will follow the standards. the book is "the kraken project," and the author is douglas preston.♪ ♪ ♪ >> last week i said that if we found misconduct, it would be punished and i meant it. a few minutes ago eric shinseki offered me his resignation and i accepted with considerable regret. neil: secretary eric shinseki was out. but the problem is remain. problems have been piling up for decades now under this president and the president before him so removing a figurehead doesn't remove the problem with the figure. we spent a lot of money and we do not seem to be helping the

very folks for whom it is intended. what does that mean where does it go? the president has intimated that he would like to get more money going the agency's way. but before we find out what the agency is doing with the money they are to have, could that be compounding the problem? welcome, everyone, i am neil cavuto. with this is austan goolsbee. patrick, over to you on whether more money, regardless of who is in charge now, will be the answer. >> i wouldn't give them another dime i know, there's something rotten in this state here. there is a moral corruption and we don't know how deep and wide it is in the veterans administration and hospitals, but it is pretty deep and wide from what we know about arizona and some other places. basically i think that we ought to take a look because it is an endemic and take a look at the idea, basically, these veterans,

giving them a veterans card, letting them go to the clinic or emergency room or hospital closest to them. that idea, in the short-term, getting the care they are being denied. in the long-term, i think we ought to ask ourselves what we construct this 300,000 person institution in hospitals if we were starting from scratch and given all the scandals we have seen down through the years, i ain't we ought to take a look at the possibility of something new >> we can't fix the va system right here on the show, but it's a quick way to cut down on soldiers and veterans waiting for care, giving them a voucher to go somewhere else for her care. what's wrong with that? >> we should be open to looking at ideas that would work. the va hospital system from the early to mid 1800s, it's definitely not from the modern health care system. i would point out, however, that

the average week time in private sector hospitals is not actually more than one day or so shorter than what is in the va hospital. what has happened hereis fundamentally because of fighting two wars in the caseload has more than doubled in the last five years and we have not -- the budget of the va has not, in any way, kept up with this. >> it's very easy to start going back and blame the prior administration. i'm not here to blame anyone, but i'm here to say when it comes to conditions and those that way, the average wait tim is 112 days. >> there is a supply and demand problem here, they have all these new veterans pouring into the hospitals. and they don't have the primary care people or nurses to take care of them. the answer would've been for

them to go to congress and say you're giving us an impossible task and many more doctors and nurses and we need more providers. but instead we got systematic cheating and denial of care to veterans who are sick and worried and some of them dying, which is appalling and probably criminal. and i do think in the short run, i think you have to find a way. you have to find a way to get these people the care they need in the 14 days or 20 days or whatever you can do. >> but i would like to look at the bigger picture. i know you don't call the president health care obamacare or an obamacare program, but it's going to be a lot more government involvement. a lot are looking at what is happening here the va saying this is how we treat our soldiers and veterans and bureaus. people have thought these generally and we all rally around him. so that is how we treat them.

so is this being rude and gaining traction leaders being a preview of it. what do you think? >> i think that there's one thing that is fundamentally different. the va is run as an agency run hospital. obamacare is a government subsidy of private insurance that goes through this. >> but with the government calling the shots -- and also the coverage and also the limits and what will be included. so the government is our him this area. >> i didn't think it was a passive player, but fundamentally different from the va. the va is wrong for the government and there has been criminal and negligent behavior and we have to address it.

>> but this is totally different. >> do we have much encouragement about the next government after a max two i think what is happening is that the va is a pristine example of a major government program and agency which we were told that was caring and compassionate and competent and they are not. we have had similar problems and obamacare. and we have had a couple of government programs, the highway system, world war ii, they are assigned the private vector, building planes and ships and all the rest of it. the private sector building highways and what we have is a gigantic government-run operation of the va, and clearly it is deeply flawed and not working and there is systemic and endemic.

>> the first is there is a big difference between -- are they messing up the access to va care and that is quite different from when the veterans are in the care of the va hospitals. >> we have to see, is this some bad gangrenous limbs of the va system? and other parts of it are doing well and the vets like it, that's something that we ought to investigate and find out about, and we ought to determine if this is survivable. from the looks of it, four years of this sort of thing going on, there's a lot of people saying let's throw it out. maybe throw the baby out with the bathwater. >> it's early in the process, but this goes on. thank you gentlemen very much. in the meantime, michael bloomberg doesn't strike me as some raging conservative, but he did raise a point about liberal bias on college campuses.

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>> this spring it has been disconcerting to see a number of college commencements withdraw or have their invitations rescinded after protest from students and shockingly from senior faculty and administrators who should know better. in each of these cases, liberals silenced a voice and they denied an honorary degree to individuals that they deemed politically objectionable. this is an outrage. liberal arts education must not be an education in the art of liberalism. >> that is coming from a liberal. michael bloomberg saying that enough is enough, he knows that 97% of college officials, that they are liberal. but when you start picking and choosing who the speakers are in the way that many of these institutions have, over to

charles payne and what he makes on this. >> there is really an amazing amount of intolerance on the left. after years, i've never seen anything like this. you cannot make any sort of politically incorrect statement without losing your job or being threatened with losing her job. this kind of stuff is really important. it is amazing. >> the right is intolerant, it's probably true to both peoples arguments. but you get grief for your points of view, among even your friends. how do you deal with that? >> you know, life. if these with your friends you can disagree reasonably. but you have to live an honest life and i think that is one

thing. i know i gave bloomberg a lot of grief. even this whole thing about this constitution taken up the one little thing called the second amendment, it kind of rubs me the wrong way is well. that's why i'm glad to see him, of all people. neil: i want to bring in our all-star team. we have gary b. smith and imagine whether. >> shelley young conservatives and i will show you them with liberal and i will show you someone with no brain. this is what happens. >> event, we have a conservative prime minister and at the same time i'm not finding this eyebrow raising.

>> it's gone a little weird lately worry about making them leave out speakers at college campuses because they are not doing their bidding for their point of view. >> 90% went to the left, when tool, rather than romney. so that was a billing number. >> they have to be very aware, which is fine. >> i will say that this is an opportunity for conservatives to benefit profoundly.

>> 96%, it shocks me, because i thought it was a hundred%. neil: but when you look at this, all of these powerful women in the financial world who have been kicked out of speaking engagements because they are deemed controversial. because apparently global money policies and the institutions exist. but we have to have a feel about that and what they are most known for. is that really the way we want to go with this? or should we just disband college speakers altogether? >> well, no, i would go the opposite way. i think that they have a service to bring in speakers from all different aspects whether they agree with them or not. unfortunately i do not see that. my older daughter went to one of

the seven sisters schools, which is very similar to the ivy league and i know that she walked in, hopefully thanks to my upbringing but a fair and balanced mine and a letter very much a diehard liberal. she really didn't know a lot, i don't think politically one way way or another. but through that intense indoctrination she came out on the left side, if you will. so it's unfortunate that even a school of that held the bird did her a disservice. >> okay. thank you guys so much on this. before, charles has his big show next monday. xpm come are you ready? >> i am absolutely ready. making money with charles payne,. neil: absolutely, to charles payne party.

>> beyond that, though, i look at where we are in this country and the malaise that we are in in the fading hope and i want to shake people and say, this is the greatest country in the world. nothing has ever been as great as this country. so it's one thing to help people make money, but before you can get to that point you, you have to make them understand. >> we will talk about the idea that financial people scare people. if the end is near, there's a crash, crash is coming. but you want to live long, you want to have a great life area

it's not about the crash next weekend, what do you think the market will be 10 or 20 years from now i matter we need to understand how great this country is. neil: one thing about ratings, he actually estimates the money. i am making no promises. ♪ ♪

neil: slap me if you begin to see a pattern here. i'm looking at up. you do you know what they all have in common? their policies, they're hiring these. are they diverse enough? do they have enough women in the boardroom? even when their companies are doing very well. it got to the point where the heads of google have said we could do a better job with this. and they say maybe we have to be on top of this or appear to be on top of that. gary, what do you make of this? it could certainly be more diverse, but it does seem to me like a revolving machine gun one company after another.

what is going on? >> i guess i agree with both sides, you know, i worked for a long time at ibm and i never saw with minorities or females who are discriminated against, it always seemed like the best people got to the top. and a lot of them are old boys clubs, whether by design or just by omission, they do discriminate and i think they need to air on the side of what try to be more open. >> when google came to mind it onto this response and we have been reluctant with the city numbers only now realized that we were wrong.

>> i do think there's another side to this. to me, this screams of a breeze theme. i know there is a bottom line. i don't think there is a discrimination against race or gender. >> we hired we know, a lot of us started with like-minded friends and roommates and that's who they knew. so that's not too different from traditional smokestack companies that i would as soon as well. >> it's a good thing that they got these numbers out, i >> it's a good thing that they got these numbers out, it's not just about this, but say if you look at students that take computer science courses, only 18% are women. under 5% are african-americans or hispanics. so it's not just conversation

about google, but what is going on in colleges in the education system and why are there not more women and minorities. that is the key there. >> that, too, can be a slippery slope, can take? >> yes, absolutely. i think that as we just stated the company's bottom line has to be to protect the shareholder value and profit and sometimes the best person is not a woman or a man or whoever you are looking for, but the best person is the best person. you have to bend over backwards for the second or third best person in their when you are trying to meet a quota, that works against what the company is ultimately trying to achieve very at. neil: i don't mean to be so jaded, because this is what you said, but it would essentially ransom companies. so if you want us to get off

your back, you might have to do a couple of things. so i'm wondering if a lot of this is to put on undue pressure with groups like jesse jackson so that you can avoid the nasty publicity. >> that is a certainly correct, not just companies, he believed government entities into suggesting this and he keeps everything through the purview of race. it's not a concerted effort for them to be racist. >> when we come back, i think michelle obama needs some help and the only person can do it is richard simmons peace of mind is important when you're running a successful business. so we provide it services you can rely on. with centurylink as your trusted it partner, you'll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on.

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neil: all right. first the bad news. we have the fattest nation on earth. that we held that for a long, long time but i can't carry this

torch alone. apparently others are sneaking up on us very, very quickly despite what the first lady is trying to do have us eat healthy lunches and they're putting kibosh on that. we're not eating healthy lunches. kids in school are throwing them out. it's a mess. this is something i want to get into with my all-stars. china is moving up on us as second fattest nation on earth of the as soon as people get their economic act together, they get lazy and watch tv i don't know what is going on, india, russia, brazil, mexico, it's a mess. but, i am mow gene, thinking, britain's obesity rate exceed that of the united states. >> no, it doesn't. >> it doesn't. neil: what do you think of that? >> look -- neil: two out of three in the united kingdom. >> we have followed you in many things as we know. neil: now this is our fault. >> of course. obesity is a public health

catastrophe. i have seen figures up 25% in the medicaid budget. certain lit u.k., national health service it costs it $8 billion a year which is huge amount for a small tiny island nation. neil: it's a global. >> nobody, no country has managed to get grips to it whatsoever. which is actually incredibly frightening. because obesity is bigger problem than starvation worldwide. neil: it is interesting. why don't we have any fat people debating this? >> you know, in the united states, remedy to this, first lady i should say, central planning is not the answer. we've seen the absolute failure of the let's move campaign. the first lady will tell you that the student lunch roles increased. she is absolutely wrong of the government accountability says 1.2 million students left school lunch rules. first time in 30 years the numbers have gone done. neil: those won't eat the stuff if they don't have alternative, they have to eat the stuff. >> they do have to eat the stuff. these kids are posting instagram

pictures of these lunches. they look horrific. they look like soviet union lunches. neil: what are we watching? i don't even know. >> it is horrendous. neil: that's a hot dog? that is not too bad. >> american children are no longer the fattest. those in italy and greece r maybe the first lady is having a bit of an impact there. neil: with all the respect, i think first lady is having impact make us aware and obesity rate in this country has declined. there is that. but having said that, gary b., there are certain levels and levers that you can't push. and it can't change things. i'm wondering if a government can centrally plan a thinner society? or inspire them to michelle obama's credit to exercise more, to get outside more, to get away from their devices more? all good by me? >> well, neil, didn't we go through this back in like the '30s with prohibition? the government decided that alcohol was bad and you know, went to ban it and it didn't, it

didn't work somehow. you know, we had al capone and we had eliot ness and we had all that. government central planning model, tried by the soviet union. it has been tried by cuba and many countries around the world. it doesn't work. and spied, even if it did work, that is not the government's job. we do at love things bad. we're rude on chat boards of the we drive too fast. drink too much. all that, it is terrible i agree with that. you know what? that is not the government's responsibility. >> what about tobacco? what about seatbelts? labeling works. oklahoma state prove that it works and fundamentally a solution has to be found. neil: you think it will be a government solution? >> worst diet ever invented in great britain, government rationing. neil: that was birth of spam. >> we were healthier in britain ever before and ever since. >> telling people to eat is

anathema to free democratic society. neil: to the point it is going on across the world as world becomes richest albeit at slow pace, is this inevitable? what do you do to address isn't. >> answer is self-responsibility. not government regulation. the fact that children are less obese in this country now, perhaps they're forgoing lunch all together. we saw the pictures. government regulation not the answer. self-responsibility. bottom line. >> the government has to get involved because the amount it is costing the government. >> it does not. >> absolutely. they did with tobacco. did with seatbelts. neil: you're open to yet another incursion? >> lunch programs are running deficits by the way. we talk finances this is hurting the u.s. >> 25% medicaid. go do something about it. neil: too bad john candy is dead. it could have made this a much more presentable debate here. anyway, coming up, donald sterling declared mentally unfit

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jo think about this, donald sterling had no say at all in the sale of his team, l.a. clippers for $2 billion. he was deemed mentally unfit but seems pretty shrewd to me because he made $2 billion but who am i to judge? the bottom line he is the mentally unfit candidate. many say in the sale of his team, a team he bought 20 years ago. that was then. this is now. everyone seemed to know him then through now but it is what it is. psychologist dr. jennifer duffy that says race isn't necessarily

a psychological disorder and this could be a slippery slope as well. what do you make of this, jen? >> just because you're a little crazy or a racist doesn't mean that you're incompetent. it seems a little ironic that if a week after this all broke they were, the naacp was going to award him for all the good work. and one thing that i do know about human behavior what people say and what people do tend to be two completely different things. he made statements on his opinion and life experiences that might have been considered inappropriate or racist but then you look at all the work that he has done, how many minorities he has employed, his behavior certainly shows he isn't. neil: 100 hours of audiotape coming back to bite him, right? they feel that is, they feels pinned into a corner to do something about it. >> true. i don't really know where this is coming from and who determined he was incompetent. that is really more of a legal term and generally can somebody make reasonable life decisions,

manage their own personal affairs. a week prior or for all the years he owned this >> said the rash remark, the doctor did, was manifestation of bizarre behavior but you could sa that of billionaire. maybe even the one who bought the team. now, i know steve ballmer fairly well and i would say he is a passionate, energetic guy. i wouldn't address an annual meeting the way he does. i will give him high marks for passionate energy, not your typical software executive. but there could be another doctor watching, maybe, you know, reknowned psychiatrist, psychologist like yourself and say, that guy shouldn't own anything? >> well i mean he purchased the team. it is his team to do what he sees fit with. i don't see what makes him incompetent. and why he can't continue owning the team. i mean obviously he made some inappropriate comments. even if you were to determine if somebody is fit to stand trial. they only have to know what the role of a judge and jury and prosecutor is so.

neil: i think this was trumped up to get sterling the hello hell out of the way, sell his team and even if his wife ask making decision. i think he is fine with it. it seemed like a weird way to end this process. >> it does. it seems like they're looking for some sort of legal hoop hole to get him out of there. from a psychological standpoint i'm not buying it. neil: imogen, people say after the fact we pin some reasons to some mental ma laddie here? >> maybe at some levels. at the end of the day is this about mon from the nba they need to protect the brand. 2 billion-dollar brand. incredibly valuable to the los angeles community athletes. that on some level is what this is about, protecting a brand. neil: i'm wondering, i would ad mitt talk was half a billion it was a lot. it talk ad billion. i hear two billion thing. whoa. making fun of steve ballmer thing, a couple people close behind him. oprah winfrey almost got the team with a group.

so crazy or not, we could have a separate argument about the mental dexterity of the folks who buy these teams but obviously they see it as a reason to buy them. >> yee. look i think sterling is morally incompetent. i don't think he is mentally incompetent. and mental incompetency and hatred are two entirely different things. it set as dangerous precedent. say franchise owner, in non-hate r hateful way could you say that is hate speech and potentially take his franchise? i don't think it is a -- i think it's a dangerous precedent. neil: gary b., what is what worried me to her point the mark cuban and comments he made during the week, some of his behavior would be deemed to be racist. and, run across the street if he saw an african-american youth walking his way in a hoodie. could that come back to bite him, if he is in some financial

trouble? >> yeah, absolutely. this to me is very tortured logic even if it is just legal logic. i don't see, maybe he can't by terms of his, you know, selling the team but it would seem like donald sterling could sue the nba and then open up the records of all the other owners. in fact, you think about it, it really opens up all pro sports. is dan snyder racist because he insists having redskins as the name of washington's football team? isn't everyone, every owner opened up to this kind of thing? i would think so. neil: do people ever seek you out, doctor, and say, can you confirm for us this person is this or that? >> oh, absolutely. neil: what do you do? >> i give them a mental status exam. i do standardized personality tests to know who they are, where they are, when they are. are they able to process -- neil: can you see through if you're faking? >> a lot of time you see inconsistencies what they're saying. look at donald sterling and what he was able to do in growing

value of that team. he can't be that crazy. might be crazy like a fox. neil: i think it was all planned. everything he is doing setting up for $2 billion payoff. >> he is laughing all the way to the bank. who is crazy? neil: who is crazy is right. come come up, this would be for young people, certainly than me, because i didn't have email in college, all your emails, everything you ever e mailed people back in college, everything, the good, the bad, the ugly, the lascivious, comes back and all gets published. it just happened. ceo is doing the best ralph kramden i ever heard. after this.

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neil: all right. you thought when you hit delete on the email it just went away.

this is proof our digital footprint stays with us forever. snapchat ceo evan spiegel found out the hard way. explicit emails, leaked, dumped for the world to see. here are a few pg emails he said to his college fraternity. shopping list, one kilo of blow. see everyone on blackout express soon. this kid was on route to becoming a billionaire. rage bummer, at least we have another tray of rubbing alcohol jell-o flavored shots. back with our all-stars, kaley and kerrey and imogen. there are many more offensive ones we did not get into. imogen, i got to wonder, what you think about the guy, sound childish. lou, he was in clerks only like a couple years ago, having said that that is what is scary here. all this just gets resurrected and dumped for the world to see.

>> it is important what you said there, a couple of years ago. so he should have known better. when i was at university way back when kaley wasn't even born, we did do emails but we had no idea what the internet was going to become. neil: you had internet, in my day -- >> you have no idea, would be shocking. in the facebook age every kid knows out there everything is online everyone can access it. neil: weird the way it got out. there were a lot of, but it got out. but it is what it is. >> that is asinine. he should have known better. >> understood. >> a lot of people say things, i understand this, this is beyond the line. he was objectifying women. neil: we left that out. >> it is terrible what spiegel did and he apologized. he took responsibility. i think that is good. i also things unfortunately will turn out okay for him because he is shiny example of misogyny in bill clinton turned out to be just fine. neil: references to that as well. interesting, gary b. smith, this

is the same guy, memory serves me right turned down a $3 billion for offer for his company and because he thought he could have gotten better offer. he still might. if the arrogant emails shows halt at thisnes however on jibbing tiff you think they are. what do you think? >> look, i say, i go back to your original point. he was in college. yes, maybe per imogen's point he should have known. he is in college. i don't care if it is -- neil: not like you or me saying we were in college. of course you're a young man. of course, lincoln was president when i was in college. so, i would have a -- just young impressionable kid. this guy was a young impressionable kid like now! this is only couple years ago. >> well, look, okay, let's just say he was impressionable and he should have known. can we give him benefit of the doubled maybe he learned something over the past few years? these were private -- neil: thank you for bringing us back to decency.

he is right. let's move on. what do you think? imogen? >> this issue of privacy is always now become a big thing. in europe you've been reporting on google all day of the they have in right to be forgotten. google is introducing this if you're a british citizen you live in britain you can email google to try to g stuff taken down. there is whole thing right to privacy and so forth but at the end of the day every kid knows, every kid knows, every kid new in 2009 if you write something, electronically it will come out. neil: deleted doesn't really go away. you two ladies, don't mind me sounding sex it here, you've met guys like this. >> yeah. neil: been repulsed by guys like this. >> yeah. neil: this just feeds your worst suspicions. so that is the prism which you're judging him. gary and i are trying to be very fair and balanced about this and you're just not. >> gary, i'm sorry, i think you're wrong on this i think went beyond frat boy tom-foolery. oh, you're young in college.

these were horrific things. neil: he apologized. you don't buy the apology. >> it is in the past. they happened in the past. neil: that was months ago. >> i think his true character will come out in time. this went beyond of average frat boy back and forth. >> this is not normal behavior. >> then don't buy his product. >> tell me the truth. you've seen all the other emails, right? i have seen or heard worse. >> it is with pretty disgusting. neil: yes it was, but i'm saying is that typical of a lot of -- >> no. i not heard that bad. neil: who are you hanging out with? the pope? >> certainly not. neil: really? so gary b., what happens to this guy? i think this just comes and goes but obviously someone hates hip a lot? >> i think it does come and go because in the end, money is going to speak, right or wrong. i think he is entitled to his his privacy and go on to be a zillion nair and we won't be talking about this a month from now. neil: i wonder if they had e-mails back in my day, what

they would have said. nice personality. that's about it. more after this. are we still onr tomorrow? tomorrow. quick look at the weather. nice day, beautiful tomorrow. tomorrow is full of promise. we can come back tomorrrow. and we promise to keep it that way. driven to preserve the environment, csx moves a ton of freight nearly 450 miles on one gallon of fuel. what a day. can't wait til tomorrow.

>> what's the deal, neil? neil: what is the deal with the musical chairs and fingerpointing at the va? eric shinseki is out. maybe it is not who is running shop. the veterans agency itself is functional. any hospital system that keeps its patients waiting sometimes for years for basic treatment, maybe that is in need of an emergency operation? gmail, why is there a va system to begin with? any veteran should be able to go to any doctor or hospital he

chooses, public, private, or non-profit and get the best of care and have it paid for by the taxpayers. simply because they earned that privilege. i think you're dead on right. they have earned that and they have not earned having to sit and stew. paula emails, i'm small independent medical office in ohio. i'm open to seeing veterans in my office but red tape of the government makes it hard. scott writes, i'm disabled veteran on the va since 1979. you're right on track. the wait problem is just the door. when it gets in, it gets worse. danny via yahoo!, if anyone wants to get to the bottom of va shame, find out who paid bonuses and rao receives them. the crime always lives with the money. there were inordinant numbers bonuses for so-so behavior. you might be on to something. pm, gmail, call it prelude to obamacare. doesn't give you encouraging to the government taking over something big.

michael, military specialist in germany, how is it our government will not disclose the environment soldiers have been exposed only so they know the eventual results to their bodies? >> ron in hunt tingeing beach. neil, the va mess is not barack obama's fault, eric shinseki fault orh's fault. it only proves that government is not capable of running a health care system. >> joanie via gmail, are we really surprised about government-run health care how we're treating our vets? we shouldn't be. what is the deal of the irs raiding a small business company's bank account because it just suspected that something untoward was going on? nothing was. but apparently it was legal just the same. steve writes, it is the world's largest and most powerful collection agency. nobody is safe. i would rather run afoul of the mob than the irs. adrian that tweets, the irs needs major oversight like the va. amy, never had any trust in the irs, much less the government.

fend for yourself or forget it. and 2 billion bucks for the l.a. clippers. who is really the fool? supposedded racist selling the team, or the billionaire, former software titan buying it? ryan tweets, chanc like that don't happen every day. yes, they are worth $2 billion. really? heath tweets, i'm thinking that donald sterling may be smarter than anyone thought. i am thinking you're right. alan tweets, if headphones are worth $3 billion, then the clippers are worth, $2 billion. very good point. one more tweet. i guess it only matters if mr. ballmer thinks the clippers are worth $2 billion. another good point and apparently he does. so someone is willing to pony up the cash. i should stress there are other bids very close to mr. ballmer's. one group that included oprah winfrey, that was north of $1.6 billion. the fact of the matter a lot of people were willing to pay a lot of bucks for this team.

so, it's a buyers market. and all you team owners are, in clover. that will do it. safe weekend. . >> if i'm going to help my brain come to fruition, i'm going to have to feed it quality nutrition. >> the food police are here, eager to force us to eat better. >> the epidemic is worse than previously estimateed. >> over 95% of all americans will be overweight or obese in two decades. >> over 95% of us? >> say no, gmo. john: do you know what's in our foods. >> poison, classified as poison. john: and you better not eat meat. >> i haven't made a steak ever. john: some say don't eat anything with a face. >> so many different types of vegan alternatives to cheese, milk, ice cream. john: