[applause] information on the website. >> why am i the only one not holding a puppy? they came for the aftershow. see you tomorrow. the u.n. security council demanding all nations cut off all support to isis. as the u.s. sends more adviserers, weapons and aid help iraq fight isis, and in is why some say we need to defeat them over there right now. [ speaking foreign language ] hmm. very scary words caught by vice news. so how big of a threat is isis to our lives?

to our e kconomy? i'm brenda buttner and welcome to the "bulls and bears." we have trhave tracey byrnes an roachfield, and thank you all for joining me. >> can you imagine what would have happened if we had gotten rid of osama bin laden and not had the children who lost parents, and the $3 trillion that we spent on wars and security and all of the things that came post 9/11. i understand that the president has some egg on the face here, and he said that he left a stable and sovereign iraq, but it is not about e ego. if the iraq breaks into three parts, it is not the big deal, but the sunnis and the shias ends up with the kun tcountry ae

on top of another, that is not going the affect us, but what affects us is the islamic state, the u.n., the catholic church, iran, saudi arabia and al qaeda, themselves, they all say how bad these guys are, and with we have a chrns to go in to take them out, and we have to open up shock and awe part two and take out as many of the bad guys as we can. because they are well funded because of the oilfields they have captured and they have said they are coming to the western europe and united states. >> well, it is interesting gary b., because most americans don't want soldiers to go to iraq to protect a democratically elected government, but 40% would like the go there for taking military action gaiagainst iraq because terrorists. what do you think? should we be in this fight? >> well, i guess, brenda, i'm in the 60%, because per john's point, if we tried to wage a war with everyone who hated america, my gosh, we would be bombing the french for crying out loud. it is rampant out there.

look, i agree with john that we have a lot of enemies out there, but we also have to think about what all of this is costing us. the iraq war alone, first iraq war cost $2 trillion and the interest payments over the next 20 to 40 years are another $4 trillion and put that in perspective. it could have paid for the health care of every uninsured person for 10 to 15 years, brenda. so look, when people say, should we spend whatever it takes, we have to look at the economics of this. we are into iraq once and what good did it do us? not much. and now we we are trying to go in again, and we are stepping the toes in, and in going to cost an enormous amount of money, and the track record of inserting ourselves in foreign affairs is dismal. >> but tracy, genocide, savage, terrorists, and isn't that enough to want to make us get

over there before they come here? >> well, i agree with gary, because the track record is pretty darn bad, but these guys are creative and adaptive and they want to own and tackle every border. they have said they are coming to get us, and nobody wants 9/11 to happen all over again. we didn't do it right the first time, but maybe we can fix it right this time, because these guys are out there mafia style paying the people off and collecting the tax money, and loads of cash in the coffers there because of the oil selling, and think of the dangerous group coming to be here at our home. >> and the military is stronger, and we could go in with a lot of money and troops to fight them back, but what happens again when we leave? it collapses. and there is no good solution, but we have to install a puppet dictator to keep people down more so than saddam was.

that is what kept the country down. and maybe we made it worse by removing an evil dictator who kept them at bay with terror tactics of his own with gassing and so forth. >> and chuck, i will get to you in a minutes, but i want to give you a chance to respond to this, john, about the economics and rather than getting them before they get us? >> well, to gary b's point. the foreign policy has to get better to be dismal. we backed the overe throw of the e egyptian government, and the backing of the overthrow of the democratically elected government and the same with maliki, and with we overthrew hussein and put maliki in power and now backing the overthrow of him and all e beit peaceful. i am not talking about going into iraq and staying. it was a mistake that we made before and a mistake in afghanistan. i am talking about the fact that you have 10 to 15,000 people of

the worst people on the planet sitting out there in the desert, and we could open up the air force and take them out and make the world a better place. i am not saying rele forring any government anywhere, but killing the worst people on the planet, and we have the opportunity to do that and we have an obligation to do that. >> chuck, do you agree? >> well, i knew i was in trouble when i asked my staff today looking at the cost, which is bigger a billion or a trillion, because we cooked this pie. now we have toite. i was not in favor of the war to begin with for a sector of reasons, but now in the case of doing this. this is the making and the government's making. and i am talking about the worst of the worst, and now we have american soldiers and assets and american property in the country to protect that we have to protect to protect the sovereign nation and the people, and the

little bit of an attack that we are doing which is not enough, we have to at least protect the soldiers of what we have there. >> then we need to put john latham in the ol' offival offic because what we have is so soft, and gooey, and we have this green hugging liberal nonsense coming out of there and nobody want to hurt or ruffle feathers, but john, is right, get in there and kill them and be done, but i can't imagine that happen ingin the administration. >> well, gary b, the u.n. has asked to cut all funding to isis, and how could that be done? >> i think it is -- it can't be done. how is -- first of all, how is the u.n. going to enforce that? that is my question. i don't think that it can. and you know, brenda, as well as i am, when there is money involved, the countries want to sell the weapons and the munitions to isis and that is not going to happen. to the bigger point if i agreed

with john, where does it stop then? do we take out hamas u, because they essential hate the u.s. and waged war on us, and what about north korea? my gosh, we can't stand up to defend israel as one of the allies and now go into the iraq. and it does not make sense and above and beyond all of that and the point that chuck makes, we are broke, and we can't afford it. so i say that we have to come down, brenda, with the 60% that prefers we stay home on this. >> and jonas, what about cutting off buying the saudi oil? would that help to take away the power of isis? >> unless we can put the price of oil down to $20/barrel which is going to send us into a huge recession, but the problem with the bombing strikes is that are we then their number one enemy forever? it seems that is not the best technique as a long term to protect americans from

terrorism. >> and by the way, john layfield has my vote for president. good going. >> all right. >> thank you, tracy. from illegal to entitled and what the government just mandated for thousands of illegal minors that could cost legal americans a bundle. neil and the crew are on it. and first, where did $1 billion in tax breaks go to help the communities down and out? to desert sculptures and custom yachts, and now

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i'm kelly wright. now back to fox news. a lot of the $1 billion in special tax breaks that the government doles out are going to doing gi day cares and yacht ownerships, and even relatixati spas for the workers. how do we stop this, gary b? >> well, the government decides in the infinite wisdom what work will work in what a areas. so we feed millions in and millions come out. isn't that a wonderful model. in the real world if a person, brenda, starts up doggie day care place and it does not work, they go out of business.

in the government world, if the business just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. when you have the free money out there which is what the tax credits are, it is a license to the e steal or use fraud or what are the start up dumb businesses that would never succeed in the real world. let the people keep their own money and get the government out of the business of creating jobs. >> and chuck, the concept sounds good, to help poor areas to get jobs. but nearly every city is eligible for this and maybe beverly hills. >> i'm a poor mexican and i have a business and i did not know about it, and that is a problem. so i have three employees and of the taxes i pay 46 cents on the dollar for every dollar that goes out. and so i own a small business but if i had a tax break i could hire more people. the concept is right, but it is

not executed. i got a way to the drive the new tractor for papa. when they went home for the weekend, i got the tractor stuck in the pond, because the oversight was not good. so if you don't watch them, that i drive it into the pond. >> well shgs, i bet that john c have gotten the tractor out of the pond. >> well, i certainly would have tried. i have driven a lot of tractors in my life and none of them into the pond. look, the dumbest thing that the politicians can say that we have an effective tax break to 22 to 36 cents and tell that to people like chuck who is 46 cent s ts the dollar. he is a small to medium-sized business, and they don't have the money or the power to buy off the politicians. that is why we have a 72,000-plus page of favors called the tax code.

if 42% is the average rate and the small and the medium-sized businesses are paying the most, the big companies are paying the least. we have to simplify it, but we need a politician who is going to get rid of the payers and that not going to happen for a long, long time. >> and so this is a form of a tax scheme? >> e yes, the deductions of the code is full of it, and that is the is easy way, because the government is out spending the money themselves. and just like any tax credit to buyer cars or get the kids to do this or that and or the second house or the home equity homes, and what are the benefits other than complicating the tax code? are those good for that, because particularly clinton who gets credit for not building up welfare, but he gives it to banks to create false businesses

to support them. so we would have done better to give it to the businesses. so it is not a good policy to he heldp poor people on either side there. >> and tracy? >> well, you cannot simplify the tax code at this point, and you have to abolish it and start over. no way to get over the weeds. any time the government picks the win irs and the losers, the loser is the taxpayer who picks up the slack at the end of the day. doi doggie day care gets a break, but it does not mean another job. i am annoyed in new jersey that i am paying more to tan and dog s get the break. but it is anger and animosity among the people, and it is a hot button is the tax button. you need somebody with a spine, and i am elected to do this and i will be elected out by the end, but it is for the good of the country. cashing in an hour ago. eric, what have you got for us? >> well, talk about a crimef of

the government releasing hundreds of illegal ill a yens on to the streets and convicted of serious crimes. and everybody is talking about the postal workers and the mail and the trash, and wait until you hear what the postal service is about to lay on it. and robin williams' financial woes. why are we seeing that so many celebrities cashing it in. >> and the obama cadillac tax may be turping your

it is more than three years away, but it is more than taking a toll. a new report saying that employers are cutting health benefits and passing the costs on to employees to deal with the obama care cadillac tax. and tracy, you say that the workers can't afford it. >> you could have seen this one coming a mile away. no employee isier is going to suck up a 40% excise tax on the cadillac plans so they are going to cut the benefits or pass it on the you, and no, we have not seen the hourly wages increase in what is forever now. and people can't afford an extra cost for anything, especially health care when the costs keep rising. >> and chuck, 52% of americans surveyed still don't like obama ca care. what about this? >> well, the cadillac tax is not right. and i have n be on this program before and i am a fan of obamacare and let the twitter bomb happen now, but this portion of the law, this is what is it going to change. you saw the special exemptions

for the union, because they run it just like corporations do for the direct employees. the reason it will not be implemented is that it is pushed back to 2018, and this is one of the few places in congress where you will see the republicans who hate obama care, and those worried about the marginal seats are going to say, you are take us out of the health care busine business? then you will see some coalitions. >> gary b, benefits to this? >> well, yes, i believe there are and i am going jonas on you, and look at the other side. jonas turns me on sometimes to a neat way of thinking and i bet you that jonas might say, this is maybe not all that bad. i agree with tracy putting all of the costs all of the sudden on the employees who are going to be blindsided, but for the empl employee out there to be more transparent in seeing what health care actually costs, it is a good thing. when i work for the fortune 500 company, i had no idea of the medical tests, and i gave them a

card, and poof, it went awayk and now it is eating into the $5,000 or the $10,000 deductible, i am going to be worried about getting the tests done in the past. and i think that health care spending is going to go down because of this. >> and what do you think of what jonas, jr. has to say? >> i agree 100%, because the aca who has problems to give everybody some health care, and you can have too much health care, because there is a huge tax break, there is a lot of weird stuff going on and the spouse already has health care, and then go see yours, because it is better. is that fair to the employer? i see more of the employers doing on board with this, and the unions are not going to, but if it leads to you be more observant, then, yeah, like gary said, have the spouse go to their own employer's health plan. >> john, what do you think about the whole thing?

>> well, look, wasn't this supposed to be free? i am not sure how this works. and look, we are putting off the pain, up till the next election cycle. look. chuck is right, and this is p b probably going to disappear, and look, if i am working for the company and i have a cadillac plan and now i have to pay for part of the plan or get e reduced benefits, i am not happy about this and 20 years from now, we will find out if obama care is a good thing or bad thing, but until then, we are involved in a lot of pain in trying to figure out how the pay for it, and most of it is through new taxes. >> that has to be the last point. thank you, guys. than you to chuck and tracy for joining us. joining us. now, as the

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and the predictions and john, you are up. >> back to school and j krshgs pc penny go together again. and what an unbelievable story. the stock is up 20%. >> i can't believe it is back to school shopping. bull or bear, gary b? >> well, it is going up when john starts shopping there. >> gary, your bre diprediction? >> coke bought monster, but the real sector is pepsi up 30% this time next year. >> and you? >> sugar drink bear. >> and somebody was arrested in kroeger f er kroger, and that would not

happen at whole food. so their stock is up 20% over the year. >> and from one guy who cursed.? >> i am tired of eating the nuts like jonas. i'm a bear. eat beef. >> lining up to get the to scho school even though they are not supposed to be in our schools, or are they? welcome to neil cavuto, and when did illegal mean entitled? you have to wonder, because maybe when this department of education fired this off, you have, and i will quote, all of the children in the united states are equal to access of public elementary and secondary education regardless of the parents' perceived or actual status which includes recently arrived unak xaccompan