>> and you like this market even in these bumpy times right now? >> i like it for the long run, yes. i mean, my son and granddaughter will enjoy it. >> well put. thank you. america's news headquaters.merica's news we're taking you back to forbes on fox for all your news headlines go to fox news.com. >> me. >> are you a citizen? >> yeah but does it really matter? >> not anymore unfortunately thank you. >> not anymore. it would be funny if it wasn't so serious and no one knows that better than the family of an off duty border agent in texas. murdered. his father wounded by two illegal immigrants confessing to it. now they're in jail but their wrap sheets showing multiple arrests and multiple deportations and now word of another attack on an agent in texas. is it time to seal our boarders no matter what the cost? hi everyone, welcome to fords on fox.

let's go in focus with steve forbes, elizabeth mcdonald, carrie sheffield. steve what do we do? >> you're not going to perfectly seal a border but a lot more can be done. one is additional assets and two is enforcing additional law. those two guys should be rotting in u.s. jails from what they did several years ago and how about a president that takes border control seriously. his body language made it really clear he couldn't care less about it and that is from foundly demoralizing and reform our own immigration system so those plagued by the rules aren't punished as they are today. >> john, what do we do? >> trying to seal a 1700 mile border will work as well as the drug war meaning not at all. this is a terrible idea for those that like big armed government they would love the idea of increasing border security. the only solution is to allow

market forces to work. those that are ambitious and want to come to this country and work we should allow them to come here. >> do we have boarders or not? if we can't enforce our border controls what are boarders at all? >> right. i agree that it's a difficult problem but we have to close the border. we have to be smart about it. we don't need big government to do this. this administration is not technologically savvy. they cancelled programs very targeted that flag things when we have things that pile up. these illegal aliens had a very long track record and rap sheet and there were no red flags to flag this. >> and they come from a long line of federal agents. this must hurt you a lot. when you see this happen you scream out to do something. >> that's right.

speaking on behalf of all of us, our hearts go out to the family of the security officer here. we talk about this as being an issue about illegal immigrant children. even illegal immigrant children want to grow up in a society that protects it's boarders where they will feel safe and their families feel safe. legal immigrants say that time and again. i'm with steve 100%. seal the border. this is a national security issue. you know australia did it. other democrats are saying yes we should be moving toward this. even terry mcauliffe said seal the border and send them back. >> there's certain examples like aus trail why where they succeeded at this or at least they are at the moment. >> first and foremost you have to have a president that abides by the constitution. no matter what laws we have. no matter how much money we spend. no matter what we do if the president ignores the constitution of this country

none of that is going to matter. this is a president that moved the numbers at time to make it look like we're getting rid of illegal aliens when we're not. they're counting arrests as deportatio deportations. doing all kinds of things except what the president is supposed to do under the constitution which is protect our borders. unless he does that none of it is going to matter. >> i think the border fence is a failure. i'd tear it down. i substitute a national electronic i.d. without which you couldn't work or bank or travel. with technology we could make this country far more secure and the technology in question is not a bunch of chain link fences. >> i'm going to go to you. there are libertarian problem with the i.d. card. >> we will know that the u.s. is going downhill when the ambitious from around the world stop coming and if you want to

seal the border the only way to do it is legalize all work in this country so people don't have to sneak across. to go this other way where people have to go through the shadows you'll never have a secure border. >> to steve there are different kinds of immigrants. a lot of immigrants come here to work hard and do it the legal way and we love those folks. our ancestors were those folks but there's other illegal immigrants like the ones shooting cops at the border that we don't want here or the ones coming in just for the welfare. >> that's why you have to have a new system. have work programs where people come here for a certain amount of time and do certain kinds of work. they would be glad to go home if they knew there was an easy way to get back for periods of time. if you come to this country you dare not leave it. so reform our systems so those that play by the rules get preferential treatment and get expedited treatment but also meet the needs of our labor force whether it's

high-technology or jobs in agriculture and construction instead of ignoring them which is what we're doing now that creates the problem in the first place. >> you're right there's very different kinds of immigrants and liberals want this immigration reform when we already have laws on the books that can be inforced. we need to separate high skilled immigrants from low skilled immigrants. >> does it work? >> no, it doesn't work and the national i.d. bracelet take it off and that creates a bigger bureaucracy. so now the problem is we have teen gang members, gang members and criminals saying our relatives are inside the united states so we should be with them and that has got to stop. even by self-admission these criminals and illegal immigrants and criminals are saying yeah we're members of gangs. why can't we stop that at the border? >> there's a lot of focus on obvious reasons on the kids but there's also teenagers and young

adults that are members of gangs. murderous gangs. >> this goes back to president obama not being interested in enforcing the laws. the administration has passed on orders to the border patrol on how people are used to not enforce the laws. so i don't care whether you have bracelets or no matter what you do, you want preferential treatment. if the president of the united states wants to ignore the law and ignore the constitution there's not much you can do. >> bill i wish it was as easy as a card but sometimes you're stuck with hard decisions that are not easy to enforce like this issue. i don't think a card is going to be enough. >> my card could be adapted to fit steve forbes needs here. for example, my card can say you can come in and work but you're not a citizen. you can come in but you're not a voter and would allow people to get visas and come in and not overstay their welcomes. >> that's assuming the part on a lot of people we're talking about are criminals. i don't know if they would abide by the rules. >> they're not going to register

and bill's faith in government in managing a system like this when even the private sector has huge problems in managing data. the idea the government is going to get it right is preposterous. and once you get it wrong, good luck. you'll be a nonperson. >> this is about fair and just laws. we talk about immigrants coming here legally. it's so unfair. why wouldn't people trying to do it legally move to the border and cross over. it's so unfair to them. >> if the laws were realistic they would come here legally. >> we need laws we can enforce and right now they're not being enforced. coming up next it's bad enough that they make more than the average u.s. worker. well, now some federal workers are getting paid and we kid you not, to do nothing. well, not entirely nothing. they're able to watch television. they're able to walk their dog and that's not the worst of it. stay tuned.

hey, heart, what's this? that's my resignation letter.

you're resigning? why? because you're constantly ignoring me, you're half as active as you used to be and you eat stuff like this! you've been putting me under a lot of pressure, lately. that's why i'm ready to quit! i forgot! i'll do better. please don't quit on me! ok, but remember, it's not what you say, it's what you do. [narrator] listen to your heart. don't let it quit on you. let's go for a walk! [narrator] uncontrolled high blood pressure could lead to a stroke, heart attack or death. t yours to a healthy range before it's too late. 1:00 p.m. for america's news headquaters. now back to forbes on fox. >> while many folks in america are still struggling to find any kind of job government workers are getting paid for walking their dog, washing their clothes, working out and shopping on the internet. this according to a new inspector general report noting that some bureaucrats actually got paid bonuses for all of this with your money. the report also says managers look the other way in order to avoid a fight with a public

union. so how bad is all of this? >> it's really bad. i feel like have fallen through the looking glass here. what does it take to fire a federal worker who is doing internet surfing or going on facebook or going home to do the laundry? we also have david workers in the federal government that are federal unit members looking at the porn at the apa or scc or had you had. we want to get workers paid right but this is really over the line. >> this is not just an exception to the rule. there's a lot of other bureaucrats and other i.g.s raisiing alarms. what do you think about it? >> it wasn't so much a union problem as a management problem and they weren't even doing adequate performance of reviews but one of the things we can look at is this was called to attention by whistleblowers and the inspector generals report so perhaps when we talk about too

much government we should look into more of these reports but then when there are reports from inspector generals the congress doesn't do anything. we have a do nothing congress when it comes to this type of stuff. people need to heed the advice. >> isn't this exactly what we should expect when we have more bloated government? >> absolutely. this breeds this disrespect and negligent for the american people but i tell you look my husband has his own business. if he had an employ that wasn't producing that employee is gone because every dollar an every man hour is poured right back into that business and for the american people that are working so hard to look to washington to say that we're footing the bill for people making close to $100,000 this is morally reprehenceable. >> mike you were mentioning there's a lot of criticism of the president taking executive action. the inspector generals, these

are people needed to watch over these agencies. we had a fox news report this week that they're being stifled. they're not getting the freedom they need to do their work by this administration. >> i saw that. that was a great report. this was something john often speaks about which is government bloat and when you're funding government that isn't subject to market competition forces this is what you get. in the private sector the number of union workers decreased significantly because of global competition. the only way to combat this is to shrink the amount of money in the government. >> but aren't the unions partially to blame for all of this? inspector general said so. >> if there's federal employee with too much time on their hands it's because congress has chose on the make the federal government big. so they have time to crack down on bake sales with cupcakes. they can prosecute you for filling in a wet spot in your

yard and they can go after anything that is part of some obscure federal statute. they went after somebody and confiscated his bagpipe. teenager. >> but the point is i don't blame -- i think you can have a million managers, a million igs and with the government this size you would still have this kind of problem. am i crazy? >> no, you're not. trying to fire somebody in the federal government is virtually impossible and in terms of management reviews you soon learn that if you don't want trouble for yourself you give them a rating or you'll have a long drawn out dispute and court fights and everything else. so they make it big and it gets bigger and bigger as pointed out before by mike and others. when you don't have to answer to customers each and every day this is the kind of thing that happens in a bureaucracy. >> the patent worker office are in a union and the supervisors

are telling the workers just hide that you didn't work and load it into a section called official time or something like that. >> right. >> here's a stat for you. look at this. the federal government fired only 1-half of 1% of its work force in 2011. that was five times fewer the rate in the private sector. >> this was from the ig's own report that the unions were stopping this thing. stopping any kind of investigation into this stuff. >> well, i guess i can say being in chicago which is sort of i think what goes to payroller here but once they called more attention to some of this activity with inspector generals and what we're doing and shining light on it it becomes less prevalent. so the more light you shine on it whether it's an ig or not but you have to have congress do something. >> i wonder how many hundreds, thousands of federal workers aren't getting away with the same stuff. >> well, we had this type of

discussion on this show before david and we highlighted different department with the same type of problem. i just hope voters remember that report that was on box that you mentioned. remember this segment. the next time they go to vote and hear politicians talking about why we need more taxes and tax revenue going to the government because it's total nonsense. >> go ahead. >> it's also driven by politics. so i spend some time at the department of labor. i was brought in because the employees that they had that they were paying for were not adequate so they brought someone else in to take care of the work that those two or three other employees weren't doing. it was so convoluted. people need to sort of see how this works. shrinking the government doesn't mean that government won't be doing things. we have to get rid of the dead weight. >> thanks gang. his comments about u.s. citizens

infected with ebola. plus first the u.s. companies called deserters, unpatriotic but could his plan to

the white house is considering using executive action again, this time to stop u.s. companies moving their headquaters to lower their tax rate. a lot of people are saying it's

just the corporations going to get hit but what about the rest of us? how will it effect the average person? >> put aside the inconstitutionality this is going to mean less investment in the united states. less job creation and less opportunity for people to get pay raises and another thing keep in mind is if you make a profit in the u.s. you will still pay a tax regardless of where you're headquatered. all it means is you don't pay taxes in the u.s. on profits you make on other parts of the world. we're driving away investment and making the u.s. look like an antibusiness environment. the people pay the price for it. the american people pay the price and fewer job opportunities. >> well, bruce, a lot of people looking at corporate tax rates and wondering whether we do have an antibusiness environment. look at this. we have the highest corporate income tax rate in the civilized world. should bit that way? >> well, first of all, in chicago where walgreens is based

that's one of the high profile examples of this. if they would have succeeded with their inversion which they're not going to do, it wouldn't be -- the corporation wouldn't be -- >> hold on a second. inversion is just a fancy word for saying move to another country to have cheaper taxes. >> exactly. and they're merging with a company overseas but they would have gone overseas to relocate their headquaters. would have been a huge loss of tax revenue and when corporations don't pay taxes they're going to look to us but more broadly here the walgreens ceo said that in the end they couldn't do it or they weren't going to do it because they thought that the risk without outweigh the benefits but they were also being chided by not only president obama but the number two to harry reid. >> i have to cut you off. you're taking too much time. the walgreens example is important here. what happened when walgreens said they were not going to leave the u.s. were going to stay here because of pressure. the stock went down 14%.

>> oh, it's very telling. when a president presumes to hold companies hostage in the u.s. that sends a chilling message. businesses are in business to serve shareholders. if you don't serve them they'll move elsewhere and job creation will shrink. >> that's a great point. what does it say when the government tells you where you can and cannot move. >> that's something. i like how the u.k. and ireland are turning themselves into that and we're going the other director and it hurts government workers and teachers whose pension funds invest in these companies trying to lower their bills. >> this is an example of the president that wants to always be in the driver's seat when it comes to businesses with no regard that businesses take into eight lot of different variables and considerations. whether it's about moving your headquaters overseas or equal pay as president was pushing this week. he thinks he can tinker with things without any consideration on what businesses are thinking on their end.

>> coming up lots to worry about 9m the market but not if you get

heart, what's going on? i'm leaving. why? what did i do? not enough. the pressure is too much. i quit! i get it. i can do better. just please...don't leave! [narrator] don't let your heart quit on you. get your uncontrolled high blood pressure to a healthy range before it's too late. three year return on this one. 18%. >> looks good bill. >> it's a lot more expensive than my etf. >> which is? >> on wednesday i bought this from swab and putin won't be

around forever. >> it's like watching crab grass grow. >> that's it for forbes on fox. thanks for watching. keep it here. the number one business block continues now with eric boll and cashin' in. a smack down over ebola. pitting compassion against safety concerns and who wins could decide how costly this deadly outbreak is for you at home. plus listen up, your tidal wave may be crashing. forcing food stamp beneficiaries to work for their benefits is crashing across america. >> and now restaurant customers are seeing it firsthand. cashin' in firing up your weekend starts right now.