considerable talent. i wish you luck without any intent of offense. thanks so much. >> thank you. lou: thank you boat. that's it tonight. stay tuned for cavuto. good night from new york. coming up next. neil: tonight on cavuto, (?) democrats hailing president obama's climate deal with china, but in a minute find out how we missed a huge opportunity for a much more important deal. why you're getting the raw end of this deal. and are stocks going to crash like in 1929. the folks who predicted the great aggression on why we could see another great recession. that's coming soon. even the fcc says this fight goes too far. why the president's open internet plan may close everyone out. then everyone is talking about controversial comments from obama's architect. wait until you hear what he said right here on this show. only here, only tonight,

starting right now. (?) welcome, everybody. i'm david asman in for neil cavuto. and chalk it up do odd timing, president obama announcing a sweeping climate change deal with china just as a cold front is sweeping most of the united states. the administration says this is a historic pact, but businesses -- packing while the country braces for a brutal winter they're bracing for new epa rules this winter. chris horner and small business expert susan say this renewed climate rush won't impact the environment, but it will freeze out businesses. chris, let me get the deal straight of what happened with china. we double our reduction of carbon emissions and essentially china keeps polluting until 2030 have i got it right. >> if you believe what we're exailing is pollution then, yes,

china says their baseline for productions will be several decades in the future. business as usual for them while we promise to do twice what europe has done to itself. in fact, much more because they got a free ride really. so he's told the world what he's going to agree to next year, which he's told the world he won't treat as a treaty because it wouldn't get enacted. he's begging the senate, you're in a legally meaningless way not speaking for the us, but you're freelancing. david: i'm wondering if the president saw the election last week. >> he's like the teflon guy. nothing sticks to him. he didn't hear what was going on. we don't care about climate control right now. we care about jobs, and the economy and taxes. in your opening, david, you talked about getting a raw deal. small businesses are getting the real raw deal here. did you know that the environmental epa regulations cost

362 percent more for a small business than a big business on average over $4,000 per employee for over 20 -- a company with 20 or less employees. only 800 when you're in a big company. huge. and now, we got more regulations. david: the question is what you get for all those extra expenses in the regulations, and you look at this winter storm, and you're thinking, maybe not a lot. the weather doesn't seem to be getting warm as global warming experts said it would. >> the models are all proved wrong which is a big red flag. what it's premised on is proven wrong. the biggest red flag there's a consensus that nothing is -- even after perfect implementation, it would have zero detectable impact on climate. so it's about something, it's quite plainly not about climate control. a lot of those big businesses are lobbying of this.

when you rob peter to pay paul, you have paul's enthusiastic support. i would call china paul. they're going to pull the plug if the world doesn't come into their misery. the us has been a success story compared to europe. we're desperate to model ourselves after them. that's insanity. david: a lot of european countries that went down the green energy root have been pulling back dramatically countries like spain and germany. >> exactly. i think we're seeing that. here's the thing: i don't know. i'm not a climate expert. i'm not a meteorologist, but a lot of people say historically we've gone through these dips and things through the years. how do we know. i spent the last couple of weeks in california, phoenix, las vegas, it was warm there. i'm in st. louis, it's freezing cold. where is that global warming when you need it. david: one thing you know about is small businesses and the impact that some of these

emissions regulations have on them. do you think that the president spoke at all these small-business people -- we'll be talking to one after this segment. >> i tell you, david, he absolutely doesn't get small business. it's been through his administration a lot of rhetoric. this is a marketplace totally ignored during the obama administration. we know according to the nfib that taxes and government regulations are the two key things that are keeping small businesses from rebounding. and i think, you know, if you don't listen to that and you add more regulations on there, it is the choke hold that is suffocating small businesses. david: chris, there anything the new congress can do about this. >> several things. you can make sure no aappropriated rules are spent on these green gas rules. a sense-of-the-senate just like before kyoto, the president is

freelancing. or our courts, the rest of the world should not take this as a sign that we're committed to anything. he's speaking for himself, not for us. that would cut this off at the knees and this paris kyoto two would be a dead letter. that would be first in my mind. change the law to make sure it says -- every time they amended the clean air act, which is they rejected regulating carbon dioxide. they were given the opportunity. make sure the courts can't rewrite these laws and the president. >> my concern it seems like obama understands or thinks he's been owner aided king and he can do whatever he wants. that's my big concern. david: good to see you both. thank you very much. secretary state applauding china and the us for acting together. top-ranked republicans are blasting obama for acting alone. he's going to too far for making a deal

without consulting congress. robert murray agrees. he's even suing the epa for going too far on the o existing regulations. what do you think about this china deal? >> i think it's terrible for america. it is another attack, david. on low cost, electricity, and reliable electricity in our country. first, the deal basically requires china to do nothing until 2030, and then it's not clear then. yetyet he asks the united states to reduce carbon dioxide. people should not buy this. from his democratic supporters. this is an attack on low cost electricity in america. it is an attack on any businessman or manufacturer in this country that is creating jobs in this country to export a product into the global marketplace. this is insanity, sir.

david: you have an energy company. murray energy. you know about the energy business. were you consulted or do you know about any other energy company -- before the president announces this so-called deal? >> president obama has never consulted me ever on any issue, notwithstanding that i believe i'm an expert on the cost and reliability of electric power in this country. never has he. he has only consulted his environmentalist, his radical environmentalist supporters who are in collusion with his us department of energy. david: hold on a second. what do you mean in collusion. in what way are they in collusion? >> investigations going on right now by congressman issa and others in the house of representatives showing all the secret communications between the radical environmental movements.

the sierra club and the people running the epa. these people came from the environmental movement. when they leave the epa, they go back. he has bypassed the congress, the senate, the states. the utility commission of the states, and has now put the reliability and the cost of electricity in this country -- david: there was an election last week, and the american people spoke overwhelmingly they want a new direction for this country. new policies. i look at what happened in china and think because of that election, this so-called deal will fall apart, don't you? >> yes, i do, but my concern is, sir, will the democrats that did not run for office this time or the ones that are newly elected step up and sustain the overrides of the obama vetoes. that's what the american people need to look at. are they going to be

americans? or will they continue to be party hacks and support this incompetent, evil president. david: all right. your views are very clear, we thank you very much for coming on. robert murray from murray energy. he's the founder of that company. president obama coming home with a big climate deal. but no cyber deal. the us postal service and apple's icloud the latest to get hacked by the chinese government. so does our government have its priorities straight. liz, mcdonald, veronica dagger, tracy byrnes. there is no question both republicans and democrats admit that the chinese government is behind a lot of hacking that's going on, some of it affecting our national security, but there was no deal on this in china. >> the president actually in said cyber terrorism was the biggest threat, but

apparently now it's smog in china. we lost focus there. i think the president came home with nothing overseas. not even a good spot in the picture when he came back dealing with putin. putin went home with the gold trophy. that says a lot where we are right now. david: even some of his friends didn't get squat. facebook is still illegal in china. even president obama's friends in the movie business didn't get anything. they wanted some copyright bills passed. they didn't get that. >> lot of missed opportunities for our businesses here. like you said, the risk for some of these hackers is huge. the hacking out of china is a threat to companies like apple. it's a threat to us as a country. it could hurt our economy. the economy is the number one issue. we need to make sure we're as secure in possible in what we do

have. david: add insult to energy inj, they premiered their new jet fighter which they stole the design from our fighters, f35. i mean, this was right in your face to president obama. >> and, by the way, there were five military officials in china who were basically indicted by the us system here. they'll never been extradited. they'll never be brought to court. so, you know, this climate change thing for china is about as ineffective as, you know, this whole thing about cyber security. china will ignore the climate change deal, which they have 16 years to basically blow off. and they'll ignore any complaints about cyber hacking our national security officials are saying in an event say china invades taiwan, they can disable us satellites and disable computer networks to basically shut down any us response to that.

david: we're getting an idea from declassified reports that have come out through senate committees of some of these hacking that really focus on our national defense. the people's liberation army stole flight details and encryption passwords for commercial airlines. 90 percent of all our troop movements are handled by commercial airplanes. they know how our troops are being moved around the world. >> there are russia hackers just looking at stuff. they're phishing. they're a looking to know when the time is right and they're ready, they can pounce onous. watch our grid go out. there's a lot we have to worry about and we're not. it's a missed opportunity. and to robert murray, thanks to the freedom of information act there are emails proving the sierra and epa are all in cahoots to push their agenda forward. david: nothing concerns me more than the national defense. and it has been

comprised by the chinese government, and the president did nothing. lip service to it, but nothing subjective. >> we've been hacked by the russians. they're targeting us. we have to do something and say something (?) david: is there anything the new congress can do? >> sure. a lot they can do. will the president veto it, is the question. we talk about a quiet arms race. it's in computer technology and in cyber hacking. you talk about how facebook didn't get into china. the irony, the chinese people need social media to talk about how smog is killing them there. this is a more important issue, it really is about hacking and cyber hacking. david: ladies, thank you very much. what do you think of this climate pact. go to facebook.com/team cavuto. we'll reach your answers on the air. republicans have big plans that include big spending cuts and even big tax cuts. why is denny hastard saying it could all

backfire. the speaker speaking out next.

david: the g.o.p. is ready for a fight and it looks like they'll get one. we're hearing the house agenda includes major reform. welfare reform. a full on obamacare repeal. big spending cuts. even tax cuts on the rich. denny hastert on whether this is the right strategy. mr. speaker, some say it goes too far. what do you think? >> i think it would be the right strategy, but it has to be done carefully and smart. what the republicans have to do, if you're going to attack and go after obamacare, it has to be in reconciliation. that's the only place we'll get 51 votes and pass it in the senate

and override the president's veto. and, by the way, i think you can do that, but you have to have something in place. and i think republicans are working hard to do that. when you talk about tax cuts for the rich. hell, when you talk about the biggest tax cut we can give is bringing back capital stranded overseas. there are trillions of us dollar. this is a big tax cut for the rich. it's not a tax cut for the rich. it's how you talk about it. david: it is how you talk about it. but you know how the democrats will spin it. look, the rich got the bailout in 2009. a lot of stimulus money. they're getting money from the fed and we the middle class are getting squat. across-the-board tax cuts so everyone gets a tax cut. >> we did it when i was speaker in 2001. i'm for that. that's the way it ought to be. everyone should get a tax cut. that money goes back in

people's pockets so they can decide how to spend it instead of the government. if you bring capital here, you create jobs. that money goes into create jobs. who gets the jobs? it's the middle class. it's the guy who can drive the pickup truck. it's not buying a cadillac. david: i want to go back to who is leading whom. obviously the president is sort of the chief of staff, if you will, but congress had an amazing election which they won overwhelmingly from the statehouses all the way to the senate. isn't it the case that congress has to take the lead now? the president clearly wants to with all these executive orders, but if congress keeps loading up his desk with bills, he's not going to have time for all these executive orders. >> look, he'll want to bypass the congress. and congress doesn't want that happen. they have to come back with real issues that focus for the right thing for the american people. you look at tax cuts are

important. it's important for everybody. bringing capital back for everybody is important. the president can't by pass those types of things. that has to be the issue. david: mr. speaker, just in sheer number, wouldn't it be almost impossible for the president to get anything done with his executive orders if he faces like 20 or 30 or 40 bills that are on his desk within a month? >> well, you know, executive order and stuff have to be passed through congress. he could ignore what's on his desk and pass executive orders. that's the problem. you have to have something moving that he has to engage in. so you need to get him engaged on real issues. and, you know, you have to have a dialogue. you have to bring this guy in and try to get him involved in a dialogue. i don't know if he'll do it or not. [no audio] david: he can either veto them or sign them? >> you can veto them it's easy.

david: can he veto -- i think back to when there were a lot of vetoes, but even president ford didn't veto every bill coming his way. >> for his legacy for him to do something, he better engage with the congress. i'm not sure if this guy will. he better listen, but, you know, there can be some good -- [no audio] things unless he engages it won't happen if he ignores the congress he won't get anything done. david: if he totally ignores them there will be enough republicans to override some of these vetoes. thank you for coming here. the battle over the internet is on. the government wants in. next, find out why you will be paying up.

david: president obama has called for strict internet rules and it's seeing resistance. wheeler reportingly saying he will ignore the president's call to regulate the internet. and michael powell telling me earlier what the president is asking for could actually lead to sensorship. >> the definition of what a telecom service is under the statute that the president is calling for being used

as our national internet policy is so ambiguously written it could have a whole host of applications we could never imagine were regulated by them. david: free press craig earn says the internet needs to be regulated. we heard mr. powell, we could see censorship. we could see regulation of content in the future. do you agree? >> i'm puzzled by those comments. i guess i'm much more worried about traditional price control regulation, and i think there's kind of a romantic view of what traditional telephony communication was like and everyone is forgetting how difficult it was and how it restricted entry. in that way, i would agree, if he means by entry restrictions, that would be a form of censorship. david: you run an organization

of free press. you're worried about censorship of any kind. when the government gets involved, as we've seen in china, that can lead to censorship and it has around the world. >> i think censorship is a worry for everybody. government and corporate. david: you're putting a false parallel. government has a lot more power than business, does it not. >> i would agree. if they're doing the censoring that's not what these rules would do. david: how do you know what they would lead to? once you set up to something like this, it could go into censorship. >> we had versions of these rules that gave rise to the internet and rise to all the competition on the internet and that kept the pipes going into our house separate from the content going over those pipes. i don't want the fcc -- david: we had the internet for decades and decades. that's the point, peter. hold on a second. the

internet is a precious source of information for millions, billions of people around the world, if you begin to have federal regulators coming in there, at the very least, wouldn't it at least slow it up? >> again, i guess the first question i would ask, what problem exists that this regulation would be, would resolve? david: hold a second. answer the question. would a federal regulator slow up the internet? >> oh, it would slow up innovation because you'd have to apply for approval of new prices and new technology and things like that. and certainly under traditional telephony, there were innovations that were delayed and slowed. david: craig, i saw you shaking your head no. but i ask you what organization, what bureaucracy has ever made a business that was supposed to be regulating more efficient and more quick and cheaper for the consumers. >> i think what consumers are concerned about that their cable

bills are going up. david: craig, you're not answering the question. please answer the question. what bureaucracy in the united states has ever made a business more efficient and cheaper? >> i think plenty have done things -- david: tell me one. tell me one, craig. >> i think the fcc, at its best, the federal trade commission has stuck up for consumers. david: hold a second. they have made businesses operate more efficiently? peter do you agree or disagree? >> there's very little evidence that regulation ever helps consumers. it tends to help firms restrict entry. david: again, craig you're laughing, but no clear example. >> that's not the way the internet works. it's because of the even playing fields something like the regulations the president is proposing it's that playing field that made these great things to happen. a company like google to compete -- david: why do we need the fcc in there.

>> they're just to guard and protect at a basic level so the gatekeepers can't -- david: you know nothing about bureaucrats. when they get involved in an institution, do they sit back and guard or start manipulating -- >> based on recent experience, they sit back and do a lot of things that are very muddled that's why the president stepping in is so helpful -- david: but even -- even the president's choice for the head of the fcc says this is a bad idea. >> well, he's backing away from that already. but 4 million people have commented on the fcc99 percent of them saying we don't like the fcc's plan. we want to you protect the free and open internet. 80 percent of conservatives surveyed are worried about these big companies. david: i think most americans are worried about government interference with the internet to do more taxation on the

internet to get involved in content in the internet, that is a bigger concern than the internet being left alone unregulated by the fcc as a utility. >> we'll have rules. who will they benefit? no one wants the government in the content business. that would be a terrible thing. when it comes to that pipe coming into your house, there's a good reason to have rules to make sure the companies providing that pipe cannot interfere with that -- david: i'm surprised you're called free press because you're going in the opposite direction. gentlemen, we have to leave it at that. appreciate you coming in. now, if you're fired up about what the obamacare architect said about voters, wait until you hear what he said to us.

david: or what's the deal, david. neil may not be here, but a lot of you want to know what's the deal of the architect of

obamacare. mr. jonathan gruber calling american voters stupid. >> the lack of transparency is a huge political advantage, and basically, the stupidity of the american voter or whatever, basically that was really, really critical to getting this thing to pass. david: he didn't end there. this new movie emerging from last year. take a look. >> for people extending health insurance plans they will no longer get -- tax on the insurance companies -- that's pretty much the same thing. why does it matter? you'll see. the americans are too stupid to understand the difference. and if that's not enough, yet another from 2012. >> we just tax the insurance companies. they pass on higher prices. that -- it's a clever basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the american voter.

david: now, gruber says he regrets these remarks off the cuff. this isn't a surprise to us. neil took on gruber about the health care law not doing what it was sold to do. take a listen to his response. >> if we have 30 million in the end who are uninsured, was it worth it? >> absolutely. if you cover half the american -- neil: i thought we would cover everyone? >> no one ever claimed that. neil: so everyone will be protected in this country? now, you're telling me that they won't be. >> the key thing, neil, you can be protected by the fact that when you lose your insurance coverage -- david: neil saw it coming. a fresh fox news poll showing 55 percent of americans think obamacare was misrepresented when it was passed, and you're letting us know on twitter and facebook as well. jeff: sad to see this is how twisted politics

have become. deceit to the highest degree for political gain. martha, the subscription he describes should be criminal. another writes: he regrets the exposure not the comments. they were said with a toxic mixture of glee and condescension. cm writes: you don't have to count on voter stupidity when congress won't even read the damn thing before passing it. and sought says: the world is laughing at the u.s. they should be. this guy should be jailed for criminal intent and fraud. jeff: it is a manifestation of us versus them mentality. it's a fundamental disrespect for fellow americans. divided we fall. big wolf: not surprising people in the government are lying to the people. instead of calling it a tax, let's call it a mandate. mike says: pass it to find out what's in it. nancy's famous line has new meaning. ram tweets: his words

will echo in the next elections that they rammed this through are out of office. maryland writes, after what has been revealed, obamacare should be thrown out, and all democrats that voted for it should be thrown out too. man, oh, man. keep giving us your freebd. go to facebook.com/teamcavuto. let's us know. the g.o.p. gets another senate seat. republican dan sullivan officially announced as alaska's new senator elect. louisiana's senator mary landrieu is next the list. you won't believe what democrats are doing now to save her seat. find out coming up next

>> i'm maria bartiromo with a new republican congress ready to make its mark. some of the biggest name in money management will be here tomorrow. opening bell 9:00 a.m. eastern. fox business network.

>> i want to come to the floor today to ask senator corn an from texas, particularly, and senator mcconnell, and senator reid, and others, if they would join me in moving forward on the keystone xl pipeline. david: timing is everything. senate democrats want to vote on keystone, but not to help jobs. but to help mary landrieu keep her job. liz, shocking. politics are affecting the keystone pipeline. >> who knew. never mind the president said we won't build the keystone because all these reports say it won't be effective. this is a naked power grab. not about helping american jobs. this thing is out there for five years. not even helping americans lower the cost of gas prices. even if this succeeds. here's what mitch mcconnell is doing he's saying to bill cassidy,

mary's opponent, you will have a seat on the energy committee, and we will get keystone built anyway making louisiana voters happy. >> this is quite the end run. (?) they would get a majority seat, a g.o.p. majority seat not a democratic one. david: as long as the people end up with a pipeline, is it worth it? >> just get it done. at this point. i think she's fighting for her job. whether or not it will help in her favor, we'll see. at the end of the day, republicans have been asking this for a while. democrats are supporting it. more and more support is behind it. let's get it done. get jobs created and work towards energy independence for america. david: my feeling is the opinion of the american people is so unity against democratic policies right now that even if she votes for it even if we get the keystone because of her vote for it, she might still lose the runoff. >> i think so too. everyone can see through this. i agree with veronica, i

don't care how we get it done. just get it done. >> you should care. >> at the end of the day, they have a legacy, this is what it's about for this congress. they have two years to do something. if they do nothing, we'll go right back and flip their vote. david: why should we care? >> listen -- >> queshewe should care about how they're doing to get mary landrieu a guaranteed seat at the table. hang on let me finish. forgive me. they're trying to use the keystone pipeline to preserve their power. that should be a concern to all american voters no matter their side of the aisle. david: isn't that what president obama was doing. >> did it help her? of course, it didn't help her. that's the irony they undercut mary anyway. we should care if politicians are using things that would help the american people in order to keep their

power. that is really wrong, what they're doing here. david: hold on a second. occasionally the american electoral system needs a bloodletting like we had in november and last week. it strengthens us out. cynicism has creeped so much in our system that maybe the bloodletting will allow us to clean it up a little bit. >> maybe it will allow it. i think at the end of the day, the jobs that can be created from this are what people need to focus on. american people will see through the transparent effort of what she's trying to do. >> i don't think the cynicism is gone. everyone is watching this g.o.p. congress right now. watching it intently. if they don't do anything, they're out. david: hopefully we'll get better now. if you're happy that prices at the pump is dropping, liz macdonald with a warning for you that you can't miss. that's coming up. the firm that predicted the 1929 crash, the great depression now

saying 1929 could happen again in 2015. the man whose family was behind the original prediction coming next sheila! you see this ball control?

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you're the rock, at 60. silent night not so silent? elk bellow sleep number's even got an adjustment for that. give the gift of amazing sleep, only at a sleep number store. where you'll find our lowest price ever on the c4 queen mattress -just $1499.98. ends sunday. know better sleep with sleep number. david: get ready for a huge stock drop. the firm that saw the 1929 crash coming said this rally could be coming to an end. random levy predicted the great depression back then and his grandson david is seeing a possible recession now. so, david, what is the forecast? >> well, i think for the first time since world war ii, we could see problems in the rest of the world get bad enough to drag the us down. david: so because europe and there are certain countries in europe already in a recession, if not a depression for some of those countries, and japan kind of getting weaker along the

line, that could drag us down. >> my bigger concern is certainly europe, but also the emerging market sector. one thing that has started to occur to people in wall street research and various places is that these emerging market countries that are taking more of global market shares every year and growing rapidly. suddenly can't do that. their exports aren't growing. they're continuing to build capacity that's not earning its keep. david: how does it boil into our economy? couldn't we do well without those emerging markets? >> there's three ways i'm concerned. they will drag europe down which has huge banking exposure and export exposure there. we have the rest of the world breaking down around us. we're going to see that hit our exports. we export a bigger share of our economy than ever before. our stock market has more foreign exposure than ever before. and go to stock market

is larger in proportion to household income than at any time in history except for the last couple quarters of '99 and 2000. david: our strong dollar plays in here. didn't we just see our exports fall as a result of our stronger dollar. >> it's falling, i think, it might be the dollar, but i think a bigger contributor probably the softness that is developing overseas. david: a stronger dollar makes our goods more expensive for countries that can afford to buy them. >> absolutely. the one thing that i don't want to lose in all this, the us is continuing to make more progress than the rest of the world at getting back to a healthy place. david: there have been times when our economy has done well perhaps because of the weakness, and i think of the period after world war ii when -- when as europe was rebuilding after the devastation of world war ii, our economy was able to develop much stronger in comparison to how

they were doing. >> i think there clearly is a possible example. we're in a different situation. our economy was dominant in the world then relative to the european economy. of course, it was in shambles. the one thing i would emphasize, while this is a tricky time and it's not easy to make a solid long-term bet on the stock market, i do feel very confident that us markets will outperform foreign markets. david: if they're in a depression, that ain't saying much. very quickly. fifteen seconds. timing is everything. when do you see our markets being directly affected in oy down way by what happens overseas. >> it depends how fast problems develop overseas. we could see signs as early before the end of the year. more likely, it will of next year for problems to develop. there's still hope that things could be done to

avoid this. 65 percent. not 100 percent. david: always hope. thank you very much for coming in. in our biz blitz, how the money you're saving from a gas price plunge could get snowed out. how taylor swift shook up the entire music industry in one swift move

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. >> liz mcdonald, reporting a brutal winter could cost you more. it doesn't balance out. >> wall street analysts, we've been in touch with them. economic forecasters are as reliable as weather forecasters. when you saw what the polar vortex did last year. $100 billion in terms of spending, the first quarter of gdp took a negative 2.9%.

deutsche bank is saying 40 intaeld put back into u.s. pockets because of lower gas prices, that could be wiped out by the polar vortex. >> veronica, 2.5% drop in the gdp first quarter was more than 40 billion dollars, a lot more. >> a lot more. weather aside going into next year, people still haven't seen wage growth. if they're saving money on gas prices, who knows if they're going to be spending that money. they could be holding that money to save up or pay down overdue bills. we'll see what happens. >> tracy, a lot of us thought if they're snowed in, you sit at home and buy things on amazon. that didn't work out the first quarter. >> not an apples to apples comparison. more people still, believe it or not, go to brick and mortar. more people get out and stop, you stop for something to eat, get gas in the car. >> you go to the movies. >> you are doing more than if you sit home and click away. not to mention, heating and gas

bills are higher if it is that much colder. i know mine was last year because of the vortex. >> i like shopping online because i'm totally incompetent with gift wrapping. [ laughter ] >> the taylor swift streaming wars, spotify ceo calling the pop star saying she missed out on $6 million payout by take album off of the streaming service. would she have sold as many copies if she didn't. spotify, she made it sound as if spotify didn't give royalty. they've given out $2 billion in royalty. >> the ceo saying he could have walked away with 6 million had she hung on. you know how i heard her most recent annoying song shake it off ospotify because my kids listen to it all the time. >> are you saying she's spoiled? >> a lot spoiled. i don't think she could have

sold as many albums. >> the average artist needs that revenue. otherwise, they're not paid. they're saying there's a changing industry landscape for the economics of music industry, we're seeing youtube launched a pay subscription channel, we're going to see more of that to give artists more money. >> fighting against progress, fighting against the inevitable? >> yeah. a lot of teenagers love spot fight. you are right about the youtube thing. magazines try to ward it off with paid subscriptions. look what that got them? taylor swift needs to be open to all venues in order to sell. >> she's not separate from. this because she is almighty queen taylor swift. >> you don't like her. >> at all. you're not going to hear her next new song, you're not going to walk into a sam goody. i don't know if they exist. the only way you hear the next new song is free streaming

something. and if you're not out, there i don't care how almighty you are, you're not getting it. >> we know how tracy feels. keep the tweets and e-mails coming in. appreciate you tuning in tonight. see you tomorrow. matt: is the new republican majority in congress going to be worth a tinker's dam, when it comes to limiting the size and scope of government? the most libertarian member of the house of representatives, justin amash to find out. do the geniuses who find obamacare think you are stupid? they do. the brand-new enemy of freedom. the truth about marijuana studies and what you're not hearing about ferguson. the world looks different when you take off the political goggles, don't it? welcome to "the independents." . matt: good evening. i'm your host matt welch of "reason" magazine, sitting in the big chair for