theirs is a war story that deserves to be told. i'm oliver north. good night. >> go to foxandfrien the end of the show show and en this incredible choir. leaders of the donkey party on the run. now running away from the costly health care law. meanwhile, no one can run away from this, our national debt topping 18 trillion. that's with a "t," dollars. will this number keep running up? unless we cut big government programs down. i'm brenda buttner. this is bulls and bears. tracy, jonas, john and jessica. welcome to everybody. john, they are running up our visa bill here. no one is doing anything about it. no minimum payment. >> yeah, they are doing exactly

what they said they wouldn't do. candidate obama in 2008 said president bush was unpatriotic, a lack of leadership because he increased the deficit by $4 trillion plus. president obama increased it over $7 trillion. he doubled it. president obama is going to do the same thing. we are going to be at $20 trillion. if you stick a normalized 5% interest rate on this, a historic average, in interest alone, that covers the entire tax revenue of $3.3 trillion projected for 2015. that means we don't have one dime left without borrowing for education, defense, the state department, anything. you have to deal with the entitlements and deal with this massive, bloated health care to get cost under control. >> jessica, you agree? >> i think we need to make a difference here.

differentiate between the debt and the deficit. the debt is the overall number that has increased. it's gone to things that's needed to happen like the iraq wars where all that money went and put under george bush into the debt. then the deal with the economy and the recession and treasuries and trying to keep the economy stable in the country. at the same time, during president obama's administration, our spending dropped. government spending has gone down now from over $1.5 trillion to almost $500 billion. there is cutting going on in government spending. it's dealing with the larger issue, more macroeconomic issue. >> gary b., let's get back to the $18 trillion. this affects every one of us, every man, woman and child owes $56,000. i can't afford that. >> exactly, brenda. and the bill is going to go up.

i want to address one point jessica made. george bush is thrown under the bus with the wars. i would counter with that great stimulus that we had certainly didn't help the debt or the deficit and that was all president obama. the bigger point jessica did get right is the debt at $18 trillion. by the year 2030, all of our tax revenue will go to pay, as john alluded to, entitlements and the interest we have on the debt. i mean that's it. we are not going to have money for anything else. social security went into the red in 2010. so, those deficits are locked in. that's set right there. those deficits will quaut rup l in 20 years. it's not president obama. i's not president bush. they are in charge of discretionary spending. unless congress and the president start to make a dent on things like medicaid,

medicare and social security and get off this, yes, we need to spend it there. we are going to be all broken. 56,000 as you mentioned. think about that doubling. >> actually, $5 trillion was taken out of the social security and medicare funds and put into the debt. the government owes social security money. >> they borrowed it. look, to gary's point, 45% of the budget goes to entitlements that nobody has the spine to tackle. they both mention the interest payments, which will be $800 billion in 2024. $800 billion. i can't wrap my head around that. that's interest alone. god forbid we need money for war or anything else. we are not going to have it. this is important. congress has to wake up. gary is right. this is congress. this is on congress' shoulder

and this is the republicans to win. if they can do something about this now that they have majority come january, they should do something about this. it is going to affect our children and grandchildren. >> i don't know a politician who is willing to touch social security and medicare. so, is there any hope that the debt is going to come down, especially if we keep pushing big, government programs? >> no, the only thing they want to touch, including the democrats is obamacare. there's a lot of reasons not to like obamacare. the debt is not one of them. knock off social security, you can make this number not go up every year. if you wipe out obamacare, the number is still going up. they have a revenue model. we don't like it, but it is there. there's tax revenues coming in. it's not the medicare drug plan. the number is not going up like medicare. those were the problems that would have to be addressed.

>> what about food stamps and welfare? they have really gone up. >> they have gone up because poverty has gone up. poverty under this president has gone up and food stamps the same. cut down food stamps, cut down poverty. the inequality with this president, blame president bush. the sun is in your eyes, your shoes are untied. what other ridiculous excuses can you make up for continuing to do the same things that let our country have a massive deficit. free cuba. cuba blocks the signal. you know why it's not stopped? it creates jobs. you try to take away one government enterprise, it's $27 million. take away one of these big, big entitlements and see the fight you have on your hand. once the government program goes in place, it never stops. that is the problem. >> that's true. government never gets smaller, does it, gary b.?

>> no, it doesn't. you see all the flip-flops, the programs the democrats were against they are now for. same with the republicans, by the way. if it comes to spending, they see fault to the left. yeah, we can cut that. we can cut social security. it's good. the bedrock of civilization. this country is like an alcoholic that you know one more drink, one more drink is going to be bad for you and kill you. you can't help bellying up to the bar. that's the problem we have. >> tracy, the democrats passed obamacare. now they are not running, they are sprinting away from it. what does that mean? >> it means they are not going to get re-elected. it's about the voting system. here we are, again and here i am preaching for term limits. if there were, people would be brave enough to step up and say we have to fix stuff.

it's okay if you don't vote me back because i have to go home. it is okay. we need those kind of people. social security, medicare and medicaid. we can't afford it. obamacare, of course they are backing away from it. it's not going to affect the debt, it is going to affect your tax bill, employment. you name it, down the line. >> why are they backing away? why are they running away? >> the issue is separate from health care. that's a political overarching agenda. the idea that there is, you know, going to be this whole sense of $18 trillion released to it in the sense that yeah, the main issue of dealing with the economy at large. the reason it is 18 trillion is because its treasury. it's the money we borrow as a nation. it's money we are taking from foreign countries. government spending has gone down.

that does not fix this problem. that's the issue. >> it's going to double under president obama. >> there is no family with access to trillions of dollars. from a business standpoint -- >> i'm going to let someone get in here. >> not enough voters got benefits from obamacare, that's the bottom line. he would rather give money to older people. all the people who got elections didn't go out and vote. that's what he's mad about. he cares about vote collection. >> most of them do. thanks, guys. protests across the country sparking a shocking message from one minister. >> you are feeling hate and confusion back into communities. sir, sit-down. >> find out who he is talking about and why his message is something we all should be listening to.

more on that at the bottom of the hour. first, just as jobs are coming back, the president pushing a new rule on job creators that some say could kick workers to the curb. .

i'm kelly wright. now back to bulls and bears. jobs rebounding in a big way. 321,000 new ones created last month. some say that could be over thanks to the administration's

new rule on how company's pay overtime. gary, what's it mean? >> less jobs. every time the government mettles, it mettles with the free market. businesses, small and large are ruthlessly efficient in turning out the most profit they can for the least amount of cost. when the government comes in, whether it's the mileage regulations, standards for the auto industry or pollution standards for the coal industry or the new one determining who is the manager and who is not resulting in more overtime pay. it's a big tax on businesses. when you have more tax on businesses, they make less profit. they make less profit that is less money for them to put in the business, open new business and hire people. anytime you see a law come down, it's going to result in less employment than there would be if the market was allowed to operate freely.

>> how does it not hurt the market? >> this is simply fixing a loophole. it's simple. there's only been a raise in the income level to be considered a manager twice in the last 40 years. currently, only 12% of employees are eligible to get overtime based on the current system and in 1975, it was 65%. so, all it is is fixing an equality that exists because it's not been addressed in 40 years. >> john, shouldn't businesses be determining what to pay their workers instead of the government telling us from a law that was during the great depression? >> 1938, it was to deal with factory and manufacturing. there's a reason it's not updated. it's outdated and should be taken off the books. there's nobody home in the white house. everyone is gone that was grown up. you have a president there who doesn't know what to do.

you are not going to get tax reform done or energy policy done. the only thing you are going to be able to do to divide the gap of inequality, he wants to make the rich poorer instead of making the poor richer. that is what he's doing here. this is a disaster for small businesses. >> jonas, what do you think? >> it was taken off the books with the bush administration. the fdr policy is at least five years too late. in 1938, we had a double digit unemployment rate. the employer has to hire three people to do the work of two people. they are going to hire more people. it manufactures a lower unemployment rate. this isn't a great policy because it's what europe does. that's why our employment rate skyrocketed, then fall fast.

it barely went up, but never going down. you can't have the flexible. >> it's supposed to kick in in february. what am i going to do until february? nothing. there were 3400 new regulations dropped before thanksgiving. tackle that on. that means i'm not going to hire because who knows what is going to come down in march or april or when ever else the wind blows and the administration decides to throw regulation on small businesses. they polled small businesses and say the number one biggest problem, regulations and red tape. that is causing job growth in this country. >> thanks, guys. cashing in. just over an hour from now. what is coming up? >> continue from coast-to-coast. now the president wants to spend millions, arming them with body cams. does this prove it would be a waste of time and money? cashing in, never a waste of your time. see you at 11:30.

>> that's for sure. thanks, we'll be watching. up here, most college kids taking a fifth year victory lap before finally earning that degree. time for parents to give them the third degree? ♪

hey check it out huh what happened to that guy? hey, get that sign back up! ♪you're not alone, together we stand♪ (sndfx: clapping) ♪i'll be by your side you know i'll take your hand♪ (sndfx: clapping) ♪when it gets cold and it feels like the end♪ (sndfx: clapping) ♪there's no place to go you know i won't give in♪ (sndfx: clapping) ♪no, i won't give in ♪keep holding on

♪caues ya know we'll make it through, make it through♪ ♪keep holding on

getting more expensive pause the four year degree is turning into a five year or six year degree. a new study showing the majority of college kids taking more years to get their diploma. tracy has a solution. >> cut them off. the kids are coming out with debt and no jobs, unfortunately. the unemployment rate for kids 18 to 25 is upwards of 14.5%. get in. get your degree. take a shakespeare class so he doesn't die with everyone else and get work experience. >> gary, you put two girls through college and you are not sure it was a great investment. >> i'm not. i think college is good for some. i look at my experience. i graduated and went to ibm. looking back at it, i could have

done that program out of high school. i learned so much in those 18 months that i don't think any of my college experience, maybe a little bit, four years of maturity helped. i think we are going to get to the model where we have internships that lead to jobs for companies. i'm not sure being a philosophy major or something else in college makes sense for a lot of kids. >> jonas, what do you say? >> we are underestimating the desire for the kids to be home with their parents. if we saw a lot of six year kids, i don't think their parents want them home. they are happy to pay or lend or borrow money. they are not going to get jobs at ibm. i think it serves a purpose to get kids from point a, age 18, to employable, which can take a long time for some people. >> a lot of them are community college kids working full time to put themselves through college. they have to take a year off or

so to make the money. >> they are only able to take a few courses at a time. i think that was one of the shocking things about the study. it focused only on public universities. there was a difference with the community college kids. there are a lot of kids out there, particularly in public universities who are working and trying to pay. college is so outrageously expensive. if you are instate, it is unbelievable. they have to pay for everything. i.r.a.s were hit and the interest parents had. it's a struggle. i don't look to academia for answers in terms of expediency and helping the situation. unfortunately, i think kids get the brunt of it. >> okay. john, what do you think? you are one of the most successful people on this show. what did college do for you? did you take a victory lap?

>> and leave college early to play profootball was the best thing that happened to me. i got to drop the most boring, poetry class. dumbest thing i did was being in that class. colleges take kids money. it's that simple. colleges turn a four-year degree into a six-year degree. i don't know why they need to be four years. if it's two years, get them out. it's about money. >> tough parents here. thanks, guys. thank you, jessica for joining us. we appreciate it. okay. now that's a mile race that i could not only run but win. the name that could be running up because of it. it's a man's world?

well i don't see anybody's name on it. while they were out doing their thing. we slowly changed all that. we changed all that. today women can do anything men can do. and there's one thing we're even better at...

predictions. gary b., take it away. >> i bet almost every watching uses amazon for christmas. the stock is up 40% in the next six months. >> amazon prime. jonas? >> the flu vaccine is not effective this year. it's good for people getting out of the flu business. >> john? >> scientists broke the record in the beer mile run. if you are going to drink and run, do it in under armor.

>> i bet on you for that one. >> one in three parents admit to ordering out. dinner is the most stressful meal of the day. i say out's more and you don't want to admit it. >> hello dominos, yes. neil, take it away. >> hands up. >> don't shoot. >> times up on the hands up. america better listen up. not to this. maybe to this one. >> you are feeling hate, confusion, because you have lost a round. sir, sit-down. god is not with you. you need to take a seat, take the back of the seat and sit down and let got take control of the situation. in god there's love. in god there's peace. in god there's unity. you are showing none of that to the human race. >> talk about silence. or was that the sound of martin lu