of political theater, and that's too bad. thank you for being with us. neil: welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. al sharpton is his advisor on keeping people calm. eric holder is his attorney general. and an environmentalist collective wall against building keystone. i'm telling you, with the rest of us. wake up, folks. the president is making a hard charge to the left. and my friend steve forbes knows it. this is he pretty amazing. it's doubling down on this. he's maybe showing his true colors, but so much for the olive branch.

>> it's been true for six years. this shows. i mean, two years left. you could be more moderate because you're going out. he's showing his true colors. neil: why would he do it? they're historic enough, they don't have to worry about history. >> he wanted to be a president in the mold of ronald reagan, not in terms of ideology -- neil: but ronald reagan was pragmatic. >> reagan was a movement leader, but also a political leader. he knew that life does not go in a straight direction, that you have to make changes. make comprises. just don't lose your focus. you will eventually get big things done. with obama, it's my way or the highway. in his mind, obama thinks he's done it. he's done it on health care -- neil: a talked to a number of businessmen, those who were big backers of the president who said, i elected a slightly left

guy. that's what they describe him as. and i had no idea he was this left. why the surprise? or is it just the timing of the surprise? >> i think even those who are true believers, many true believers realize this thing is not working. it's not just that he lost the midterm elections, but the way he did the immigration thing, the way he's trying to hush up the irs scandal. all the executive decrees. the next two years will be tough. the only way you'll get something done is by overriding his veto or when you have to get an appropriations bill done, that will get it done. but i think it will be harry reid and the republicans negotiating it more than the white house. neil: isn't the president playing the divide and conquer game and hoping the mainstream media, forbes excluded, will par

rot the line that republicans are stopping him. i'm talking past the lame duck. it will be you wan up to the president to vote yea or nay. >> with the republicans in control of the senate, there will be bills on the president's desk. he will have to explain. you give these exemptions, why not make it legal to have reid do the individual mandate. redo this and that. neil: he won't redo squat. >> he'll veto it. that will be an issue in 2016. neil: two years of nothing? >> just hope we'll get through it. we will. we'll have a revival through the '80s. neil: i love your optimism. i share none of it, by the way. steve, thank you very much. best-selling author of the man behind the empire. to rub socialist salt in

the wound, jihad against jobs. now targeting overtime pay and making sure businesses pay out now. carolcarl's jr, the president has never run a business, can't keep piling on businesses. andy, he still does. he makes no bones about it. this is the next two years. what then? >> well, i tell you, the real problem with this president is just a lack of understanding of how business works. and this, what you're talking about with trying to turn our -- our restaurant managers into hourly employees is a perfect example. we competen compensate them with the salary and the bonus. president obama wants to turn them into hourly employees that get overtime. we'll make them from employees who are compensated for time well-spent to employees that are just compensated for time spent. that works in the

government, i guess. neil: how would it affect those workers then? what changes for them? >> well, these workers really get their entrepreneurial skills. they learn how to run businesses. they learn how businesses work. by being rewarded for what they do. it's not a socialist country. it's a capitalist country. if they're getting overtime then the performance of the restaurant really doesn't matter. what matters, how much time they spend in the restaurant. the way the government looks at things versus the way the private sector looks at thing. which is why we could use a president from the private sector such as mitt romney who you've been talking about. >> you were a big backer, a big supporter of his. i've been mentioning this poll that shows the only one leading hillary clinton, polls are fickle, that i know, but i find it telling that he's -- he was the most relied on republican on the stump, and egged a he got a

lot of people to the finish line. >> people know the country is in trouble. you can see it in the polling and the midterm elections. i think people perceive mitt as someone who will go out there and dedicate his life to solving the problems that big government solves. they don't want a third term barack obama, which is what you'd end up with hillary clinton. a big supporter of social programs like obamacare. and now has come out and said she doesn't think businesses create jobs. we need somebody who understands. we have a guy who said, here's the problems the country will face. here's the solutions. we elected someone who didn't understand the problem. to the extent he did understand that, he came out with the wrong solutions. we have a candidate -- he's saying he won't run -- i hope he will run. i believe that mitt will

wait and see how the primary process works out, who seems to be taking the lead, if there's a -- a real leader who can solve problems, i think mitt will get behind him. neil: i don't know. if he wants to strike, you have to strike early and before the iron even gets hot. i don't even know what that means. >> nobody wants to see him do that more than me. we talked -- i think the country understands. you and i talked about this when that movie mitt came out, how there's a really different guy there that people can support. mitt is a decent, honorable guy. i hope he runs again. neil: you were loyal to him. you didn't turn your back on him as i would because i'm the fair weather friend, but i always admired that about you. thank you very much, my friend. that doesn't mean i respect the fact that you stayed thin running this fast food empire. >> it's not easy.

neil: no. i agree. food guys aren't the only ones with white house indigestion. take a look. >> we currently have a government that has shifted into regulatory overdrive. the administration knows that time is running out, and there is every incentive and temptation to ram new rules through the pipeline and never mind the process, the research, the cost, or the benefits. some 4,000 new rules are being issued every year. neil: so let me translate that in ways that maybe more can understand. mr. president. to the fox biz all-stars. tracy, what do you say to the administration's regulation push here. now, it's hitting businesses large and small, and they don't seem to mind.

>> it's da de. we don't talk about common core enough. people should wake up. it amazes me that businesses have alienated the administration. large and small. all of them are being hurt. very few benefiting from this administration, except for hollywood, and i don't know why we -- neil: but they're doubling down on it. >> they are. this makes yogi bear sick. it's about small businesses. big businesses are still pushing their weight around. when you look at the nifb, which puts out stats, government bureaucracy and red tape are the biggest problems. poor sales are way down on the list. (?) so government is the issue. they're telling you that. neil: i always think, regardless of what your side is politically, maybe the problem is with the underlying economy,

and not interfearing with the few folks creating the jobs. if you provide a great environment, we wouldn't have to worry about who is working full-time, part-time or any time. >> all this extra regulation isn't helping people who want to hire, whether it's full-time or part-time. having those layers of regulation, extra tax codes, all this confusion -- neil: each regulation comes with like a notebook sized -- >> right. they don't have clarity of what's happening. >> they drop them at the most inopportune time. who does that. >> those regulations cost businesses so much money. the smaller you are -- neil: ignorance is never bliss. >> hiring people to go through those books. neil: why are you yelling at me? i didn't come up with them. >> things will change the next day. you don't want to hire either. you don't know what the

regulatory environment will be. neil: you want to put a chill on hiring. >> the only people you're hiring are people who can get through dodd-frank and whatever regulations coming through. >> the common core. neil: right. absolutely. so many things are going bad. i don't have enough time. go to facebook.com/teamcavuto. tell me if these regulations are helping or hurting these people. any time you're on facebook, friend me because i'm vulnerable. meanwhile, move over pope francis. you might as well cool your jets you peacemakers. when it comes to time's next person of the year, you guys, well, it looks like you're going to lose to these guys.

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>> okay so who says protesting doesn't get you anywhere. if you're loud enough, angry enough, have al sharpton inciting you enough, you can land on time magazine. not just on any cover, i'm talking the big one. time's person of the year. think it can't happen. just remember where you heard it first. to katrina who says she would not be surprised if those ferguson rioters end up on that issue. >> it tells us that liberals know far and well to use media and culture to further their agenda. they have created this narrative that on the other side no one is

taking advantage of. this is an opportunity, if i'm chairmen of the rnc, neil, i'm sponsoring facebook ads, twitter ads, good for you, time magazine. let's elevate these protesters and saying, this is what happens with failed liberal policies. bad education system. low wages. no jobs. thank you, time magazine for giving us the opportunity to engage people like ferguson and other places that are plagued by the similar circumstances. neil: there's a rumor that people are pofght. it could be wrong. the person of the year, all those who didn't pick up a rock and fling it at a star. i would recognize the overwhelming majority of americans of all colors who did not immediately have a violent response. i would put them on the cover. but, again, i'm not in the magazine cover

business. >> well, and plus, it's sensationalism. that's what sells. they want to elevate their sells. neil: by doing something like this, they're elevating this like this is reflective of the entire nation. of all in this case african-americans, when that is not the case. and it's insulting to those who are not remoting tied to this. >> but they do know that this is the imagery that does resonate in those communities simply because the other side isn't there saying, hey, forget about this race stuff. let's talk about the root cause. these are all just symptoms, and they know this. the liberals know this. that's why they sensationalize all of this. put it into the media the culture, the music. we have to get in there and engage. let's talk about why this is happening in ferguson. because of failed liberal policies. congressional representation. lacey clay has a

14 percent rating on a liberty scorecard. someone who funds climate change and supports amnesty, which decreases wages and takes away african-american jobs. we should use this to our advantage and educate the people in ferguson and then give them our policies that are pro prosperity and antipoverty. neil: don't hold your breath on that particular cover. we shall say. in the meantime, as we were speaking, look what happened. we did it. yes. take a bow. all of us. we crossed the $18 trillion in debt mark. congratulations, america. that's our big old american visa bill, and we don't have a clue how we'll ever pay it off. so you won't believe what we're doing instead. but enough of the bad news, congratulations. take a bow

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neil: you know, we've got an enormous response to this new segment. okay, in the cavuto family, but it's been big. we call it neil's spiel. here's why.

it's my time in the show where i vent about something that i think is out of control. and i usually get out of control myself, just telling it. and what's got me spieling lately is the washington spending. what's new, you ask? how about crossing the 18 trillion bucks in debt. think about that. we as a nation, we're 18 trillion bucks i in debt. it's a big hole. we're still digging, still spending. billions for from infrastructure projects that never fix what they're supposed to fix to measly hundreds of police cameras that never focus on where the problems start. no matter. they spend on your dime. oblivious to the financial havoc they're about to unleash on all the world. yeah, the world. because it's a lot of money that they're spending. it gets old saying that

it's been very fortune that interest rates have been this low. it gets old by saying that those rates are only slightly higher, we'd be in a whole heap of trouble. it gets old saying we should do something when the president is all, but bragging about half trillion dollars of deficit, as if that's something. as if spending half as much as before isn't as bad. another half trillion added to a debt that like i say is beyond bad. so we smile and ignore the problem. democrats and republicans alike hoping to blame the other for the problem. it's easier to pretend than to lead. to keep spending than to admit, you know what, we're spent. we're all spent. and pretty soon this country's rating won't be worth spit. you can only play these shell games before investors propping us up say so long.

that's when washington will panic. that's the moment they run out of options because that is when they run out of something else, our money. and if former home depot ceo is right, and he always is. we run out of our future. 18 trillion greeted with a yawn. what do you make of that. >> it took us 229 years to run up the first 9 trillion. that was called unpatriotic. we've doubled it and added another 9 trillion. neil: there's no looking back. i mean, there's no urge to at least cool it on the spending. we're doubling down on the spending. >> well, nobody seems to care. and there's no understanding that every dollar we spend today and go into debt will have to be paid off by somebody. you have over 10,000 people retiring every single day going on the doll expecting to be paid. and you've got everybody

over 65 who are saying, well, i won't have to pay for it. anybody in their 20s, 30s, 40s, these people need to wake up the bill will come due at some point. soon, we'll have to spend every dollar in the federal budget just to pay the interest on the debt. it's completely unsustainable. we have to get serious and act like adults here and start to reform the policies that we've got in place, especially medicare and social security. neil: well, god forbid we even try to touch and adjust the growth in that. they treated paul ryan as lucifer. i tell people, especially young people, we're a few years off from more than half of our budget going to interest payments on the debt. imagine people at home dealing with interest on the bills and half of their money is paying off interest, not even the minimum balance, but interest on the visa bill, and i'm leaving

out their mortgage. game over. yet this game continues. >> well, it does. and we as parents tell our children, no, you can't have that. no, we can't afford that. we're able to put this discipline in our personal lives, we go to the ballot box and say, yes, we want more. neil: we all think it's due for us. if i ran for office, there would be no bacon, no bull, i wouldn't give you anything because i would remind people how deep we are in the red. if you don't have any money in the pot, you can't spend anything at all no matter the intentions. >> we keep saying, let's tax the rich. you have 400 people -- 400 individuals paying as much as the bottom 50 percent of all taxpayers. they're paying for everything right now. neil: you can tax the top 1 percent greatly and that wouldn't even cover it.

>> you could seize their assets, and it wouldn't -- neil: don't give them any ideas. >> i know. the point is we have to stop spending. act like adults. yes, these are great programs. how can you argue against this or that. neil: you can make a good case for any government issue. i work with a very young crew, the bane of my existence. i look okay for social security. none of you do. that doesn't really bother me that much. it might bother you. but letting you know, you're doomed. >> no. and the young people need to step up. they need to realize -- neil: they're more concerned and attuned to this than you know. they give me hope. steve, thank you very much. >> thank you, neil. neil: don't think you can cover your assets in stocks when everything hits the sand. wait until you hear about how some bad guys are gaining the stock market and kicking you market and kicking you in the

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neil: to all those who is, you know, neil, i want nothing to do with the stock market. now reports of the cyber ring stealing top corporate secrets hoping to do just that. not only rigged the market, but damn near controlled the whole thing. gaining to a point where all that stolen corporate things they're getting, these cyber thieves can control the heart of capitalism themselves. now, what do i tell these young people? i already told them they're not getting social security. they're already braced for this. they're telling fbn that businesses are way behind when it comes to cyber security. and way behind something that could tank our market. something our cyber czar has been warning us for years. this sounds like serious stuff. but this strikes at the heart of faith in our -- in our capitalist system

and the companies represented on those averages. >> you know, neil, this is what i would consider to be the perfect storm of things that affect the financial markets. you have the installation of malware. things that actually control a system and delete the data that we depend on to run the markets to run our businesses. >> what are they doing? i don't understand what they're capable of doing or what they have their hands on. we've seen it since in the past where malware, malicious software is installed. it just deletes data. that's the number one piece of this. when you or i or anyone that depends on that information, it's just flat not there. that's probably one of the scariest portions of it. neil: i'm sorry. i'm slow. you're a genius. if you're able to go inside a company's spreadsheet and all their financials and delete stuff, all of a sudden, everything is a mystery. right? you don't know what

you're investing in. you don't know what you're plunking money down on. right? >> and that's correct. and that's one of the situations we see. not only would it affect our decisions that you and i make, but it also gives the criminal the ability to look at, say, quarterly sales reports and all these things and say, okay, i will dump stock or i will buy stock for their own self-gain. but the biggest worry, and that's where the bad stuff comes into play, is they can effect it to where we can't trust it anymore. if we can't truss it, what will happen to the entire market. neil: the buyers go and in the absence of buyers, the market goes down. >> that's correct. that's one of the things where in part two, interaccepting executive's emails and stuff (?) they have the ability to see what quarterly reports will look like. what sales are. what m&as will be out there. they can react to that and effect it to where

it won't go through. or worse, make a lot of money on it and it's all on our back. neil: scary stuff. thank you, my friend. so imagine then if young investors most profound fears about investing are actually proven right, that the market really could be rigged, to my all-stars, if that happens, this rally is not happening. >> we'll never get that generation back. we've already lost the baby boomers. they're gone. the young millennials are sitting on their cash. not doing anything. not buying houses. not investing. if they think this is a system will be hacked, forget it. you'll never see that money. you need that cash to come in. we need buyers and sellers. that's what makes the market. neil: the market has always ignored these fears. and it still climbs that wall of worry. >> when things are good. until a hack like this happens.

the confidence is what keeps the bull market going. the lack therefore starts the bear market. that could be a slippery slope. you're good. your stuff is here and there. if you think about the data that the hackers want, it's on here. on servers, on the cloud, it's accessible. they can get to it. neil: then they can manipulate it. >> imagine if they manipulate the execution systems for the stocks themselves. most the tradings by computer anyway. neil: a series of flash crashes. >> we've lived through that. we don't whand to the flash crash or how it happened. you have these kids who first think the rich are making money regardless. that's already part of the rigged system because the rich make money. we don't. now you have the notion that quld china can hack it and take my money. forget it. they will carry it in their backpacks the rest of their lives. >> young people are skeptical to begin with. neil: are you speaking as a young person? >> a good way to look at

this is maybe to invest in companies that are developing cyber security, who are in that field. or if you're a student, if i had a kid, i would be telling them to go to college and learn how to work in cyber security. get those technical skills. that's where the jobs will be. neil: i would gather the hackers around and say, make the debt go away. change a couple of numbers. move a couple of digits over. >> how about that? neil: give a percentage of the debt. if you're this good as removing data that we need, why not remove that tire some debt figures. it's not happening. >> a lot of millennials who are saddled with college debt -- neil: you moan about your college debt. >> it's a lot. >> it's not just the millennials it's the old people that they worry dhel hacthey will hack the power grid. ferguson on steroids.

neil: anyone who sees their bank account zeroed out -- >> that would be a nightmare very scary. neil: you want to know why there's a mess at the border. border agents are now taking the eye up the border. and they're being paid to focus on the internet. really? ye, ally

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and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it's so, what's the word?... sexy. go national. go like a pro. neil: border agents focusing on fake products online and less than illegals at the border. ice custom officials are now tracking down counterfeit goods on the web. ronald says they should be focusing solely on illegal immigrants and not for now illegal merchandise. as you remind me, there's nothing wrong with looking after illegal merchandise, but the more pressing problem seems to be illegals, period. who got them into this, you know, sidetracked business? >> well, thank you,

neil. and to be clear, it's a matter of priorities. neil: absolutely. >> the border of control agents as well as their partners with the field operators at the ports of entry are still protecting our borders, but the investigative branch hsi with ice needs to prioritize. the economy trademarking in trade being protected from those who would victimize trade is an important pursuit, but not as protecting america. neil: i'm not minimizing people who violate patents. if you're assigning these people who should be on more important things, me thinks you're not too keen on their original job, and that is keeping illegals out of here. me thinks, that's not an interest of yours at all. >> absolutely. on 911,

the aircraft hijacked was not hijacked with high end watchers are -- or gucci leather purses. it was hijacked by people. ever since the stand up of the homeland security, they've been conflicted and dysfunctional. we brought in customs people who are looking for people selling false purses. we brought in the immigration services investigators required to be bilingual to enforce immigration law. neil: wait a minute. you let that important little fact -- that's one thing i noticed. they would gather up all the false purses. all right, we have all the false coach bags, what about the people that brought them here? we're on them. don't worry. i mean, come on. >> there's only one agency in america that

is tasked with seeking out foreign-born nationals illegally in the us that would and do what happens to us on 911, that is ice. they want to be atf agents. they don't want to enforce the laws that could stop people. take away the magnets that draw them to america such as unlawful employment. they are tasked with that. they would rather surf the net for trademark violations. neil: that's incredible. their underlying job is a parenta pretty big deal. no slouchy job. cyber monday is now cyber week and pretty soon cyber month. cyber decade and cyber millennium. it's not working. why isn't any of this working? how can power consumption

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neil: in tonight biz blitz, the us middle class running dry. the wall street journal breaking down on how americans are being squeezed by basic cause ke cl phe bills, health care, you name it. tracy, no surprise, online holiday sales, holiday sales in general aren't up to snuff. >> because there's a small pot of money for the holidays, neil. and we talked about this here on your show. whether you gave me a deal before thanksgiving or on christmas eve, which is when i'm in the stores, it's still the same money. there's not enough to go around. >> they're not going to spend more.

even with gas prices coming down, food is up. arei ts itself out. the consumer doesn't have extra this year. >> the consumer is stretched indeed. health care costs are going up. they probably will go up further. people are having to pay premiums. that's taking a bigger share of their wallets. higher deductibles. this is before that even kicks in. they're paying more. they don't have the money to go out to dinner as much as they used to. neil: i thought the gas thing countered that. >> it should. the other thing about the gas, people think the gas is going lower. if it doesn't, if they expect it to, they'll hold off on buying that blender, which i'm in the market for, by the way. but here's the other thing -- >> you don't even have a car. >> you're right. how do i carry it home? here's the thing, it is the same money, but the consumers aren't dumb anymore. meaning, they know that

most of those deals will be around all year. >> right. shop around online. neil: pressure in their minds and we appreciate it. you talk about scarred -- >> they remember '08. they're not doing better financially than they did five years ago. and unless they're investors. a lot of them missed out on the rally. >> there's no tickle me elmo that everyone has to have. neil: to be fair, you're cheap. very cheap. >> totally fair. neil: i mean, you're the worst mother in that regard. nothing under the tree. >> that is true. nothing worth charging. neil: real estate appraisers to fannie mae and freddie mac. reports that home appraisals are going back to be generous by eager lenders adding extra pressure and, of course, fannie and freddie are making that

down payment a little extra easy in some cases as little as 3 percent down. scott, i almost think if this continues, we're begging for another housing crash. i'm all for giving people a break. but these the same type of breaks that led to the last break down. >> we saw how the movie ended. this is a tough one. if you look at banks today, they're pretty darn well-capitalized. neil: they're going to unshorn their sheets. >> that money has to go somewhere. there's an old: if it isn't lent, it isn't spent. the banks are -- >> so witty. very good expression. >> if you don't get that money out of the bank coffers -- neil: why would the banks risk doing the very thing that got them in trouble before. >> otherwise the banks sit on the cash and don't make money anyway. >> which is exactly why they should raise interest rates. there is no incentive to

lend this money. i'm not going to look for a home, i know they will beat me down and ask me for my first born. neil: you're not going have any trouble getting a mortgage. you're not ben better bernanke. >> people are afraid it's going to be an onerous process. >> it scares people away. if people do keep loosening the regulations, people need to have common sense so we don't repeat the housing market crisis all over again. neil: are you afraid -- interest rates are obscenely low and a bubble could form all over again, if it hasn't already. >> i think there's a bubble somewhere around the world, but in the u.s. interest rates are so low, you can barely see them. if you look at our counterparts overseas. japan. italian. italy. neil: why do you throw italy in

there? >> if those rates are as low as they are overseas. imagine how low our rates could get. >> it's counter intuitive. just pump them up a little. neil: be careful what you wish for. i'm not as cheap as you. all right. when we come back, hold on. after this

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neil: and what's the deal with my saying "what's the deal, neil?." >> what's the deal with saying this is it? i didn't say he was it as much as showing the poll. it shows he's the only republican leading hillary clinton. we focused on it. leslie in new york had enough of it. he's the best known name cavuto. of course he's leading against hillary, any republican looks good. right now mitt romney is the only republican who looks good versus her.

meanwhi meanwhile chuck in tennessee could not agree more -- the only reason you like romney is you have the same lego hair, doesn't work for you, doesn't work for him, but it doesn't take either of us long to get our hair ready in the morning. bruce in california --

what? thomas, via sbc, that's it, i'm moving, captain pete, the day we make stars out of sap, start playing taps. very creative. the action during ferguson are so depressing and the president reached out to al sharpton to help men relationships is unfair to all concerned. kelly, al sharpton, are you kidding me? bozo the clown couldn't make it. reverend al sharpton is in ferguson promoting the riot and the havocs. is it me or the president only invite reverends with his point

of view. the ministers you had on question his taking sides on this never get invited anywhere. thank god you are even handed, i see you host the credible and crackpot guests with equal vigor. well, fair and balanced crackpoting here. jim in minnesota, why isn't sharpton indicted for inciting riots. why isn't sharpton indicted for tax shortfalls. well, being an extension of the white house, the mainstream media lets him. bob in alabama, i know people can be prosecuted for shouting fire in the theater. why can't sharpton be arrested for inciting riots. why isn't sharpton arrested. sharpton isn't inciting but is insippid. don in delaware, neil, i watch your show, though i am not a fan of sharpton's, you need to be aware there are many whites

that are more racist, the comments about the president and almost any other black in office can be quite disturbing. people need to realize people need to be looked at as individuals and held accountable for actions. i agree with all of that, don, that is what we try to do here. those who agree with the president's policies, those who do not. those who argue by including the likes of sharpton, inciting racial tensions, those who say just opposite. my position remains the same. no matter the color of your skin. i have no issue with the color of anyone's skin. more often than not just the thickness of it. let us know how you think, apparently it's important, i remind to you friend me. that's a facebook term it means you want to be my friend. if you don't want to be my friend, you can switch on over to o'reilly and defriend him do. they have such a term? no.

but look, if you want to be in the uner circle, you know, of power players, come to fooshgs come to me, friend me, because i like you. will do it here, see you tomorrow. kennedy: what happens when you turn 18, and you get to vote, you register for the service. more felonies, what happens when debt tops 18 as in tril. when you're dealing with a number as big as $18 billion it doesn't make sense anymore, what does it make sense to tackle this which promises to engorge itself under the weight of its absurdit. spend more money. people are intrigued more with republicans than democrat, it's the myopic two party malarkey that got us into the pickle. instead of generating more nonsolutions like eric holder without taxing proble