transportation company is going to be the way to go forever. >> all right guys. that will do it. more than $2 trillion getting yanked out of the economy. that's exactly what a new study shows will happen from the epa's global warming agenda. they're planning an all-night session this week. is it time to put all of this on ice? welcome everybody to 'forbes on fox". steve, bruce jackson and mike. rich, is it time to put this on hold? $2 trillion. >> that's a lot of money and that really it hads economic growth. the only way we get out of our

problems, whether it's the entitlement bond or getting people out of poverty, we have to have economic growth. to steal $2 trillion is almost a crime. and the irony is the faster economies grow -- or at least america's company -- the more people want clean air and water and all the other kind of stuff. and people come in and do those things anyway. look at the natural gas phenomenon. it didn't take the epa to hammer coal. it took the business owners to really put the hurt on coal. >> steve, $2 trillion for a theory. what do you think? >> i guess i'm the token tree hugger today. it's not a theory, it's real. if you go to nasa, look up the charts, they have century old

data. meanwhile, icecaps, other way. this is not models. this is not nearri r-- theories this is facts. we never went above -- this is human made and it's happening right now. >> by the way, you're not just the only token here. the fact is there's a lot of still discussion unsettled science on this issue. al gore doesn't think so by the way. steve's not alone. let's play a little sound bite. >> i think that these extreme weather events which are now a hundred times more common than 30 years ago are really waking people's awareness all over the world. it comes about, of course, because we continue to put 90 million tons of pollution into the atmosphere every day. >> he's saying that all these catastrophic events mean that $2

trillion is a good investment. listen to what warren buffett said. he's much more friendly with the liberals. he doesn't see these catastrophic events. he says there's been so much talk about climate, the last ten years have been unusual. the answer is, they haven't. now, he sees every day these insurance claims. so who's right? >> buffett's obviously right. markets are information machines pricing everything including the possibility of future calamity. the fact that coastal properties continue to rise in value is a powerful market signal that dploeb l warming -- global warming is a massive hoax. >> he deals with practicalities.

he deals with bottom line numbers. he hasn't seen the numbers that al gore is talking about. >> he's also making a lot of money with the fracking and this railroad. he's also making money off of the fact that the stock market is doing really well. you have a lot of food companies out there that are worried about this and their making plans. there's jobs that are created there and they're worried about climate change and rightly so. >> all right. so, is buffett just talking his book? >> no. he owns insurance companies. that's what they do. they risk model. i get that, it sounds scary. the thing is that these models are built by human beings. i tend to personally think that yes, there's climate change. i also know that these models

are built by human beings. the cbo gets their forecasting wrong all the time. weathermen get it wrong all the time. we should shift the conversation away to help our coastal cities and that would be the way to go. call it making our coastal cities safe. call it infrastructure spending. maybe that's the way to go. >> it's not only the government, by the way. some people in the private sector -- apple ceo was just getting flak because he's spending a lot of apple's money on it. defended it by saying ifu only want roi reasons, you should get out of the stock. they said, you shouldn't be spending our money on climate change because it's not a settled science.

>> what i mind is the government doing it with taxpayer money and they don't use cost benefit analysis. there's no ed out there that any of this money that you cited at the start of the show is there to reverse it. the president getting up there and says, he's the model of the future, and a year later, the company's bankrupt. certainly the private sector is the way to go, not the government sector. >> steve, i want to go back to you. you've got the $2 trillion out there that the government wants to spend of our money. are you convinced we won't get a return on investment? >> if you don't tackle the problem now, when is the right time. with china and other developing countries coming online, everyone getting cars, this is going to get worse and worse. if you don't fix it now, there's not going to be an economy to sai. >> you bring up an interesting

point. rich, what about the chinese? they are spending money. they're polluters. but they're spending money on trying to clean their pollution a little bit, right? >> yeah. hey, look, the rest of the world wants our kind of affluence. it's good for the ecology because it creates a middle class that becomes concerned about these things rather than fixated on simply trying to get enough food and water. i want to say something quickly about al gore. his side always claims science and then al gore throws out some ridiculous number. a hundred times? where did he pull that out of? >> and he's never called out on it. >> we do. >> we call him on it. >> i hear what rich is saying. the thing is this debate is

getting so heated, it's like jumping into a pool of live hair dryers with these guys. you can't even disagree with anybody unless you get your head chopped off. let's protect the flood zones, don't insure people there, get them to move out to higher ground. >> does this $2 trillion have anywhere to go? are there any political legs for this? >> i don't think so. and rich hits it right. you have to have growth and then you get environmental enhancements. beyond that, people talk a big game about the deniers. what can be more anti-growth than embracing energy forms that last more than the 12th century. russia using its military might. china is beefing up theirs.

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we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can s, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. back here at 1:00 p.m. eastern. i'll send you back to 'forbes on fox". the world is on edge as russia uses its military might in the ukraine. on the same day this week, china announced increase in budget, president obama announces he wants to slash defense spending

here. is that wise? >> no, it's not wise. we're talk about dramatic cuts in defense spending. it's not driving the debt crisis in the united states. entitlements are. we're got north korea, iran improving the range of their missles. our defense is a force for stability and peace. people always equate it to china. china -- china's the enron of government bookkeeping. they mask their defense spending saying it is space spending. >> with all this stuff going on, the world very dangerous stuff, wouldn't it be a terrible time to slash defense spending? >> i don't think so. the reality is we spend more on

defense than the rest of the world combined. they talk about reducing the burden of government, but they are promoting very big government and global dependency on government. i'd argue, it would make the world a safer place. >> it's clear that the american people don't want to slash defense spending. the latest poll shows by a good majority, 59% oppose cutting the number of u.s. army troops. >> picking between two smart people like lizzy and john and a real dilemma, but i'm going to go with her on this one. it created the perfect situation for aggression by adolph hitler and italy. i realize the defense contracting can be very bloated. it's a cost-plus basis which

invites a lot of bloated, packed spending. but we can never, ever afford to lose the military technology race. >> we get fat and happy and lazy, we think that the world is fine, then they take advantage of it and we're caught with our pants down. >> first, we got to remember, we're coming out of two wars here that we're exiting. and the obama has done a good job, they've reallocated part of our naval fleet to the pacific ocean where we haven't had wars. i've come from the school of thought where if we already have enough nuclear bombs to blow up the world several times over, why do we need anymore? >> mike, again, it's a dangerous world out there.

if we spend money now, perhaps it won't blow out of control. >> you do it to protect your country and your alleys. i'm going to go to the late '70s and early '80s. >> rich doesn't remember. >> i remember when barack carter was president and the economy was totally ruined. when reagan came in, he rebuilt the economy first. under obama, we have a terrible recovery and a weak economy. first and foremost, you got to rebuild the economy. that's what reagan used to bring down the soviet empire. >> the fact is that reagan dramatically increased defense spending. the spending increases can be seen on various graphs. there's just no question that he increased at the same time that

he was cutting domestic spending, he was dramatically increasing the military. and that led to us winning the cold war. >> having a strong economy in many ways or having a strong information economy is almost as important as having a strong military. but i think putting that aside for a moment, we have very real national security threats. the fact is there are places in the defense budget. i was just reading about the needs program from 1995. this was a missle program. 15 years later, it was found not to be effective. yet the president put $400 million into the budget for this program. >> there are places to cut everywhere. there's no question that you can find places. i have full disclosure.

i have a son in the marine co s corps. so i'm not a neutral observer, but shouldn't we keep personnel? >> by the way, your son is fantastic and so is your wife. that's what was scary, the fact that the number of soldiers is going down. that was a thing that was a real eyebrow raising moment. that's when people start to debate, hey, are we making the right decisions here. >> john, my son who never lies, tells me dad, the marines don't waste money. >> i don't believe him that they don't waste money. but that doesn't mean in the bu bur rockcy. if you want to make the world a safer place, open up trade to everyone around the world.

>> maybe -- maybe you can do both. maybe you can increase trade and keep defend spending. here's another eye popping revelation, the government says it has no clue about how many uninsured are getting covered by obamacare. obamacare. why some here say that's another ...return on investment wall isn't a street... isn't the only return i'm looking forward to... for some, every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage. which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college. our commitment to current and former military members and their families is without equal.

okay. here is the question that will decide if obamacare is a success. how many uninsured are buying

it? after all, it was meant for them. a new study says it's 27%, but the white house says it has no idea. that's really hard to believe. >> right. and knowing the fact that president obama lied for years about obamacare. look, here's the deal. what they don't want us to know about is the fact that less healthy people are signing up than they said would sign up, which is going to raise the cost pool of obamacare and raise the cost to taxpayers. they were counting on them to lower the overall cost and that's not happening. >> now, they don't even ask when people sign up for obamacare, they're not even asking if you were insured before. >> it is complicated, that's for sure. eople signing up. the health insurance companies who people are buying these

policies from have been reporting on their earnings that the number of people signing up are younger than they thought they would be. so that's a good sign. the government just said last week that 9 million people are eligible for medicaid. that's despite the fact that a lot of the red states decided -- >> it's not what it's about. it's about private insurance. for this thing to work, they're going to have to have 40% of the new ones be young and healthy. >> getting back to the point of the uninsured, half of them are not even paying and affo affordability sticker shock is an issue. we need health reform inspector general right now overseeing it. >> that was the point of obamacare. >> well, you know, it's the mathematical equivalent of

suggesting that two plus two equals a thousand. because the numbers don't add up, the whole law is being discred discredited. >> has it already failed? >> of course, the cbo announced last month that in addition to encouraging business to cut back on jobs, it's going to result in 31 million americans not having health insurance by 2024. >> ten seconds. >> does it really count as a win when you throw somebody off insurance through obamacare and then they're forced to sign up? is that a net new subscriber. >> we report. you decide folks. >> coming up, how these three yun americans could be telling america the entitlement nation is already here. but first, how would you like to take that tax refund and

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>> love it baby. thank you for watching everybody. having a wonderful weekend. keep it right here. we continue with ericananananan" >> ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. >> wrong president kennedy, now it's what can your country do for you. it created an entitlement nation. suing your parents for child support to the dude we brought you last week. it's teaching our kids to be takers instead of makers. jfk would be ashamed of his party now. what does this say about the law when even big labor says it's