mexican people are an incredibly great, productive people. let's bet on them. >> anyone worried about the mere term big old correction? what do you think? >> yes. yes. >> inlt worrie >> you worry about it, but you don't trade and invest on it. >> thank you very much. we continue now. by almost every measure the american economy and american workers are better off than when i took office. >> better off than bore? this week we found out the job market is stalling again, and median household income is down nearly $3,000. are you better off or not? hi, everybody. i'm david. welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus and find out with ci forbes, elizabeth mcdonald, mike, rick unger. on monday the president said by almost any measure the economy was better. on friday we get these lousy job

numbers. >> they're headed for the world series. meaning incomes are down. job creation still remains. economics does not work. the top 10% of income earners, yes, knee done well under president obama, but the other 90%, they're stalled and feel they're falling behind. >> 55% say the nation's economy overall is not turning the corner. it is going to get worse before it gets better. who is right? the president or the american people? >> well, look, i think the president had a right when he said that by any measure the economy has improved since he got there. i'm afraid it's a swing and a miss, though, when he says that the worker is doing better. >> look at the median income. people have almost $3,000 less in their pocket. that's why they feel worse off.

>> yeah, but finishing the first thought that he isn't right. we see by the numbers that workers are not doing better. we have less people seeking jobs than we had before. you see the corporations are doing pretty well. we see that the t 10% is doing better than ever. is it possible that we unfairly place the blame on the president when it belongs on business. >> after six years people tend to blame the guy in charge. the -- this has en a terrible recovery, by the way, and when you compare it to the reagan recovery, look at this. we had 27.3% growth after recession. 4.8%. it's just pathetic in comparison. why i would say it's pretty simple. under reagan, you incentivize the economy. look at the top margin rate.

it went down to 28% from 70%. under obama it went up. >> right. the thing is, david, if you go back to the 1930s, the more severe the recession, the faster economic growth is in the subsequent recovery, and the key driver of that is capital formation, spending in plants and equipment. if you go back to the reagan recovery, spending on plant and equipment was 22% of gdp. it's been only 17% in the obama recovery. why? high regulations, higher tacks have thwarted business investment. >> i'm glad i brought up regulation. not just the taxes that have gone up under president obama. it's also regulation. >> yeah. we've had dodd frank. we've had obama care. we've had the e.p.a. listen, only the crank outposts of the liberal left would say this is a great recovery. i mean, this is very slow change we cant believe in, and i can't believe what's going on. you know, this president will see time and again, well, i inherited a terrible recession. guess what, three of th last six presidents inherited bad recessions. youmentioned ronald reagan.

he inherited a double dip recession, citigroup collapsed for the first time, and also double digit inflation. this is the only president since herbert hoor who responded to an economic collapse by raising aggress ofly taxes. >> right. rich, you're increasing the costs of doing business, so surprise, surprise, there's less business. therefore, less jobs. have i got it right? >> you absolutely do. that's why labor participation, you know, went to another new low of 62% plus. that's just a biz mal. people on food stamps, now 15 of the population. it was 11% when obama took office. disability insurance is now climbing 40% under obama. you know, obama taking credit for this recovery off of a really low bar in january 2009 by pure coincidence is like fwor gore taking credit for the invention of the internet because he came to office and was vice president in 1993. >> john, i would love to hear what you think about all this.

>> well, you know, i think despite e unemployment number, the job -- the economy is actually growing, but what's got to be stressed is that it has no nothing to do or little to do with president obama's economic policies, and a great deal to do with the fact that his presidency essentially ended at the end of 2012. economies are just individuals. when gridlock takes shape in washington, that means politicians aren't able to put up barriers to our natural desire to achieve. there a slight recovery going on, but it has nothing to do with policy and everything to do with a lack of policy. >> that's a very interesting idea. steve, is it sort of the anti-matter? the only benefits to the economy is the fact they can't do anything in d.c.? >> that's very nice, but there's positive things that have to be done. especially in the corporate tax side. we have the highest rates in the western world. on the personal income tax side, that's a huge disincentive. obama care is hurting small businesses. the fed continues to muck up the credit markets. there are positive things that

have to be done if we're really going to get out of second gear. >> rick, what i don't understand is that both republicans and democrats agree to that at least the corporate rate tax rate is too high. we went from one of the lowest in the world to now the highest corporate tax rate. why when both sides agree it's too high can't it be lower? >> well, you know, i'm n sure it can't be lowered. i think one of the problems we have with that is that you have to look at the effective tax rate and the tax rate as it's listed. i think we all would agree that very few companies are actually paying that 30%. if it were, i would be with you all the way. >> the point is that the reason they're not paying is because all these special interests have their special deals, and it's the big companies that don't pay anything. >> you know what else i agree with, john tammany. presidents have less to do with these things than people want to give them credit. >> guess who the president didn't credit at all. the federal reserve. 21 trillion plus in liquidity. also, government borrowing at teaser rates. it's not such a hard thing to

flip the switch on $7 trillion in spending down in slap-happy d.c. listen, i warned back in 2010 about trickle down government. what do we have now? people protesting not getting enough mik jobs, low-paying jobs. the rhetoric out of the presidency is really bad too. >> mike, go ahead. >> you know what, i love john, and i get what he is saying about the government. here's the problem. reagan was a leader, and he acted, and it helped us. the problem right now is -- both big government status. >> john, i share your distrust of government, but sometimes you do need a leader like ronald reagan to knock heads together and say we have to change our tax structure. it's killing jobs. >> i couldn't agree more. policy, as steve points out and mike points out, matters. if we had the right person in office right now doing the right thing with taxes and monetary policy, we would be much better off, but i'll take gridlock if i

can't get better policy. i will give president obama one bit of credit. he did not reappoint ben bernanke. that was huge to our economic recovery. janet yellin believes the same poison, but she does not have the power that bernanke has been out has been a major factor in the revival, at least slightly, of the economy. >> what about leadership? you were right there in the -- you worked for the reagan administraon for a short time. i mean, is there anybody out there who has the umpf, who has the vision to change this thing? >> oh, i think a republican candidate running in 2016 will try to demonstrate that. i know of three who are thinking of running that will come up with a flat tax proposal. >> well, hold on a second. you can't tease us like that. who are the three? >> they spoke to me in confidence. >> oh, steve. come on. you are awe journalist. you are a journalist, steve. >> i'll be like a washington politician and break my word. no. not yet. so i think positive change is going to come out of 2016.

as for janet yellin saying these better than ben bernanke, she may be a different person, but in terms of policy, the fed is still in a mode of getting more power. they still won't allow credit markets to recover. she's bloating the balance sheet still. maybe she's better, but that's, again, like comparing the mets with the astros. they're not going to make the world series. >> probably going to end on an up note. unfortunately, we have to look leave it at that. with the new terror threats against americans, mixed messages from the white house. the gaining asking if d.c. is doing enough to protect our ves and our livelihood? first, right here, get ready to flip out. flip out. [ female announcer ] you get sick, you can't breathe through your nose... suddenly you're a mouth breather.

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now back to forbes on fox. for all your headlines, log on to fox news.com. well, next time you dine out, take a closer look at your dinner bill because more restaurants are adding an obama care surcharge. a group of california eateries now slapping customers with an extra 3% to pay for mandated health coverage for their employees. will more of our viewers start seeing the surcharges. what do you think, john? >> i think what's happening in california is beautiful, and i hope it leads to proposition -- it's beautiful what's happening here. >> why? >> the american people need t be reminded that government compassion comes with a cost. when politicians give out goodies, we pay for them. everyone should see the cost of

obama care, and if so, that means in the future when politicians promise things that they can't pay for, the voters will say we are not going to allow you to do this. let's have this go snagswide. >> rick, are we going to see it nationwide? are we going to see it everywhere? >> are you so missing this. i have been to manufacture these california restaurants. they are all expensive restaurants that cater to what? california liberals, by and large. they put the 3% separate. they could put it right into the menu. they put it separate. why? because they are using it as p.r. their customers love it. they love that they're doing this to benefit their workers. guys, you won't see it. >> wait a minute. steve, i don't know any customer anywhere who loves paying more money for anything. >> no, and if they put it in the prices, people would accuse them of price gouging, because it's a way to get the restaurants off the hook. by the way, in san francisco a lot of that money is not going for health care benefits. they devise formulas in a way where a lot of that money goes

in the hands of the restaurant owners. so it's another way with the politicians getting it or others get it. customer gets the shaft. >> bill baldwin, it is not just happening in california, by the way. we are seeing it elsewhere in the country. are we going to see it more? >> i wonder whether businesses really win the hearts of their customers by providing a laundry list ofxcuses with every bill. you know, a fuel surcharge, a universal connectivity fee, inflation surcharge. all these surcharges. airlines like to use these things, and cell phone carriers like to use these things, but reputable businesses don't. >> there is a cost, and the restaurants want to be clear with customers as to why their costs are going up. >> i'm with john. i think it's -- that's exactly right, david. that is what's going on. it's also happening in florida and minnesota, and it's not because people are cheerleading it. it's because they want to be transparent about why costs are going up. it's not food inflation. the other thing too is, david, i'm wondering if this will happen with fast food chains. maybe fast food workers will

wake up and see what is really happening to the overhead costs for their companies and how that could really hurt their jobs as we see protests rolling out. >> john, there is another cost, and this one is even harder in many cases than the surcharge, which is that a fed survey showed 21% of businesses are reducing their number of employees because of obama care. we've talked about this before. jobs as well as money. >> yeah. that or surcharges, what they're doing is they're exposing the oxymoron that is political compassion. we want to s more of this. people need to know that obama care comesith a cost in terms of higher unemployment. it comes with a cost in terms of higher restaurant bills. even if they're doing it to pkey ate their liberal customers, it's going to become fire on them. >> e-mailedon friedman says there's no such thing as a free lunch. in this case both a lunch and a health care have a cost. >> yeah. john, that's right in that sense. we should see more of it. years ago when con-ed in new

york, the utility, tried to break out all the taxes they paid, the legislature banned them from doing it. break out these embedded costs and see what is the real thing you're getting and how much you are paying for government. >> i see rick unger shaking his head. >> all due respect to my good friends on the panel. you are paying $40 for a steak at these restaurants. are you going to tell me -- >> we're talking about denny's in florida. you don't pay $40. it is happening in -- it is happening in florida with denny's. they don't pay $40 for a steak at denny's. >> the restaurants in california are all high-priced, $40 a steak restauran restaurants. guess what. if i'm willing to pay the $40, i'm going to pay $41.50. >> bill. >> i think this could get a little too ridiculous. what's going to happen? you go into a toyota dealership, and they say the car is free, but it's $35,000 for shipping and handling. this gets ridiculous. you shouldn't have to do that when you are a customer. give me the final bill. don't itemize. >> let's not lose sight of the overall here, which is that the president said this is not going

to cost anything. >> you stee in the people losing their health care, see them having fewerer networks in which they can go to. >> you are seeing it on your bills now, folks. coming up next, celebrities are still ticked over their nude pics getting hacked, but should they be kicking themselves chloe is 9 months old.

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well, even for hollywood this was over poexzure. the fbi's busy investigating how nude photos of stars like jenniferlawrence, kate upton, and rihanna were leaked by hackers. some blaming apple's icloud for not being secure enough, but who really desees the blame? rich, are you pinning this on apple? >> i think this is the biggest fake scandal in the history of mankind. you have these narcissistic celebrities who are complaining that their naked pictures have been released? i mean, come on. you know, i've got a bridge to sell you if you believe that one. >> mike, who is to blame? >> to me, david, it's the hackers, right? they stole private operty. >> that seems etty clear, but bill, everybody wants to blame apple. at least the people in hollywood do. >> i think i will, and let me ask -- >> are you going to blame apple for this? >> let me ask you a question. what do paris hilton, scarlett johannson, and sarah palin all have in common? >> beauty. >> something else.

they were all hacked by easy to guess, security questions. i think it's high time that apple figured out -- apple and everybody else, that these dopey security questions like your mother's maiden name, which i can find on geniology.com, those should be thrown out and we should start over with another system. >> all right. well, the fact is, steve, i frankly think hackers are always going to be in some areas one step ahead of the eators of things. don't you have to go back to the hackers themselves? they are the ones who did this, right? >> mike is right. it is stolen property, and i think that to blame apple, i mean, they act -- the pentagon, the iranians hack our banks. this is a real problem, and while this gets publicity because these are celebrities, the fact of the matter is this is stolen property, and the hackers should be hunted down if we can. >> well, rick, the argument could be made that we are all in show business. all people here are performers in a way, even though we're journalists, we like to think of ourselves as journalists. you were in hollywood. you spent a loof time there. who is to blame? is it the starlets themselves? >> well, there's two things i

learned being in hollywood one is nobody wants the naked pictures of any of us. maybe lizzie. not the rest of us. okay? that's number one. number two, having been in hollywood, i can tell you that rich is on the right track. >> really? >> there's no such thing as over exposure. >> really? rich, there does come a point where the person responsible f taking the pictur, i know it's private property, et cetera, but these days you got to expect that some of the stuff is going to be floating out somehow. right? >> yeah. exactly. as for the fbi's involvement, i mean, give me a break. they should be concentrating on people who have the potential to do real mischief, such as hacking into our 401ks. >> forgive me, but wake up, rich. most fbi agents are male. you don't think the males are going to be all over this story? the fbi guys? i mean, it's no wonder that they're all over this, right? mike, the other thing is somebody came up with a perfect fix for all this. store your naked pictures on lois lerner's computer.

they'll disappear forever, right? >> you know what, the best advice i think is if -- unlike rich, if this is not a scandal, you know, and this wasn't done deliberately, in this day and age, i think you just got to assume that any photo you take, anything you write, anything it's part of lois lerner and the irs, it's going to be out there forever. >> steve, that is the point. i understand that your computer information is like your own house, but nowadays you just have to accept the fact that the world is more open than it used to be. right? >> sure. but that doesn't make it right. >> doesn't make it right, but it makes it easier for these hackers to fwet in, no matter what am tries to do to circumvent it. >> don't blame the victim. if they want to get over exposed, they have other ways to do it. >> i think you are on to something there. thank you, folks. how can you protect your private information and boost your profits? [ male announcer ] if you're taking multiple medications,

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we are back. while protecting your private information. symantec. >> it's a software security provider, and it's working reportedly with companies like home depot to stop cyber hacking where are. >> you like it? >> it's a dead stock that's lying right where it was a decade ago. >> oh, boy. two very different opinions. >> emc? why do you like em >> it controls rsa encryption, which is behind internet security. >> but is that a good encryption? >> i don't like it because it's on an acquisition-based strategy

to increase revenues by acquiring companies. that's how it's boosting revenues. >> we have two opinions on both ocks. thank you very much, gang. that's it for forbes on fox. have a wonderful weekend.here. the number one business block continues with my buddy eric bowling and "cashin in." isis spreading like a deadly disease and president obama sounding like he wants to put a band-aid on the cancer. first he said this. >> we don't have a strategy yet. >> and now this. >> it is a manageable problem. as the 9/11 anniversary nears the president wants to make the isis crisis a manageable problem. well, maybe you didn't get the memo. this new memo, thousands of foreigners are here on student visas. they vanished into thin air. it's our government asleep at the wheel and putting our lives and livelihood in danger. plus. >> they're grabbing us by the hair and pulling us back. >> the d chairwoman accusing