achieve your retirement dreams. >> how about you? >> stick with the diamonds. choice is great but the diamonds are good too. >> if you don't listen to these ideas, we told about the pig. that's all i'm saying. fox news continues now. do we need a d-day for the va? 70 years ago america's heroic soldiers were rushing the shores of normandy to save the world and that spirit of self-sacrifice continues with our vets to this very day. you would think washington would be rushing to help them with their medical care. well, not so but we have a solution. vouchers for vets. letting them get private care outside the broken government system. is that the answer? hey, everybody, i'm david azman welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus with steve forbes, elizabeth mcdonald,

sabrina shaffer. >> why shouldn't they have choice? veterans above the age of 65 should be able to go on medicare and choose medicare facilities. the va does a handful of things very well. it's the least we can do for them. >> what do you think? >> fight for them. i just worry that congress is going to nickel and dime this kind of voucher system that by the way the american legion doesn't like and neither does the other veteran's groups. sort of like what they did with medicare advantage. i just worry that with the way congress is behaving they'll say to the vets here's your green stamp of a voucher because we cut it back and nickel and dimed you so much and moving them into the private sector hospitals are becoming more like the dmv with obamacare and waiting lists there. that's an issue too. >> well, we want choices. as americans, we want choices and no americans deserve that

more than the vets, right? >> yeah, well any time you empower the buyer with choice, you're going to get a better health care and better health care outcome but if we love the veterans and we do, why would we have ever voiced it upon them, the substandard doctors and administrators that will be in a nonmarket program like the va. we should have let them out long ago. >> we should have. but rick it was the idea that nobody can do it better than the government and that idea is proved false, right? >> well, i'm not sure it's quite that simple to be honest with you. i will see say this. maybe even in the long-term, absolutely in the short-term. we know there's a problem getting these people in. we can't just let them sit and wait the way we have been doing it. if nothing else we should create a voucher system that lets them get the care they need today. beyond that, let's be careful we don't throw out the va. there's a lot of things they do better than anybody else and just quickly let me add, we did

take steps this week with the bipartisan agreement in the senate that may lead to solving some of these problems including the opportunity. >> but sabrina, i get the idea, actually i think john mccann was one of the first to put forth the idea of vouchers for vets. democrats hate the word vouchers because they think of vouchers for school choice and perhaps being used within obamacare and that they are allergic to that term. do you get that sense? >> i think you're right. what we want is to make all hospitals va hospitals, right? we want choice, flexibility and competition and i they democrats do recoil from that whole concept, right? the law that passed or the bill that passed in the house and the companion bill in the senate that looks like it will pass is expanding opportunities to go outside of the va system. but it's not full choice. it's not full competition. that's the only way if we give veterans ownership and control just like all americans should have over their health care

dollars that we'll see an improvement. >> as our options are narwing because of obamacare, i think it would be a perfect time to sort of expand our options a little bit. at least for one group of americans. >> yeah. well, i agree with vouchers but she said something really smart here and that's that it is going to add to the crowding. it's getting worse in the private health care system. what we need to do is really expand the supply. we need to removehe regulations. we need to bring in market forces and pricing transparency so that we get the steve jobs, the bill gates, the jeff besos and mark zuckerberg of medical technology because if we don't increase the supply and we only increase the demand, it's just going toet worse for everyone, veterans included. >> well, steve, i'm wondering if this awful situation with the va hospital -- if we could turn lemons into lemonade by showing the way to provide more choice for all americans just as e.mac

was saying, maybe we can show how much better it would work if we had more choices. >> that's where vouchers come in because the patient makes the choice. you're not told by a third party where to go we do need that in health care which is not free markets. you get free markets in health care, we'll turn scarsity into abundance. no one starves. we have a lot of food. government doesn't run the foods. if they did, we'd all be starving. >> rick i saw you shaking your head. >> first let me point out that i'm a democrat and i can tell the vouchers -- >> new democrat. >> and yet i can still tell the difference between a voucher for the va and voucher for education. not all democrats are allergic i to the word. >> what is the difference? >> actually there's a big difference. vouchers for school says you can go outside of your district which would destroy a school district. voucher for getting medical care

if you're eligible for the va means you can choose whatever doctor you want. >> forgive me. >> quickly e.mac go ahead. >> we have no shortage rich when it comes to medical technology. >> my god, we have a shortage of doctors, wait a second. >> that's what i was going to say. >> all right. >> what we have a shortage of is physicians. >> so here's the thg, listen, the problem right now and here, to rich's point about getting more medical technology. the thing is, how do you get -- to your point too, david, how do you get privatized sinking into a very like, you know, sclerotic system growing around us right now. it's really hard to fire people in the va hospitals. so you want to get the good guys in there and you want to get better care. >> but it's not changed. you reached the point that va hospitals are dominated

practically like no other government bureaucracy by public sector unions that make it almost impossible to fire people. >> congress passed a law. >> you can't get any kind of dynamic change in that sort of environment and to rick's point that we have technology, look, a machine today is like a mainframe computer 30 years ago. we need a revolution that completely changes the way we think about creating and delivering health care products and services. it could be really great. one of the union agreements with the va talk about unions is 316 pages. you talk to doctors there, it's impossible to get real accountability. >> and i know rick is against monopolies in the private sector. the worst are monopolies in the public sector. we want to get rid of them. >> it's not a knock on government to say that anything the government wants well, the private sector can do much better. this is applied to the things the government does well.

let some rise and if so you get the entrepreneurs who will come in and give better health care at better prices. let the entrepreneurs into the system. >> let's prove, okay, we have this test, whether the public sector or private sector does better. let's roll out that experiment and see how that works with the va and how the vouchers work with education and how they work within obamacare. >> this is why i think we need to have a conversation about which policies are best. i know that there is an absolute urgency right now to handle this situation. it should have been handled decades ago but the reality is there are different draw backs and positive forces for different kinds of policies. vouchers in education are not a silver bullet. there's l sorts of problems withthem. i think we need to open this conversation up and not rush so quickly that we actually make a bigger mistake. >> but steve, what is a solution is competition. and with every monopoly that

squeezed out competition, the worst monopoly is a public sector monopoly and you have problems. >> it's part of the government going nowhere. it's changed the whole world and cell phones, $3,995. >> let's start with the va. the vets deserve it. up next, the white house not get hammered over the prison swap with terrorists but now critics are warning that the u.s. is giving our tax dollars to terrorists who hate us. at

1:00 p.m. for america's news headquaters. now back to forbes on fox. >> what was lost in all of that news was this news, israeli leaders pounding the administration for agreeing to spend hundreds of millions of your tax dollars to fund the palestinian group that just welcomed the hamas organization into the poll. the same that hates america and is responsible for hundreds of terror attacks killing innocent people and devoted to the destruction of israel. what do you think of this? >> as they say there is nothing new under the sun. going back for the entire duraon of president obama's administration we have seen that his commitment to israel is questionable. i was on the ground as a reporter in jerusalem. i saw this in 2009. the people of israel have seen that obama, he puts their interests below the interest of the palestinians so this is no

surprise. >> bill, is there any justification at using our tax dollars going to hamas? >> i'm going to count it as a maybe on this one. the reason is that i think all foreign aid should be distributed to a small group of countries on the basis of good behavior. a country should be scored for democracy for women's rights, for property rights and for free speech. i would allow the palestinians to enter the competition. i wouldn't expect them to win. >> but you don't get the award for the competition before the competition. the fact is that they proved that they are terrorists. you don't give them the money first and then expect them to behave well. you wait until you see whether they behave well, don't you? >> yes, you do. sometimes you have to take a chance. nixon went to china. reagan decided he could deal. but the problem with hamas is a high ranking hamas official was recorded on video as calling for

the end of israel and i don't think you can deal with people like that. >> i think i'm with you guys on this. i'm not a big fan of hamas but since my role on this show is to give an opposing point of you voo i will only say this, keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer. >> but america is legally required to cut funding to hamas. it would be illegal for this to happen. >> we should mention it is still listed as a terrorist organization by the state department. steve it is not complicated about hamas. as is mentioned in their charter they call for the destruction of israel and killing of jews. we'll put up the list of almost 1,000 people we can document that they're guilty of having killed. >> that's right. and we gave mon to north korea

to help the food crisis there. where did the money go? their nuclear program and military. same thing with hamas. if they denounced terrorism and recognized israel as an enemy in that part of the world, you pony up money but after they have shown good behavior. egypt got aid after they signed an agreement with israel in the late 1970s. but don't do it in advance. you'll fund the very thing you're fighting against. >> we have been ponying up a lot of money. since 2010 the palestinian authority received $1.9 billion. now, we want to give hundreds of millions to an organization we know has a terrorist within it. >> well, you know, to me whether they're terroristsor n or not i the point. why are american workers on the hook for a wellbeing of friend or foe around the world. when governments spend they

subtract capital from businesses. i think that's the bigger problem with this. >> but rich, specifically terrorists. there are some organizations, some of which are close to president obama like c.a.r.e. which does not say hamas is a terrorist organization even though they kill innocent people which is the definition of a terrorist organization. we're not working from the same definitions here. >> well, we're not working from the same definitions but one of the huge flaws of this administration is their gullibility. you know,the liberals of a certain kind just want to believe in good intentions all the time and to heck with the consequences and i think that's where they find themselves trapped. >> bill, shouldn't we at least -- i hear what you're saying that sometimes you can encourage people to do the right thing but in this case, do you really think you'll encourage these people not to act like terrorists? >> well, i agree with everybody

else. you have to wait until after they behaved well. there's no way they'd win right now. >> but they're getting the money now. >> that's the point. >> that's a bad idea. it's not just that country. we have been giving away way too much money to way too many bad countries for 50 years. >> steve, go ahead. final word. >> the bottom line is no money to bad actors trying to fight these terrorists while we're funding them. it's amazing they can be called anything butter rists. they kill innocent people, period. do you use food stamps? then you better not use illegal drugs. one state wants to clean up abuse but the federal government is blocking it's clean up plan. find out why on cashing in. that's coming up, but food, coffee, electric bills, every price is spiking upwards taking a big fight out of the family budget but maybe not

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now it's your cup of joe giving your wallet a jolt. smuckers jacking up prices on coffee brands by nearly 10%. erything is rising from food to home energy bills. but we have a fix that comes right out of steve forbes new book called money. steve, very simple, bring back the gold standard. explain. >> that's right, david. we had a gold standard from the beginning of this country right to the early 1970s and then we went off the gold standard. we have been paying the price for it ever since, especially if recent years. if we had the growth rates, historic growth rates since the

1970s. the economy today would be 50% bigger than it s. we're paying a price, stagnation, social divisions, bad all around. >> bill, do you have a problem with that? >> well, i share steve's skepticism about currency. that's the funny money that the federal reserve prints off. however i'm not sure that bringing back gold is going to solve o country's economic problem. it's from a lack of jobs and i'm not sure that hoarding gold is going to inspire corporations to employ more people. >> well, by the way, before we went on, there's a big chapterer in this book about why we should return to the gold standard. steve deals with all of the naysayers in that pretty well. what do you think about the idea? >> i like the idea. maybe you have to have a little bit of flexibility within that but to bill's point, look, companies are not spending money on the future because there'smu markets. too much regulation. the currency is not stable. there's a lot of reasons that

the companies aren't investing in the future. we all agree we would like them to do that but a stable currency puts us that much closer to that happening. >> and e. mac, they don't want these bureaucrats deciding how much the money in our pocket is worth. >> i love this one line from the economist, printing money could crea create wealth then counterfitting would be legal. >> i like when he talks about this and the big gun and the paper money flying out of it. that's what comes to mind. we do have a modern day example. greece couldn't print more money. it muddles through. what would happen in the transition. it would be a rocky time but it's an interesting idea. >> you look at a charge going back to the 1900s. it's so clear that the inflation began when we got off the gold standard in the 1970s. almost directly. >> i'm going to take steve's word for it. i think there was one line that resinated with me and that's that we know how many inches are in a food and we also need to

know what our money supply is worth. that resinated with someone that's not a financial expert. i think that the reality is that we need to get away from the discretionary fed policy we have currently and get our currency tied to something tangible or there will be debates. >> it'seasy to get off of it but isn't it tough to get back on it? >> no, it's easy as saying a clock has 60 minutes in an hour. imagine what life would be like if that fluctuated each day. fix it and these things will happen very quickly. you'd see a boom in this economy along with a flat tax. we'd really rocket ahead. >> we're all about solutions here. we come out with the solutions. we don't just debate. thank you very much. coming up and they're off. california chrome gunning for the triple crown win but before the big race, our informers have the stocks to put you in the winner's circle.

we're back with our own triple crown winners for you. >> they're backing up the truck on this one buying shares. it's got strong earnings potential and growth according to wall street analysts. >> bill, what about according to you. >> yes but the really smart money is buying a sister company called kinder morgan, inc. >> why do you like the company? >> beer has been in a strong up trend since 3000 b.c. i expect the trend to continue. >> it's coming in strong but you would get a heck of a hangover

if you bought now. >> keep the picture up on her. i want to congratulations elizabeth on a wonderful new book. it's about a religious heroin. a must read this summer. buy it now. here's eric bolling. >> is there a possibility of some of them trying to return to activities? absolutely. >> the president is absolutely right, the taliban is looking forward to kidnapping more americans to swap for more terrorists. did the president just cost us the war on terror? plus chew on this uncle sam, taxpayers, uncle sam tells one state it cannot drug test people getting food stamps and then al gore claims he created the internet but is a part of his climate agenda creating infidelity too. global warming is causing couples to cheat. plus remember the