at this level? heldy or not? >> they're hot. i think they're high, but, i do not look for 2015 to be a good year but over a long period of time, which a man like mr. gasparino has, it will be great. >> all right. we shall see. searching for leaders to unite us to succeed. not divide us to fail. take polly williams for example. spent her last days bringing people of all stripes together to fight for underprivileged kids. helping give parents the freedom to chooses schools that would help their kids succeed, not the ones the government forced on them. in the face of ferguson violence, do we need more leaders like polly williams today? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. welcome to "cashin' in"."." my panel is with me. david, spent a week and a half in ferguson. just arrived from ferguson. was there anybody there spreading a message like we heard from polly williams?

>> no, there wasn't, david. that's a big problem. in august i actually talked to some pastors who wanted to spread a similar message of peace, but when i asked them about education in the community, and education, as you know, leads to jobs. your ability to do the job, to get a job. they weren't talking much about that. unfortunately, there wasn't a polly williams down there, and that is a tragic, tragic circumstance in that city right now. >> but, rich, i get the impression that the media focuses more on the dividers than on the uniters. i'm sure there be other polly williams in the country, although she was unique. >> well, that's the nature of our media world today. the more outrageous you are the more twitter followers you have and things like that. look, what ferguson needs most is jobs. i'm so glad david mentioned that and to have jobs you need employers and what do employs want? they want people who will show up to work on time, who can read and write and have the capacity to learn. the public school system in poor

areas lying ferguson is failing to produce people like that, and so we need creative alternative solutions, such as those brought by polly williams. >> and, john, the creativity involved is so simple, in way. it may be difficult to achieve with unions against it and so forth, but you just allow individual parents and students the dignity to make their own choices. >> well, i think anyone who's enhancing individual liberties should be cheered and obviously polly williams is among those. i also think politicians make a mistake when they say education is the path to prosperity. the reality is that hard work is how we prosper and teachers can't teach us how to work hard and how to be entrepreneurs or thrive in the workplace. i almost think we set expectations incorrectly saying if you go toe school you're going to succeed. that's not necessarily true. >> but, steve, prosperity is one thing. money is not the secret to the success of good education. we have spent billions of dollars, in fact, since 1980, the department of education, the

federal department of education, created in 1980 has spent $1.4 trillion. we haven't gotten the bang for that buck that we need. >> no, david. it's not a matter of money, and numerous survavs show it here and around the world. the key is schools that work and that means accountability to parents and what polly williams stood for. in this society more than ever before, the real wealth of a society is the human mind and kids at a young age have to learn to read, how to write, learn discipline, not to mention part-time jobs learning basic things to become valuable to employers, and so that's where the schools are failing and she understood, give parents a choice. make the schools accountable and by golly, you're going to see really rapid rises of people who start with very little in life. >> sabrina, unfortunately, right now in missouri, the people who are more indoctrinated, in the league, one state senator suggesting they change the curriculum to include lessons on how to protest.

>> this is just so -- so insidious. of course, the people to blame mere are the democratic party and teachers union. they are the ones standing in the way in real educational freedom. the fact is that our government runs schools, literally some of the most insidious parts of our progressive government bloat. the reality is, steve has said, rich said and i disagree a lot with jon here, we want to give people kuwait opportunity to access. something we don't have. if we want to get to the root cause of poverty we have to expand educational freedom opposites. >> go ahead, john, tossed to you. >> if you show me kids who are interested and parents who care i will show you a good school. no doubt, teachers unions deserve blame, but i think far more blame should be focused on kids who show up to school unprepared and don't care and parents who don't make them to do that. vouchers are great, but they will not solve that problem. i don't think. >> david? >> so much i could throw in and

hit it in bullet points, david. yes, you need options and choice. this isn't just about vouchers. on top of that, the kid need to have a family, a family structure. whether a blended family, mother-father. who was michael brown before he got into that incident jt it wasn't black or white. that's the accident of his birth, but who was he before he got into that incident where he decided to fight with a cop? on the education front, there's a simple example. i saw it in ferguson. one gentleman walked by my camera position. big sign above his head. he spelled the word liar, l-i-e-rmplt. a buy sign. something he took the time to write out but actually couldn't write a simple word correctly. so all of these are elements and, yes, they're ideas we need to push forward, whether the money in the backpack attached to the kid, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. save 5%, 10% next time 12%. do everything and combine it and

localize it. >> rich, i see you nodding your head yes. go ahead? >> i love that you don't let perfect be the enemy of good is exactly the approach here. we're not going to get from ferguson to some ivy league college prep school level of public ed kags overnight or maybe ever, but we have to have creative solutions. i agreed 90% of the time, john is wrong on this. john what you're expressing is your disappointment in the public school system in ferguson. that does not impugn education. we need to educate, creative alternatives, the kind polly williams brought. >> sabrina, not too big a leap. there is a connection, is there not, between what went on in ferguson and what polly williams said needs to be done to prevent what happened in ferguson? >> absolutely. as david and others said, two things to deal with. actual family units that care and provide support for children, and then also we have to have opportunity for them to

get education, and so they can have an equal chance at life. right? these, this is not rocket science. we just have bad policies in place in many instances. one of the things, we think people are all going to be motivated to make changes based on an ethical or moral argument. the reality is we're not. people are motivated by, costs. saving taxpayers dollars. that gets people to support educational freedom and what we should be talking about. >> vouchers bring together families in support of their children in a way that public education generally doesn't. public education, send your kids away. the government takes care of it. with vouchers, the families very much involved in what happens to the kid. >> yes. it takes a handful of families and mothers and dads to be an influence on other parents to say, gee, maybe we can do better. so it's not passivity. it brings ak activity. you respond to the environment you're in, and kids, even if they come from a dysfunctional home go to a school where they are there most of the day and summer, it's a refuge.

they learn in spite of the background of the homefront. this is win-win all 5ir7bd with polly williams, she understood. >> david, not to, come full circle. not a big leap to talk about polly williams what she was doing and talk about what's happening in ferguson? >> it's ash salute not a big leap, as a matter of fact, an important leap we take. look at choice. the choice movement in america. vouchers, money in the backpack, other programs, they help the poor children. the people who are rich that have the money can afford the prep schools, and one other example, right by the target parking lot where all the satellite trucks are, go down lucas and there is a beautiful prep school. imagine if a kid in ferguson had the money to take and go to that prep school because they have the background and they had the skill? what that would mean? that's one person who would have a bright future. >> well, it costses 12ds,000 per student average in america to educate a student. if you gave the parents that money, allowed them to take it to the prep schools, i'm sure

the kids would be much better off. david, thank you. your voice, still a little hoarse from ferguson. appreciate the effort to get here. >> tear gas. >> that, too. government employees supposed to be working for you. instead working for unions. wait until you hear how much that's costing you.

new hour of news. now back to "forbes on fox." consider this as you see a big chunk of your hard earned paycheck going for taxes. you're paying for federal employees to work for their unions instead of working for you. it's happening at federal agencies throughout the government and costing u.s. taxpayers more than $150 million a year. sabrina, should we be footing the bill for this? >> you know, absolutely not. this is truly insane. david, look, this is a perfect example how the media often portrays unions as this small counter weight to big business. reality, it's far from the

truth. they have tremendous muscle. now we're learning in 2012 we spent nearly $160 million in taxpayer dollars and almost 2.5 million hours working for labor unions while technically on the job. look at the plight of the american taxpayer more. >> and this is not an insignificant consent amount of time. 2.5 million hours. work hours, spent on union activity by federal workers. is that right? >> well, it might be right, but these contracts were signed off dating back to both bushes and reagan, but what's in the report, this is not union activity in the realm of recruitment or organizing. this has to do with grievances, about work conditions and other things like that and negotiations. so if congress doesn't like that, then they've got to come up with a better system and account system, but this official time is what it's all about. >> steve, i don't care what congress cares about. i care what the taxpayers care

about and i care about my tax dollars going for this union activity. >> it shouldn't happen, and they say only $160 million out of a multi-trillion budget. like credit charges, they add up and you get a huge tax bill from washington, d.c. it's not just the time they spend. that union activity slows down really in the real world productivity and ends up costing the taxpayer more as they focus more on their benefits than on serving we, the people. >> mike, 2.5 million hours. this just shows how big this government has got. >> i think that's the main point from this, david. if these workers have that much time to spend, isn't government way too big in terms of the number of people working there? wouldn't you they if you really needed all of these people, that they'd have to actually be doing their jobs? >> bill? >> well, too conserve stiv probably no greater devil than a unionized government worker, but give the devil his due. after all, the bosses could be talking about -- >> by the way, even fdr was

against certain union organizers in the public sector. >> you're right, but the bosses, a scott walker, or a corporate executive, get paid time to engage in their union busting. maybe the union should be given paid time to do its unionizing especially if in the contract. >> rich, from my perspective, too much money and time for the union organizing of federal workers. >> federal workers are paid in terms of salary and benefits 30% more than the average private sector worker. we learn right off the bat 9% less productive because they're spending time on these activities. glad you cited fdr. he wrote in 1937, government employees should realize the process of collective bargain kg not be transplanted into public service because you're pitting the employee not against the employer but against taxpayers. he understood that and was right. >> sabrina, it's not against management. it's against us.

that they are now negotiating. >> that's right. that's right. and we're so's often concerned about workers not realizing that many of us are also working very hard, we're working hard to pay the bills every month and pay our taxes, and we don't want -- that's why sort of the opinion on labor unions have dropped precipitously in recent years. it's not just federal employees. we were just talking about public schools. many of these teachers are paid to are your representatives, union reps on the job. get election day off to help with electioneering. there's a lot that's wrong with this i think people can pick up on. >> bruce, do you think fdr, the liberal icon fdr was too conservative? >> no. but i think that i don't think that fdr had it envisioned for people not union to be negotiating the raises with bosses during holiday weekends like this. i mean, what you've -- do it on company time. if they can change it, if -- >> do you think fdr ever envisioned things getting as out of control as they are now with unionization of the federal workers?

>> i don't think so. but maybe 23 he would have been re-elected to couple more terms maybe we would have had all ofs this solved. >> steve, you're a historian and know the intentions. the fact, as mike said, it's gotten out of control. >> the unions have replaced the old political bosses in terms of wielding political power. and the unions are negotiating in effect with themselves. negotiating with the people they helped to hire. so it's not like the private sector where you have two interests and try to achieve a bargain. this is, i want re-elected and have to appease these people. how do i apeas them? use taxpayers money. >> only thing that counts. i want re-elected. meanwhile, keeping undocumented kids from flooding across our borders, and into our schools. the president says his executive plan will help do just that. so why is one government agency getting ready for another surge?

get ready for more undocumented children showing up at public schools. that's the warning from the department of education in new york city, but didn't the president promise executive action would be fewer, not more, illegals crossing or border? steve, another broken promise ending up costing taxpayers money. >> right. like you can keep your doctor and keep the health insurance policy you want. it's going to be an incentive for more. reform bill in 1976, 3 million illegals now today we have 11 million or 12 million. another incentive to cross the border. why not?

when every few years you get a general amnesty. >> incentives matter? >> they do. this is another example where we need to go back and pass the bipartisan senate bill that would give us more border security, and also require i think it's lost on people that it would require the pass of citizenship include paying back taxes to pay for some of this. >> if you can get it. but, mike, the point is, not just new york, by the way. these kids are sent all over the country. massachusetts, the midwest, et cetera. it costs a lot of money. these school districts have to begin to prepare budgets for all these extra schoolchildren, many of whom don't speak english. >> it's also going to cost all taxpayers money, david, because given the income levels of these immigrants, from the earned income tax credits, they're actually getting a necessary check from the government as opposed to paying taxes. so the cost is going to go up, because of the tax code itself. >> right. >> and, jon, we mentioned before, earlier segment, how

much it costs to educate kids. it's much more in new york because of the cost of bilingual education. >> i'd say first thing rich countries tend to attract immigrants. that's a good thing. if we're going to talk about incentives, open up the borders and legalize all work. there's a reason that these kids are crossing, because this is where their parents are. if we allowed free crossing of workers to come in and out of the country, they wouldn't have the incentive to bring their kids and grandmothers and everything. the problem is the law that presumes ke we can keep people out of the country that aunt a better opportunity. >> i don't think that's going to happen. for the moment somebody has to pay for this, for what the president has done. he says it's not going to happen. i think we'll have to pay for t. i'd like to see an immigration reform making it egszer to come into the country legally. a lot harder to come in illegal. i'd like to see reform making it eggser to come in work with a guest worker program and a little harder to come in with your family who has costs.

>> the point. we don't want immigrants feeding off the welfare system. immigrants who are going to work. >> yes, and most immigrants come to this country to work. we do have a broken down system. bill is right on that, and illegal immigration, a huge source of wealth and prosperity in the country. we have a dysfunctional system. people come here have to go in the underground economy and the system itself, people who play by the rules get shafted. they have to hire numerous lawyers. papers get lost. so we punish those who try to play by the rules. >> last word from steve forbes. meanwhile, the holiday wish list fo d.c. that could save taxpayers a ton of cash and only on "cashin' in," just a couple minutes from now. first, right here, the stocks to pay for all of those gifts on your holiday shopping list, that's coming, next. @?

after black friday and ahead of cyber monday, stocks that cover all your holiday gifts and more, mike, industrial equipment rental company? >> united rental it's. like it. business booming buying back a lot of stock. >> bill, like it? >> a lot of growth but a caution. they live on borrowed money. like the u.s. treasury. >> oh, yeah. that's no good. valley national bancorp you like. why? >> this has great potential. 's get new management. >> mike, like it. >> no. something called penny stock weeklies hyping, meanwhile insiders are dumping stock.

>> tit for tat. coming right back. thank you for watching. keep it right here. the number one business block continues with eric bolling and "cashin' in." america giving thanks this holiday weekend, and juan williams says you should be thankful for -- wait for it -- obama care from big brother government. oh, boy. is he right or full of turkey? plus, a real-life "family guy" smackdown, taking on the mega star creator seth mcfarland for attacking america's oil industry. a must-see blockbuster on hollywood hip wok crazy and "cashin' in" wish list not for santa, but d.c. the one you our view crew is asking the president and congress this holiday season. "cashin' in" starts right now. hi, everyone. i'm eric bolling. welcome to "cashin' in." our crew this