week. anna's three dogs. it's a battle over jobs. the economy may have added more than expected last month, but both sides if washington agree, not enough. who's got the better plan to get the numbers up? >> lower tacks. >> cut tacks. >> lower tax rates. >> we need a job date. >> simple flat tax. >> cut tacks. >> plen fiof conservatives at cpac calling for tax cuts. while the president's new budget calls for a series of tax hikes. so whose got it right? hi, everyone, i'm brenda butner. this is the "bulls & bears." . welcome to everybody, so, john,

tax hikes or tax cuts for the economy? >> well, the tax hikes, the president remember a few years ago said he needed somebody to claim the race that everything would be fine, the debt would be taken care of. he said at the time only about 40 or $50 billion a yeempl that was a political speech. he was being a politician. now we are seeing a good number on friday, the lowest participation rates in 30 years. 1348 less jobs, despite the fact we had a lot of jobs. remember, this budget, no one is taking this serious. the white house in 2010, the key growth in 2013. in 2011, they ramped it up, give us more money. it will be fine, it will be 4.5% in 2013. they are doing the projection of 3.1% rate. that's pure fantasy t. best

economy is 2.5. this is not real fiction. >> we got a long way to go. tax cuts to tax hievenlths you say a little bit of both? >> in theory, tax cuts with spending cuts would be better for the economy, especially, no we are no not in a recession. they didn't like it after a while. so realistically, the only way we will close this multibillion dollar deficit every year is with more tax increases. now, we saw some of the tax come back to the top 1 or 21st% of the company. everybody has to go back to the tax cycle. 96% of the country show a deficit. the taxes will go up without spending cuts, that's what we have to do. it's better than lowering taxes with no spending cuts and widening the deficit. how will we handle our next recession if we have a wider

deficit? how will we handle a lighter deficit than we have now? >> not much is getting done, tracy. lots of them. >> i don't understand why they don't get it. raising middle tax is hurting the middle class. you can hire billions of people to figure out not how to pay these guys. they are moving their money. they know what to do. middle class people don't have that kind of resources. and they get stuck with the bill every single time. it backfires. i don't know why they're not getting it. the middle class is getting pushed away. they keep expanding the lower income for people to the point it doesn't make it worth getting a job. you won't qualify for that. are you giving money away and taxing the middle class. >> gary b. you are really taxing small businesses, too, they are the engine of job growth. we are talking about jobs. unemployment.

what is going to help the economy get going again? what are the cuts going to do? >> brenda, i think it's easy. i prefer to phrase it like this. it's either we keep the money or the government keeps the money to spend. when moem most people think about it, when we give the money the government to spend, what do we get for it? we are all in favor of moving the economy and everyone, as tracy said, benefit middle class, upper class, lower class, everyone bend. that's not always true. we grave trillions of dollars for the obama stimulus. what did we get tore that? it turns out we have less jobs now. we gave hundreds of millions to obamacare. everyone looks at that, it's a physicaling disaster. so when we, the general people, give money to the cost, they squander it. things are ridden with fraud and medicaid. yet when we keep the money and

spend it, it's spent more efficiently and better. if we spend it silly, then that's our fault. but when the government spend silly, they ask for more money. it's just ludicrous. let's give the most money and have them spend it more efficiently than we can. >> can you base the case forecast hikes to why the president's budget might help our economy get move something. >> absolutely. what the president is calling for is closing tax loopholes which cause some individuals and businesss to unfairly pay lower amount of tax than they're otherwise obviously getted to do. using that money to invest in our real economic problem, restoring growth to the labor market so we have reduced unemployment and growing wages for everyone. that's the true thing that you need. you don't get there from tax cuts. we've seen that historically. it only takes a quick look at common sense to see why. when you have tax cuts and you don't change your spending habits, you are just adding to

your deficit and getting very little in return. so to hear folks at cpac say tax cuts yet again, it's the same solution for every economic condition. >> where is the evidence, christian, that given the evidence, where tax hikes help the economy? if you use bill clinton, i'm counter that he lowered the capital gains tacks. now, i can't think of any other area in history where tax hikes help the economy. that's just not right. >> well, if you use the tax hikes to actually fund job growints. it's not a matter of whether or not it's a tax cut or a hike, it's what you use the money for. >> can you answer gary's question? has there ever been a time when tax hike helped the economic growth? >> the 1960s. >> john kennedy cut tacks. >> linden johnson raised taxes. you had a great period of growth

and prosperity in the 1960 you wanted evidence, there you go. >> you can't. the economic booms, give clinton credit. there was an internet boom. any move he could have been president at the time. the economy could have went to the moovenlt you could have raised tacks to the moon. no one would have cared. it's true, people were investing in stocks and making money then. you could attach the guilt, we would have been okay with it. it's a different time. it's not like that. to tax people trying to get business going, slowing be you cut them off at the knees, take away their tax credits? that makes no sense. >> bush raised the tax, then we had the 90s, clinton on the high end. these were good times with low budget deficits, ultimately. gary's point, it would make sense if they take our money spend a it, it's a question of

are we going to borrow it and head down the green path? if you have to choose between funding the government spending with our tax revenue and borrow money, ideally, again, they have cut the spending and the taxes. that's not reality. european when it will happen. i don't know when they will do that. you can point out when the economy did well. there was a proportional spending cut. i don't know if that ever happened before. it's always widened. >> i disagree. you are saying when i spend a dollar, it's the same as the government spending a dollar. this is not accurate. study after study has shown the multiplier from the government spending. >> i agree with you. all i'm saying is they're going to spend the dollar anyway. are they going to borrow with somebody else or pay with it with tax revenue? that's the only choice. >> we are in agreement. they need to reduce spending. i think the way to -- we're in agreement on that. we'll leave it at that. >> john, a quick last word here.

>> we are all in agreement the guy reduced spending. it's fine on the revenue side. look at the america recovery act where president obama says, give me a trillion dollars and make all these promises that didn't work out. look at infrastructure spending before that and after. that it's relatively flat. you see no spike whatsoever t. government took that money. they're in these shovel-ready jobs, they use it to plug deficits. so they did not spend it towards infrastructure. >> okay. guys. i'm sorry. i know we can keep going we have to end it there. a health care fit, some democrats are facing a tough re-election, pushing the latest obamacare delay. will you pay? neil's gang gone bad at the bottom of the hour, up here first, here we go again. >> on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully invoke my fifth

amendment right and decline to answer. >> still no answer or explanation from the

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you can't afford another mediocre night's sleep. know better sleep with sleep number. board. more details, keep it right here on fox, i'm jamie colby. remember when president obama said this. >> you are saying no corruption, none? >> no, there were some bonehead decisions. >> mass krumgs? >> not mass corruption, not a smidgeen of corruption. >> that former irs official lois

lerner taking the stand again. >> i respectfully submit my fifth amendment right. >> an overwhelming majority of people, they have it right. >> absolutely. i don't understand this lois lerner spoke to the justice, here's the catch, they're a cozy operation rub by an obama do nor, but the congressional investigation is after the truth here. i don't understand why a government employee, within i worked at ibm if my manager told me about a program i botched up, gee, i have to take the fifth. you might terminate me. we are trying to get to the with the toll of this. i can't for the life of me

physical out why a government employee would take the fifth amendment i think it's horrendous. >> the fbi said they won't file charges. >> they haven't interviewed the witnesses, gary is right. we all have a right to know the truth. in theory, they work for us, so we should know. what is she hiding now? she may want to know more. the whole thing becomes a scam. you can't help but there is way more to this than you actually know. >> what do you think? >> if we're after the truth, why in the world hasn't congressman issa given a position. what he wants is political fear. lois lerner despite being a government official is also an american citizen and the constitution says you cannot be compelled to testify if you don't want to. that's her right. whether we like it or not. she had offered to give the information and chairman issa has declined. >> you are talking about darryl

issa, the house oversight chairman. this is all over the place. it sure does seem like there is something hiding here. >> what the bern is alluding to, this is an absolute three-ring circle between issa and couple mins. these two guys embarrassed our country. i expect them to throw water pl balloons at any point. miss lerner said tea party conservatives were hit with extra scrutiny. now, all of a sudden, she takes the fifth and doesn't testify. same with eric holder. there is absolutely no cullpability in washington, d.c. over anything, no truth that will be found in this three ring dog and pony circus the morningmen perpetrate, it will make it worse. >> how do you characterize the doa investigation into this? >> not as hard working as the irs acts. >> here we go. you are never going to get

audited, ever. >> we are close, the irs are trying to bring money as cheaply as possible. i don't think we want to know how this is made. just because they do stuff, it isn't ready to be aired publicly, it doesn't mean the white house told them to do it. let's be honest, there are tea party operations that have a thing to say about the irs. if you abolish the post office sign, i am sure your mail wouldn't get delivered on time i'm sure that will give you a heightened irs agreement amongst itself. >> i think you are safe, though. all right, thanks, guys. my roof, my rules. one new jersey teen didn't like that. so she left. now she's suing her parents for her college tuition. should they have to pay? >> when i was 18-years-old, i

moved out. i turned out okay. i have children that expected i was going to do this. >> if you said no, take it away, that can be an issue. >> can they sue parents? >> she is in school after 18, no, they shouldn't have as to pay for anything. it's all my rules. >> no way, i'm not paying for college, nothing

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. >> it's the court case zoping parents nationwide, a new jersey teen is suing her mom and dad for financial support. she claims they kicked her out of the house. they say she left because she didn't want to follow some ground rules a. judge denying the teen's request for weekly child support. the issue of college tuition is up in the air. tracy, should the parents be forced to pay up? do you see the look on that kid's face? how dare she. shame on the adults who took it and the father of the friend funding the lawsuit and now the attorney who took on the case, come on, send this kid home. smack some sense into her. parents have a minor curfew. these are not tough rules, stop being a brat. your parents have sacrificed their whole life for you. >> christian, should this ever have gone to court?

>> absolutely not t. parents out to be put in mediation. this is ridiculous this has to take up the court time. put the family in a room as along as it takes and have them work it out. >> what would the ruling be from your court? >> i would take them and couple mins and elijah and send all of them with whatever ambulance chasing lawyer took this case. this is horrible. >> jonas, weigh in here. >> this shows new jersey. >> you got two jersey girls here. >> what if your parents verbally agree to send you to an expensive school and they reskinned that rescind that, because you got a tattoo or a

bad boyfriend, contractually, don't they owe you that? >> no. >> you know what, speaking of spending too much money on his dogs. >> i got to give it to a guy -- >> you might want to offer an employee -- >> oh my gorksd i got to get to somebody who raised two kids. gary b, do it. >> i tell you what i made my share of screwups, i probably did do stuff like that. the fact is, jonas, so what. the court protects the kids from emotional and physical abuse. that's kind of where it stops. the parents are hold on parents are sometimese. they screw up a lot. i screwed up a lot more than a zillion times, that itself way it happens. the kids screw up, too. it's not the court's job to come in and say this is how you will parent. i do admire the kid's moxie for doing this, if she had showed that much motivation in going out and earning money, she would

be having a full ride at harvard. there is not the court's job. >> it's their job to enforce contract law. maybe she has a contract. >> it's between the kids and the parents. >> there is no contract. >> she's not a minor anymore. >> i'm giving the last word to the jersey girl. >> she devs nothing. >> thanks, guys, thank you, christian, for joining us. we appreciate it. girl scouts of america, to

. >> predictions and john, you are up first. >> forget russia. frack at home is the answer, stk up 20% in the year i do own it. >> gary b? >> it's had a huge run, give it a while. the rest will pull back before buying. >> your prediction, gary b. >> i just came back from disney world. it is mobs will, buy disney up 30% in the year. >> jonas, i know you are down there in florida, what do you think of disney. >> no way, mobs everywhere in florida. >> all right. tracy, everyone is complaining about the barbie girl scout partnership. the girl scouts first need the money. barbie, her past says be anything, do anything. they have a red headed one now, jonas, your prediction. >> ibm, then jeopardy gand

masters, now, yellow recipes. >> who do you like? >> bam, stocks up 20%. >> john bull or >> bears, ibp. >> on barbie. >> definitely a bull on barbie. the affordable care act has gone through every single branch of the government. it's the law of the land. >> the fact is it's the law of the land. >> affordable care act is the law of the land. >> that doesn't mean we can't change it. >> thousands of health care cancellations will land right before the mid-term election. all bets are off. hi, everyone, i'm neil cavuto, a bunch of democrats on shaky ground helping the white house scrap the plan to put these cancellations off. i mean way off i mean mid-te