saudi arabia is in full production. there is no more excess oil production in the world. fracking will die down. david: he is passionate man. austin, come here for a second. austin, come here. our veteran, god bless you, austin. god bless all vets. liz: "willis report is next. gerri: hello, everybody, i'm gerri willis. stunning, new video today, that shows how far obamacare supporters were willing to go to pass the president's signature legislation and the very low opinion the president's supporters have of the american people. one of the top architects of the law, jonathan gruber captured on camera admitting lack of transparency was vital to pushing the law through. listen to this. >> this bill was written in a tortured way to make sure cbo did not score the mandate for taxes. lack of transparency a huge political advantage. pacebasically call it the stupidity of the american voter or whatever, but basically that

was real, really critical to get this thing passed. gerri: appalling. appalling. when someone associated with the president's signature legislation insults the american people, that is exactly what he did. now today he is saying, he didn't mean it. he wants to take it all back but the damage is done, with more on this. paul howard, senior fellow for the manhattan institute. this gets under my skin in a way i can't really tell you, when people insult the american people, we tried to trick them. it worked. we got the legislation passed. that is exactly what we meant to do. what is your reaction? >> both parties will play three-card monty when it comes to the big programs like this but -- gerri: this is whole different level. >> this is whole different level. president making promises the white 6 white house new that was wrong. gruber said we had to be deliberately obtuse to the cbo couldn't score it properly. gerri: we had to tell the american people it wasn't a tax. that was the really. it was a tax.

it was definitely a tax. it wasn't a fee. they're adding to our tax burden so the president can claim he got the signature legislation passed. >> remember this passed on total party-line vote, razor-thin margin with blue dog democrats joining in. if the truth had been understood, those democrats might have dropped out we might not have the law. gerri: an mit fellow. can only come from somebody out of an ivy league college background, really well-educated. he calls us stupid. boy, that was not smart. >> only someone so smart could say something so insulting to so many people. gerri: and stupid, really, really stupid. i want to talk to you about what is going on with obamacare right now. we have open enrollment approaching. they say they're doing us a big favor by allowing us to get a sneak-peek what will be available, maybe. do you believe what will happen this time around, this year, this fall, will be as disasterous as what happened last year? >> i don't think it could be possibly as disasterous. they're low balling

expectations. they're expecting props. we're expecting lower enrollment than cbo projected by four million people. they're trying to get everyone to say there will be problems, lower than expected enrollment. anybody above that they will say that is gravy. they're setting expectations now. gerri: hear sylvia burwell setting the expectations. here is how she is low lowering the bar. this is secretary of hhs. >> i also know we'll have things that go wrong. the private sector, public sector, anytime when you have a system this complicated, when you have a product, healthcare is difficult in the employer-based market in terms of people understanding all the different pieces and parts. this is hard. we will have things that won't go right. we will have outages. we will have down time. gerri: seems to me an argument for not proceeding with the law. everything she said there, it is complicated. it is too hard to do. we can't make it happen. seems to me at end of the day you should have said we're not going to pass the legislation. that's not what happened though. i want to get you to respond

because i think these have been lies all along the way. what gruber says exposes those lies. i want you to hear the president talking about obamacare. listen to this. >> for 85 to 90% of the americans who already have health insurance, this thing is already has happened andhei onlmpac i th tir insuncestroner,ette ore sece tn ias befre full sp, tt' i they d't hav t wor aut ythg ee. amican lik ther cside theyill epheirocto. an ifou le yr insance pl y wl keep it. no oe wl bebleo takehat away from you. if you're one of the more than 250 million americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance. gerri: yeah, keep your health insurance. you can keep your doctor. the beat goes on. your costs won't go up. all of those lies now. and you know, we sort of soft pedaled and said, ah, they didn't analyze it correctly. they didn't know what they were

doing. reality was they misled us. >> they knew it. they designed the law that full effects wouldn't be felt until after 2012. the president gets through election, wins and seeing full effect.nces of law. employer mandate still delayed. people keeping insurance for a year and then lose that. the insurance companies are losing more protections. we'll not see impact until 2016, 2017. gerri: a long way to go. i'm sure we'll have you back. thanks for coming on to talk about. paul, good to see you. beside obamacare there is another potential showdown between republican congress and president obama, over idea that nobody should get better internet service than anybody else, net neutrality. they call it net neutrality, what it boils down to according to my next guest is a bold grab for power and tax dollars. lear to weigh in republican congressman darrell issa of california. he is the chairman of the house oversight and government reform committee. congressman, welcome back to the show. always good to have you on.

i got to tell you, this whole idea that the internet needs to be regulated by like a utility scares me because i know just how heavily regulated utilities really are. what is your reaction? >> well, first of all it is inappropriate for the president to call on an independent agency to make a decision the way he wants to make it. he already got to a point, three out of five democrats on the commission but, secondly, in washington be be careful what you wish for. he says he wants the internet regulated like a utility. well, guess what? your electric utility charges you by the watt that you buy, but if you buy peak watts, they charge you more. if you buy off peak watts you get a deal. you know you can can regulate like your electric utility and discover, guess what? it can be worse, not better. if you look at your phone bill, you know, congress and government and fcc mandated crazy special rates and lifelines. the internet works because there is competition.

the internet works because they innovate. if you let the fcc do this power grab, you will stifle any kind of real new technology. gerri: here is what people say who are in favor of this. they say look, look, we need rules, we need road sipes. we need people to understand how they're supposed to play on internet. you say what to that. >> first of all, there is no limit to competition. when you want to take a road you say i have to have it because this is the road. this is the public road. in in case you've got cable, you've got the dish networks and other satellites. you've got the phone companies directly both wireless and wired. and you have opportunities for additional ones. power companies can get in and use transmission lines. there is no limit to the amount of competition that is possible in this space. so it is not like if you will, a road. the truth is, the less government has regulated this industry, more it innovated for all of us. there isn't an example which

government government involved in something and increased the speed of innovation, just the opposite. when the government spun off the internet and privatized it, is when it went from esoteric thing went between universities and government age is, and it went to something that is revolutionized the world. if you want to continue that revolution, stay out of the way. gerri: congressman, a lot of venture capitalists and silicon valley disagree with you. they say, hey look, we need a chance for small companies to compete and thrive and we can't do that when companies like netflix are hogging all the bandwidth. should there be a government solution to that problem? what should be the solution to that problem? >> buyer can determine what they want. if the buyer is buying netflix and the seller, quite frankly, the seller is, let's say the wired or wireless carrier, they can come up with schemes that make sense for them to maximize their bandwidth and get revenue. the truth is, yes, netflix and other entities right now are

using up a lot of the space. you know, candidly, that's okay because they are causing drive to increase bandwidth from 2 -- 256-k to a meg, to one meg and 20 meg the truly the speeds we'll see are a result of large users. without the large users, you wouldn't get larger pipes. without the larger pipes you wouldn't get all the brand new innovative products. >> you have to ask the question, are the pipes big enough? because in europe and other places we find even faster speeds. how do we compete with that? >> well you know the interesting thing people are always talking about government-driven speeds. korea at one time was a model but we passed them. the fact is we have a lot of opportunities in this country. we have done some things perhaps that the fcc should look at. one of them is, what we think of as wi-fi or 802.11. they need more bandwidth. this is bandwidth you can't

sell. this is free bandwidth. if you open up more wi-fi space which connects to these cable and other high speed connections suddenly there is huge additional capacity for all of us. now that is something where the fcc, instead of trying to sell to make a couple of billion dollars, should provide unlicensed space and if they did so, we would be talking about huge increases in amount of capacity available for everyone. gerri: wow. >> it is in the fcc's lane. they can decide to make more available to the public for free, instead of trying to pick up a couple of billion dollars more against the deficit. and as a result, instead of public service you get something for sale. those are areas where i think that president should be weighing in and saying, the people deserve more of their bandwidth available to them for free and he could help the fcc do that. gerri: but, if the fcc does come in and say, hey, we're going to regular heat the internet like a utility, what are you going to do? what action might you take?

>> i believe it is outside the legitimate jurisdiction of the fcc i think it's a power grab. remember one thing, antitrust laws already are in place. if there is competition, competition will take care of essentially anyone who cuts a bad deal. someone else will come in to cut a better deal. if there is an antitrust situation, if a cable company or someone else is using monopolistic techniques, then in fact the courts are already available. we should use the laws we have, and not try to create, if you will, a new form of regulation as though government created the internet. government only made the internet go to a few kilobytes per second of the fact is, innovation in the private sector and demand, including the netflixs of the world, have, are in fact what is driving the companies to invest hundreds of billions of dollars in increasing speed. those investments need to continue. the fcc and the president are on the wrong track. gerri: on the wrong track.

congressman, thanks for coming on. thanks for coming in. come back soon. >> will do. gerri: still a lot more to come this hour including your voice. your voice is important to us. that's why during the show we want to you facebook me or beat me @gerriwillisfbn. send me an email. go to gerriwillis.com. at the government hour i will read your tweets and emails. next one of the biggest names in investing. vanguard's founder, father of the index fund, jack bogle sits down to discuss market investing and whether the 401(k) model as we know it is broken. wait until you hear what he says about the markets. stay with us. you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him.

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or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there are24/7branches? it's just i'm a little reluctant to try new things. what's wrong with trying new things? feel that in your muscles? yeah... i do... try a new way to bank, where no branches equals great rates. gerri: stocks are reaching new highs marking sixth straight day for gains for the dow. how should small investors handle share portfolios? earlier today i spoke with legendary investor jack bogle. founder of vanguard group and father of index fund. here is what he said. >> i'd say, just don't take it for granted that it will continue. expect, i would say, over next decade, don't expect looking

shorter term than. that expect decade of returns shorter than, lower than historical norms. historical norms 9% a year. six to 7% will be more likely over next decade. it is not as glowing. but i think highly likely that rational expectations for stocks in the range of 6 to 7%, will be better than the returns on bond. bonds are not good today. we have to hold them. we need the protection but they're offering a yield of less than 3%. and i think stocks will probably do around twice that well. so don't get out of the market. be prepared for big bumps. i can't tell you that the market won't go down 25% or 35% over the course of the next 12 months. how coy tell you about that? don't worry about it. gerri: i don't worry about it, i heard you say before. tell some of our viewers in retirement relying on bonds, what should they be doing?

>> if you're relying on bonds, had them for a long time, you probably gotten much higher yield than today's yield which i say, runs around 2 1/2%, 3%, very low. long term norm is more like 5%. >> i want to talk to you a little bit why you see that decline in stock market returns at this point. it seems right now u.s. very strong economy. possibly strongest on the planet. and yet you're saying you expect lower stocks market returns. why? >> well, the reason really is, simple as this. what creates stock market returns is not the market. the stock market is a derivative. stock prices are derivative value created by corporate america. that value today is giving you a 2% initial yield. and if it grows by four or 5%. that is where my six or 7% return comes from. in, in the past, that 9%, was about 4 1/2% earnings growth, about half. and 4 1/2% dividend yield.

well, dividend yield, at 2%, instead of 4 1/2 today, that is a 2% dead weight loss. in future returns. so it is pretty clear to me that the math isn't going to justify very high future returns. gerri: okay. talk about one of your favorite topics which is niece. -- fees. you doesn't like them. as a matter of fact, your index fund, you opened very first index fund, s&p 500 index fund in way back in 1974. seems to me, lots and lots of individual investors are following your advice and moving from actively managed funds to index funds. what do you have to say about that? seems like you have been proven right. seems like, you know, public opinion is on your side? >> well, public opinion and warren buffett, as you probably know. he is, leading, all the money he is leaving to his wife, 90% in the vanguard 500 index fund. so i'm not sure that, with all due respect to warren, i think it's a great judgment but there

is no certainty in all this. what we're seeing, and it worries me a little bit, to be honest, we're seeing such a great year for s&p 500, this year, 2014 is almost going to go into the record books. the index, s&p 500 index is up around 11%. the average large cap fund, kind of comparable to the index is up about eight. the average small and mid-cap are up maybe 3%. gerri: good times. >> only a quarter of the index and international market is down. so the index, s&p 500, is going to look better than it will look over the long term in the future this is a great year but don't take it for granted is what i would say to the index shareholders. gerri: so, i wanted to ask you about bill gross. and what happened at pimco. i think of you as the father of mutual fund investing. these were mutual funds. bill gross famously leaving pimco for another company. lots and lots of assets flowing

out of pimco. what does that tell us about the state of the mutual fund industry? >> the mutual fund industry will have to change. the mutual fund industry has a problem. that is most of the fund groups, the large fund groups and small fund groups alike are owned by private enterprise people, and they're owned by corporations, giant conglomerates. they have public shareholders. and they have got to appease or please the shareholders and management company, at the same time they're pleasing shareholders of the fund. often written, you may have seen this somewhere. no man can serve two masters. in our industry the master is being served, is the management company. we've got to make a big u-y, 180-degree u-turn and start focusing on shareholders where in vanguard a big advantage. we're owned by our own fund shareholders in this mutual structure enormously valuable to the conduct much our business. gerri: very different from other companies i might add.

>> there is no, no one ever copied it. gerri: no one ever copied it. no one ever copied you frankly. you're one-of-a-kind. jack, thanks for being on the show. really appreciate your time. great to see you. >> mice to invite me and good to see you. gerri: we had a little news from jack bogle. stock returns, according to him, he says, jack bogle says, will be in the 6 to 7% range over the next decade. that is down. but he said, bonds will fair worse. now we want to know what you think. here is our question tonight. have you saved enough for retirement? log on to gerriwillis.com. vote on the right-hand side of the screen. i will show the results at end of tonight's show. later in the show, our users guide to christmas shopping continues with advice for how to shop online and not get burned. we head out to dearborn, michigan, where ford is watching production of its ultrapopular ford f-150 trucks. jeff flock will have the latest. ♪

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gerri: well you waited for it, here it is. ford's new f-150 rolling off the production line today. the truck's body aluminum and ford hopes it will be a big hit. the old f 1/5 was top selling vehicle of any kind in america for a generation -- f-150. jeff flock woos on the new production line and has details from dearborn, michigan. jeff? >> this is what they call job one for the f-150. this is first one symbolically came off the line today. we have amazing pictures i think here today. this took a tremendous

transformation. some ways for the company but also of this plant. this is the old rouge plant, rouge center, multiple plans over years. look at time-lapse photography. literally had to remake the plant. as you know this is now all aluminum so it's a completely different process. and so, one of the other things about that process, you know you asked last time we looked at this vehicle, about the adhesives, proprietary adhesives they had to use to make this truck hold together. take a look at machines. we have pictures of machines that actually apply those adhesives. there is only rivets and adhesive. no welding obviously because it is aluminum. there are a lot of questions. people had questions. you asked them last time. if there is any lack of confidence about this truck, you talked to mark fields today, he is not showing it. >> it's a big day in dearborn and over my shoulder perhaps you see the star of this day, oh, there is another star of this

day. no. this is the real star. this is -- this is the real star. and the man behind the real star, that is the ford f-150 pickup. looks almost the same but almost -- >> oh, no, no. this is a ground-breaking truck. >> within analyst called it the most audacious engineering concept in the history of the company? >> well we believe, you set standards through innovation. that is how you maintain leadership. our customers told us they want a more capable truck and wanted more fuel efficient truck. that's why we're delivering with this groundbreaking aluminum alloy. >> take a look inside of the truck. a lot of capabilities as well, gerri, inside this truck. it was made, a lot of people think, because of the fuel efficiency, but they were talking a lot about capability today. it is not just about fuel efficiency. take a look at one-year chart. they put a lot of money into this. it cost the company a lot of money. some lost sales as they retooled

the plant. so you know, the stock has not performed tremendously well over the course of the past year. but they're betting that what they're doing here today, is going to have long term, positive impact on this company much. gerri. >> so i'm looking at you there and looking at truck. sure looks great but this isn't just about going green, is it? what we're seeing everybody is buying minivans and loadings up on big trucks. what is ford's desire here? >> well the irony of course this is being launched at time when you have gas prices for first time under $3 in the last four years. and as i said, the emphasis was on the performance of this truck, not just fuel efficiency. but mark fields also told me today, number one unmet need from truck owners is better fuel economy. they're used to better fuel economy with cars. they would like to have it with trucks. they think this will deliver on that. >> jeff, thanks for that great to see you. coming up next, our user's

guide to shopping continues as we go online with a look where to find the best deals and advice how to get the best prices. more of those websites start giving individualized prices. we'll tell you how to stay safe while shopping online. ♪ in china, impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of r mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.

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i have $40,ney do you have in your pocket right now? $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement?

i don't think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years, that retirement challenge might not seem so big after all. ♪ gerri: well,it time to holiday shop right and we're here to help you out with our user guide to holiday shopping. everything you need to know in search for gifts, the best bargains. we don't want you to overspend this holiday season. we'll be spending 44 percent of our time christmas shopping online on the couch. here with the details o get thet deals online. consumer analyst andrea, it's great to see you. >> thank you for having

me. gerri: why is it that people are spending all this time online? what is the big draw? >> i think shoppers realize that they can save time, that they can quickly access comparison sites to find the best deals. plus, there are lots of online coupons. it seems like a no-brainer way to shop for the holidays stress-free. >> i tend to spend less than when i go into the stores. i find all kinds of things that are not on the list. >> you're not temed by impulse purchases displayed on the aisles. gerri: i know you've been studying this and spent a lot of time. where are the best deals? >> the price war is heating up between online retailers this holiday season so if you aren't comparing prices, you could be missing out big. there are tools to help

you price compare. price gabber. camel. this will give you price -- if one retailer charges you more, but offers free shipping and returns you may be able to get price matching from the retailer online who is selling it for less. open up a live chat. don't fowrgt to negotiate. look for coupon deals. coupon sherpa where they aggregate coupons for different categories to see which retailer is offering you the deeper discount. gerri: here's my big question because i figured out these retailers are offering different frieses different people and different people. even i can get a different price by going online at different times of day. this is frustrating to me. i think there should be one price for what i'm buying. how do i make sure i'm getting the absolute lowest price? >> first of all, that's called dynamic prices.

pricing when retailers are fluctuating prices based on what the competition is doing, but they're also fluctuating prices based on your browsing partners and your purchase history. the first thing you want to do is clear the cookies from your internet browser. they contain information about you and your previous purchase history. you want to make sure they can't collect that and do avoid those price hikes if you had spent more in the past. you also want to dramatic price drops. (?) use a site like poach it, which will alert you if anything you bought recently went on sell. you can go back and ask for a price adjustment or you set an letter for something you're planning to purchase and this way you can buy it the cheapest to offer. gerri: i think you have to come to my house to clear my cookies. it's complicated for people out there. >> it's definitely a few steps, but use google to search to clear those

cookies. gerri: you say if you have specific brands you're buying follow them on social media. this is a great way to get coupons. >> that's right. i've unlocked secret coupon codes by liking liking brands on facebook. i've found 30 percent off a shoe retailer by checking their feed. you'll be able to get the deals sent right to you. and opt in to get emails president the stores will be giving you new coupon codes for those subscribers. i recommend creating a separate email account this way you don't get distracted with all those promotions during the day. gerri: great idea. i've been taking notes on everything you're saying. i'm ready to go. thanks for coming on. it was great to see you. >> thank you for having me. gerri: our users guide takes a look at the pros and cons of gift cards. that's coming up. now that you're up to

speed with getting that online holiday day deal, you want to make sure you're doing it safely. from may this year, 3 million cyber complaints were reported to the fbi. here to make sure you're not a victim is consumer advocate and founder of identity theft 911. adam levin. thanks for coming on the show. we were talking on the break. the numbers are far higher than what i just said. you said something like 200 million americans may have been hit in some of these attacks we've seen at major league baseball american retailers. >> the trail of credit cards comprised and the database containing names, email r email addresses you have more than 200 million people. gerri: let's get to hard-core advice for people who are worried and concerned about being safe. what's step number one to make sure i'm safe? >> user crediuse a credit card.

not debit card. even though some debit cards give you zero liability, you get much descrorng fraud protection. gerri: it's in the law. >> yeah. you get price protection, warranty protection, credit cards are just a better bet, a safer bet, and you can even go and get what's called virtual credit cards, where it switches the number every time you do a transaction. banks can arrange that for you. gerri: great idea. so many people get ripped off because their debit card and pass code, everything is at risk. one of the the big things we've seen this holiday season, people have had their email address stolen. so common. it is a threat, why? >> because you can be phished. phishing means, when you get a message through email that looks like it's either coming from an official institution, like a bank, or it's from your retailer.

and with so many retailers having been hacked and so many email addresses and names out there, you may get something, for instance, that your bank account has been frozen, which would terrify any consumer during the holiday season. click on this link. we'll take you to a site. we need you to reaffirm certain information and we can authorize your account again. you have to stay away from links. stay away from anything that looks promotional coming from a retailer. go directly to the retailer, if you have a mobile device, use the app. go to the retailer directly on that. be aware of links. if you use something other than than an app. make sure you spell the dmaim correctly. there are people collecting misspellings that create clone sites. gerri: i know there are people who got caught in some of these scams. targeting, neiman marcus, you name it. all these companies named in these scams.

as many have not reissued credit cards. they want to shop, they want to get people presents. what do they do? >> use your credit cards, but check your accounts on a daily basis. make sure every charge is yours. you can ask your financial institute to give you a new credit and debit card. some may help me and hawaii, but they'll do it. gerri: if you're on the wrong end of someone's bad activity (?) >> if you don't ask, you don't get. be bold. this is your life you're protecting. gerri: always great to have you. thank you. >> thanks for the invite. gerri: speaking of online shopping, one of the dumbs on soon to be republican agenda. ending sales tax. will they succeed. first, here's your consumer gauge with the numbers that mean the most to you. check it out.

gerri: heads up shoppers, don't worry about internet sales

taxes. a bill allowing states to collect online sales tax from retailers outside their borders is getting the axe, at least according to a spokesperson from joan barren. major retailers like walmart, targeting, and best buy are fighting back. here with the latest is jonathan hone i go, founder of the capitalist -- with a spiffy hair cut. great to see you, jonathan. >> thank you, gerri. great to be with you. gerri: why do they always talk about lowering taxes after the holiday christmas season. right. come on. >> they should be talking about lowering taxes and eliminating taxes year around. the brick and mortar stores are in a quandary. the online retailers have an advantage. we all have an advantage when taxes are cut. so instead of arguing to equalize taxes between the brick and mortar and the internet sales

stores, we should look about lowering and cutting them completely and the american consumer who benefits. gerri: that's a lovely pipe dream you've got there, jonathan. but i can't imagine states completely eliminating sales tax. (?) i was looking at how much they collect. it doesn't appear to be that much money. we got these numbers from the commerce department. it looks like it's under a billion dollars. not that much. but here's the argument: if you're l.l.bean, you're based in maine. your employees are in maine. you're using maine on his and you're shipping things out to alabama and california, new york, why should you be paying taxes in every state in the country? >> why should the government get any part of that trade? i mean, gerri, when two people trade whether it's l.l.bean and someone? alabama and anyone else, they both benefit from the transaction. i think the presumption is that government gets a cut. all i'm saying, let's make that cut as small

as possible. if we want to propose a 1 percent flat sales tax across-the-board for all states, something like that would treat everyone equally. instead of always finding a way to raise revenue, why not try to cut the spending. and as you pointed out, not that much in aggregate. gerri: earlier we had a story on taxes that weren't supposed to be permanent. temporary taxes because the economy was doing poorly. several states, many states passed these. guess how many still have them? most. >> right. and gerri, to your point earlier about the president and many politicians looking to regulate, well, what is tax? it's simply another form of regulation and control. so that's a new frontier of controlling our lives. and as darrell issa talked about it's so tragic. the internet has so much productivity. so much wealth creation has occurred. this is the government trying to get in the way of that. just say no to taxes.

gerri: i wish it were up to just me and you. but i don't think it will be. >> we have to make the moral case. gerri: and now we want to hear from you. today, i sat down with the founder of vanguard jack bowling for his take on what many feel like say broken system for what people aren't saving nearly enough. rick says, yes, i did. i retired this year at 56. whoa. i'm enjoying the good life. jenny had a different answer. no, i will work until i die and my nieces and nephews will be beneficiaries of my ira. david says, my retirement plan is moving south. so it's not so cold on the street. is that a jock? i guess so. next, turning around the va disaster it's the vow of the new chief this

veterans day, but is he succeeding. i'll ask one veteran for her take on this veterans day after the break.

gerri: on this veterans day as we honor those who have served our country, we're learning more about the plan of the restructuring of the veterans affair. the changes months after whistle-blowers revealed they covered up long wait times for veterans. and research. great to have you back. so, the new head of the va saying he's doing all kinds of things. it's all going to be better. are you buying it. >> well, i believe in his heart, he believes he will overhaul the

entire va system. but what i'm not hiring why he still has senior executives on the payroll who were found to mismanage and falsify records. we also have no problems being addressed on how the executives will start performing better. they have a last week performance rating aem wrs satisfactory performance rating and they also have a broken bonus program that have actually been the incentive for many of these executives to fossillify the records. i agree that he will try to change things, but i want to hear solutions for the problems that created this mess. gerri: well, i hear you. robert mcdonnell is the fellow you're talking about. well-known as a manager. not a manager of hospitals and health care institutions though and that may be the missing link here. do you think it's the lack of experience in this very arena that might cause problems? >> actually not.

i did hear him speak last week. he indicated the massive health care background with a lot of the procter & gamble products with distribution of it. that goes to show, when we had these great market products that were being found in the va system that weren't supposed to be sold, how did that happen? so what i'm not thinking is that it's not a lack of experience on his part. that this is such a massive bureaucracy that he's not aware of how to adjust and fix it because you have so many layers of corruption. it was systemic. it was not one location. it was throughout the entire va. gerri: you mentioned before and i think which is interesting, there are 35 people that mcdonnell says he wants to fire. another thousand that are under investigation, and he wants to give them some kind of discipline. it goes to your point, this is thorough going. throughout the system. part and parcel of what happened to our va. what do we need to be

doing? are we doing things too much at the margins? my goodness, he'll hire a consumer friendly advocate for the va. >> a customer service -- gerri: it seems to me everybody at the va should be that. >> exactly. he'll hire a customer service chief director. great. let's add another layer of bureaucracy. customer service is probably the least of our concerns. when you have executives falsifying records and sharon hellmann the former director of the va out in phoenix who has been on the payroll for six months on administrative leave. $170,000. we can all do the math and see how much she's made at taxpayer's expenses while he's waiting on criminal investigations. the law just got passed by congress and the president that you can fire due to poor performance. fire her, then you can have a criminal investigation and, meanwhile, send her to jail if needed later. gerri: so you think they're just not taking strong enough action

and could if they wanted to, not just being strong enough here? >> absolutely not. they claim they were firing five executives when in reality, many of them had already decided to retire or many resigned. one executive has been fired. one. the law was passed this summer to expedite the process when you have someone on administrative leave for six months, it doesn't sound to me anything is moving fast. another example of government bureaucracy and a slow train to nowhere. gerri: forty vets in phoenix died waiting for care. waiting 90 days for care. the list goes on. thank you for coming on the show tonight. it's always a pleasure to have you here and happy veterans day. >> thank you, gerri. thank you. gerri: a programming note to y r you. he talks about the man

who killed osama bin laden. you'll toptz this. >> they told us a couple of things, we'll read you in eventually. they said a few names that didn't make sense. a few you of us were talking about this person, this person, why would they be there? it's bin lad en. we'll get him. gerri: it airs tonight at 10:00 p.m. on the fox news channel. we'll be right back

gerri: and finally, it's veterans day the 11th of november, the day we honor veterans because it was this day 96 years ago when fighting ceased in world war i, the war to end all wars. our nation's veterans have given us so much and it's way passed time that we make sure we do right by them. the veterans administration must fix va hospitals. it's time, well-passed

time to make sure we're honoring our nation's veterans at every level, but especially in the care we give at va hospitals. that's my "2 cents more." and that's it for tonight's willis report. making money with charles payne is next. have a great night. charles: i'm charles payne, and you're watching "making money." obama architect offers a shocking admission the law preyed on the stupidity to pass through. in pushing through the president's unpopular health care law. so is this the sure fire win for the republicans to repeal the law once they assume the majority in january. rich edson is live in d.c. with all the latest on this obama drama. >> evening, charles. bills chipping away at obamacare are among the first pieces of legislation they'll try to send to the white house next year. republican leaders say they plan to shepherd bills through congress. reclassifying the 30 hour