its gigaat this. -- gigafactory. nevada gets the job. [closing bell ringing]. they will boil in parts of the city, but who cares. david: jobs, jobs. good for the state. liz: bells ring on wall street and bringing tesla and every other name with thee. here is how the dow jones with a gain of 11 points. s&p, russell, seeing red on the screen. not the 30 third record for the s&p. not today. down 1 1/2%. "after the bell" starting right now. david: let's get right to it. we have a full crowd today. we have john merrill who says continued low interest rate environment will make stocks more valuable than they already have seen. another john, trainer, of people's united bank, thinks the markets remain strong through the end of the year.

steve englander from citigroup says expeet to see u.s. collar buying pick up. he knows currency like nobody in the world does. we'll question him about that. todd horowitz in the pits of cme. todd, usual to have on a strong wednesday. today is weak wednesday. i'm looking at troubles in europe. looking at troubles in china. i'm also looking at a strong dollar. what is the meaning? we'll get into currency in just a minute. the strong dollar is having effect on currencies. obviously having effect on gold, oil, et cetera, right? >> absolutely. hi david, hi liz. when you look at a stronger dollar, the dollar is like a safe haven. you talk about treasury bond as safety play. people pour into the u.s. dollar. we're still the reserve currency. we're still currency of choice, that safe money wants to hide out there. so they will hide in the dollar. now as the dollar gains strength, because all commodities are benchmarked against the dollar, they begin to lose value, because more dollars buy less commodities. less dollars buy more

commodities. it changes dynamics of how the commodities are trading. so we're seeing some lower commodity prices, gold has been under pressure for the last couple days. silver, grain markets. we've seen the dollar. stronger dollar created. the dollar more after safe haven for fear trade, people want to put the money if they're afraid what is going on further. liz: we don't want people's eyes to start going cuckoo, i don't need to know anything about a carry trade or i don't know anything about a long one currency, short another, but steve englander, that is kind of why you're here. there are opportunities, if you borrow one currency to buy currencies elsewhere with better return rates. what do you think happens with the dollar as so-called safe haven? and there there better opportunities out there? >> well i think that the dollar is a safe haven when geopolitical issues are at the forefront. the further out you look, you set the gilo political aside. the issue that the u.s.

unemployment rate is dropping very quickly. we're likely to be five 1/2% middle of next year. the market says that the fed will just be starting to raise interest rates. that's going to be very dollar positive environment because the risk is that the fed moves faster than what the market is pricing in. not so good for carry trades, especially carry trades for high-risk, high return currencies. those are very dependent on liquidity. dollar against euro, dollar against yen, dollar against aussie dollars. those trades should do very well. david: john merrill, you are very bullish on this market, but let me ask you about this geopolitical concerns, steve touched on them. we have isis. we've got russia. doesn't that give you a little bit of a pause in terms of your bullish scenario? >> well, i guess my overall theme is that we're really in an era of uncertainty and this is caused by what was just said, the fed policies, are zero interest rate policies. as you say, these extreme

geopolitical events. they have this emotional push and pull on us, can make us, actually make wrong decisions. i think, and we think, that the you're better off to hunger down, if you will, and whatever your neutral or normal asset allocation is and try to avoid this emotional pulls on you. in fact i take it one step further and say, we don't believe we're in a stock-picker's market. we think that this market environment favors getting closer to the index diversion of your asset allocation as opposed to making active bets. liz: right about now john is saying let me in, let me in. john trainer, you're a little more bullish. in fact you believe there is an opportunity to stock pick and not wait, do it now, correct? >> correct. we would agree with a lot of comments that have been made so far. we believe we are in a dollar-based market where the dollar will be rising because the u.s. is a safe haven, primarily because we're a great

market. so we're actually, very, very positive on the u.s. we're overweighted. we're talking with our clients about remaining overweighted in the u.s., compared to the international markets. so we're very, very bullish as we head into the fourth quarter and into 2015. david: so let's see if any of this positive energy can waft its way over to the cme, into the head of todd horowitz who has been a per pertal bear here many months. you think there is possibility of a october surprise, todd? >> i do. purely from technical standpoint. overnight we made a high in s&p since 2011. that could be potential near-term top here but i am looking for some selling pressure. i think it is really sad everything is based on waiting for mario draghi to speak tomorrow and what we hear from the fed. it is time to look back to see what is growing, if we see real jobs growth on friday. i know we had 200,000 in jobs

growth last six consecutive months. when you look at quality of those jobs, they have not been up to par. people are making less money as we talked about many times. so i'm still bearish here. i do think it's a stock-picker's market. you can buy individual equities. but as far as big indexes, i'm a seller. liz: he is a seller. steve? i need to ask you because there hasn't been a day where we haven't stood here, precisely at this time, about 4:02, 4:06 p.m. eastern time, what about the fed? what happens when the fed finally says, okay we're ready. we'll telegraph it well, nobody should be shocked but will the markets be shocked? what are you anticipating? >> look, i think once the fed indicates that it, you know, about time to raise rates the market has a date and i think that is the flatness of the expected rate curve that we're seeing relates to the uncertainty about when the fed is going to start. i think that as they're confident enough to start, they're confident enough to

raise rates relatively quickly towards the equalibrium. we'll be close enough to that five handle, 5.25 handle they say is their target. i'm kind of more cautious with respect to how, you know, high-risk trades, high return trades are going to perform under those circumstances. it may not be this month but i think by the time we get to the end of the year market perspective may be different. david: john treanor, we had a spectacular august. everybody was expecting in june, even july, perhaps august people would take a paws. not so, people were buying into the stock market. doesn't that give you a little bit of a pause what might happen this month? >> no. actually, if you take a look at history, if we have a strong august, or, really a year heading into september, september is actually been a fairly good month. we are talking with clients. telling them september has been a volatile month. so anticipate some volatility.

but we actually think with some of the news, some of the potential headlines that could come about, the election, ecb, capital spending you could see a very positive september. liz: positive september. john treanor, i guess when people are looking trying to see exactly what there might be i now turn to john merrill and ask, what is the trade? where would you be putting your money right now? >> well, as i said, we think there are periods when active management really does well. '90s were great for growth managers, 2,000s for growth and small cap value. we think, passive management which is very much outperformed the active management since the crisis. we think that trend is likely to continue. so we would actually move our portfolios more towards passive positions. liz: you're talking exchange traded funds. >> yes. liz: we put one of them up,

vanguard reed index, that of course is a real estate play. >> right. iwv which is i-shares for the russell 3,000 index we really like. but we also like vanguard's veu, which is international stock index less u.s. so we think building up those positions in a portfolio makes a lot of sense. david: great stuff, guys. thank you very much. john merrill, john treanor, steve englander, todd horowitz we'll see you in a couple minutes when the s&p futures close. thank you, gentlemen. >> thank you. this started this morning, this talk of a cease-fire, yes, no, maybe. it was in ukraine, possible u.s. rate hikes thrown into the mix ahead of some investors ssying good-bye to bonds. we'll debate whether this bond boom is finally ending as people get a little more confident. we'll give you some alternatives for safety but also for yield. david: alternatives, we like that. also the president saying that the u.s. aims to shrink what he cause the isis sphere of influence. but does he have a specific

plan, any strategy? we have the latest. fox business exclusive, rich edson speaking with senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. what the republicans want to see? liz: as it prepares for its huge product launch, apple's image and stock bruised today. hack attack, outages, new competition. will next week's product launch put the shine back on apple? david: tell us what you think about all this. are samsung products, that is what pressured apple today, are their products overtaking apple products? what do you think? tweet us @fbnatb. your answers straight ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] once, there was a man

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liz: homebuilders, well, one much things shares of luxury homebuilder to brothers falling after its earnings report earlier today. david: let's head to nicole petallides on floor of nyse. what is happening with toll brothers? >> good news and bad news in the to brothers report. people buying and selling and profit more than doubled. isn't that great news? ultimately they came out with great numbers. however there is concern about pricing. the ceo said they haven't had to incentivize selling just yet, there is some concern there is a pinp, there is a steep rise in home prices.

even the most affluent purchasers may be a little more cautious buying luxury homes. that chatter is what pushed this stock to the downside 4.7%. everything else in the report, up to this point, liz and dave has been stellar. they have seen the traffic. the traffic year over year for the month of august was up about 19%. isn't that great news? revenue climbed over 50%. and they even made it through, despite the tough weather that so many companies talked about, made it through the tough time in order to bring these stellar numbers. now going forward, it is higher home prices that may put a pinch on toll brothers and others. liz: nicole, thank you very much. david: s&p futures will be closing in just about 30 seconds from now. go to todd horowitz in the pitts of the cme. what is happening, todd? >> from a technical standpoint we could have had a potential key reversal in the s&p which means we would be heading lower, opened on all-time new high,

closed lower. from standpoint of the market you have mario draghi speaking tomorrow. could be a market mover. adp jobs tomorrow and jobs number on friday. all potentially major market movers have either side. my guess they go lower. depending on what drawinggy and numbers say. liz: thanks, todd. so far this year the bond bet really in a way has been paying off thanks to a dip in interest rates but our next guest says hold on, hold on, investors please beware. david: he is warning that the bond boom is ending. time to considering alternative income investments. jeff reed, investorplace.com editor. looking into all this. jeff, good to see you. basically we have to remind everybody, when rates go down, value of bond go up, but you will see that reverse shortly. why? >> i do think, nobody has all answers. it surprised some people that rates have dropped as much as they have, 60 basis points since

january. this is not something that might happen immediately. might not see immediate rate hike. we have seen improvement on the unemployment front. inflation metrics are little elevated. probably in the cards next year-and-a-half or so. to see rates tick up. very important for people in long-term bond funds. when rates go up, the principle goes down. income investors shouldn't abandon bonds all together but there are alternatives to protect. liz: there is the softball, liz. there are alternatives. give us the number one alternative. follow with the list. people are always looking for the next big thing. >> yeah, i really like preferred stock right now. actually if you want me to pick the one i like best, i think preferred stock is really good for you. always provide as bigger yield than common shares do. if you remember warren buffett rode in on white horse bought preferreds of goldman and bank of america. they didn't pay a lot of dividends to regular investors, he was getting 6% yield.

you can get really good dividend from the stock funds out there. two i like, if you're afraid of overweight in financials, which i kind of am, i don't know i want to be too overweight in fi right now. x financials preferred fund out there, from market vectors. i-shares actually preferred stock fund is only 35% in conventional bank stocks. there are ways to play preferred stock not being overreliant on financials. you get diversified investment by playing the etf. david: we remind investors even though you get higher interest from preferreds there is greater risk. there is always a balance of return and risks. ml. ps, master limited partnerships, sometimes viewers have trouble figuring them out. can you explain what they are and what the best bets are. >> mlp's is a special class of companies. the government wanted to give tax breaks for energy infrastructure businesses is best example of that. they're very capital intensive.

they want to give them a break. you give a lot of profits back to shareholders. you're buying into partnership instead after individual stock. there is jargon and tax implications. simple way, there is infrastructure etf that doesn't have the kind of a cape things you get out there like k-1 filing if you buy mlp shares directly. you get a egular tax form like other income investments. i prefer the structure from alerion. if you want a specific one, i like energy transfer partners. -- alerian. you're not worried about extraction or taking things to refiners. it is intermediary. they're building a 800-mile -@pipeline to connect important shale fields. they had an acquisition. they're going by acquisition even though this is sleepily kind of country they're growing as quick as they can. liz: yield 6., very good, 6.%. -- 6.8%.

>> you said be fast. i'm a fast talker. liz: john merrill likes the vanguard reit that is of course an index. look at something like that, you say, well, so do you. is this also because it's a good dividend play? >> yeah. i completely agree with that call. that is actually one of the etfs i'm looking at right now. i like reit broadly. two particular flavors investors focus on looking for lower risk. you will never get as low risk as bond. anything in equity investment i have to admit there is more risk that cops in it. go to the two segments in the reit space are triple net lease reits where they are companies that own a bunch of strip malls but they don't have to pay insurance and up keep and maintenance on them, don't have to pay taxes. basically they're taking all money from tenants. i like triple net lease reits but i like health care related reits go for medical office parks or senior housing facilities. these are good investments. if you like picking individuals you can, but vanguard reit your

other guest mentioned is unwith i like. you get diversification in the reit space. provides good yield. with funds like this, you got to mitigate your risk. david: jeff, i tell you if this investment stuff doesn't work out for you, fast talking is your line much business. you could do it. those fast-talking commericals. you would be perfect for it. thank you, jeff. liz: jeff reeves of investor place. we'll put up, we ran through them so quickly because he is the evelyn wood speed talker. facebook.com/afterthebell. david: president obama sends apparently conflicting signals how we will fight isis, the group that already beheaded two american journalists. we head to washington to find out what is behind these mixed messages. liz: shifting gears, apple ceo tim cook counting down to the3 big reveal next week. what about the big reveal happened today by samsung? some investors are already raining on tim cook's parade. an all-star panel will square

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liz: fox news peter barnes has more from washington. peter. >> david and liz, the president said, the u.s. will seek to degrade and isis. in a press conference in estonia this morning president said defeating isis will take time because of the civil war in syria, the number of veteran fighters in isis and the need to build a coalition to defeat it. the president is in wales tonight for meetings with nato allies on this and other issues. here at home, administration officials appeared to be trying to put an exclamation point on the president's comments. >> they should know we will follow them to the gates of hell until they are brought to justice. [applause] , because hell is where they will reside! >> biden's remarks were tougher on isis than some of his boss's in estonia. >> we know that if we are joined

by the international community, we can continue to shrink isil's sphere of influence, its effectiveness, its financing. its, its military capabilities. to the point where it is a manageable problem. >> asked about the president's different characterizations today about what he wants to do to isis, destroy it or make it manageable, a state department spokesperson said reporters were trying to play word games but the president's words are under close scrutiny after he said last week he did not have a strategy for defeating isis. david and liz? david: peter barnes, inside the beltway. peter, thank you very much. liz: speaking of the impact of international conflicts which we've seen many, rich edson today, sat down with senate republican meader mitch mcconnell, in a fox business exclusive. now the senate minority leader from global tensions torything corporate inversions and much

more. david: our own rich edson joining us from details of that interview. rich? >> david and liz, congress returns next week. one of the first items on their agenda is how to extend government spending f they don't pass a government spending bill the government shuts down on october 1st. mcconnell says there will not be any drama on this they will probably extend funding through december and there won't be any drama on the issue. we talked a bit on tax inversions and how senate democrats want to vote on a bill to address specific tax inversions to punish companies to do so. republicans made it clear through mcconnell they oppose those efforts. >> there is no interim step congress can take on inversions. >> these little fixes are not likely to work. what we want to do is fix the fundamental problem. why are companies enticed to do something like this? the tax situation. and probably regulations, play a

role in that too. so if we want america to grow, and we all say we do, we need to have policies that bring about growth. and this administration has been a job killer. obamacare, congressional budget office says cost us 2.5 million jobs. >> we also talked about isis, david and liz, and about the remarks that you heard peter barnes deliver a short while ago or deliver from the president a short while ago. he says isis is not manageable. he is calling on the president to address the nation and provide a plan to the nation and congress for exactly what he wants to do in regards to isis. back to you. liz: big topic, rich edson, thank you very much. david: from louisville. from duck with peach jam on facebook to flank steak at yahoo!, free food has become incentive to attract new employees to silicon valley. now the irs wants to tax that food. what does that mean, for these tech giants and their employees?

liz: no free granola bars? rip off. david: no free lunch. liz: a rotten week pour apple, cyberattack, outages at least a big stock decline although yesterday it hit a 52-week high. will bad news overshadow what could mean a make-or-break product launch for apple next week? is the decline a buying opportunity? two important questions. guess what? we're we're debating it next. ♪

david: time for a quick speed read, some of the day's other headlines, five stories, one minute. halliburton, one of the world's largest oil field services company will pay 1.1 billion colorado to settle damages from the 2010 bp oil spill. cvs getting a makeover as the company officially ends the sale of tobacco products and adopt as new name, cvs health. tobacco products generated 2 billion-dollars for the company. virgin atlantic will cut some of its global routes to increase flights to the u.s. and other more profitable markets. fast good giant mcdonald's reportedly getting ready to roll out its own mobile payment platform on september 15th. with declining sales to millennial customers. china mobile beginning to accept preorders for the upcoming iphone 6 last night. the carrier already received

more than 33,000 orders. they can choose between 4.7 and 5.5-inch screens for the new declasses. that is today's "speed read." liz? liz: perfect segue to this, right? we're wasting on that phone. will it be a game-changer or apple? it has kind of been a rotten week. a hack attack on its icloud, although they're denying it, exposed intimate celebrity nude photos, and itune outage and new samsung products, big competitor that were very postively received and today apple shares losing 4%. guess what that translates to? more than $20 billion lopped off its market cap. how big of a bruise will this be and is now a buying opportunity. but is that now a buying opportunity? joining me, scott kessler, s&p capital iq out of tech sector equity research, and alex ghana, securities analyst. scott has hold and $103 price target. we're about there today, just slightly below it at 98.

alex with a buy and $135 price target. scott, you're the slight skeptic with your hold. what do you need to see from apple that would change your rating to a buy? >> wow, well, i think that the way we consider apple at this point, liz is, we think of the stock as fully valued. look, it has been a great year, not withstanding issues you mentioned from this week. the stock i over 30% in 2014. that is double the appreciation for the s&p 500 technology sector. and, you know what? apple is so big, it is so dominant already, that we think it is going to be hard for them, over the longer term, to drive significant growth. and so we think, a slight discount to the tech sector multiple makes sense. we see the stock right now is likely to perform in line with the market. liz: okay, alex, to you, because now i look, and i see, okay he makes a very good point. doesn't a lot hit on next week

and this rollout what will be a big product announcement. china mobile, already announcing hey, sign up for the iphone 6, probably that, right? >> that is fair enough, liz. but the thing jnp securities believes that the hype is well-warranted in this instance. we're finally getting larger screen iphones. it is a product category apple has been absent from the past several years. that absence is now going to be filled. the new devices are going to becoming with a compelling features. mobile payments. talking about the tie-ins. talking about a new iwatch and other internet of things adjuncts to this we think it going to make it a very compelling product cycle. so in other words, we think apple is going to deliver and this is a buying opportunity in the stock ahead of the reveal next week. liz: except they just had this potential i-hack. scott, people might say why would i go with a mobile payment system if you can't protect nude

photos? >> i would agree with that sentiment as well as the notion of health care or home -- do people really want to connect? at this stage apple products with, you know, their health data and their home security systems? i think over the longer term, these are great trend for apple to capitalize on. liz: sure. >> i just think some of these issues right now are going to stand in the way of further outperformance. you know what? we like apple as a company. we just think right now the stock is fully valued here. liz: well, one thing apple does have going for it, i would say this to both of you, every time a new phone comes out, everybody looks at old one says i need the new one. now we talk about samsung. alex, today samsung, we can show some of the video. they had some very curved interesting pieces. they have got this sort of looks like oculus rift headset, adam shapiro said, i don't know, i couldn't see anything in it. he was there at the event. they have maroon 5.

sexing it up. there are very smart people there and it is android. android crushes the ios system, does it not, when it comes to numbers? >> it doesn't, not really. right now apple is the number one selling single smartphone in north america. as you pointed out at the beginning of this segment, the iphone is already preselling very nicely in china without us even knowing what it is at this juncture. yes, the samsung devices are very nice, attractive devices but i didn't see anything revolutionary today that didn't close the door on apple's ability to surprise us even more. and coming back what you were talking about with security. i think fingerprint scanner and kind of security apple can deliver is actually going to bring people towards the new technology, versus push them away from it. liz: well, it hasn't really been proven. apple is denying it. it wasn't us, but might be apps people had on the iphones.

becomes the question, scott, what did you think of samsung products that came out? >> i kind of agree with the sentiment alex articulated, look, at this point, samsung, when it comes to, you know, when you think about smartphones there is a high-end category and apple clearly dominates that. liz: yeah. >> then there is kind of everything else. and i'd say android is really that everything else. the question to what extent will they be able to eat into the high-end customer base with new features and functionality? and i think as he pointed out, there wasn't necessarily anything that they announced that is going to make someone say, you know what? , i have this iphone. now i'm going to android. this is really what i've been waiting for. liz: i know. >> on the flip side of that, i think when it comes to the coming iphone, notwithstanding, i think a lot of the excitement, i don't know specifically, other than the screen size and maybe the sapphire, kind of glass that they're allegedly going to use, i don't know thattthey're going

to be new features that will only be usable for the iphone 6 that make people say, i need this phone now. those are people that previously didn't have an iphone in their pocket or on their desk. liz: that too, might be evolutionary, versus revolutionary. nice lively discussion, guys. thank you so much. scott kessler maintains his hold. alex maintains the buy on apple. we'll be there to cover the big event next week. david: i think winner in all this is the consumer. consumer is one that wins. joint competition. someone will have to lower prices. coming up one of silicon valley's beloved perks, free food is making irs a little hungry. the irs wants to start taxing these free lunches. in fact they put taxing the lunches on their priority list. doesn't the irs have anything better to do with their time? liz: apparently not. one of the u.s. cities with the highest quality of life. where? according to a recent survey, they named this city.

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liz: wanted to be a homeowner but couldn't afford it? now you can, buy a home for just one dollar.

does this sound too good to be true? well it is possible in, buffalo, new york. yeah, the only thing is, you have to pay to fix up the property. renovations. david: yeah, some people love that town. joining us now to explain how this works, fox news's laura engle. laura, i remember jack kemp used to speak highly of buffalo. one buck gets you in. >> you have to be a bills fan, right? may cost you four quarters to purchase this property but you will need serious sweat equity to make it worth your investment. the city's urban homestead program ses home to buyers who commit to fixing all code violations within 18 months. a lot of these places need a lot of work. you need five grand in the bank, covering closing costs and live there three years. great investment for do-it-yourselfers that want to help beautify buff loaf. >> really deters idea of investor coming in, swooping in, doing cheap repairs under the radar and flipping it quickly.

you're not allowed to do that here. >> i knew i was dedicated to staying in buffalo. so i was excited about having a space to invest my same and energy and money. so i, knew it was a good idea. >> so the program which has been around for nearly 25 years has seen a recent up tick in activity with the help of social media, which is creating market buzz, guys. david: bottom line, how successful is the program, laura? >> buffalo's office of strategic planning reports while there are thousands of vacant homes in buffalo not all of them are qualifying for this homesteading of the ones that do, go quickly. eight to 10 homes a year are sold for a buck. homes that don't make the cut are often demolished. it fills neighborhoods with vacant lots. nobody wants to see that with the effort to stablize the community to move forward. >> knocking a house down costs about $20,000 on average in city of buffalo. if we can sell a house for a dollar, we save $20,000s. we can invest it in something

else. we can get a property on the tax rolls and we can improve it with private money, not public money. >> some of homebuyers say the effort is worth every penny because when all is said and done with repairs you mentioned at top, much cheaper than buying a home on the regular market. plus they have the pride of doing work themselves. a similar program in detroit generated one milliondollars in sales since may. their fixer uppers are auctioned off with bids for $1000 to those that agree to spruce them up. back to you. liz: laura, buffalo, they have a national hockey league. david: unbelievable sports town. as if there was moving nor important to deal with, the irs wants to tax-free food, free food perks employees get in silicon valley. what will it mean for employees and employers and who pays? liz: one of these tech giants unveiled some of its biggest products of the year today. we'll give you a sneak-peek at

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david: silicon valley is generally supportive of obama administration policy but that may change now that the irs targeted one of the great perks of working at high-tech firms,

employee meals. you might think the irs would have something better to do with their time. cracking down on employer provided meals was put on the irs's annual priority list. joining me now, is tom who is tax attorney who worked with large tech companies precisely on this issue. tom, why has this become priority for the irs? >> past few years this is increasingly popular perk. and it is one of those areas, easy for the irs to target. they walk in. if they're auditing a company, something that is easy to see. and, you know, just given the growth of this perk, there is a lot of money involved. so something they will go after. >> well, how precisely would the irs tax these free lunches? >> well, what they would go in and do, once they determined that it is a taxable benefit, they would come up with a value of what the benefit is, on a workforcewide level. they which not spend time going out, even though they technically could, individually

auditing individual employees. so they are will come up with a global value of the, of all the meals that are provided to the workforce during the course of the year. they could use things like invoices that the company might fay to a third party provider. to determine what that amount is. david: okay, well, of course these people are paid a lot of money. i'm not crying any alligator tears. if you're paid a mill bucks maybe the tax doesn't amount to much. they want to claw back, don't they? they're seeking back taxes for this as well, right? >> that's right. what they will do, they can audit several years, this issue is open and try to collectemplos and, you know, social security medicare taxes that should have been withheld from this benefit and try to collect it from the employer. david: now google, twitter, facebook, they're all doing it. presumably, they're all going to fight this attempt by the irs, right? >> that's right. i mean, it is not a black and white issue. there are various exceptions in

the code that allow meals that are provided for the convenience of the employer to be provided on a tax-free basis. that is the argument that comes up when this issue is litigated. that is what will settle the issue. david: you've dealt with the irs before on these issues. you dealt with companies that deal on the irs on these issues. what are the chances? will they win this or lose it? >> really depends on the facts. the code regs are really focused on things like meals provided to doctors that are working on site because they're not permitted to leave the facility because they're on call. david: let me read from the tax code. i happen to have it here. meals can remain untaxed if they are served for a non-compensatory reason for the convenience of the employer. i would think it would be for the convenience. you have your employees. they're not going out for lunch. they stay there for lunch. less commuting time between the place you eat at lunch or not. why is this not at convenience of the employer? i would think the irs doesn't

have a case. >> that is certainly one of the arguments the employers are going to raise. the irs take as fairly extreme view how that should be determined. essentially they're looking at, you know, if the employer is located in a log camp or oil rig in the middle of the gulf that is situation where it might be difficult for employee to get a free meal, to get a meal off-site. in this area the irs is not conceding just because the employer would like them to have a quick lunch, that that, in of itself would be enough to find it non-taxable. david: ream quick. silicon valley is known to be the supportive of obama administration and policies, i think on this issue this might be a deal breaker for some of these people, right? >> everybody wants, you know their lunches. it is a very popular perk. this is not just at, an issue limited to tech industry. david: right. >> really a nationwide global issue.

a lot of big corporate headquarters like this perk. david: tom crion, good to see you, tom, appreciate. >> thank you. david: samsung unveiling several new products unweek before next week's apple event. we'll give you details on the samsung's new lineup. liz: very cool stuff. a personal robot may come to a sprint store next summer. david: that is weird. liz: disco duck. how much will the bot be able to do and how much will it cost you? you get to decide when we take you off the desk. david: very odd. ♪ . i dig. and dig some more. because, for me, the challenge of the search... is almost as excitg as the thrill of the find. (announcer) at scottrade, we share your passion for trading. that's why we rebuilt scottrade elite from the ground up - including a proprietary momentum indicator that makes researching sectors and industries even easier. because at scottrade,

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liz: samsung unveiling that, some of its biggest products of the year, big also in size, not just in scope. days before apple's big event next week. kind of trumping or stealing thunder here. the centerpiece of the samsung event? two new and improved flagship phones. large screen galaxy 4 and galaxy

know and that thing we showed you. the edge which features a display that wraps around the sides of the phone for easier access on frequently used apps. it has a side deplay. look at that. side display. that is cool. put weather weather in there. that is very cool. samsung galaxy note 4 may not have the same curved display. it is bigger, braun anier, and sharper than the predecessors with 5.7-inch high-def def display. they revealed the first headset developed for oculus rift for gaming an watching movies. new products, get ready, in line, fall. david: looks good. looks good. may not be made by samsung but definitely worth doing the robot. the world's first personal robot is set for here. softbank announce as humanoid robot named pepper sold in sprint stores.

pepper will sell for 1900 bucks in japan. the robot's u.s. price has not yet been announced. liz: "willis report" is next. hi, gerri, i know you're standing by with ongoing investigation into the black box now being required i guess in everybody's cars? gerri: that's right, liz and dave. thanks for that. mortgage daca senator john hoeven talks about his bill to keep the data on the black box in your car private. we'll tell you about that. coming up tonight on the show, the cdc is warning time is running out to stop the ebola outbreak. what this means for us? could this be a turning point in the fight against common core. one of the auuhors announced he changed his mind. do it yourself home security to set up a camera system to keep your house safe. "the willis report" where consumers are our business starts right now. gerri: we begin tonight with big changes, big changes coming to your health care in