and helps dissolve stains, cleaning in a better way than brushing with toothpaste. that's why i recommend using polident. [ male announcer ] polident. cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. "the willis report." good night. ♪ ♪ neil: welcome, everybody. and i promise you we would start digging into these obamacare numbers, we did. and you are not going to like what we found out. that 7.1 million enrolling figure the president was crowing about on tuesday, try closer to one million. not one million fewer enrollees, one million total enrollees. one million net new enrollees for the president's new health care law. that's it. and by the way, we're being generous even with that because we're not including the millions of americans who have lost their health care coverage. just factoring those numbers in we're actually talking millions fewer with health care coverage

now. but that's another story. for now let's focus on how we arrived at the thurms that bring us to tonight's lead story, because i have the guy who did a whole bunch of this crunching. of that 7.1 million who supposedly signed up for obamacare, two-thirds, two out of three of them, already had insurance. they were just switching over. that leaves the remaining one-third or about 2.4 million americans as net new enrollees, newly sured on the government exchanges. but even that 2.4 million figure might itself be misleading since early indications are that fewer than half of them have already paid their premiums. they signed up for coverage, but they have not paid for that coverage. it's sort of like going on amazon.com and putting items on your car but not yet purchasing the items in that car. that knocks the number of newly insured down to 1 .2 million. that is 1.2 million net new

paying enrollees in the government health care program. not the 7.1 million figure that the administration is touting. we should emphasize here the white house says our figures don't acunt for the four million plus americans who they say have signed up for medicaid coverage thanks to obamacare and the more than three million younger americans now getting coverage through their parents' plans, again thanks to obamacare. unfortunately, that's kind of like comparing apples to orange toes, and in the case of younger enrollees, it is still very difficult to separate out which is why we also did not include as i mentioned earlier the some six million americans who lost their coverage outright as a result to have new law. the you just kept that out, we wanted to keep the numbers straight, the comparisons simple and the math logical which wrings us to the very logical dr. david -- [inaudible] the folks who started crunching the new numbers and found them in big variance with the

president's 7.1 million number. you know, doctor, it's amazing looking at it how different it is when you were coming and getting down to that final number, were you surprised it was so different? >> well, not really because i'd been looking at this for a long time, and we know that rough lu up to 20 percent of the people who have signed up have not paid their first premium which reduces the total number down to five and a half million. and then of the newly insured about, like you said, one-third people who were uninsured have signed up for -- neil: by the way, how did you get to that number? the white house always said the tops may be 10, may be 15%, certainly not upwards of a third. how did you discover it was much higher? >> el, basically, the -- well, basically, the rand corporation says a third of the people in their latest survey said about a third of the people who have

signed up for insurance on the exchange were previously uninsured, and that would be 2.4 million. but other research shows those who were newly insured, only half of those, as you mentioned, paid their premium. so you get down to 1.2 million. and the other thing to keep this mind here is that the congressional budget office said that the exchanges would reduce the number of uninsured by six to seven million. the obama administration went along with those numbers. so, you know, with a number of only 1.2 million newly insured, in that sense, you know, the goals have not been met, and the obamacare exchanges are something of a failure. neil: now, the mainstream media won't pick up on this, david, despite this we tried to keep the math very clean, comparison apples to apples, did not get into the millions of americans who have lost insurance or even addressed on flip side the president arguing that many have moved on to medicaid and whatever, so they really would count on that. we wanted to make sure the comparisons were clean.

now the administration is going to argue bottom line that more people who were not insured are insured than was the case before. but we have 46 million americans who technically do not have health insurance. if in the end we're talking now one million have picked it up, do we still have 45 million who don't have it? >> yeah. and the be you include, say, the medicaid numbers, it might actually be, you might have reduced the number of up insured even further. but you have to ask at what cost. that's a relatively small number of the uninsured who now have coverage, and this has been a very costly law from the taxes to the people who lost insurance last year to the people who have to pay much higher premiums on the exchange to people who can't find coverage that covers their doctors on into, you know, what we're looking forward to, you know? the employer mandate which is going to have a big impact on the job market. you know, right now i think the costs of this law far outweigh

the benefits. neil that'll but if you think, let's say you weren't concerned about nasty little details like costs -- [laughter] and you wanted to look at whether it was worthwhile. if the whole idea of this was to insure everybody in this country or most everybody in the end we'll still be left -- the best case scenario i've seen is we're going to have around 30-35 million americans who were not insured, then that was kind of the figure that was bandied about as they were cooking up this bill. and be in the end, that's what we're left with, that many uninsured. so if the idea was to insure everybody in the country and we upended the system that was working for 90% of the folks in this country who had coverage, albeit with some, you know, problems here and there, i'm not minimizing them. for the 10% who roughly did not and now so many of that 10% are passing on this, what was this for? i think this was probably more for the purposes of political control, of trying to get, you

know, more middle class people a new entitlement and lining up votes so that, you know, the party that supported this, the democrats, would win future elections. i think that was the ultimate purpose of this, but you're absolutely right. i mean, this is a very hi price to pay for a very minimal reduction in insurance or minimal reduction in the uninsured. and, yeah, that 30-35 million number of people who will still remain uninsured is probably too low given, you know, given how this first year has turned out. neil: david, thank you very much. fascinateing study, again, i urge you folks to go to our web site, we crunched this all down for you. in a country of 318 million people, 46 million uninsured, maybe you knock it down to 45 million. the bottom line, the bottom line is that we're still having a lot of people uninsured and a lot of people w are wondering why the heck we went through et. so is there an alternative to this, to any of this? to hear the president tell it,

republicans love ripping his health care plan, but god forbid they come up with one of their own. actually, mr. president, they've come up with at least four plans of their own, and we've got the one that quite possibly is getting the most buzz, because bobby jindal says his plan costs less than yours, it does a lot more for everybody else. but not before nancy's awkward moment. ever since the former spker said the founding fathers would love the health care law, no less than benjamin franklin tweeted this: nancy, go fly a kite. [laughter] all right, not really. but i had some of you going, didn't i? some of the tweets we got were worse. a lot worse. after this. when folks in the lower 48 think about what they get from alaska,

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attorney suing. chris horner from the energy and environmental legal institute. chris, what were they doing? >> well, quite clearly, they're treating different parties differently under a law that doesn't permit disparate treatment, and it's also quite obvious thanks to some further digging we've done that they're singling out groups with whom they're not particularly pleased. neil: how does the epa do that versus the irs? i know the irs being the strong man with taxes and being intimidating can do it, but how does epa do it? >> right. they're throwing financial hurdles this the way of nonprofit groups to bar them from fulfilling their mission. for example, we operate on in the course of reck -- the courts have recognized this, i mean, they know that nonprofit groups make their bones on obtaining public records and broadly disseminating them. that's a large part of our mission. if you're the wrong kind of group, epa has decided to block your request for information by delaying and denying you fee

waiver which we're granted under the law. we're preferable to the media under the law. we don't have to pay copying to the extent anybody copies anymore. they're denying fee waivers costing us, charging, demanding thousands of dollars in fees, yes, but costing us tens of thousands of dollars over and again this staff and attorney time making us go through needless administrative appeals and suing over and over again causing, of course, years of delay. neil: now, were any other groups subjected to this type of treatment? remember at the irs i think it was like 600-6, i think, and the six left-leaning groups were saying, well, we were targeted too, which we could never find who those six were. we think maybe they didn't exist. but do you know of any other groups besides those like your own that were targeted? >> like our own, no. but i do know the competitive enterprise institute on whose behalf i discovered the identity account that led them to put the

pedal to the metal on blocking us groups, the eelu, the free market environmental law clinic have been particularly singled out because they, we, do more foia-ing than any other group and have more broadly disseminating information to the great public education. neil: but, look, was a lot of this happening before the irs stuff came to light, post the irs stuff coming to light? >> well, some of it was occurring, but it clearly escalated. neil: wait a minute, i keep jumping. was it escalating after the irs? because that would be intriguing right there, that they were not really humbled or, you know, thrown back by all the fuss the irs stuff was causing. >> right. and to the extent these groups are working in concert around the same page, it's clear that they're all seeking to b to instruct access to -- obstruct access to records and seeking to penalize groups they don't like. they're giving overnight service to green pressure groups, for

example, and unredacted documents. meanwhile, they redact everything in some cases with us and make us sue. but it stepped up about two years ago, and i started asking more questions, and it led to information that makes it quite plain. by the way, i'd like to tell you now i'm aware the office of inspector general has been tasked with inquiring on this. i have interviewed with them, and they let the cat out of the bag that they are, quote, randomly not going to consider these groups that have just sued even though the allegations were by no means random. they were very specific. in this seems to be another whitewash. neil: they're not even going to give you the time of day. >> no, that's quite plain. [laughter] by the way, we'll put a chalkboard on a piece of paper writing ten times like bart simpson -- [laughter] and they'll deny it and say you didn't broadly disseminate the -- they know it's from us, so they stonewall. neil: chris horner, thank you very much. keep us posted. incredible. >> thank you, neil. neil: coming up, jib call the in a justifity -- jindal in a jiffy

and the health care alternative that's making democrats jittery. what bobby jindal does in his plan that the president never tried with his plan. but first, minority leader nancy pelosi said what? a sound bite you have to hear for yourself because all the founding fathers have come back from the grave to say, madam speaker, you're a nut. unfortunately, you can't see any of them because they're ghosts. fortunately, you can see the judge, because unless he louises still more -- loses still more damned weight, he is not. [laughter] ♪ [ male announcer ] how could switchgrass in argentina, change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the aerospace industry in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses

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>> suggestions that this was a covert program are wrong. congress funds democracy programming for can cuba to help empower cubans to access more information and to strengthen civil society.

neil: what? strengthen civil society by urging social unrest in that society via an online manufactured rage? the press secretary's talking about how feds here set up a phony social network reportedly encouraging young cubans to hold demonstrations against their government there. what these cubans didn't know is that the people behind this were collecting lots of data on them. judge, adios mio. what the heck? >> this is a bit of a aide scratcher. if this was covert, then it requires a written approval and authorization by the president and written approval and authorization by the house select committee on intelligence and the senate committee on intelligence. we don't know if it got that. if it was covert, the documents would have been classified. suddenly i they show up on a freedom of information act request filed by a reporter for the associated press. if it was not covert, then the

congress would have had to have voted on it, and there doesn't seem to be a record of congress having voted on it. it is exactly the way you described it. it looks like an innocent twitter feed not permitted or authorized by the cuban government. encouraging young people to communicate with each other and rise up against the government. that sounds like something the intelligence community would be doing. so is this if fish or is it foil -- this fish or is it fowl? is it american aid for -- i forget the group that congress would have authorized or that jay carney said it was, or is this the intelligence community trying to foment revolution and not take credit or blame. neil: but it sounds like to foment unrest, of course, that was an unmitigated disaster. john kennedy said this is on me, i screwed up. but you're saying at least in this case it would have had to have gone through the president, right? >> yes. either way --

neil: what if it didn't? what if he was unabare? >> then we are serious issues with criminal behavior on the part of the intelligence community, because they would have spent money that was unauthorized. and they would -- neil: but if the goal was to bring democracy to cuba, let's say that's ostensibly the goal. >> they certainly can't establish a program that's not authorized. now, it may not be the fault of the agents in the field, they may have thought there was authority, but at some point in that chain of command if the president didn't authorize it and the house and senate committee didn't know about it, it's unlawful. look, the real question is, is this the way you spread democracy? or do you spread democracy by free trade like we broke up the soviet union? neil: well, you have to break through any way you can, right? >> selling blue jeans and washing machines ander is owes. neil: i want to get your reaction to this. >> there have been burps in the road, but they've only been turbulence. they have not been obstacles to

the american people having a healthier lives. our founders wants life, a healthier life, liberty, the freedom to pursue their happiness, not job lost. neil: that was nancy pelosi more or less saying our founding fathers would have wanted this health care law, and i could just see george washington check here, check here, damn, am i covered for this? really? >> claiming that suddenly washington and madison and jefferson and adams were socialists that wanted to redistrict wealth? i think it's a gross misreading of a selected portion of the declaration of independence. i've got to tell you, i sat next to her on a plane flight recently, and as soon as i sat down, she looked at me and said, oh, can we agree not to talk politics? we had a perfectly lovely conversation for the duration of the -- neil: what'd you talk about? >> >> who our mutual friends were in sports. it was football season, and she was in love with the san francisco 49ers. neil: that's a long flight. were you coming across country?

>> no, it was just d.c. to new york. but she is dead wrong to suggest that the framers wanted socialized medicine or anything that even resembles the affordable care act. neil: she was equating happiness and all that to health is what they she was saying. >> well, happiness in the declaration of independence as she interprets it is to a great leap. happiness to the person that meant that meant freedom from government. neil: did you hear what ben franklin wrote in hey, nancy, go fly a kite. [laughter] >> if he was around, that's what he would say to her. neil: they march arm and arm, somehow we're mixing our causes here. and we're equating what the founding fathers were pursuing versus what they're pursuing now. were our founding fathers into no government or government that just helps the people? how would you define it?

>> i think they were into a pin mall government, and the constitution was written to are restrain the government and to guarantee maximum individual liberty. mrs. pelosi believes the opposite, that the constitution was written to liberate the government so it can take from those who work and give to those who don't. it's too radically different -- two radically different views of america, but she cannot claim that the founders' view is the same as hers. somewhere along the line it -- neil: but the founders could look at social security and all these other big problems. >> because they bequeathed us a society in which we were free to take care of ourselves. the original constitution expressly forbade the income tax, didn't permit the redistribution of wealth. those things didn't happen until the 20th century. finish. neil: but they did invent the internet, no? >> no. neil: okay, gash cha. >> and she didn't either. neil: i've got to ask you more about this plane conversation. >> oh, my goodness, it was so

funny when she looked at me and said can we agree not to talk politics? [laughter] neil: have my tuna sandwich, judge. >> she was utterly delightful. neil: when we come back, you say a lie often enough, people start believing it. thing is, it's not true and never has been. republicans have lots of alternative plans to the democrats' big one, only none of them can get brought up in the senate because of a certain big majority leader. enter the republican governor who's just done a run around

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il: you can add the fact that they don't have a point to risk he syou cankeepou can see that >> he said he can keep your doctor if you like your doctor. he is going to cut premiums. premiums actually went up according to the cbo. then he said he was against the mandate before he put it is part of the bill.

if he had a look the american people in the face and promised them. lou: premiums and there's no way this no matter have passed any other what s from the press secretary saying that the employer mandate will be one of the first things to go. he's talking about obamacare and i don't think the employer mandate will go into effect. it's a small part of the law. it will be one of the first things to go. >> is amazing it is amazing how democrats are running away from this law. because i think it will cost them several things. we need to repeal this law. it's about law. neil: what bill clinton is saying is there's a lot of good. if you keep running away from the bad, you are missing out on the good of coverage of pre-existing conditions, people will think you're just phony. >> the problem is that the

president was articulating mess. and so they are saying that we don't want to, we don't need the mandate, but there are things we can do. >> my plan would lower health care costs, it would help folks with pre-existing conditions. so it does several things. sixty different points. for example hamas standard deductions environ health care even if you don't have employer-provided coverage. you can keep your health care. you can keep it up you move across state lines, lawsuit reform and we save seniors money and premium support, save your money, saves taxpayers money. neil: the volume that reduces discounts. isn't that the idea behind the

president's plan? >> the idea behind the president's plan is that the government knows better than you. the fundamental difference is that we trust patients to make decisions working with their ears and their providers. he's basically telling the american people that you can't buy it. 4.7 million cancellation notices last year alone. we trust the american people, local government, it's to give them flexibility and medicaid. we trust competition. neil: no offense to your estimate. neil: city you recognize anyonen with the president's plan, we are going to have 35 million americans who will never have health care coverage.

so we are going to have about the same number of coverage. >> the recent gallup poll number was a little bit higher than where they would in the first quarter when president bush took over. >> so what about the seventh .1 million figure? >> they don't tell you how many were previously insured, how many paid premiums. >> by the way, we did a study on this. >> even if it were 7 million. the threat of the irs, they forced a million people to do this. if they threaten imprisonment for justice, you ask a very good question. we asked this drives down costs and health the most winnable. but i don't think that they needed to do anything. they are saying that we could do as much. but then they will all spend more than we do. they will try to give moral things away from the government 's be three months of pre-existing conditions, they

want coverage. does your plan have not? >> yes. it does it in three ways. helped us set up high risk insurance. they are reducing premiums, we have guaranteed affordability. we have to exhaust employer coverage before you're in the individual market. and we give people any way to buy insurance. right now if you want volume to drive down costs, why not give people the chance, whether through their employers, unions, churches, social clubs and we let people buy insurance across the state lines. if you get a more affordable plan, you can buy a plant from another state and vice versa. so absolutely this helps people of pre-existing conditions and drives down cost and most importantly entrust the patient. saying that we want you and your doctor making decisions. not insurance bureaucrats.

neil: one a lot of you gathered together a couple of months back , you had said that it would be impossible to repeal this thing a way that things are right now. which may or may not be true. i have some tea partiers the day we have just given up the fight. can you clarify that with a republican governor's position? saying that we recognize the math and the calculus in the senate. with the president still in the white house. or were you saying down the road we have a republican senate and things change? >> i have never said that. i always do that we had to repeal the entire program. neil: so you're not a camp that said too late? >> absolutely not. my plan repeals all the taxes, does not restore any of them, all of that. neil: so what about when the president goes back and says this will be much bigger success

if not for guys that were locked in at. >> it's not just bad execution, but a bad design. obamacare is a great example of big government doesn't work. all of the things that he promised, it hasn't happened. doctors were leaving the program. many of them left. people now find what their plan that they kick at the hospitals or the doctors they want. it is yet another example of big government not working. they can blame us for failures, but this is something that gone wrong. neil: are you surprised how much fellow governor chris christie has tumbled? >> he has said that he has taken responsibility. neil: i know this, but are you surprised? >> i think that he continues to do a good job. >> he is never going to be president? >> he has done what he says he's going to do. neil: but if he is he ever going to be president? >> let's win the war not before

2014 election. neil: you are not going to go on o'reilly, are you? [laughter] >> let's win the war of ideas first. neil: okay, that was a mean thing to say. governor bobby jindal, always a pleasure. thank you so much. i just want you guys to know that there are alternative plans out there. meanwhile, it will be something that i told you so. >> we are looking for what we had in the last 10 your fitness plan. neil: do not treadmill on me. we, according toa new and very revealing report, this is wrong and this is very right. so i've rounded it up. some of my favorite

neil: a fox business alert for you. slow the heck down. it turns out that a lot of this jogging is sending you to an early grave. it actually increases the risk of heart attack and stroke and even death. i have been dying to find a study like this for years just to share with guests like you. so what do we make of this? >> i have to say that studies have shown that it is a correlation between increased rate and obesity. and year-over-year membership

has increased by 5%. yet it has not made a dent. so many rely on exercise and it's a big part of that equation of what we are eating. neil: so many are urging their clients to watch what they eat. it is a balance and many think that we are not active enough. one study showed that people that festively exerciser didn't exercise at all were at greater risk for death. moderate exercise did show a decreased risk of death. and so here is the thing. you know, many people are

working out seven days a week. i'm not an exercise plan. i think we are over reliant on all of this cardio that's not a resulting in greater help. so here it exercising to lose weight, when you overdo the cardio, it stimulates your appetite. you are ravenous. and it's almost impossible to stick with because they are so hungry. and so they indulge in an 800-calorie dessert even though they burn 200 calories and a gem. three 1-800-calories is a lot?

[laughter] >> yes, that's an average. but you shouldn't focus on what you eat, eating is about 80% of the big picture. and i always say that exercise and diet is better. and then there is exercise also improves immunity. it improves your mood and a risk of heart attack or and if you are a healthy body weight, you are at greater risk of death than you are being overweight so

while i agree, diet is the leader. about 80%, up to 95% of our health relies on it. while we should exercise moderate is better than none and actually better than too much exercise. so once again in this field of health, it comes to moderation. neil: okay. when we come back, all of you owners of the toyota prius, no matter how many miles you are getting a gallon, you are still what does everything mean to you? with the quicksilver cash back card from capital one, it means unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase, every day. it doesn't mean, "everything.. as long as you buy it at theas station." it doesn't mean, "everything...

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neil: in tonight's business blitz. all of you hybrid dance have been kicked to the curb. they are considering charging drivers by the mile. not looking at raising the gas tax, but instituting a driving tax from the more you drive, the more you pay. can you believe this? the whole point of buying this was to avoid the pain out of harm. so we have liz macdonald on this. >> yes, what is it noxious about this whole thing, and i'm sorry to use that word, the rationale. the rational from the state legislators say driving is just like picking up your garbage or getting water. it's not like a utility. what about the poor people they can't afford to live in a city in north carolina and have lived outside of the another have to pay a by the mile to drive in to

work? i do think it's really unfair. >> what do you think? >> north carolina doesn't have a negligible gas tax. that is probably fifth or sixth in the country. behind places like new york and connecticut and california. my question is where is the money going. and every time they keep asking for more, how do we know that they will appropriate at? >> we need this infrastructure, whatever they are talking about, any of these other states, show me what you have done collectively in states and across the country. we spend billions on this because as far as i can tell you get better than $100 billion per year to cover this stuff. everything from the state and federal level. did you know that? but i mean, what the hack?

>> north carolina is looking to raise revenue in my opinion is that they should create more jobs, which is something they have been doing. so just the other day they must be doing something good because all of these big financial institutions are creating jobs over there right now. but there's an educated with workforce, lower cost of living. but smart people eventually catch on to things like that and they are not looking to pay higher taxes. we just had the higher tax increase in history. and there were many that feel that we need to pay more taxes right now. >> the bottom line is that we are going to put in a lot. >> but where is the lockbox for any higher taxation two you know, i would argue that the

cost that is needed to track this tax would wipe out any tax revenues. >> the perverse thing about all of this is that every single dollar that a politician is not willing to cut his having to justify their job and it is just wrong. you can't get anyone to make the right decision. >> they are going to get a lot of money. but what do they do it at? >> we know what they're going to do with that. it's nothing that's going to be anything that benefits the people they are that are going to work another driving on those roads. it's going to be the politicians they get their pockets lined. neil: nancy pelosi seems to know what ben franklin would want. it does not mean that the health care law would drive with any of our founding fathers.

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to read and consider carefully before investing. neil: what is the deal? what is the deal those guys are getting down and dirty. yesterday we discussed a grassroots campaign to get rob ford out as mayor of toronto. and every one of the crackpots that i has been featured look like villains from a bad movie. so what part of this guy isn't going and it certainly would've been that he would've been kidnapped by someone and left tied up in a baskin robbins by now. so don't give those billboard guys any ideas.

i have no idea who these people are, that anyone better than that is an underused slogan. therefore they did a lot of good things for the city. keeping taxes down, a rare find among the elite. which is why expect the mayor is surviving this. switching gears now, what our founding fathers really want obamacare? nancy pelosi said yes, they went. the best as i can recall, the only reference i heard ben franklin make was something about only to bed, early to rise. i don't recall adding a government agency to that to make sure that folks heeded his advice. do you think the founders would have even wanted in people is the? the founding fathers would have no idea what obamacare is, it runs contrary to everything they believed in, one person says.

and glenn on facebook says i don't think the founding fathers would agree with a lot of what is happening now. plus, i think the founding fathers would've come back and saw the likes of. , you know, the king isn't that bad at all. you're a good point. so getting a lot of you thinking basic news on basic cable. mary says she appreciates this north of the border. in the 60-year-old grandma is always understanding. that's all i can say. all right, denis says who would have thunk this? and this from don.

ismail and incompetent interviewer or what? not completely, some days, just mostly. keep >> people are going to do it whether you like it or not. >> seeking immediate action. >> gambling is popular. >> it has negative consequences that began to ripple through society. >> my poker game would be a crime in half the state. the one we have people arrested for gambling when it is okay for the state to sell lottery tickets.