the stock picker but the investor. >> i know if you by the spiders if you are not already rich you won't get chchchchchchchchch. >> maybe over 40 years. you can call it economic shock. it turns out the first quarter was a lot worse than anybody imagined, the gdp suffering the worst down turn outside of a recession in more than 50 years. white house and other democrats blaming it largely on bad weather but some saying they should get a mirror. welcome to "forbes on fox". john, what is holding the economy back? the weather or the government? >> well, the good news and the bad news is that economic growth is truly easy and a function of government getting out of the way. it is government policy.

if you made me dictator i would zero out the capital gains tax. there are no companies and no jobs without investment first. i cut the corporate tax. there is no reason to rob corporations of the successful future. i free up trade to specialize in the work we do best. good money is the path to major investment and trade and that is the path to prosperity. >> look at all of the capital in this country that is frozen. i mean, this country relies on capital to get things started. all of this money is sitting on the sidelines. corporations $1.5 trillion. private equity funds. they are not investing the capital. how do you get that capital working? >> here is what i'm prepared to say about it and it will surprise some of you and our viewers. we have to leave the politics out of this at this point. whatever we have been doing we have to say it ain't working which means we have to try something else. i'm not convinced as to what

that something else should be. i know the first thought will always be tax cuts. for my research it has never really worked before and doesn't mean it won't work this time. what i do like in what john said although i don't think i'm prepared for him to be the dictator, i think maybe the place to start is with the corporate tax cuts and to see if that actually simulates things. >> the dictators, by the way are usually the ones who get itag/j wrong. the people usually get it right. just when all of the so-called experts said the first quarter was going to be great 74% of americans said they felt they were in a recession. the americans got it right, the experts got it wrong. >> a lot of those people are small business owners. i go for a different type of tax cut. i go for a reduction in government spending. that worked very well for bill clinton and left more capital

for the private sector and strengthens the dollar which really helps investment in this country and will get some of the money moving out of the banks and into the economy. >> and bruce if companies do not invest they don't grow. if they don't grow they don't hire people. so how do you get them to invest all of that capital that they have? >> i would say borrow a chapter from the legendary iowa football coach who would say scratch where it itches. health care is growing. health care is an area that continues to grow. why don't we embrace obamacare? you have all of this money coming towards it anyway and hiring people and people are spending money in hospitals that have stashed a lot of cash are starting to spend a lot of money. it is an area where the economy is growing so we can focus on health care. >> as rick unger points out that was one of the problems. people were not spending the money. a lot of people cut back but let

me focus on one thing in particular. it was mentioned before the corporate tax rate in america is the highest in the world. it is also one of the most complicated in the world while we top out at 40% a lot of companies only talk about the big corporations and pay about 20% because they get the deductions. it is so high and so complex shouldn't we start there? >> i think this is all about simplifying the tax system. our marginal tax rate and corporate tax rate are too high. it is too complicated of a system for individuals and businesses. all of this allows for more corruption at the irs. we can get rid of these problems and spur something growth by simplifying the tax system. >> how about doing it for the whole nation? not just for the corporations but for everybody? >> i would love to see simpler taxes. i have a different thought which is i would like to make it

easier for companies to add workers. what if we had a duty free zone for new employment. if you go from 1000 employees to 1,050 you can take on 50 freelanceers. it means the work is responsible for his own payroll taxes and the employer is not subject to the regulations plus payroll taxes plus obamacare and lawsuits if they don't do it right. they can do anything they want. after about two years i give them a deadline and they have to make honest employees out of the new workers. that experiment might allow them to bring new talent and say we are doing better. >> what do you think? >> i think sabrina's way is much simpler. the corporate tax really is just a pass through tax. corporations pay that off by either increasing prices on what they sell or paying their workers less. get rid of the corporate tax. it is a phony tax that hits consumers and workers and you get to solving what bill is trying to do in a much better

way. >> i have heard democrats come out and say the corporate tax is too high and should be simplified. we should get rid of the deductions and have a flatter rate. >> if we are going to get serious about tax cuts at this point because the other way isn't working that is the place to start. i want to add something about the health care part of this. it's sometimes hard to find something good in such bad news and these numbers were bad, bad news. there was a substantially lower rate of spending in health care than what had been anticipated which accounted for the drought. that might be very good news. it does beg the question if people didn't spend the money on health care why didn't they take that money and spend it somewhere else? >> people tend to hold on to what they have in bad economic times. i want to ask about the duty free zone. what do you think of that idea? >> i think that we should be a nationwide duty free zone.

lest we forget we look at hong kong everything is duty free and the result is free trade countries are prosperous because you get to trade with others around the world who are doing what they are best at. anytime you opened up our markets you greatly enhance prosperity and quick. >> i have always thought it was kind of simple because you look around at what works and what doesn't work and you paep the policies that work and get rid of the policies that don't work. when you look at hong kong and the growth they had it was through the roof. shouldn't we model ourselves after what works? >> well, i think that certainly you have a great point there. one of the big issues on changing the tax code is how you are going to do it. i mean, congress, these people couldn't put together a two car funeral. perhaps the senate changes next year we could do something. you talk to the members of congress and they are like we can't do anything because of this party or that party. and all of these are really good ideas.

how are you going to get it done? >> it is very frustrating when you look at what those idiots inside the beltway can manage to screw up even when they agree on something. i mean, that simpson bowls thing. it never got done. when are they ever going to do something that works? >> i agree it is very complicated. there is a lot of special interests and a lot of people on the hill who are reluctant to take the step and questions the relief why it can't be tax cuts and the regulatory side we have to pay attention to. it would be great for tax cuts that we are advocating for but i want to see washington get out of the work place all together and stop changing the wage structure and stop expanding medical and family leave. all of this is burdensome on businesses small and large. so we have to have both sides of this. >> one of the biggest contra

dictions in the world is the fact that john tandy lives in washington, d.c. is there any hope that democracy that republicans, democrats working together will get the job done at some point? >> i'm the mole inside this awful place. in terms of them getting something done color me skeptical because for congress to do this, if it to flatten taxes is for congress to give away enormous amounts of power. they like taxes to be high so they can give out favors in terms of deductions. the problem is the incentives following politicians. the robots, why all of those protests could be back firing on the very workers they were supposed to help. fourth of july is coming, and that means this,

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ica, we need to leave right now!s at squarespace. - ( pop music playing ) - i need to get something!

- dance recitals are so boring. - ( video game noises ) ♪ there's a me no one knows ♪ - ♪ waiting to be set free... - so what's the empty suitcase for? the grand prize trophy. duh! ( jessica speaks ) ♪ i was born to be somebody... ♪ p.m. we take you back now to "forbes on fox". so we told you this might happen as more cities and states hike the minimum wage and president obama keeps pushing for 39% hike nationwide. more companies are looking to replace workers with cheaper machines. mcdonalds said to be testing a mobile app that lets customers use a phone to order food. are the protesters pushing themselves out of a job? >> this is a law of unintended

consequences. it is so easy for big corporations to want to see the minimum wage go up for two reasons. they can push out small mom and pop competitors and easy to get rid of low paying jobs with things like square or as you suggest we won't need cashiers. there are all sorts of ways this will help the big corporations while hurting the little ones. >> nobody is against progress. progress is a good thing. if people automate in ways to make things more efficient that is good. the fact is these folks may be pushing businesses just over the edge. it wasn't affordable for them to do in the past but when you hike minimum wage it is. >> when it comes to technology i think businesses want to do what is best for the customer. i don't think companies are sitting in back rooms and saying let's create something that is going to make things more

efficient and use lower labor costs. the minimum wage, i think, needs to go up and rising tides lift all votes. it is time for that. >> are the minimum wage hikes pricing some workers out of existence? >> that has always the case. unfortunately, i think when it comes to technology and increasing productivity higher minimum wage hurts companies because it lowers profits and that is where the money comes from to increase technology. this last quarter lowest productivity figures since 1990. it shrank by the largest amount in 24 years. you don't want to start monkeying around under those circumstances. >> i love the tv show "the simpsons" and the boss in there, the mean guy, mr. burns. most bosses particularly small companies care about their employees. they really don't want to get rid of them but sometimes they

can't afford to keep them. >> no. it is called progress. progress has been happening since time began. if mcdonald's can put in a system that makes it easier for them and their clients it has nothing to do with the minimum wage. sabrina, news flash for you, if you think the minimum wage will result in large companies shutting down mom and pops one word for you, wal-mart. it happened a very long time ago. today's minimum wage is not a factor in that discussion. >> sabrina, i will give you a chance but i want to get bill in and then i will come back to you. >> i think there is a problem with high minimum wages that goes way beyond whether things get auto mated. that is the customer. a lot of people who shop at wal-mart are not very wealthy. if the hamburger costs more because the hamburger supplier and worker costs more they eat at home. that is the problem. you can see that very well.

starbucks can easily eliminate a lot of what goes on behind that bar with automation. they don't because they want to vent an experience where you see your coffee being made. >> sometimes if you raise minimum rage that experience goes away. you can't afford it. >> i really do think these two are unrelated. i tend towards rick on this one. the reality is businesses are not in business to create jobs. if you look at cars, computers, internet huge job destroyers created better jobs. i think robotics and automation will make businesses more profitable which means they can expand and create more jobs down the line. >> sabrina? >> only one hardware store left where i live i think because of big box stores. i like being able to get affordable goods. the fact is they do push out

mall businesses. they are able to absorb the costs differently. and to john's point i am all for progress. if the government gets in the way and pushes up the minimum wage they are going to -- these low skill jobs are going to be lost because of government intervention. >> that is the point is that the folks striking they want to keep the workers in power and pay them more money. they are fighting progress, are they not? >> it is the union bosses because the money flows up from the fees and that is what they get to influence government with. >> we have to leave it with that. president obama citing france for pushing new work place rules. on cashing in at the bottom of the hour. right here dirty jobs host mike

roe standing up for businesses that shame suspected shop lifters by posting pictures in the store.

so what is so wrong with shaming? dirty jobs host mike rowe is taking heat after speaking up for a liquor store owner who posts a picture of thieves he catches shop lifting in his store. some say it is going too far.

>> it is the right of the business owner to expose those thieving from the property. >> no, it is not. it amazes me that people who love to thump the constitution turn against it. you are not a shop lifter until convicted of being a shop lifter. what if you were standing behind the guy on tape and decided you were a part of it even though you had nothing to do with it? >> don't private owners have the right to do this? >> how about if the business were a bum i could go on yelp. >> does the business have the right? >> yes, it does. >> yes is an opinion. >> if i had a business i wouldn't do it. i would be concerned about collateral damage. and i have to side with rick on this. how far do we want to go to

posting people as guilty? >> that is kind of a scary point. we have gotten to this point in our society where even if you believe in private property you are afraid to do something like this. >> i think it is like the modern day stock aid. the question is not should we have public shaming but what are we shaming people about? i like this because instead of asking government to get in the way we have a strong civic society standing up and saying enough is enough. >> what do we need courts for? >> i'm saying there is social pressure. >> you are not a shop lifter -- >> we want to say the owner has cut the shop lifting five times since he began this. what about rick's point that these shop lifters have not been convicted? they may have evidence that the guy posts in the window. >> assuming rick's scenario it

is the right of the business owner to be a fool about his own business. >> business owners have to follow the constitution like everybody else. >> it has nothing to do with the constitution. >> don't i have freedom of speech? don't i have the right to say that? >> no. >> no. >> holden a second. >> when the lawyers get ahold of you you will be intimidated. >> what happens if the lawyers do come out and some get the lawyers. i don't know what they are going to convict these shop owners on, do you? >> i think there is probably a lot of leeway. somebody used the example of yelp. if you say so and so did a bad job cutting my hair and everybody else thinks she did a great job you are not going to get sued. you are saying this is my property. >> we have run out of time. >> if you listen to these guys you would have more money in

your pocket. get the names they say will make your wallet even fatter in the second half.

and we are back with the best stocks for the second half of the year. union pacific. >> this company's stock is cheaper than rivals. >> i don't like the first half of the name. >> road runner transportation system. what is it? >> it is a trucking company.

it's union liked. >> i don't like the fact that profits fell while revenues went up last quarter. >> watch out, folks. that's it for "forbes fox". the number one business blog continues. capitalism, president obama saying work place should be more like france's. pardon my french but are new work rules about to send u.s. jobs down the latoilet. a new poll shows the majority of americans smell cover up in the irs scandal. why is mainstream media turning a blind eye to what is going on. >> next time i think it is likely to be far deadlier. >> former vice president dick cheney says