people out there are spending money. i think the stock makes a good move. >> gary? >> just be careful of this gt advance. i think the froth is coming off this market. >> be profitable, be well. see you next week. ft. hood, texas, in shock from yet another senseless shooting. folks asking how to prevent it from happening again. the last time tragedy struck in 2009, the pentagon spent money on a sweeping review. it resulted in beefed-up security measures and more restrictions for firearms on base. sadly, wasn't enough. is the answer to do more of the same or try something else? this is "forbes on fox." the usual reaction in washington, spend more money,

but is that the answer? >> i think it would be a big mistake. that's in no way meant to minimize the tragedy too took place at ft. hood. ultimately we live in a world where there are mentally unbalanced individuals who will try to bring us harm. this will take place no matter what we do. they took precautions and they didn't work. we should be reluctant infringing on freedoms. no law or legislation is going to change this. >> after 2009 new security measures taken included adding more restrictions for weapons carried on base. issuing security personnel with more kinds of weapons, et cetera. that wasn't enough. >> i want to say and i know i'm speaking for everybody, we have these people in our hearts, the lost loved ones. we are rooting for those who are hopefully healing in the

hospital. i was speaking with an ex-military friend of mine. these bases are cities. there are a lot of people there. the military is doing their best to bring this sort of thing to an end. i wonder how much they can do. they are just people trying their hardest. even though it's a military base these terrible things happen. >> maybe they are doing too much in certain areas. there was a survivor of the 2009 shooting who spoke on fox earlier this week. >> we are trained to be able to operate these weapons and make good decisions with the weapons. guns don't kill people. people kill people. if you're allowed to carry the weapons on the base, that's a deterrent. >> he is saying one of those new restrictions that was imposed after 2009 was a mistake. the military should be able to carry more weapons on base. >> i think it will be time for a

conversation about changing this policy. if anybody should be allowed to carry a gun, it seems someone on a military base should be. that seems to be the only thing that slows down or thwarts these horrible efforts. i reviewed an independent study of what happened at the navy yard shooting in september. their findings said there's been too much emphasis pouring money securing the perimeter of the base and not enough looking who is coming on to the base and eliminating a lot of the security clearances people don't need to have. >> if i had to choose between a politician in washington and a guy who survived the shooting. he was shot multiple times himself. i would choose him rather than the politician. >> i would like to remind viewers you have skin in the game. your son is a marine. i know you feel this issue very deeply. i think rick unger pointed out

the main difficulty in all this. military bases are very large. they are cities. they occupy a lot of square miles. this is not going to be easy. predictive behavior is science fiction today. it's rapidly evolving into something where we can probably predict violence more accurately. that would encroach on people's liberties, obviously. we are talking about the military and not civilian life. >> the families who have sons and daughters on military bases, they don't want political correctness. they just want their folks safe. >> that's right. you're right. i hear what you're saying. our hearts go out to the families of those victims here. they want their sons and daughters safe. this touches such a deep core. there is such a shock around stories like this and a sense of

vulnerability. tougher background checks. there are people who are unstable. the clearances need to be double and triple checked constantly. these are people with no political agenda. they crack under pressure and that's heartbreaking, as well. >> as much sympathy as we have for people with mental problems, perhaps they shouldn't be on the base. the key is keeping people safe. the key is not necessarily extending a welcoming hand to everybody. the key is keeping our personnel safe. >> if you want to seek safety, react not to headlines but to statistics. the statistics are clear. among noncombat deaths, accidents outnumber homicides 10-1. you are not going to see a congressional hearing about a speeding jeep that rolled over and killed somebody. we shouldn't overreact to

headlines. i think rich's idea of some massive data base that will identify tragedies before they happen is pure fantasy. >> if you do have skin in the game, if your folks are there, you do react very strongly to a repeated shooting. this is the same military base. if they can't get that right, they can't get anything right. >> i think bill baldwin has it right. we can have all sorts of data bases hoping to fight this. there are a lot of unbalanced people out there. i see one in front of my office building every day who screams at the skies on a daily basis. if we are going to incarcerate people we think are a potential risk, we are going to live in a society we don't like. >> we are not talking about society. we are talking about a military base. can't we get those screaming mad people off the military bases?

>> it's such a tough area. david, you have skin in the game what you you have a son in the military. everybody has skin in the game because unfortunately this is happening in every major city in this country almost every day. i don't know what the right answer is. i take the irony of the sergeant who pointed out these are the best trained people with a gun you are going to find anywhere. we do know more guns can lead to bad situations sometimes. a tough one. >> i've got to say, sabrina, soldiers are trained better than anybody in the united states. they know how to defend themselves. they should be allowed to do that with the right tools, should they not? >> i agree. i think there is something ironic about a military base not allowing people to carry weapons. we need to be careful when we walk that line about talking about people's mental stability because the reality is this man

had been seeing a psychiatrist on the base. he had been under care. there were no red flags. there was nothing that suggested this man would snap. unfortunately, we just want to be careful we don't say someone struggling with depression is going to be a potential murderer. >> again, our hearts go out obviously to the families of those killed and injured and to families everywhere. we know how you feel. time to turn to another big story this week. obamacare. house minority leader nancy pelosi say it's what our founding fathers envision for america. we play the tape and let you decide. >> i haven't heard where the founding fathers would want anything like this. this is something the american public didn't want when it started. we still don't want it now.

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adt -- always there. coverage on the missing plane. see you back at 1:00 p.m. eastern. is obamacare a fundamental right that our founding fathers would have envisioned for all americans? house minority leader nancy pelosi apparently thinks so. >> our founders wanted life, healthier life, liberty, the freedom to pursue their happiness not job locked, but having benefits, health care policies that are affordable.

>> i don't think that the founding fathers ever intended for the government to be so controlling over our lives. >> we can't live with the same rules they had back then. they didn't have soap. >> the founding fathers were emphatic each man could make his own destiny, make their own living and build the american dream. >> who is right? would the founders have approved of obamacare? >> no. i like the guy who said they didn't have soap back then. the founding fathers, with all due respect, would not have given at that time nancy pelosi the right to vote back then. >> or you. >> the founding fathers were about democratic, basically the states telling or governing how they are going to rule. in the commerce clause it was about where the health reform came in. it was about dropping barriers to trade between the states. i do not think the founding fathers would have been central

government control over help. >> it was all about restricting government, restricting the reach, restricting the intention of government. those are the basics on which this country was founded in the bill of rights. >> there is nothing in the bill of rights about health maintenance organizations. all the doctors could do was bleed you to death. there was something in the preamble to the constitution that said we are doing this to provide for the general welfare. there is something about statutes enacted by congress and signed into law. there is nothing in article 2 that prohibits congress from enacting stupid laws. >> they had something to say about laws too complex. from james madison, "it will be of little avail to people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if those laws be so voluminous they cannot be read or so incoherent that they

cannot be understood." to me, that's the definition of obamacare. >> strategy author those in faufr of obamacare at the administration has been to lie about it. once implemented to systemically erode its controls. despite people in the obama administration said they do not have the statuary authority to do that. they keep saying five years from now or six years from now we'll all love it. at that time it will be a big fat kick embedded in our society like medicare, which by the way, is on track to be broke in 20 years. >> the founding fathers, come on. >> i like what you said. it can be read which

substantiate your second part. it's a yes and no. thomas jefferson is on record having said all doctors are quacks. they didn't see a real up side in health care. they did empower congress to make these kinds of decisions. congress passed this law whether you like it or not. the founding fathers would have thought it was silly in their time because they didn't thing you could get health care. they did see the future in the sense if congress wants to pass a law to do it. okay. >> this was not an accidental statement by nancy pelosi. she said it several times before. last year around july 4th. it gets to the crux of what this country is, what makes it different. one of the godfather of the founders of this country was john lock. they used him as the basis for a lot of their thinking. he said, "the end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom."

does obamacare do that, preserve and enlarge freedom? >> certainly not. obamacare and the founders would never have passed obamacare and be struggling in their graves looking at it because the founders were libertarians. they meant to preserve our rights as individuals and severely limit the power of the federal government to do much of anything. they would be bothered that it passed. that it is a total failure wouldn't surprise them. what would bother is this speaks to the federalovernment going well beyond strict constitutional limits. >> i think so. what do you think? >> to follow bill baldwin's logic, congress has every right to repeal this law. if the republicans take the senate, they have every right to put president obama on the veto

pressure. let's keep this going. mike raises a great point about the misuse of executive order to continually change this law. >> stay tuned. the story is not over. the government is bringing something back for green cards that the cashing gang says will flush your green down the tank. president obama union members declaring that's how to help workers. some say scrapping the minimum wage all together will help workers more. mine was earned in korea in 1953. afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance

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one house republican said it's outlived its usefulness. that's what he said. don't boo, organize. the president mocking those who say scrapping the minimum wage will help workers more than hiking it. so rich, i guesses's mocking you, as well. that's what you believe, right? >> i think we should scrap it. we need to provide a more easily attainable bottom rung on the ladder for teenagers and other people desperate for jobs and need to learn work skills. when you have an adult, particularly adults with children, it is tragic when people are working at the minimum wage. that is a flaw of the education system and it's a flaw of obama's 2% growth economy. higher minimum wage would not

solve bad education and slow growth economy. >> a job is more important than a minimum wage? >> i agree raising the minimum wage will not solve our growth problems and all the things rich just said. there's too many people out there who can't make ends meet. one thing interesting about this, this whole argument over a federal minimum wage increase, the states have already taken it over, folks. you've got eight states that passed laws themselves to raise minimum wage. you've got 32 states going through the legislative process right now doing it themselves and eight more where people are organizing to put it on the ballot. this is going to be done before the federal government gets to it. >> why should the federal government be doing it? one sides as we learned with obamacare does not fit all. the cost of living varies tremendously from one state to the other, one city to the other. detroit versus new york. detroit costs about half as much.

maybe the states should get the feds out of it. >> the fed should be out of it. democrats are missing the larger point. the only thing that will help people is robust job creation and economic growth. the reason people live in poverty is because they don't have consistent paid employment. if you look at the number of people 16 and older in poverty last year, 67% of them did not work full time. this is a major problem. i agree we need to change our educational system. this is a president who wants to paper over the fact he has a failing economy. >> this is a president who wants one-size-fits-all solutions. frankly, the states have been permitting well with this. >> nearly 20 states have minimum wages higher than the federal level. to your earlier point. if you have a one-size-fits-all, if you have a national minimum wage that is higher than the cost of living in some of these states, companies there are going to have to either raise their prices on the goods there

or fire people or not give entry level jobs to teenagers who need those jobs. >> i suspect it's one of those scrap it all people. >> scrap it on the federal level and leave the states out of it. as individuals we should have the right to contract with businesses however we want. the reality is minimum wage doesn't impact most of us because most businesses will pay us more than that to keep us around. what it does do is serve as a barrier to entry for those who need work experience and want to get a foot in the door so that they can attain higher wages. it's some of the cruellest legislation conceived by the political class. >> we ended with john because this day is a very important day for john. you're getting married. congrats. that's scary. >> i am. >> we'll invite your wife on next time. congratulations. >> that's right. >> wear socks. >> he never wears socks.

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>>. >> time to beef up that emergency cash. >> mid cap growth has mid-size players in defense, contractors, pharmaceuticals. choppy ride. >> scrawny fund. you've got a tax bill. >> financial services are taking

over the rest of the economy. get a piece of it. >> analysts saying stock is lagging its competitors like wells fargo or u.s. bank corp. >> that's it "forbes on fox." have a wonderful weekend. keep it here. finding the common thread in the midst of so many tragedies. another ft. hood rampage this week. the navy yard shooting with aaron alexis a crazed contractor mowed down a dozen people. james holmes opened fire in a crowded movie theater leaving another 12 dead. the newtown schoolhouse slaughter with adam lanza killed 26 and the list goes on and on. the question, what do all of these horrific events have in common? the answer is these murders were all committed by people with