ten people for under 40 bucks. >> tomorrow. signed, sealed and executive action delivered. millions of illegals can now apply to become legal. that will send more americans to unemployment lines and send costs through the roof. hi, everyone, i'm brenda buttner. this is "bulls and bears." here they have, we are terry, tracy, jonas and jessica. welcome to everybody. tracy, what is this going to do to jobs? >> brenda, what jobs? we have 2.9 million american that is have been unemployed for at least 27 weeks. these are legal americans. throw in five million illegals that he's issuing worker permits

to and where are they going to go? they are fighting for the same pool. once they get social security numbers, our legal americans who have been here, trying to get jobs will be on the unemployment line yet again or longer. the system can't afford this right now. >> john, you are not worried about the labor market? >> no, i'm not. very rarely do i disagree with tracy. i have to wonder, when did americans become such wimps and worry about competition? when you are the vice president of a community bank and see an illegal picking fruit and all of a sudden he gets a work permit and he barely speaks english, if you are worried about him taking your job, you have more to worry about. they had very little, to do with the job market once you gave 3 million illegals amnesty. i don't see it happening now. they are lower income jobs.

i don't see a negative as far as jobs are concerns. most of them have the jobs, by the way. >> when you add millions more people to the labor force, what happens to wages? >> i tell you what, i think the wages are going to have to be market competitive. they could go up or could go down. i'll come back to that in a second, brenda. i want to build on what tracy was saying. i used to be in john's camp. i used to agree 100%, then i did some digging. in the last 14 year, net, we added 6 million jobs. 5.7 to 5.8 million of those jobs have gone to immigrants, legal and illegal. in fact, during that time period, native foreign americans have lost jobs. now, back to your point, brenda, say none of the immigrants have the jobs, in john's scenario, the person outside picking

fruit. he would then have to raise his wage in order to attract an american. that would be bad for the employer, but good for the worker. if there's no immigrants, the wages have to go up to attract people. as it stands now, immigrants cost jobs. i have not said that before. >> okay. jonas, how do you weigh in on this? >> well, if we have to have health coverage on 10 million more americans, it would cause a lot. the right to earn more by having a work permit. i think that puts pressure on wages at the level above the illegal worker. however, that's good. i mean, otherwise, being in a union is good. unions lift wages. that's bad for employers. it's not good for the worker, but good for the employer and

the economy, to a point. i think this -- it will raise wages for some. it will lower them for others and create job opportunities because they are an illegal. it will create more competition at other levels of jobs. >> tracy, if they raise their wages, it hurts the employer and gets passed on to us, doesn't it? >> absolutely. you are going to have a flood of illegals coming in. this all seems too good to be true. the one thing i can say is obamacare. everyone tested and surveyed and thought they knew what it was going to cost before it was passed and we still don't have a clue. we don't have any idea what it is going to do for the system if you make them part of the system, legal, you are here to stay. i think it's going to cripple the system if we don't think it through. >> jessica, do you agree with that? >> no, not at all. in fact, it's a red letter day.

i agree 100% with john on this. these folks, as jonas mentioned are already working, for the most part. they are here. they are just undocumented. one of the positives that comes out of it is they get to start paying taxes. now, they are not only going to be documented, they will pay into the system, they will start paying into social security and they will also help in a way, for us to track down folks hiring illegal immigrants for the crackdown everyone wants going on. >> i think the number is totally skewed, the amount of tax money we are going to collect. they are all going to qualify for earned income tax credit. we are going to pay more money. we are not going to make money like everyone thinks we are. we are going to pay for them, at the end of the day. >> gary b., this level of worker who has always been said to take the jobs americans don't want.

now that they don't have to worry about deportation, can't they go to the next level and apply for jobs there? doesn't that hurt the job market? >> that's what we have seen. people come here longer and longer know they can stay here without fear of deportation. they start learning the language and invest into society. yes, they work their way up the ladder. that's how immigrants started when they came in the early 1900s to ellis island. they worked up the ladder. that was good then. now we are talking jobs and the effect on the average american. it has to. as it has people come in, you can say if it's legal or not legal what obama is doing. they will affect the job market and wages. it has to. >> john, this gives you a chance to disagree with gary b., which rarely happens. >> i agree, there's going to be pressure on wages. i think most of these people already have jobs.

two things tracy said are taxes are not going to increase. they are lower income. we are not going to see that. after 1986, ronald reagan passed, we saw an influx of illegals coming into the country. we have a small pie of jobs, then it's zero gain. if an immigrant gets a job, an american has to lose a job. we have a certain amount of jobs. this is like the turn of the century, irish need not apply, immigrants need not apply. we don't have a set number of jobs. a big part of growing the economy is immigration, which america has been built on. >> that's a great point that john makes. that was the mid-'80s. our economy now is not like that. >> to go on to that point, japan doesn't have immigration. they have huge problems because of it. they don't let foreigners move

through. they have all kind of problems in the economy. on the flip side, you have to break eggs to make an omelet. i would be hit directly by that. i couldn't make as much as an consultant. i earn mine. it's similar to people in line. they are going to get pressure for awhile. there's no denying it. wages are going to go up for certain employers that like paying people. not paying the taxes. the tax revenue going up, prices go up because someone is paying the taxes. it's not gravy for everybody. this country is built on it. >> thanks, guys. if you are against the president, you are selfish. why one democrats comments about americans has neil's gang furious. that's at the bottom of the hour. up here, the obamacare architect may have gotten a good chuckle for calling us stupid. will taxpayers have the last laugh?

[ male announcer ] some come here to build something smarter. ♪ some come here to build something stronger. others come to build something faster...

something safer... something greener. something the whole world can share. people come to boeing to do many different things. but it's always about the very thing we do best. ♪

headlines log on to foxnews.com. >> well, calling americans stupid got a good laugh, but obama architect jonathan gruber is also laughing all the way to the bank. 6 million bucks worth of laughs. most of it paid by you, the taxpayer. now, some states are firing him

as a paid consultant for obamacare. john, he says don't stop there. >> that's right. he was one of the ones that fired him. look, this was built on fraud. they got taxpayer money because of the fraud. i think he needs to give it all back or be forced to give it back. he won't give it back willingly. i don't know where the argument came in. we have executive order on immigration. we like dead terrorists, so we don't say anything about it despite the fact it violates international law. with gruber, he admitted to this. look, i admit to the fraud, but it was for the greater good. there has to be cause and effect in this. you cannot run this like you are an emperor or above everybody else because we are too stupid to figure things out for ourselves. i think he needs to give our money back. >> gary b., we may hate the fact he called us stupid, but he did what he was asked to do. why give up the money? >> john makes a good point.

along those points, obama would have to give back his $400,000 a year. i don't think we are going to get that. look, i think gruber is arrogant. i think he is smug. he probably did perpetuate fraud. he had a contract. he was asked to do x, he did x. i think it's horrible. it's going to happen a lot. it happens in corporate america. it happens to government. i don't like it, but he did what he was asked to do. he got paid. now, i think we should all move on. >> tracy, what do you say about that? you want that money back? >> yeah. how dare you think that you can do this all behind closed doors, collect your money and run off to an exotic island. you are duping the american people. i get it happens in corporate america. that's private. this is public. it's our tax dollars. it shouldn't be a joke.

>> you think he should get a bonus. >> look, i have to tell you, having a seat next to consultants talking about their clients, this is tame. look, i don't like that government hired them, i don't want the private sector doing it so i don't want the nih or whoever doing it. if your job is to stuff a health care thing through the system, essentially, didn't he do that? don't you gate bonus for that? it's not like he failed because he screwed up. people didn't like it. that was the job. that's what they hired him for. only in communist russia are you going to take away the money. it's not theft. it's ripping off the client. it's a game, is what i'm saying. >> it is amazing how much amnesia he caused the democrats. jessica, you say he earned the salary, we can't just take it away. >> yeah, he may be a jerk, but i

agree with jonas in this. this is a professor from m.i.t., this is what he does. he is a management consultant. you have the right to fire him but he's been paid. he got paid to do the job he did. i'm with jonas on this one, for sure. that's the bottom line, the facts. >> total hypocrisy. the low 1% the liberals hate so much. they created that. he now sits atop everyone else and looks down his nose at the rest of us. >> in general, they are trying to make money. that's the point of consulting and things like that. >> let john go ahead. also, he's got so many republicans mad, as does the president. the house republicans are suing the president for obamacare. >> yeah, which i'm glad they are suing him instead of doing

something crazy, like impeach. try to do this in corporate america, mislead your investors. put in so much opaqueness that you mislead the investors and see what happens to you. your shareholders and the fcc are not going to sit around saying he got his money, he earned it. they are going to come after him. why is public different. >> good point. >> look, i understand and agree with the moral issues. i'm going back to more the contractural issues. a lot of bad things are done in corporate america and government every day. the guy was hired to do a job. he did the job. we don't like the job. we don't like how he talked about the job, but he did it. i guess, in that case, more power to him. >> tracy, last word. >> for that matter, anthony from countrywide should have his job. they are crooks. crooks should be treated as

crooks. >> i wasn't for the finance money either. you can't be for either. clawing back people's pay is not american. it's not the way it is. >> thanks, guys. cashing in, just over an hour from now, eric what do you have coming up? >> the president rewriting our immigration law. did he open the flood gates for more illegals to come to america? plus, the mainstream media doing a disservice to the people. why networks are ignoring grubergate and obamacare. that and more. see you at 11:30. >> thanks, we'll be watching. as people are digging out from a history-making blizzard, the white house digging in on its blitz on global warming. what?

how can power consumption in china, impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of r mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. (receptionist) gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money? time and money. awesome. awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! (all) awesome! i love logistics.

the snow job after the snowstorm. cities shovel out, they are shoveling the blame on global warming. they are about to get help from the white house. it just launched a task force to help cities prepare for global warming and blenlged $3 billion to help other nations fight it. gary b. says enough already, right? >> unbelievable, brenda. you notice by the way how it's now climate change, not a global warming? they have rebranded it because

there hasn't been global warming for 18 years or so. second of all, it's interesting that they all want this money, billions and billions of dollars spent for the global climate lobby. no one know what is the solution is except move from cheap energy to expensive energy for the al gore's of the world. i hope we move on and keep the money here. >> jessica, what do you think? >> well, first of all, it is global warming. we just had the hottest october on record. the storms we are having in places like buffalo are a direct result of the fact that the ozone has been depleted, we have the bizarre weather factors going on and the worst offenders that create the problems we are seeing that affect our citizenry and cities and also our economy is because of countries like china and other undeveloped nations continuously polluting in atrocious ways into the

atmosphere. by helping them, we help ourselves. 3 billi$3 billion is less than billion on hurricane sandy. >> the dispute is not settled. we don't know if it's global warming or not. what do you think about the money they are throwing at them, our money. >> gary is right. until you have conclusive evidence that mother nature is screwed up and we are going to blame it on climate change and global warming, i say the money stays still. no one, there's not enough evidence, yet, to point to that other than the fact we have had crazy weather. >> jonas? >> i'm for keeping the money here for different reasons. i'm six feet above. right here is the epicenter of global warming. look, i'm for patching the holes in the raft, but at the end of the day, the money well spent would be fighting the change that the bad. imagine aliens came down and

changed the climate. paint trees white and deflect the heat back. it's the direction we have to go. this is going to get us nowhere. there will never be a global consensus. >> i want to get john in here quickly. >> tree-huggers drive me nuts. i am -- they want to make a ton of money. they don't offer solutions. a grid with expandable energy. there's ways to do it. what they are doing is propostrouse. >> we have to go. thanks guys. thanks to jessica for joining us. lots of folks complaining about the cost of plowing away the snow. someone here says you can make a lot of green from all the white stuff.

♪ the mercedes-benz winter event is back, with the perfect vehicle that's just right for you, no matter which list you're on. [ho, ho, ho, ho] no matter which list you're on. lease the 2014 cla250 for $329 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer.

predictions, jonas, take it away. >> when i think of shoveling that kind of snow, i reach for icy hot. >> you are still the youngest one. gary b. bull or bear. >> bear. >> john, your prediction. >> china and europe benefit hall burr ton 20% on the year. >> jonas? >> bear. >> gary b., your prediction. >> tracy and i went to lehigh and they played la fayette for the 150th time this weekend.

intel up 100,000% by 2016. >> you both went to lehigh? both you smartties? it must quite the school. >> go lehigh. neil is next. instead of a free pass for millions, it's anything but free. welcome, good to have you on kne i'm neil cavuto. >> i'm excited about the courage of this president. i look forward to america finally understanding the gift that you have given. let us not be a selfish nation, let us be a generous nation. >> i think we are a pretty generous nation. think about what she said. you are selfish if you are not pumped up for what the president