question of the day. gm says they put consumers first. do you agree? e loves a a lot of the same things you .
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but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a questi of blood fl. cialis tadalafil f daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed taet approvedo treat ed and symptoms obph, like needing to gos is frequently or urgent.t te your doctor about all your medical like needing to gos is frequently or urgent.t conditions and medications, and k if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this y cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not dri alcohol in excess th cialis. asside effects may inclue drheadache, upset stomac delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, se immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours.
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if you have y sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or iyou have any allergic reactions such as rashhives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or or difficulty breathing reaor swallowing, rashhives, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor abt cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.
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i can relate to. send us any mail. tonight i am a big fan of personal responsibility. that is well retirement savings is abouu whether 401k setting aside money is the right thing that the white house began in the way demonstration wants to cut tax breaks for savers and investors. singling out americans. we have a big problem in this country with retirement savings not that people less saving too much but to play too little. the average balance is 42,000 on the 5% of savers and investors contribute the maximum. $17,500. buzz off white house stay away from retirement savings
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tomorrow all day long bloomer retirement day. thank you for joining us. we will be back tomorrow. neil: welcome, everybody. i am neil cavuto. do you ever hear something that sticks with you? it was a comment last sunday for me. >> since president has been in office we have reached the point where cutting the annual deficit in half to reduce the overall debt of united states by $3 trillion over the next 10 years. neil: i heard that it stuck with me i immediately said he just out to an allied made ising the debt is coming down it will shrink
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