not ever happen in the united states, but you are going to sit over your coffee now and ponder what it would be like to be contacted by your boss all night >> i am working on saturday morning. the latest white house job fix that itself might need to fix. while president obama was awarding over $100 million for grants, critics say he is not doing much to help the bosses who have jobs for those kids. rather than pushing bosses to hike their minimum wage or have them pay overtime, is it time for the white house to get out of the way so they can hire kids. and now our guests, what do you think? >> every week there is a new gimmick. it's a new gimmick every week. >> expensive gimmick.

>> yeah, prepare young adults to go into the workforce or to go to college or whatever, it's nuts. maybe you buy a few future voters but it's so disingenuous at this point. hey, there is a greater issue, to the opening, create opportunities and real jobs and call off the warrant success. >> what do you think? >> i don't have a problem with the white house doing this. i don't think it's that -- will the money be well spent? who knows when it comes to the government. but in terms of training kids particularly in high school with skills, computer skills, and health care -- >> those are all the things that we spend more money per pupil than anywhere in the world. >> we are going in the wrong

direction in many ways. is this a step in the right direction? >> no. >> yes, i say absolutely yes. >> why? >> you can learn how to be a welder or electrician. you don't need barack obama and a little grant in the whole scheme of things -- >> you just made my point. >> it means nothing. it's a photo-op. >> yeah, we have long-term unemployment -- >> no, isn't this something they should already be doing? i think high school or whatever, you are preparing the next generation for the big bad world of jobs, and i took it as a given, i thought we were already doing this. >> that's a philosophical debate. >> no.

you learn when kids go off the school, and when they come home, dad here is what i learned today. but you need a grant, apparently. >> we teach the building blocks of education, reading, writing and arithmetarithmetic, and thel skills. let me finish, charlie. if these are good things to teach, we should teach them and teach more of them. i wouldn't criticize this program. what i criticize is the preplious that charles jumped on, where he says the government should get out of the way and stop doing what its doing. >> that's not what i said, adam. >> let me tell you, i was saying we spend more money per student than any country in the world. you are in the financial world, and it's called a return on investments. i thought building blocks of

school is k through four, and then maybe in high school they learn legitimate skills they can use. >> aren't we missing the point? where are the jobs? >> good point. >> well, using computers are definitely jobs. >> if you want to program computers and write code you can get a job. but i am telling you people with average to above average intelligence, jobs are dwindling. >> i think it's a bad idea. >> fine. but here is what i am thinking. in this environment where we are demanding people will hire kids, to hike the minimum wage, and giving them rules and regulations up the ying yang on health care, wouldn't it be the better part of valor and common

sense to give them incentives to hire them and then we can determine if they need more, and we're not doing that? >> to make a long answer short, yes. >> okay, great. >> i totally agree with you. i am not in favor of raising the federal minimum wage -- >> how about embrace the charter school. >> that's the irony of it. >> you hate him. >> you are a hater. >> he is hating you. >> no, he is hurting poor children -- >> did they not plow your streets -- >> they did. >> what? >> i want our kids to be trained for the future and if they have to go to class seven days a week

like they do in south korea, whatever ridiculous nonsense it is, fine. but the more pressing thing right now is getting off the backs of the folks that hire them so they can hire them. but you cannot be a businessman today looking at the cost hitting you and hike the minimum wage when you can't afford it, or pay overtime, and that cannot put you in the mind-set to go ahead and hire people. it can't. >> i understand exactly what you are saying, and i am not going to joke around this at all. i think we should do everything we can to make for a good economic climate, but the way you frame it, it's far more complicated than that. >> what are the grants going to do? if you are going to say more computer printing and the rest, why isn't that working right now? whatever it is, why do you need

a multi-million dollar study to say this is the way we have to go? >> i have no problem saying this won't do much, or it's a side show and charlie called it a photo op, but there's a difference between saying it's wrong or a waste of money. i don't know that it's a waste of money. >> we don't have the money. >> we should absolutely have the debate that we are framing, what is the right thing to do for education? >> i can tell you what it is. it's to promote more skills-based training, and discourage people -- >> do those skills include basics? >> there's a lot of college debt kids have right now. >> you are a practical-thinking person, would you include in the training, train future electrics

and plumbing -- >> yes, yes. health care biotech, technology, and -- >> we have that already. >> you don't have enough. let me just finish this thought. people have been encouraged to go to four-year schools in the last 48 years, and the one thing i was supposed to be able to do when i got out of college, type. type. every job i applied for i had to take a typing test and you know, i didn't know how to type. >> my mom went to a technical school and learned how to type. >> that's my point. but your mom was in her 70s. >> they still exist. >> not in a way they once did. i should have gone to anchor school and learned teeth whitening and hair care. >> do you think it's easy to read a prompter? do you think it's easy! >> by the way --

>> they beat up that guy. when we come back, getting to the bottom of the irs mess. she still is not talking but the forbes gang know how to get her talking. meanwhile -- all right, so it was not that great of an accent. and then the government going after these to save these. we report, you go crawl into a shell. >> go away! when folks in the lower 48 think about what they get from alaska,

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get out of here! >> what did they do? >> move! get out of here, you cowards! move! >> i am telling you. watch this, because it's a volatile situation, and talk about not putting up with bull. federal agents seizing cattle. the problem is this. his cows were grazing on public land set up ideally to protect the desert tortoises, among others. he said he was on the land long before the government got involved. the tortoise has the edge on this one. >> i had tortoise soup, and i am

in favor of the rancher. >> why are the cows a danger to the tortoise? >> i think they destroy the environment the tortoise live on. it's interesting, because it shows a certainty vied in the democratic party. t one of the main forces in the democratic party besides unions are environmentalist, the battle betwee the working man and the environmentalist, the insraoeurenvironmentalist will time. >> the fight started when the farmer stopped paying the grazing fees. i would not have moved into pick up these herds of cattle and get them on to other land.

it's kick the can down the road. >> they used the tortoise as an excuse. >> this is nuts. we have come a long way. i was watching "big country," and it's always about land and cattle and water, and now it's about the cows and tortoises? are you nuts? there is no way in the world this should have come to this. >> this is united states? what are you talking about? >> what are you saying? >> i am just saying the fact that we have all the federal land, that's an asset in the country, and we are deep in debt -- >> you are right. >> he pays to have the cows

graze -- >> what do you make of this? you will be the final argument here. >> this is a very serious subject. you saw those people opposing federal police. >> no, watch it again when they come back. apparently, it's something to watch. >> this only ends historically -- historically this only ends one way, and the ranchers are not going to be the winners in this situation. when the federal government decides it's going to enforce its laws, it wins. >> what law is it enforcing? is it about a tortoise or about this guy not paying grazing fees on federal land? >> yeah, i totally assume it has little to do with the tortoise, but -- >> thank you. >> adam, it has to do with the environmental movement. >> i don't think so. >> remember the debate over the spotted owl?

>> didn't the owl just fly to another tree? >> we have had this over tortoises or spotted owls? >> i want to say i don't endorse the federal government using force on the rancher -- >> are they using force to say nobody can use it or just this guy if he is 20 years in arre s arrears. >> well, this is an environmental -- >> yes, it is. i wanted to say two things, the spotted owl is going instinct anyway. that's the sad irony. and adam, i want to say one thing to adam, if the ranchers

lose, america loses. >> i don't agree with you. >> i will tell you this, you can't go and have a picnic on a federal runway. that's the nature of the country -- i have seen people try to do that in rural virginia. >> it's a debate between the environmentalist and the people that want to graze on the land. >> you are trivializing this issue. >> when we come back, this -- >> are you okay? >> no. >> why the next trip grocery store could have you in tears as store could have you in tears as well. gunderman group is a go.

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>> all right, well, getting grilled at the grill. in case you haven't noticed, ground beef prices are sizzling and at a record high and this coming with a big jump in wholesale food prices. >> this is a giant disconnect between main street and the government number crunchers. one of the tricks i think they do is let's say ribeye goes up in price, a year later they'll say you can still have chuck. so technically, there's no inflation. why are you crying? don't worry about it. >> but people will go to a

cheaper cut of meat. >> there's no inflation or it doesn't hit our pocketbooks. >> you say it's good inflation. >> yeah, chuck is good for meatballs. this does speak to the disconnect between wall street and main street. wall street loves the fact that we have 0% interest rates and all of this. it's propped up the stock market but mt. conte in the contrast of that you create commodity inflation. >> it's related to farming and the weather. you have bacon prices going up. >> this one doesn't. >> bacon prices are going up because of the disease -- there's a disease that's hitting baby pigs and killing them all. >> aye sure that's some of it. >> but see that's not a constitue constituentcy he cares for. >> food inflation is self-correcting. prices go up and people consume less and the farmer's always end up overproducing in the long run. supplies go up and prices will

come down. trust me on that. >> even when you have 0% interest rates they're going to go down that much. >> yes. >> the drought in the west is a big factor in this. >> it's a huge factor. >> and we have to remember, there's no conspiracy on inflation. inflation is quite low for some of the reasons that charlie stated but for other reasons, gas prices are down. >> can we stick to the subject. i'm talking about beef. is it a reason to worry? is it a leading indicator for other inflation components. >> not necessarily. >> you don care. if other prices were going to go through the roof. >> i care. >> i'm a vegetarian and i say they're high but they will come down. >> but you think this won't last long. >> ultimately it will not last long because these ranchers will be able to produce more heads of cow. >> i think you're being too

cavalier about it. i do. >> i'm the only one around here from a farming community. i'm the only one who can smell manure from my house. i know what i'm talking about. >> i don't care what anybody says. if you keep interest rates this low -- >> but why is it a big phenomenon now? >> we've had commodity inflation. >> i understand that. but why -- the drought has nothing to do with it? >> i'm not saying that. of course it does. there's lots of factors that go into a price. not just the drought or supply and demand. >> and it doesn't help when you stop people from farming. >> well, you know, a very good point there, young man. so you're not being cavalier. >> they actually killed that cattle on that farm land then prices would go down because you'd ve more beef supply on the market. so there. >> look at the time. thank you both very, very much. another rocky week for the stock

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i don't love it but it's safe. >> that's a fox news alert. shef rchevron is okay. i don't their execution. eog i think is better. >> guys, i want to thank you both very much. plus this is an on going matter. i'm not going to answer those questions. i just said this is an on going matter and i'm not going to comment on an ongoing matter. i'm not going to talk about an ongoing investigation. >> one after another. u.s. attorney general eric holder will not comment and lois lerner won't testify. so now they're holding him in contempt of congress. some republicans say they need her testimony to get to the bottom of the irs targeting conservatives scandal so will giving her immunity get there faster? welcome to