>> sdi. they tend to do well. we like the income. >> guys thank you all very much. cost of fr now on the place for business. fox all the others are fakes. a government-run sting of obamacare showing how taxpayers are getting stunning. >> we used fictitious identity, false information and forged documents as well as instructions from the marketplace itself. we continue to receive subsidized coverage for all applications including those where we didn't request any supporting documents. >> 11 out of 12 fraudulent policies totals $2,500 a buck. this is more proof obama care is rife with fraud, ripping

taxpayers off. are they right? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. let's go into it with our panel. you have been warning about this for a long time. >> yeah. this is literally rolling out the welcome mat for scamsters. i love how that gao guy was testifying to an empty room. democrats and people who support obamacare treat this like a flaming cactus. this is basically the gao saying this. we have attorneys general across the country from new hampshire to california fearing obamacare is one big house of fraud, so, you know, i don't know where we go with this because with tax credits for obamacare that's literally money out the door. the federal gravy train is leaving the station. >> 11 out of 12 applicants were fraudulent. >> segments like this that can make it uncomfortable to sit in my chair. i won't defend it. that's awful.

i'll point a few things out. it's a new program. it's not a secret organization that was testing this to see if this was going on. it was the gao. it was a part of the administration. >> part of the government to check out and they found something. you're right. >> at least they are taking the trouble to find out where the problems are. >> they are required by law to do that. but john the point is the only way the affordable care act can be affordable if the applicants commit fraud. that's the only way they get the subsidies. >> the founding fathers wrote the constitution with this kind of fraud in mind. they wanted governance to be local because as taxpayers we can see those doling out our taxpayer dollars if we were around them on a daily basis. when you run a national program this kind of fraud and abuse is inevitable. you know, the reality is that obamacare failed precisely because it turned the founders'

vision on its head and makes governance national. >> john makes a great point. the fact is our constitution limits and divides the power of government. that is its purpose to limit and divide the power of government. this administration, obamacare in particular, grows government and concentrates its power in the fed, in the federal side. >> you're not going to get an argument from me whether the federal government is getting too big. i don't get worried the way elizabeth does. >> why not? >> if i cheat by counterfeiting a $20 bill, if i have a fake social security application, if i have a fake tax refund, i steal money. what happens if i fake insurance? i get to go to the doctor. i just don't criminals lining up -- >> that would be fine if nobody pays for it, but we pay for it. we pay for the fraud. we should mention there's 8 million enrolles in obamacare. 8 million is the most recent number we have.

85% of those enrolles are receiving subsidies. 11 out of 12 applicant were from a -- fraudulent. >> wealked about the state exchanges in vermont where they know that lots of personal identification was being stolen. now the government itself is saying hey we have a major problem. the questi is will anything to be done about it. we have to make sure it is. i disagree with bill. it's not the portal to get into obamacare. once obamacare is in full effect we'll have a national database of electronic records. a one stop shop for identity theft. that is what i'm truly terrified about. >> a database with our personal information as we know from the irs scandals there's all sorts of people that can dig into that information. let's focus on the name the

affordable care act, the subsidies are what makes the affordable care act affordable. if those subsidies are fraudulent or made up this isn't affordable. doesn't the mandate that everybody has to buy insurance go away? >> yeah. in other words propped up with taxpayer dollars so it's really not quote affordable. i know there's different levels of insurance in the exchanges some are more affordable. what strikes me too about this, is where is the hhs inspector general on this. where is thesume protection bureau that elizabeth warren banged on. where are these individuals to stop fraud. when medicare was launched, david, within years you had fraud within medicare. so when you have these gigantic entitlement systems it's like the full employment act for bureaucrats to go chasing. >> hold on a second. rick, you're right. gao, a government organization that discovered this fraud and

our hats off to them. but we have all these organizations that have been created during this administration, to check fraud in the private-sector but not enough to check fraud in the public sector. >> that's not true. you have seen a major increase -- >> the irs. >> we saw a major increase in cracking down on fraud in medicare. i'm trying to find a way to work flaming cactus into this discussion. i love that expression. they are cracking down on fraud. can i remind you that it's not just called the affordable care act it's called the patient protection and affordable care act. >> how about consumer protection act. >> it's not about that. it's patient protection. by the way, affordable care act didn't mean affordable health insurance policies it meant bending the curve of the cost of health care in this country to make it more affordable. >> let's get to one of the points because rick threw a lot out there.

fact is do you think that this government is doing enough to uncover fraud in things like obamacare? i don't. >> of course it's not because it has no incentive to do so and in getting to rick's point about affordable care act and patient protection, if that's our idea, we want to get health care to people and protect the patient why would we give it to the two left footed federal government to distribute this as opposed to giving it to the capitalistic private-sector that's expert at getting things to people affordably. >> isn't that the point? we knew this would happen. all of us have been suggesting this was going to happen for a long time because we know how inefficient the government is. >> there's a lot of fraud going on. let me mention two things the government should be more concerned about than faulty applications. number one, medicare mills where doctors bill the government $2 million a year for procedures that are unnecessary or not even performed and number, two getting back to that whole

database of identity fraud that is going to be a problem. it's already a problem at the irs. we're losing billions that way. >> sabrina, when you look at the way this president has managed his organization, the executive branch for the past three or four years in particular, do you have any confidence that they could manage the roll out of obamacare? >> no. absolutely not. the thing that's most concerning they are almost snubbing their nose at the american people. last august we had more than a dozen states attorneys general write a letter to secretary sebelius saying this is a make problem. i haven't heard anything. this is a major problem. the portal is one thing. it still reinforces the fact that all of our information is going to be out there in this national database that's frightening because it's not simply your financial risk it's your health, it's your life. >> john, your idea i think is brilliant going back to the founding fathers. the idea of a divided government is a good thing.

it creates competition between the powers of government but we are concentrating so much power in the executive and we see the the problems with obamacare, the irs and all the rest of it. >> again, it's turning the founders' vision on its head. we were to find our own bliss. you want a lot of health care you choose new york city you want little you choose texas. this is concentrating power in the federal government. it's going to retard the process whereby we get access to health care. >> a limited and divided government is the best and we're not going in that direction, folks. up next a money saving plan bringing together liberals like ralph na

we'll see you back here at 1:00 p.m. for america's news headquarters. now back to "forbes on fox." so what's more infuriating than corporate welfare. how about your tax $paying for corporate welfare overseas. there's a bipartisan support to abolish it. the it is a government backed export/import bank which shells out billions in loans each year to foreign customers of giant u.s. companies, including firms like solendra and enron. john you say it's time to slay this dragon. >> i want to abolish this bank as soon as humanly possible. why is it that taxpayers are on the hook to subsidize u.s.

corporation sales to foreign entities. the argument of it is it's profitable these loans make economic sense. that's all the more reason to abolish it if these loans would occur without the bank abolish it so these loans can take place in the private-sector. >> rick, there's a convergence if you will between the left and right against corporate welfare. we have people like ralph nader and rand paul getting together against this thing. aren't you >> no. actually i'm not. at the same time you have people like elizabeth warren and chamber of commerce supporting it. you have convergence of left and right on both sides of the issue. >> elizabeth warren has spoken on both sides but now she's a senator she's in favor of it. >> i'm no fan of corporate welfare. but in this case this is helping american businesses to get their products sold overseas. this is the wrong time to take that kind of help away. you take jobs away when do you

that. i actually support continuing it. >> sabrina this is how bad it's gotten. there are cartoons now that you can find on the internet which talk about how politicians sort of rely on their contributions to the bank in order to get re-elected. >> it's giving a helping handout to some great american companies like enron, solendra and boeing so no vote could mean fewer contributions to your re-election campaign. >> now, sabrina, admitt etedly s a cartoon. but is it true corporations kick back to politician who are in favor of this bank >> yes. it might be a cartoon but getting at the real problem of government largesse of corruption. when the government gets into picking winners and losers.

delta airlines has been critical of it because saying look we compete against foreign companies like air india who get loans and subsidies from the bank in order to buy boeing jets. that puts delta airlines at a disadvantage. the question is why are we benefiting one at the expense of the other all at the expense of the taxpayer. >> it sure smells like crony capitalism. >> i'll go home and make my own cartoon. you just inspired me. look, this all sounds great and from an ideological purist point you guys remind me of the environmentalist. they want to knee cap american companies to force people to -- want us to cut carbon here in america but the rest of the world won't follow suit. same thing here. you guys want to knee cap american companies when the rest of the world isn't following suit. there's 60 other countries that have the equivalent and why should we assume they will do the same thing. >> at the same time why should

we -- usually you follow the leader not the loser. >> this is called the bank of boeing. two-thirds go to the ten biggest companies. >> one-third goes to boeing. >> by the way, it goes to financing, helps governments in middle east to buy our products. why can't they get their own money. i understand the argument there's five dozen countries that have this policy but i got to say there's kickbacks, bribery. >> based on that, based on the fact and i you know have spoken out against corporate welfare, but there are kickbacks, rick, on this, aren't there? isn't that unseemly enough to drop it? >> there may be. you may be aware of some cases where that happened. i don't know. >> oh, please. you don't think some of these corporations are getting money, contributions from the companies that they are helping. >> they may well be. i got to tell you what's much more disconcerting, your utter disrespect for cartoons.

>> john, you happen to be in l.a. right now but you live in washington. when i see the left and the right getting together and even cartoons i think maybe there's real hope we're going to change this. september, by the way s-when they have to vote for re-authorization. will it be killed or not? what do you think? >> i think it's going to have to be killed. i don't see how republicans can go to voters in november if they keep this propped up in september. you know, we talk about the jobs allegedly created but when boeing gets a subsidized loan or one of their buyers. the unseen are all the jobs never created because government is directing capital towards favored industries at the expense of those that don't have washington connections. republicans have to let this expire. >> thank you very much. you think corporate welfare is going wild? how about individuals using government issued welfare cards to get cash at pot shops? the outrage of the week on

"cashin' in." two more tragic plane crash, one

it's getting a little scary in the skies. two more air disasters this week, one in taiwan and one in mali. both flying in bad weather and coming on the heels of the plane that was shot down in the war zone in ukraine. one pilot telling me the following. >> these days everything is

about money and obviously airlines are trying to shave off a few minutes of the flight time and save some fuel by going the shortest distance between two flights that happen to be over a war zone. >> sabrina, that guy knows what he's talking about. are airlines putting money over safety. >> i don't think it's quite that simple. i was in savannah. i had to be diverted around a big storm. it took an extra half hour. last night my husband flew from charlotte to d.c. they went around. they shared it with everybody. it's not simply dollars versus safety. i learned about a company that considers all the many variables that a company like airlines have to take into consideration. it's a lot more complicated than the pilot was suggesting. >> this pilot was talking primarily about foreign airlines and foreign airlines the pilot don't have the discretion. they have to follow the flight plans even if it takes them over

a war zone. they can't change it. u.s. pilot kansas. >> that's a great point. u.s. airlines if they crash that demolishes their bottom line. u.s. airlines are heavily regulated. overseas, we lost an entire airplane, the malaysian jet. i missed the memo that the bermuda triangle got bigger. that tells you the safety of overseas. >> should we avoid foreign carriers? >> i wouldn't go that far. overall nationally skboernlly airline fatalities is half of what they were years ago. >> rick, when you hear from pilot whose say that foreign airlines have to go on a route even if the pilot thinks it's unsafe i'll stick with u.s. carriers. >> we all like u.s. carriers. when you're flying in north america and europe one in 25 million chance of going down that means you could fly 60 years every day and never have a

problem. >> john, look at a map. there are travel warnings all over the world right now and, again, some of these airlines are forcing pilots to fly over them. >> i'm not buying it. i think we want to listen to what pilots have to say. the observable reality is that the airlines that have planes that crash will quickly go out of business. malaysian airlines may not survive this. the economic factors to keep passengers safe is way too large to presume this is happening. >> coming up americans making record high contributions to

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of a series. very inexpensive. if your 401(k) plan doesn't have that cheap fund ask for it. >> you like it? >> you should have bought it two years ago. for "forbes on fox." have a magnificent weekend. thanks for watching. keep it right here. it continues with eric bolling and "cashin' in." shocking new video showing rockets being fired from inside russia into ukraine just days after missiles shot down a malaysian airliner. while putin is on his high horse our president, well let's just say he's been horsing around. not us. we got the playbook how to put the bear back in his den. plus texas is being flooded with illegals, the water is being shut off in detroit and our president spent the week, you guessed it, fundraising. is he out of touch or just doesn't care. we debate the presidential state of mind. then your tax dollars going up in smoke.