a bigger threat anything business might do. that is our show. see you next week. >> have a great day, everybody. forget about warnings that obama care will flat line jobs. are we seeing the first sign it's actually happening now? hi everyone. this is "bulls and bears." small businesses saying the health care law is holding back hiring and forcing some to start cutting, while big companies like ge say it's impacting medical businesses. so are all the warnings starting to come true right now? here we go. "bulls and bears" this week. we have our panel. welcome to everybody. john, are we now seeing what you and others have been predicting? >> yeah. unfortunately, what we said is

coming to pass. and we said all along this is going to hurt the economy. it's not a very strong recovery going on and stuff like this hurts. ge just came out, remember, the head of ge is one of the president's close advisers. 45% of small businesses say they are curtailing hiring because of obama care. 29% say that they are actually letting people go because of obama care. there's been over 20 different new taxes created to pay for obama care. we were told this is going to be paid for by young people who basically don't use the insurance, paying for the old. we were told basically this is going to be free. that is not happening. it's very costly and it's hurting small business and hurting the economy. >> well, according to the studies, jonas, and we did see the ceo of ge complaining about this, what does that tell you, basically? are we seeing it actually hit the job market now? >> well, i don't know about the job -- look. it's a complex implementation

and it confuses people, but will it actually give less hiring over the long run? it seems you can buy your way out of it. is that all your employee was worth? 2,000 extra, that is the only profit margin you were delivering to this company? you're fired. that seems like a little bit of a stretch. i'm not saying it's a good thing and the whole notion of having to pay for employee health care as an employer is a negative to the job market but that system used to exist. it is more complicated now with aca, sure, but i don't see it leading to massive firings. 96% of businesses it doesn't even apply. others can buy their way out. others were providing health care. it is a bureaucracy but i don't see it being a major job killer. maybe a minor one. >> in the whole calculus for a businessman you have to look at what your margins are, what your costs are. this definitely has to be weighing on them and their decisions to hire or fire. >> absolutely. jonas kind of encapsulized it

when he said this is a complicated law, if you will. any additional complication is going to curb hiring. it has to. there is uncertainty. john, in the opening, stated some of the numbers that he saw. i think those are accurate. here's the thing. jonas said i don't think it is going to be a big impact on employment or hiring but here is what you have to remember. even a small impact. when you have a small u-6 unemployment rate of 13% or 14% it makes a huge difference. we are right now at kind of the break even before falling back into a recession or, god forbid, a depression. any little thing like this, i don't think obama care is a little thing, can have a huge impact in centers teetering down. >> gary is so smart. he uses things we don't always understand. but you think the unemployment rate and the under employment rate -- david, what do you read about all of this? are you seeing any job losses from obama care? >> well, i think it can be

simply looked at. if you look at the numbers of jobs created under bush for eight years, that was 1.1 million. and that was of course without any health care reform. with health care reform, you've seen in the last 48 months, straight 48 months, you've seen 8.7 jobs created. so just taking those numbers, i think it simplifies it for us all that even with obama care, you still have job growth. i would ask anybody, you know, would you like to have job growth and health care, or would you prefer lower job growth and no health care? i think the preference would be for the former rather than the latter. >> well, we don't even really have job growth that can sustain population growth at this point. when you add on obama care, what does that mean? >> not even close. look, when the guy's buddy throws him under the bus and says, my numbers are bad because of this health care thing, you know, the ceo of ge, you know

you have issues. come on. if nothing else, he should be working his way around it and trying to defend around it and he's not. he is saying, look what's happening to my bottom line because of? that to me was the biggest sign of the entire week's news. little businesses, talk to them. all right. they're not going to be firing but they sure as heck ain't hiring because they don't know, gary b. said it, uncertainty. there is so much uncertainty surrounding this thing. why bother when i can go freelancers, consultants, and not have to deal with it? >> jonas? >> the same top executive is a consultant of the white house if i'm not mistaken. >> right. >> why would he say that? >> if the white house is being advised and consulted by the largest employer of the world, one of them, and an owner of one of the largest health care companies i highly doubt they would devise a scheme to destroy job creation. >> remember, they didn't even know what they were passing. >> i would agree with you. don't forget, nancy pelosi's words, they didn't even read the darned thing. they didn't know what they were getting into. >> small businesses, if they

don't know, should know about the tax incentives and tax subsidies, especially for those with 25 or fewer employees making on average $50,000. it could by providing insurance, reduce their costs by 35%, which is a big benefit to small businesses and any business that hasn't looked at that needs to look at that and listen to it rather than maybe by emil and his claims of suffering over there at ge. >> john, go ahead and talk to david's point. >> where is the stimulus tree this stuff grows on in d.c.? look, most studies have shown the average family will pay an extra $6,000 a year in new taxes. this stimulus, they love to say this, people get stimulus, they get subsidized. it's coming out of somebody's paycheck. you talk about numbers, let's talk about real numbers. in the real world. we're down about a million jobs since president obama took over. if you want to talk about an alternative universe here, i'm

not sure where those numbers truly come from. and you look at the medical device, you've lost about 33,000 real jobs right now. you're going to lose about 123,000 according to all the studies from the medical device people. this is one of emil's businesses. this does hurt business in a real way. talk about subsidies all you want. somebody is paying for it. >> more people have health insurance, how is that going to lead to less consumption of medical devices? that is the connection -- seems like it will be a boon of the health care stocks. >> it makes devices more expensive. why am i going to -- look. he's not paying this extra cost. let's not kid ourselves. your washing machine is going to be more money now. your medical devices will be more money now. that is the bottom line. it is going to be passed on to us and we should all raise our hands and say we are the ones paying for this disaster. >> you can all get in on this discussion with hash tag bulls & bears. gary b.? >> i want to get back, david

made this big point somehow that obama care, we look at these numbers, obama vs. bush, and it led to more job growth. again, i would love to see the details on that as the unemployment rate has gone up, not down, since obama took office. but, look, this is a -- >> unemployment has gone down, gary. >> the unemployment rate is now higher than when obama took office. >> i don't know what math or chart you're looking at, but i don't think that's the case. >> my point is this. this is a tax on business. let's just say they opt to pay the $2,000 per employee. that is like saying, going to each business out there and saying you must put a coke machine in the lobby whether you want it or not. how is that going to increase hiring if they have to cough up more money to put the coke machine in? i'm scratching my head on this one. >> get in on the discussion. hash tag bulls & bears. thanks, guys. you remember the irs bonuses we told you about last week? well, guess which employees are getting them?

tax cheats. and that's not the worst of it. the cavuto on business gang with more on that at the bottom of the hour. up here first -- point, click, tax. why you should be paying special attention to your next online purchase.

powerful name in news, fox news channel. just as consumer sentiment is rebounding, the online tax man is set to hit another state come may first as a new study

shows internet taxes are digging into sales of the one part of our economy that has been booming. gary b., is that why you want the internet to be a tax free zone? >> you summed it up, brenda. it's the one part of our economy that's booming. there is no other amazon out there. there is no other ebay out there. we are the ones, the united states, that's created these enterprises and they have spawned other enterprises. what we want to do, a lot of these states and the federal government, is make the amazons of the world the new oil companies, the new pinatas they can go to and get more tax revenue to spend idiotically. why we want to do that and bring the amazons of the world down to the level of other big bucks retailers that have gone out of business, we want to turn amazon into woolworth and penney's and sears and all those other dead retailers when we have this great growth we should be investing in. >> is it really fair? does this give a competitive

edge to amazon over the brick and mortar retailers? >> i was the biggest fan of the grilled cheese at woolworth's when i was a kid. >> you're dating yourself. >> so fun. >> it was the best ever. but that's not why woolworth's went out of business. look, people are shopping online, bottom line, and, unfortunately, it's completely unfair. i don't want taxes at all. so either get rid of sales tax all around, brick and mortar and internet, which we all know that's not happening any time soon, or you level the playing field. it is just not fair. or you're going to put every brick and mortar business out of business. >> okay. jonas, weigh in here. >> it's a tax we are supposed to pay anyway in many cases. just because we're not paying it, it is not collected by amazon up until now in some states doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it is not really fair to the other ones. look, the internet is not a growth phase anymore. it's not like we'll topple it with taxes. they can handle the taxes. the other companies are the ones

going out of business. it's developed enough where they can play by the same rules as best buy and whom ever and amazon and the others are putting infrastructure in these states to distribute goods that same day. they have to pay this tax and frankly they don't have the sales tax, states still need money to fix stuff. they're going to raise income taxes, property taxes, inheritance taxes. so particularly florida, which has no income tax -- >> david, go ahead. >> listen, amazon is making enormous profits and has become enormous in itself. and the bricks and mortar stores can't keep up. we all know why this is. we go to the store. we look at the prices. then we go back home in the internet and we end up buying the same thing cheaper. why? because amazon doesn't have to pay the taxes. i believe they need to pay the taxes and not drive the brick and mortar stores that are adding cohesively to the

community, adding jobs and so forth, in order to make them just as competitive. >> i got to let john get in here. john, it's not just the sales taxes making amazon a big success. >> no, it's not. they have incredible -- an incredible machine and spend a lot in future investments. the most famous loch ness monster that turned out to be a hoax was a woolworth toy that was used. >> there's not a loch ness monster? >> i don't know if there is but the most famous hoax was with woolworth's. that's mbe why it is out of business. this isn't fair. if you order from a store in your community, order by phone you pay tax, pick it up in person you pay tax but on the internet you don't. it's not a fair system. amazon is down 10% in sales in states that have now instituted a tax. we don't need a phased in run away but for the sake of fair competition we need to phase it in over time.

>> but we barely have a recovery. >> exactly. this is the same arguments i heard when we said we should bail out gm, bail out companies and whole sectors that are unable to sustain themselves. look, when we came out with the automobile, i'm sure the horse and buggy people were saying, my gosh. it's not fair. they don't have to pick up manure from the horses. we're at a competitive disadvantage. >> but they had to pay a tax. >> i think it is a different argument. bail out ge meant write a taxpayer check. this is just saying, do what everyone else does. look, i don't think we should pay sales tax at all. i agree with you there. but it is completely messed up to john's point that you can order something, not pay, but walk to the actual store and visit the mom and pop and pay. that doesn't make sense. it's not fair to anyone. this has nothing to do with evil wolf capitalism, david. >> i didn't say it did. i said it was a fairness issue that bricks and mortars are

paying taxes and amazon and jeff are not. >> there are little people on the web, too. >> i agree. >> it just should be even. that's all. >> i agree. couldn't agree more. >> no business should pay sales tax anymore in a state like oregon because of this unfair advantage and acknowledge income taxes are going to go up to counter it or gas taxes or something. don't magically think we can just give up sales tax on the internet and states are going to be fine and dandy on it. >> you're just afraid of a florida income tax, jonas. >> all right. >> i said there was a bail out for ge. i meant gm. >> thanks, guys. so the nation's labor board now wants companies to give their workers private phone numbers and addresses to unions. it's a pro big labor rule that the cavuto gang says will bring big privacy problems for all workers. but up here next, what this unruly, we'll call them boozed

up passengers did, that could have your next in flight cocktail on lock down. [ grunting ]

i'm taking off, but, uh, don't worry. i'm gonna leave the tv on for you. and if anything happens, don't forget about the new xfinity my account app. you can troubleshoot technical issues here. if you make an appointment, you can check out the status here. you can pay the bill, too. but don't worry about that right now. okay. how do i look? ♪ thanks.

[ male announcer ] troubleshoot, manage appointments, and bill pay from your phone. introducing the xfinity my account app. xfinity watchathon week was the biggest week in televisionhone. history. but just when you thought it was over... what now? with xfinity on demand you can always watch the latest episodes of tv's hottest shows. good news. like hannibal... chicago fire.... ...and bates motel. the day after they air. xfinity on demand. all the latest episodes. all included with your service. it's like hi-fiving your eyeballs. xfinity...the future of awesome. well, it happened again. another booze crazed passenger causing a major air scare. this guy tried breaking into the cockpit, triggering a hijack alert. now calls are growing to limit the number of drinks served on planes because of this.

is that going to fly? >> i'm not going to fly. i can't get through turbulence without it quite frankly. i don't know how anyone does. this guy needs, the flight attendants should have noticed he was getting unruly and maybe do something about it, but don't blame all of us for this. i like my glass of wine regardless of the fact that it's a label i never even heard of. >> all right. jonas, tracy has a fear of flying but airlines may have a fear of outlawing drinks. there is some revenue there. >> the last place in the world you can have a bourbon next to a 3-year-old. don't take that away, america. you know, in all seriousness, these drunks are subsidizing my cheap tickets, because the only -- can't make money serving $8 drinks to people for the entire flight the ticket prices are going to go up. this is a way some people pay for everybody else's tickets. so, look, are there drunks? sure. but you can bring the little bottles through security.

they'll drink anyway and try to kick the cockpit door in. it won't make it go away because they're not serving you drinks on the plane. >> boy, you know a lot about this, jonas. david, what do you think? >> i think why place those limits on most of the passengers when it's one, isolated individual that can't hold his liquor? i think they should be paying high or greater penalties for disorderly conduct in the sky, or trying to break into a -- into the cockpit. >> right. >> but not have others pay the price for their deviant actions. >> and gary b., here we go again with government regulations. i can hear you saying it. >> exactly. the government, from the government i'm here to help. i can already see there's going to be some senate hearing on this and they're going to come down with laws. this should be up to each of the airlines. on jonas's airline it's open bar. okay? that's the one he wants to fly, fantastic. >> with the 3-year-old.

>> some of the others, you know, on tracy's it's wine only. every airline should determine their policy. if it's so important for you to fly with no drinking, i'm sure some airline will come up with that marketing campaign. >> gary b., i got to ask about john's airline. i bet that's the one i want to be flying. >> look, have you seen the service on most of these airlines lately? drinking should be mandatory before you get on the flight. look, the problem here is not drunks. the problem is idiots. whether they're sober or drunk, they're idiots. i think what you should do is you see some loud, obnoxious dude, taser the moron. texas justice. thanks, guys. thank you, david, for joining us. >> pleasure to be with you. >> well, are your kids acting up? what if i told you the solution. is it simple as just hanging up the phone?

brenda, netflix is coming to cable boxes. i think the stock is going to go up. 20% gain by labor day. >> john, bull or bear? i love netflix. think you can get it cheaper. >> your prediction? >> rates are going to go up. companies, i think up 20% in a year. >> jonas bull or bear? >> not for me. >> your prediction? >> the internet is getting a little less neutral with the fcc rules. good for the telecom companies.

>> okay. and gary b., bull or bear on that? >> bear. >> tracy, your prediction? >> there was a study that if parents put their phone down the kids will act better? come on. >> all right. "cavuto on business" that is next and they don't behave. who is that knocking at your door for a surprise visit? unions. hello everyone. in the national labor relations board wants to force companies to hand over their workers' personal phone numbers and home addresses to unions. now, this will make it easier for labor organizers in what critics are calling ambush elections. sounds a little bush league to me. >> it's outrageous, incredible interference of people's privacy, invading their privacy. if i were a worker at a factory somewhere i would not want the union to have my home address and my phone number calling me