"wall street journal" article last week highlighted problems they are having. [closing bell ringing] company on target that it is easy to use. david: folks, we were so close. of the looks like we'll not make it on the dow. nasdaq is positive. russell 2000, small and mid-sized caps stocks are doing just fine, thank you. up half a percentage point. on the dow we're looking for 7th up day in a row. looks like we won't get it as things seem to be settling in the negative. s&p going down as well. by a tick but not enough to maintain that green. that would be the 20th month, the 7th day in a row. that would be a streak that would loose for 20 months is last time we had a streak of seven in a row. we have a busy day for you. we have wilbur ross coming up with his best investment bet in a moment. "after the bell" starts right now.

liz: let's get to today's action. we have zack shepherd. saying there are two areas in the market investors should avoid at all costs. i have to hear that. kurt cambria, centennial properties. a way to invest in rising environment that we know is coming eventually. todd horowitz in the pits of cme. markets are flat not fair to say there wasn't any action because there truly was. >> first of all, good afternoon, liz and david. the action was very muted. there is big move to the on the horizon. i do believe it is to the downside. i have not switched my bearish position. the market is narrowing. we went through 100 points, 200 points, every single day. now we're lucky if we get 60, 70 point swing in a day. there is large move brewing here. we're up at mat mall level of

2040 for s&p. i think that will hold us in. i look for us to go much lower, fed guys talking again, like talking about interest rates. market looks like it is tired and there should be profit-taking. whether we get the correction not i'm not sure but i would see some profit-taking here very soon. david: zack, i know you're not a bear like our friend todd is. but on the other hand there are certain things to avoid. what are they? >> we avoid, all the time we avoid long bond and we avoid gold. and the reality if you look at last 20 years, gold has 6% return. s&p about 10% return. microcap stocks coming in 13% for roughly the same amount of risk. there is no reason to own gold in a portfolio. long bonds and other play there, a lot of investors are doing now. if interest rates go up a little bit, they will lose a massive amount of money. it will be ugly. liz: we don't want to lose money, curt. we never want to lose money. how do we make money what we know will be a rising interest

rate environment? >> well, i think you take the opportunity to look at financials and, companies that can benefit from rising interest rate environment. some of the big companies that haven't participated yet are maybe some of those in a dip right now like again worth financial. it had two really bad quarters -- genworth. fundamentally a really good company. it has a strong position in the mortgage insurance market. getting hurt with long-term care insurance. it can adjust premiums. as it earnings a little more in the reserves its profit margins can come back of the book value in the stock is at 24. i liked it at 13. in fact "barron's" said 13 bucks last month if i had a chance to move up between 50 and 80%. now trading at eight bucks. the steal of the year at that price. i'm telling you, it is a great deal. liz: it is $8 right now. >> i know. that is great. buy the dips and sell the rips. get in. buy the dips and sell the rips. >> todd, i'm hoping you're wrong

on your bearish call. i'm looking at one thing that might support it. oil is down over one 1/3% today. it is in the $76 range. does that buttress your point that perhaps this market and the economies of the world are getting kind of tired? >> i think that is exactly what that says. we look at it, a lot of people look at a tax cut. more in the consumer pockets. i look at it as sign of trouble. there is no demand. who is going to go out shopping now? there is nobody driving right now. we're not getting need for gas. we're not using oil. david: by the way, hold on a second, todd, there is a supply issue here as well. we know that the saudis have been pumping more money. whether because they're trying to get rid of u.s. producers or russian producers i'm not sure but the fact is there is greater supply because they're pumping more. >> absolutely. we're producing, we are one of the biggest producers in world right now. but the point is, is that lower gas prices are showing there is not a great demand for oil.

looking at stores like walmart will open black friday for five days. liz: hold on one second, todd. we have jcpenney numbers. the stock is trying to figure out which way to go on this cheryl. >> it is interesting, liz and dave. what is happening, we're getting numbers. a loss expected of 80 cents but the loss coming in at 70 cents a share loss that is a little better than expected. revenue a little bit shy on the revenue side, 2.76 billion. versus estimate of 2.81 billion. same-store sales. this is crucial for any retailer t was flat year-over-year for the third quarter. they're giving us projections for the fourth quarter at holiday season. we know what that is going to mean right now. of course they're saying, 54 cents. just getting cisco in. 54 cents adjusted. guys, switching gears. so sorry. bring in cisco numbers. 54 cents adjusted on cisco. what else do we have on revenue nice? 12.25 billion on cisco. for cisco, sorry throwing it at you all at once. that is a little bit of a beat

on revenue. let's look at cisco if we can. 54 cents on estimate. 52 cents a pete. the ask is pushing to the upside. not to go, not to harp on jcpenney flat on the same-store sales which was a bit of a concern. going to have to look for what adam mentioned. he can pick up on this in a few moments what we're talking about what happened with regards to the management shake-up overall. david: we should remember something about jcpenney by the way. on october 8th, when they had their analyst call they lowered their forecast. they did beat in terms of not losing as much money as they thought they were going to be losing. when you lower your forecast, you make it a lot easier, liz to beat estimates. that may be a what is. >> being -- spooking investors here. liz: it is indeed a loss. they were saying warm weather, cheryl, warm weather inhibited purchases of fall gear, fall apparel. >> right. liz: which tend to be higher

priced and has a good margin. but the margins coming in they claim will be better certainly. about 600 basis points better for the coming time. >> as, that is funny. liz looking at that as far as jcpenney with the september and october with the warm weather. what is going to be interesting here in particular because we've been talking a lot about competition coming in for the holidays. what you're seeing with, think about jcpenney's competitors, walmart, a target. macy's came in with rough numbers. all that factors what happens with jcpenney. they have that expensive real estate. they have to deal with. that they have to deal with a promotional environment that will be very, very rough for the holiday season. that is very good pickup, liz, in fact it will make a difference. fourth quarter comp sales, estimate 2%. that is not too strong, guys. david: todd horowitz, do you give jcpenney any hope? they really were close to biting the dust. they did make this comeback. what do you think about it? >> they're going to, they have no chance. they are going to bite the dust.

this will be a very rough christmas for a lot of people because of lower margins because of all the deals. jcpenney in my opinion, because of their real estate problems, because of their business model they have no chance. they're going out of business. the only question is when. doesn't mean the stock is going right to zero but they definitely will close their doors. liz: if you wanted to buy a retailer, zack has one. you like skechers. skechers is a company that suddenly gotten, how that is for transition, a little segue there. let's get to it. this can be a company that's a little touch-and-go here. but skx, what do you like about it? >> i love the fact it is a small value company. we tilt towards small value because that's where academic premium exists. you're looking between 3 and 5% in addition to just being an equity as far as holding, a company like skechers. but you have to be careful. you don't want to just pick sketchers as a stock. you want to put it into a portfolio, globally diversified portfolio that has 12,000

companies in it and hold it long term. david: curt, i want to go to you to talk about the consume part of the whole jcpenney equation. that middle class consume remembers not buying a lot. there seems to be a little bit of a comeback in that mid class and low end consumer. that should help retailers, right? >> absolutely. think as gas prices gone down, it is bigger stimulus than what our government ever could have done. jcpenney's, targets, walmart, that middle class, retail they're serves middle class america will have a great holiday season. david: let's hope you're right. >> i think good ol' american consumer will come back. i think it will be wonderful. i look for upward movements. david: let's hope for santa claus rally, gang. cheryl, breaking news. >> this is something i don't think any of us were expecting, cfo, cfo of cisco systems is stepping down frank calderon. he is stepping down from the company. not expected news from my

perspective, correct me if i'm wrong. they will name a new cfo, kelly cramer. the chief financial officer is crucial role at company like cisco systems. i wanted to get that out to your viewers. liz: thank you. part of when you have a gigantic question mark over cisco is because people don't know what will happen after john chambers, ceo and chairman, who shepherded company for a long time, what he will do. people talk about him retiring eventually. they have not name ad successor really. we've got him tomorrow. david: we will indeed. after-hours the stock is trading up. it initially came down a little bit after-hours. we want thank zack shepherd and kurt and friend todd horowitz. liz: and cheryl too. nice work. he made billions betting on out of favor industries. he says there is one place for people to put their money right now. where is that? wilbur ross, chairman of

w.l. ross chairman and ceo joins us next. david: one-of-a-kind climate deal with china when a lot of u.s. companies be talking about hacking and come back with some kind of a deal against chinese hackers. why can't we stop with the coming to stealing our information? we have former nsa cyber chief. you don't want to miss that. liz: are banks turning into risky investments. black friday turning into black week? will it lead into more profits by stretching out black friday several days? did the government silently admitting that aig didn't really need your tax dollars? maybe, maybe not. that and much more with our panel straight ahead.

liz: cisco shares inching higher with big news on management change. david: let's head back to adam shapiro at the new york stock exchange. i guess news is circulating there, adam. >> she is kelly cramer. before that she spent 20 years with general electric. she has been ceo for ge health

care businesses and life science and diagnostics. she held different leadership positions for general electric. she will replace frank calderon. cisco coming in with earnings of 54 cents a share which beat the street which was expecting 52 cents. revenue slightly better than expected. street was expecting 12.16 billion. liz: thank you, adam shapiro. wilbur ross made a fortune betting on beaten down sectors. he is a classic investors. he is not distressed but invested into distressed things. he made billions in steel and coal at their lowest points. that is how he works. david: not to mention real estate. he has his eye on another out of favor industry. we have will lure ross, w.l. ross chairman and ceo. wilbur, we're all dying to know what is the newest thing on wilbur ross's mind? >> i think oil and oil service companies are getting to be very, very interesting.

david: they have been beaten down. anything in particular there? a particular name or a particular sector of oil industries? >> i think the oil service people have been beaten down especially. but they all have. i think it is overdone. i think price of oil is note sustainable at these little prices. you're already seeing canadian oil sands cutting back. you are seeing some curtailment in the very high cost deep sea offshore things. you're seeing cutbacks in the bakken and some of the other high cost shale fields. it is not going to take long to change the price because it really gets changed by the last few drops that sell. not by the first 20 million barrels a day. liz: i don't know, wilbur. this seems different from your past real wins. your past real wins were not just distressed areas like coal and steel but they're dead, it is over kind of thing. oil doesn't strike me like that. >> i didn't say we bought

anything. liz: that's what you're watching? >> very carefully. liz: how much more of a downturn that you need to see before you scoop up? >> just like markets go farther on the upside you would think, temporarily they can go farther on the downside. there really hasn't been big capitulation yet in oil price. a few penny as day, a half a buck. that is not capitulation. david: interesting you say oil servicing because i remember when the real estate market was getting killed, you got into mortgage servicing. >> right. david: so it is that servicing part of the industry that always seems to appeal to you? >> we like that. a little bit less capital intensive. and therefore you can make a pretty good return on equity if you get your tying right. liz: how do you feel about a really beaten down sector, the miners? is that not something you're interested in? i mean you look at silver at these prices, just, a year ago silver was closer to 40, $45 an ounce and now it is hammered down.

gold doesn't look great either but, you know it is miners that have been really hurt. >> gold is different. gold is a psychological commodity. at least silver has real uses. liz: is that something that you would look at and watch and -- >> we're looking at mining things. i think there is more overcapacity and more pain to come there, however we do have a shedown. we have slowdown in china. >> right. >> we have slowdown in japan. japan is stuck between a rock and hard place in terms whether they haved tax increase. >> i don't think they will. david: bottom line they're not doing so well. china slowed down. europe, a couple of european countries already in recession. >> right. david: the whole region may go into recession. won't that auger badly for oil, oil prices? couldn't they slip further? >> oil consumption doesn't vary all that much because something like 70% of the consumption is transportation. so maybe trucks drive a little less in bad economic time.

maybe people drive a little less but, it is not that cyclical. the problem is more excess supply, not so much lack of demand. if we had just a 10% cutback in the canadian and oil sand alone, that is 200,000-barrels a day. 5% cutback and shale in the u.s. is 265,000. add those two together, that is half a million barrels a day. that is a big number. >> i want to revisit one of your more recent calls on fox business which is some greek investments. that is very interesting at a time it has been a herky-jerky. moves forward and couple steps back. how does that pay off? >> we think greece is okay. the one worry is about samaros we're very keen on him as a leader. he is coalition government. be in an election there pretty soon. we hope that works out, with a

regime, if not his, one that will keep the same policies. most recently we've gone into cyprus. liz: right. >> in fact i'm going over there next week. we're having shareholder meeting to make some changes. that is the newest thing that we really got into. david: producer is coming we have a wrap it. the election, does that bode well for stocks or not. >> i think it does. you saw what happened to coal stocks after it. i'm not sure that that is quite warranted because i don't think the obama administration is quite finished with their executive orders. but, i think in general it is better for investors because now the republicans really have a chance not to govern but to actually enact legislation, put it on the president's desk and we'll see if he vetoes them or not. liz: wilbur ross, w.l. ross & company. have a safe journey to cypress.

let us know how that goes. david: good to talk to you. two reports of hacking at hands of chinese while president obama is there yet there is no real talk or progress on stopping chinese hackers from infiltrating our systems. the president missing an important opportunity to get tough on china. liz: banks paying billions of dollars in fines over allegations they attempted to rig global currency markets. are more settlements on the way? does it make financials a riskier investment? david: and president obama's call for an open internet. his call actually to get the fcc involved in the internet causing an uproar. more on that straight ahead.

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liz: three u.s. banks were fined day, nrlyneilli llar eac f manulatg foig excngearks to boost their own profits. are more fines coming? what does that mean for you if you're trying to tray currencies? does it make financials as far as investment is concerned more risky? we bring in the panel. fox business's tracy byrnes. frost and frost cofounder, rob

frost and pimco strategies of investment michael pinto. this laundry list of currency stories is unbelievable. they were rigging all kind of stuff and you look at names of banks. bank of america, citibank, jpmorgan, along with barclays, rbs, hsbc. rob frost, does this make you hesitant to invest in currencies or invest in these banks? >> well, first of all i think the fines that came it unfortunately a little low. in my estimation they should have hit them harder. unfortunately is very unfortunate feeling amongst many investors thatype thin does is e fire. i think these people have what is coming to them. i wish they hit them with more. liz: michael look what some the things they said firm a, these emails. i prefer we join forces. immediately looking at collusion. >> collusion. liz: jpmorgan, perfect, sic, let's do this, down team them.

then he says yes. >> really encourage sympathy of the public after they brought down the financial system. now colluding through the financial system. not just foreign exchange market. also commodities and libor. i'm underweight investment banks and portfolio strategies. the yield curve will tighten but they're a favorite piggybank of the regulators. they're the whipping boy. they're going to keep getting fined and they bring it on themselves. liz: they do. >> why do they need to manipulate markets to increase profits? nobody believes in free markets anymore, liz. liz: you've seen jpmorgan in the past, say, due to legal fees, how about citi? due to legal fees we have to readjust certain numbers. this shouldn't paint all the people at these companies with a negative brush but nonetheless it really hurts the entire family of the company. >> liz, the financial etf, the xlf, is up over 16%

year-over-year. so fines or no fines, these stocks have been still going up. they're still muddling through. whether they are rejiggering numbers or whatever kind of accounting trickery they may or may not be doing, shareholders are still making money. so i don't know what you say to that. sure, we don't agree with what they're doing but as an investment i don't know how you shun them? liz: it's a tough ininvestment investment. i'll tell you something, weird to see competitors colluding. you don't see that when it comes to retail. we look towards black friday. it is vicious battle between walmart, target, jcpenney to get those types of people in the door but now walmart says we'll one-up everybody. we will do black friday deals but guess what? we'll stretch them out over five days. black five-day deals. then deeper into the november. let's get right to it, michael, what do you think? >> they can open the store 24 hours a day, seven days a week. i will not spend more on christmas or hanukkah, whatever

holiday you celebrate because the store is open longer. look, consumer incomes on real basis are down. they are still suffering from twice the amount of debt they had in the early 80s. doesn't matter if you keep the stores open 24 hours a day, they will not spend more on holiday. liz: store traffic is down more than 20% over the past several months and months. >> it has been. and i will say, i agree with michael in part of his comments there. i think what we're seeing is walmart doing anything they can to try to bring a shopper back. let's face it, for two years, walmart had declining traffic. now for seven consecutive quarters they have had, they have had less in profits. so they're really grasping at straws. everybody will follow suit. but the fact is, consumers will shop online. i do disagree with michael there for a moment though. i think this year consumers are going to come out. think i they right now they're paying less at fuel p.m.pes. they feel a little wealthier. i think they come it. liz: but what? >> there is nothing to go buy.

show me something exciting to go buy. liz: 60-inch panasonic television walmart is offering for a couple hundred bucks. >> i can order that online nothing getting me to the store. no productive to leave my couch to go see. watch your tech stuff to your point, your tvs, apple, phones will sell but, abercrombie & fitch, come on, there is no new sweater dragging anybody into the mall anytime soon. liz: we want to hear from you, i mean all of you watching. will you face the crowd or be like tracy, shop online this holiday season which is what i do. send us a message on facebook or tweet us @fbnatb. we'll have your answers coming up. hank greenberg the former ceo of aig abruptly yanked off the witness list in the aig bailout case are we looking a turning point here in washington, d.c.? could a walking dead movie be in amc's future? david, zombies we're talking about. david: zombies i love that

subject. president obama leaving china with a very questionable global warming deal. no deal at all on chinese hacking even though we have proof of a string of sigher attacks coming directly from the chinese government. what can the u.s. do to crack down on cyber attacks? we'll be tackling that one. speaking of president obama, his recent comments regulating the internet hitting a sour note with officials even some of those he appointed. we'll have details of that coming next. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates.

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liz: as fox business told you exclusively yesterday, that the government had pulled hank greenburg from its witness list in a bankrupt move, it happened this week in the $40 billion aig bailout case. why did the government do that? some might say the government is getting cold feet. others say they just have to rejigger their strategy. either way, tracy byrnes, what does this mean? again, let's remind people. aig was bailed out by the government. however the government took equity in aig and imposed a very heavy interest rate of 12% on them and then, bailed out goldman saks and morgan stanley stanley and other banks at a much better rate. >> i think it may mean hank greenberg may actually win this. this may set precedent in the future. that is most important. however the judge rules on this will be in the record books because right now there are no opinions.

there is no background. there is nothing to go by. whatever the judge says could set precedent for future. liz: aig of course was the company that insured a lot of toxic debt. let's just remind people of that. problem, how do you feel about this? again the law is the law. the law states that the government can not seize equity in any company. it cangy a deal. it can give a bailout but at fair terms. >> right. well, i say let's put greenberg on the stand and let's find out. when we go back to 2009 and we look just how close we came to a catastrophic situation what most people don't understand approximately 70% of the airplanes in the sky were insured through some aig company. which means had they failed, they would have had to ground 70% of the planes in the country. that could have been catastrophic. so it was a very slippery slope. now what the coming in and seizing basically aig and holding them hostage, time will tell, the courts will have to decide whether or not that was fair or not. liz: this was treasury secretary hank paulson, at the time

new york fed chief timothy geithner, michael pinto, of course ben bernanke they were in on the discussions. what they didn't do was take hank greenberg's calls according to what we heard from the trial. hank greenberg was not ceo at that point but largest shareholder said, i could have gotten bailout money from private sources ie, china or singapore. >> but he didn't get it. maybe -- >> didn't have a chance. >> i'm sorry? >> he didn't have the opportunity. he didn't have a chance to? >> what do you mean he didn't have opportunity? why didn't he say i have china on the other line and itch $80 billion i'm going to be able bail out aig? i find it repulsive that a company almost brought doesn't entire global financial system is now retro arc testifily complaining about a bailout that they voluntary took. perhaps they are pulling hank from the stand because they don't want shine a spotlight on overreaching powers of federal reserve, forcing onerous interest rates and forcing an

equity stake in aig but the whole then stinks all way around. liz: move on to the "walking dead." from the walking situation in d.c. "the walking dead" dominating one viewers attention. it is television's most popular drama. this is interesting because it of course is produced by, there you see, it is on am cnet work. is this a sign of the dominance now of cable networks versus traditional broadcast networks? rob? >> i don't necessarily think so. i think what it really tells us is a little more about the blood-hungry people that want to watch these shows there. i think they're thirsty for blood and gore. jo maybe it was too violent for broadcast networks, tracy? >> says everything about the broadcast networks. says no one is watching them really anymore. it is all about cable. it is all about streaming. >> "breaking bad." >> exactly. "orange is the new black." "house of cards." that is it what people are watching. >> all the talent is leaving

broadcast networks and going to cable. i don't understand it. liz: do you invest in amc directly? will there be a "walking dead" movie at some point? >> please no. >> probably already is. >> i will see it. >> my daughter's is 15 years old. she never watches regular tv. watching everything online. >> don't watch anything live anymore, except football. >> only sports. liz: only sports. good to see all of you. thanks for playing. tracy byrnes, rob frost, michael pinto. david? david: president obama called on fcc to impose stricter regulations on internet. now the fcc is fighting back. rich edson is live in washington. rich, the irony is this is president obama's appointed chairman of the fcc, right? >> fcc is independent though, david. this is where some tension could develop. shortly after president obama announced his internet service regulation proposal fcc chairman tom wheeler met with several tech companies.

"the washington post" reports that wheeler told representatives from companies like etsy, google, yahoo!, that he prefer ad different approach from the president's. however an fcc official is pushing back on that report. the official tells fox business that wheeler has yet to decide how to design new regulations for internet service providers and still considering the president's plan. president obama is urging the fcc to use its authority to reclassify the internet as a utility to insure net neutrality. that is the principle that internet service companies treat all traffic with the same priority and speed. the official also says there will be no fcc vote on net neutrality this year. the tech industry is reacting to that uncertainty. at&t ceo randall stevenson says quote, we can't go out and just invest that kind of money deploying fiber to 100 cities other than these two million, not knowing what rules that investment will be governed. so we have a pause and we have to just put a stop on those kind of investments that we're doing

today. if the fcc eventually approves new net neutrality service regulations, analysts say they will very likely end up in court again. david. david: don't want to start another half-baked government program. thank you very much. rich edson, appreciate it. liz: up next, wells fargo's chief financial officer in a fox business exclusive, telling us what the company is doing to prevent hackers from getting your personal information. david: oh. liz: and what kind of potential threats that the bank is facing. david: also president obama's in beijing or was for high level talks but he left with no deal at all, none, on cybersecurity. why aren't we getting tougher on china as they ramp up their attacks on our economy and our defense? we'll ask a former nsa executive. liz: it was a tense moment on the side of one world trade center. look at that schott. -- shot. this from downtown manhattan earlier today. two window washers did get rescued after being trapped on

scaffolding around the 69th floor. emergency responders from the police and fire departments along with the port authority worked very hard to rescue the workers and to secure the dangling scaffold platform. happy ending to this one. (receptionist) gunderman group. gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money? time and money. awesome. awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! (all) awesome! i love logistics. get to the terminal across town.

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liz: we've been asking you if you plan to face the crowds or shop online this holiday season? so here is what chris said. says shopping online can not replace the rush you get from shopping. join the conversation -- nice to see all the decorations and all of that. well, sent us a message on facebook. tweet us @fbnatb. more of your answers straight ahead. david: president obama leaving china without any noticeable concessions from the chinese, particularly on the issue of their internet hack interests. so did we just insure that china's cyber attacks are going to get worse? joining me robert stasio, truman project and former member, more importantly of the nsa cyber center. you have information we probably don't have, robert, about their attacks but it is getting more serious and the senate just released details, they declassified incidents including one where the people's liberation army stole flight

details and password for commercial airlines contracted by the u.s. army. that is important because about 90% of our troop movements are through commercial airlines and they know what our troops are doing and where they're going. >> correct. that i'm on some of those civilian transports going over to iraq during the surge. definitely concerning. david: even senator carl levin, who is a democrat from michigan and takes him a lot to get riled up about what this president does or doesn't do, he said the security of our military operations are what is at stake. have they been compromised? >> well i think, you know, kind of remember this phrase from the counterintelligence community, countries don't have friend. they have interests. so, in this case, countries are going to spy on other countries. are we going to be able to negotiate a deal with china we have with our english-speaking partners like the u.k., canada, new see lan and australia to

limit espionage? probably not. one of the issues that we face today is that a lot of our critical infrastructure in cybersecurity is actually in the private sector. about 90% by some estimates. so, where we have a lot of capability in the government side of organizations like nsa and department of homeland security, there is really not a lot of ability to bring it down to the private sector. so that is kind of where it lies. david: the point is here, robert, a lot of the private sector and public sector are intertwined in areas of defense and i'll mention another one. this is really sort of in your face. in the same week that the president was visiting china, they rolled out this new jet fight they're they have. it is called the j-31 fighter jet. it has all the stealth technology. there it is. if it looks familiar, because they stole a lot of elements for this plane from our own f-35. and they did that through cyber attacks against lockheed martin that built our plane.

>> right. that is a huge issue with china is, they use their state-sponsored military assets or their state assets to take secrets from our private sector. they even us it to leverage deals in their direction. there was an example a couple of years ago where they disrupted a deal with a canadian fertilizer company so their private industry would actually acquire this company. it disrupt ad multibillion-dollar deal. so that is actually the biggest bone to pick with china specifically is that, you know they're using their state-sponsored assets on our private sector. we don't do the same. david: robert, we didn't get one deal on cybersecurity. that not only makes people leak carl levin mad, a democrat like carl, i'm thinking of all the president's supporters in silicon valley. facebook is still illegal in china by the way. there are a lot of other issues they have. all the president's friend in hollywood, by the way they were hoping for some kind of a

copyright deal because of all pirated tapes they have, nothing on any of that. is it because it was unattainable or because we're bad negotiators? >> maybe he had a lot of other stuff going on with the climate deal. you know, i think it is not necessarily focused on china for these things, with ip theft and copyright theft. it is actually a wider issue. some of it is a little murky. sometimes it's a state-sponsored actor. in the case of copyright theft it is often individual hackers. instead of focusing on one particular country it is probably more prudent to focus on larger problem at hand, with additional cybersecurity and cyber intelligence. i think that is where the focus should be. david: the larger issue is our own national security. the former nsa cyber center chief of operations. robert, thank you very much. liz? >> thank you. liz: all aboard. we're headed on board the royal caribbean smart ship.

the ceo makes his case who and why people are pill willing to pay up for things like skydiving on a cruise ship. economic data, retail earnings, big speeches in washington. all of it on deck for tomorrow. we break down the number one thing to watch with rob frost coming up next. >> hi, everyone, i'm gerri willis. coming up on my show at the top of the hour. a brand new report on the housing market. where are the most affordable and most expensive parts of the country? we'll have all the details. just one of the big consumer stories coming up on "the willis report" in just a few minutes. $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don't think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years, that retirement challenge might not seem so big after all. ♪

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liz: here is a look at some of the highlights from today's very busy day on fox business. we'll start with wells farring gee cfo telling maria bartiromo in a fox business exclusive how often his bank gets hacked. >> i don't know what the daily number is but it is continuous. we have 24/7 teams look sitting in rooms looking for penetration. penetration from the outside is one version of cyber risk. penetration from the inside or from a vendor or somebody else is another. so you have to have your defenses up everywhere. >> it has guided workouts for you from gold's gym and men's fitness. walk you through, do a couple of sit-ups, do some push-ups. and it knows when you're doing each exercise and how much you've done. takes entire heart rate. like a personal trainer on your wrist which is awesome except i

don't want to wear it. >> features the north star, basically a capsule that goes 300 feet into the sky. bumper cars and simulated skydiving which you tried. you like those features. >> you do. not everybody wants all of them. what we want and what is actually proven so successful for us to give all the choice empty world for you. so you have lots of places to dine. lots of activities. if you don't enjoy it, if you're too wimpy to take the skydiving, you can go watch others do it. it is a great speck take tore sport. david: how cool is that. we were all drooling. watch all of today's interviews and see more videos on foxbusiness.com. liz: we asked you on facebook and twitter, do you plan to face the crowd or shop online from the coast aniness of your home this -- coziness this holiday season, troy said, online. no way i will shop at malls or stores. david: i like amazon. lb says i will be on my backside with a laptop in place.

liz: linda said i did third option i got it done early and it is all done and wrapped. linda, you're hired! david: time for number one thing to watch, let's bring back rob frost, frost and frost. if you have seen this guy, might be identical twin brother. that is the other frost. number one thing to watch. what is it? >> tomorrow the jolts report. david: which means. >> job, job openings and labor turnover report. so story sorry,. david: good for you. >> what that tells us more about two things. first of all tells us how many people are quit jobs. why is that important? if they're quitting jobs they feel really good about the labor market. they want to take a job somewhere else. and other thing that it tells us, how many available jobs are out there. so the jolts report very important. >> liz: it is a crucial report. we as always get first-time jobless claims. that is interesting to see. trending to very healthy number.

>> we have. no doubt the labor market is looking better. will be interesting to see how that translates to consumer spending here with the months to come. david: i will push back a little though. i think if we want to get back to levels we should be at because we never grew at post-recessionary levels we were supposed to grow. we were growing 2% or even less some years after the recession. we have never gone over 3% in the years since the recession. after the reagan recession we were growing, four, five, six, seven, 8% in some quarters. >> there is no doubt that the jobs picture has been so disappointing coming out of this recession and it is the one thing everybody looked at, said when the jobs picture is better, people will feel more comfortable. the fact is even though jobs have come back they're not higher paying job. david: we're still in deficit. >> absolutely. who knows. it may take years to finally get back to the postrecession numbers. >> all right. >> great to have you, rob frost. we want to remind you, that fox

business will have all breaking earnings numbers. then the -- foxbusiness.com has everything you need. david: meanwhile we have gerri willis to take you through the next hour with the "willis report." we'll see you tomorrow. gerri: hello, everybody, i'm gerri willis. it's been six weeks since bill gross abruptly left the firm he helped build over 40 years ago. since then investors have been pulling money out of pimco's flagship fund. how much can this firm withstand before sustaining lasting damage? what about that damage to individual investors? "morningstar" has conduct ad top to bottom review of the company since gross left. its director of manager research active strategies, michael herbs is here with his findings. we're joined by fox business senior correspondent charlie gasparino. welcome to you growth both. michael, i will start with you. i will pose the question we asked in