>> welcome, everybody, i'm neil cavuto. the torture secrets are out, the white house can take cleaver to defense and that's what i'm beginning to wonder whether this is just a setup for big old defense budget shakedown. what do you think? >> i think it's a couple of things, i think certainly continuing to slash defense is on this president's agenda. we've seen it from the very beginning. doing great damage to our national defense at precisely the moment can you face significant threat around the world.

the democrats primarily on this committee entirely on this committee are looking for cover and looking for a way they can protect themselves. frankly, it's dishonorable to do that at the expense not only of the men and women who kept us safe after 911. but at the expense of the security of the nation when you think about the damage that has come from releasing the report not to mention the resources and man-hours that were spent on this investigation pulling cia officers away from their fundamental task, which is making sure that the homeland is safe. neil: but i'm wondering if they're repeating what a lot of these same senators did when they voted to go to war in iraq. we're given the same information. all, but saying they're

set up. i'm wondering if we're repeating history here. what do you think? >> it's certainly -- there's definitely a pattern there. we don't have some sort of an abundance of courage unfortunately among many of our elected representatives. you've seen not just 9/11, but it goes back to the iran contra, where you have situations where we ask our intelligence community to undertake very difficult tasks. we ask them to do things that put them at risk. that potentially put their families at risk. we ask them to do that to keep us safe. and we need effective oversight of what they're doing. neil: what these guys are saying, liz, as you know, that your dad and president bush were surprised themselves to see the degree to which the cia overstepped itself. to your dad's credit, president bush, they stand by the cia. they say they do a whole lot more good than harm. and this is a great danger and threat.

back to -- if you don't mind my money nerd, this is about cutting the cia's budget, setting the tone to have people think ill of the defense establishment, and cutting a lot of funds going forward to say, well, this is the hell they wrought on you. >> look, i think that is certainly part of it, neil. i don't think you can discount that. i think it's more than that though. because this is something that you saw from the very first days of this president's presidency, when he came into office and said he would begin to prosecute these cia officials. and, you know, first of all, the -- the notion that somehow the president, the vice president, that they were unaware of the program, weren't briefed on it, is flat wrong. and they've said it's flat wrong. they were involved in this program president the program was authorized. you've had the six organizers to say, this program kept us safe and prevent attacks. and you had mike say, the information from this program is frankly still helping us to

fight al-qaeda. so i'm sure you're right that the president will do anything he can to find ways to cut money from our defense budgets, but this is a new low. and new low for senator feinstein as well. neil: thank you as always. good seeing you. as we pointed out, that cia report is out. the former cia director on whether anyone checked its facts out. and who was doing it if anyone was? james has his doubts. ambassador, director, good to have you. what are your worries here? >> well, i'm really concerned that, as a result of the publicationpublication of this material, it's one thing for people to debate it in private, that would have been reasonable. neil: that's a big assumption, ambassador. we're giving them more credit than they deserve. >> but that's not what happened. what happened with the president's concurrents, the democrats on the staff, the committee

released this material. they released it to al-qaeda and isis. they didn't just release it to the american people. we're helping by turning this material loose this way, we're helping the terrorists figure out how we operate. what information we need and the rest. it really was a terrible decision, at least in my judgment to make this material public. neil: i'm sure you know that john mccain disagrees. he says if you want to incentivize bad guys to do bad things to us, they were already doing it. >> i'm a big admirer of john mccain. i still like to see him be president, but i disagree on this point. neil: this notion that this is all of a sudden going to let an evil genie out of a bottle. isn't it already out, to the senator's point? >> well, what -- it's not that the genie -- people didn't know that there was some kind of genie there.

neil: right. >> what this does, it gives the enemy all the details. because you can't just release the material to your own side. it doesn't work that way. and that means that in any kind of effort to work together with foreign intelligence services, the brits, the germans, whatever, they're going to believe that whatever they do may well be turned loose by the americans at any moment. it makes it very difficult to get the kind of cooperation you really have to have in order to move against terrorist organizations, with your colleagues in other countries. neil: let me pursue this point. do you think this is a way to justify cutting the cia budget or overall military budget? >> i don't know. i think the president is inclined to cut both the cia and military budget. but whether this is part of his thinking on this or not, i don't know. neil: where do you think it goes? obviously defense establishment isn't

going to be getting more money, at least from this president over the next two years. congress will fight that, i'm sure. where is it going? >> i don't know that this is the lever. but i think that on the whole, this administration has been far too weak on funding defense and supporting what we need by way of weapons program and infrastructure and the research and development -- everything that the military needs in order to function. we're a bleedin bleeding dry. it's a terrible situation. neil: thank you, sir. lawmakers are close to extending at least terrorism that would provide backstops in the event of a terrible attack. robert moore, he says after this report, we might need it now more than ever. your fear is this will insty gate the type of attacks for which we wouldn't be insured. >> based on the release of the information from the cia yesterday and the reports going pretty

much everywhere, we're at our -- a more heightened alert. to kill the terrorism bill or the extension is even worse. we need it now more than ever. neil: what does it provide. >> a backstop for insurance companies so that they can offer the coverage. if there's no terrorism act and no backstop, insurance carriers won't offer the coverage. not even on a limited amount. they offer terrorism coverage right now because the act is still enforced. neil: and it covers what? >> the insurance companies have a 20% deductible of their premiums. then the government kicks in up to a hundred billion dollars. 85% of those claims they'll change. then 15% goes back to the insurance companies. right now we have the coverage. we need to have it. after 9/11, 200,000 jobs were lost because nobody

would buy terrorism insurance because you couldn't get it because the companies wouldn't sell it. it was too expensive. neil: what about the idea if taxpayers could go broke? we'd never be able to keep up with it and afford it. >> we have to start somewhere. there should be more of a process here. okay. we're 20 days before the renewal, let's get the extension done and then worry about it. neil: isn't that the argument, they're going to argue the cost? >> well, they want to increase the insurance company's pay or play in the model. they want to bear more of the risk. maybe they can afford to bear more of the risk. to not at least have a backstop for them somewhere is unheard of. neil: it's interesting as you frame it, that the release of this report and all these details has actually -- >> for sure. neil: heightened the need for this. >> how will you buy a building in times

square, in chicago, in boston, in la, where they say to have terrorism insurance. they all require it. there's no question about it. what if you can't buy it? neil: who says republicans caved on that entire trillion dollar budget deal. what if i told you they just want something big. and, i mean i mean something very big. i'll let you in on it.

neil: all right. the grand old party said it has the green light to cut red tape. they will use this budget deal to scale back on reform. that ignite liz warren

who is don't touch this thing. it's a good fortunately. thing. sheila, good to have you. they say there's a lot of stupid stuff in that thing. now is the time to deal with it. you say what? >> well, there's a lot of things in dodd-frank i would change. whether it should be done at the end of year budget process is open to debate. one thing is being pushed will be harmful, conservative people, market oriented people, which is to repeal the pushout rules. which requires a lot of speculative, to be pushed outside of insured banks. you cannot use insured deposits to support that kind of activity. the more we can combine the use of deposits and force activity outside that -- that's a good thing. let the market decide. neil: i'm sorry. aren't they saying about the law that it doesn't

really do that, that it shields a lot of big banks, anyway, that too big to fail still exists and fannie mae and freddie mac aren't apart of it. >> fannie mae and freddie mac don't have insured deposits. whether we want insured deposits -- neil: you're looking through that prism. it's to be understood. very crucial role. in its aggregate, they're saying it's just overreach. >> well, look, i would go the other way. i would go full stop and move it out of the insured banks. it's not that it will happen. it will be done in a broker affiliate that does not have insured deposits supporting it. that's a good thing from a market perspective. the market decides how much resource, how much financing will be allocated to that. what the pricing will be. unlike insured deposits. there's no discipline

with that. there are costs involved. the more we can narrow the types of activities, i think that's a good thing, a something i hope that market based conservatives would support. neil: those conservatives think the law goes too far. warren is on record saying she likes the law. doesn't go far enough. she's a possible challenger to hillary of the nomination. what do you think of her and whether she should run? >> well, i know her well. and i don't think she wants to run. i don't think she's thinking in those terms. i think she has some fairly reasonable views on financial reform and wants that to become the national debate. she's knowledgeable on these issues. she is an important voice to counter some of these issues. i think her focus will be on trying to get these issue to have a higher prom unanimous in promine debate. i don't see her running. neil: a lot of people want her

too. her premise is that the little guy is getting screwed. she said that's something we haven't heard enough from hillary clinton. do you think that gets to be a big theme in the next presidential election whether the little guy is being fairly treated in the financial markets? >> yeah. yeah. i think that is a real issue, about whether the government is run for the broad population. and it's not just financial services. there's a lot of special interests lobbying. crony capitalism that goes on. and i think conservatives, grassroots conservatives don't like that any more than populous progressives. we want a government where it's limited. to help people, it's the aged, children. not big corporate interests. and you see that manifestation in other ways like the opposition to extend continuation. i agree with that.

why do we need the xm bank? why do they need taxpayer subsidies. this is a big issue on both sides of the aisle. i hope the candidates talk about it too. neil: trust me. they will. thank you very much. >> you bet. thank you. neil: well, the next president won't have the guts to reverse what this president has done. this president just said it. the proof that maybe, just maybe he didn't quite need it.

neil: anyway, it's time for neil's spiel. i love that graphic. every time i see it. here's what has me spiegel. take a look. obama: i think any future administration that tried to punish people for doing the right thing, i think, would not have the support of the american people. it's true that theoretically a future administration could do something very damaging. it's not likely politically that they reverse everything that we've done. neil: so what you're saying, mr. president, is that only you have the guts to do the right thing, and those other guys don't know a thing. gutless, clueless,

feckless, godless, and only you, sir, on the side of the angels and the american people. really? only you have the guts to do what is right? that is assuming that bypassing congress because you can't get your way counts as guts and freezing millions of deportations that might be in the constitution's way proves that you are brave. and republicans some day reversing that, not brave? precisely because they're not nearly so brave and that they're wimps anyway because they want have the guts to follow through because the american people don't want them to follow through. really? first, while we're on the subject of guts, take it from me, i have a big one. i'm talking gut. you're punting on the crocodile thing of yours after the midterms doesn't exactly strike me as braveheart. and refusing to accept any responsibility for what has been a

disasterrous health care rollout doesn't sound lincolnesque. those without stones should charge the other side without lacking them. you're kind of saying that about people who elected them. it's not republicans whose threats you have to fear, it's voters who demanded a month ago that they follow up on them. surely, you're not saying those voters lack guts. because last time i looked, they knocked the guts out of everything you pushed. i saw the midterm results and so did katrina pearson. either he did and he's ignoring it. and he did and he figured what the hell i'll keep saying it. >> well, out of the mouth of the messiah himself. here's the thing, if he had so much guts, why did he wait until after

the midterm elections to pass the amnesty plan. he didn't. he continued to wait. this is the same president who is the laughing stock all over the world because he doesn't have guts. neil: the same amnesty that no republican or future administration would try to reverse this without putting an alternative in -- i'm paraphrasing because he or she wouldn't have the guts to do it and it's already done. what's done is an executive order, a piece of paper, that stands on shaky constitutional grounds. it would take guts to let that go through, i think, not to challenge it. >> well, absolutely. i mean, we seem to forget the fact that there are already immigration laws on the books. our system isn't broken. it's ignored. so it won't take too much guts to go out to the american people and say, you know what, we'll do what has already been passed by the congress, which is already constitutional, to secure the border. neil: where do you think this ultimately goes?

because he was sort of hanging on to the idea that republicans will never want to repeal my health care law because they have nothing in its place. even though there were four different bills. you can argue if they were good bills or not. he's more or less saying, they're far more comfortable, that is republicans, yammering on about me than doing anything on their own. how do republicans avoid that label? >> well, i think it will show when the 2016 primaries kick off, there are plans out there. there are republicans who have good, sound health care policy to put out for the american people to choose. what he's used to are these squishy establishment republicans who want to capitulate. he's not looking at the republicans on the scene today that we've seen out there who just whooped his policy in the last election cycle. these are the republicans that will step up and lead with good sound policy and they'll get rid of his unconstitutional actions. neil: all right. the whole braveheart

thing gets risky. that's just me. katrina, thank you very much. katrina pearson. meanwhile, from good will ambassador, that is not me saying that. that is a top hollywood producer saying that. the smack down after the sony hack down after this.

neil: all right. it's no longer just social security numbers. now it's smack talk. more than just customer info leaking out at sony. so did staff emails. to jolene on why angelina jolie somewhere might not be too happy. >> not too kind. more unpleasant details are emerging. check this out. the telegraph reports part of the leak included an email exchange between movie producer scott rudin. rudin apparently doesn't think highly of actress

angelina jolie saying in an email exchange regarding upcoming projects, quote, i'm not destroying my career over a minimally talented spoiled brat. and rudin doesn't stop there. he also goes after megan. the 28-year-old daughter of -- she produced american hustle. according to a leaked email, rudin called her a bipolar 28-year-old lunatic. ellison wasn't going to take this. she responded this morning in jest, bipolar 28-year-old lunatic. i always thought of myself as more he can he centric. it revealed the emails of more than 40,000 males. that's in addition to salary data. of course, it is in

serious jeopardy across-the-board. a class-action lawsuit by former employees may soon be in the works. now, cyber security experts say sony may have been hacked in retribution of the film "the interview." it's a comedy in which the characters are asked to assassinate kim jong-un. the fbi says it doesn't have enough information to attribute the attacks to the koreans. the fbi meeting with sony to give them more training on cyber security practices. neil: yeah, like don't write anything. (?) okay. thank you very much. to the fox biz all-stars on how this might be a warning to all of us. be careful. tracy byrnes. tracy. >> so anything you send in emails, just presume it's on a billboard in times square. everything we say is out there. and everything you've said is probably still

out there as well. neil: we forget that. >> i have one simple rule. if you're not going to say it to somebody's face, don't put it in an email. in hollywood, so many big egos -- neil: i tell them to their face. lizzie. >> the thing about these emails, they are so long. they're like -- neil: i noticed that. why not just say angelina jolie sucks. but no. on and on. >> on and on. and the insanity and the rampaging spoiled ego of angelina jolie. all she does is make giant movie bombs. i mean, remarkable emails. this is the most colorful part of the sony hack. >> she's laughing all the way to the bank. she could care less. >> it's cool they have code names. we should come up code names. >> what would neil's code name be?

>> sarah michelle geller. they're creative code names. i give them credit. neil: i wonder if it will make these stars -- i'm surprised they get 50,000 to this spendable movie. >> steve jobs just lost the movie. (?) this is the subject -- well, it was the subject of the emails. a lot of fighting going on behind the scenes. >> sylvester stallone doesn't even need to speak. he's popular. neil: i mean, holy cow. >> we think of that. we say that. we don't practice that, do we? >> no. unfortunately, think about the text you've said about other people. you wouldn't wake up in the morning knowing --it the truth. you have to think about what you put out there in the public. what you said, tracy, is

the truth. that no matter what you put out there, assume that somebody else will see it. it's pretty obvious. neil: she calls this a book? what i meant was, it was bigger than a book. it was much bigger than a book. >> i don't believe anything in emails anyway. >> how about on twitter? >> i don't care. you can say what you want. i really don't care. no, i let things go. neil: i let nothing go. i remember slights from 1972. >> it's the sad state of society that we're brave behind our apparatus. neil: so sony just exposed it all. these executives are triple turning ways around this. we left out doozies there. >> they blasted adam sandler there too. he's movies are formulaic they're looking to hire stars like tom cruz.

you think those stars will walk in their door when they see those emails. neil: money. of course, they will. >> call me formulaic any day of the week, just pay me. i'm as formulaic as they come. neil: you're shameless. that doesn't apply to me. i'm telling networks everywhere. leave it to ralph to get protesters to stop. his simple answer to solving a heated crisis next.

>> i'm maria bartiromo. oil in the 60-dollar a barrel range. spirit airline will tell us what that means for the consumer. how your ticket price might change. then former home depot ceo talking about business and 2015. opening bell begins tomorrow 9:00 a.m. eastern on the fox business network. neil: a week of rage because of the lack of a wage?

rallies picking up steam, but ralph on what might calm everyone down. your argument is lift the minimum wage. explain. >> 30 million americans were making less today than 1968, adjusted for inflation. that's a lot of people. and they have relatives. they have kids. not enough to put food on the table at $7 a federal minimum. hr1010 has been before congress for a long time. only a couple of days they can get it through. huge majority support in this country. 80% of the people. including mitt romney. rick santorum. tim -- neil: you're right. there is support for that. i don't know whether the magic is 1010. a lot of people say that beats the $25 that some protesters have been pushing for. not the ferguson and new york city protesters. that's a race issue. but those who have been

pushing for higher minimum wage. you're saying that this would calm everybody down because these riots are born of economic want. is that basically it? >> obviously if you're unemployed, underemployed, and you're desperate and can't pay the rent, it gets you out in the streets. there's a strong argument for being in the streets. and for the most part the protests have been very disprin disciplined and peaceful. because you have to do something about the few police that are out of control. neil: but you look at how bad they got it in ferguson. you're not saying that was calm and respectful, are you? >> look at the mr. garner and the 12-year-old boy. you need to equip these police with these cameras. reform the grand jury so there's some court appointed cross-examiner in this secret room. as a judge in new york once said, a grand jury

can indict a ham sandwich. in 2010, neil, the federal prosecutors saw 162,000 indictments. they got them all except for 11 cases. neil: you could make the argument, if you want to apply tougher grand jury arguments, if they don't reflect the real will of the people, you could apply the same to all the whites who have been attacked by blacks. i mean, why are we making this disproportionately racial. >> that's what's in the headlines. neil: but the headlines are wrong. i'm not forgiving what happened in these instances. we're replaying and rechecking history. especially when the same media that has this out of control headlines ignores a young bo boz any an woman was attacked by black youth. about three months after a new jersey white was shot to death.

(?) all i'm saying is, across-the-board then. >> justice should be colorblind. neil: but it's not? >> no, it's not. neil: and the media portrayal doesn't. right? the other media isn't doing its job. >> there's a lot of things going on in the slums that are brutal and not reported at all. neil: true. >> so we need to get to the generic aspect of this. reform the grand jury. neil: but i didn't want to go so far. you picked a nerve with me there. on the basic issue of improving and heightening the minimum wage, i don't know how much higher the minimum wage should be. i think it should be higher. i think it should be indexed to inflation. so we can take it out of the national debate. you're saying an improved economic environment would lesson the likelihood for these

severe responses. >> protests on the minimum wage. certainly. let's face it catching up with 1968 inflation. that would be under just $11 an hour. neil: you're okay with 10.10. we can play these games back and forth whether it was '68. if it was 1973, it would be different. >> let the workers form a union and negotiate and collect the bargaining with walmart and target and mcdonald's. neil: you always speak your mind. unlike a lot, you stick to your guns. you're not all over the map. ralph, thank you very much. well, jesse jackson is out for racial justice right now. at apple?

neil: in tonight's biz blitz, for goodell bad timing. the nfl commissioner owning up to his mistakes as he unveils a new policy for the league. rob, i was saying on this very show yesterday, i'm all for saying i goofed. i screwed up. we want to do it. i didn't say to do it like months later. you know what i mean? but it's done. >> he had the opportunity to turn this negative into a positive, the minute it happened. but he chose to put profits before morality. that was his choice -- neil: you're charging that now. it looks that way. >> it certainly seems that way. if you look at the facts, they had this video several weeks. the silver lining is now they have a policy. >> that's not the silver lining. the silver lining will be when they follow through. you can say what you want to say, you can surmise, come up with

grandois plans, if you don't have the follow through -- teams to have make the final say on these things as well. until we see someone actually punished for doing something wrong, no, it means nothing. >> i hear what you're saying. this is like putting whitewash on a rotten fence. because when you look at what the nfl's actions have been, it's been about silencing or blaming the victim. it's been about manipulating law enforcement. neil: should he have resigned? >> he's not the guy for the job. i'm sorry. yeah, the nfl is the most powerful league in terms of money -- neil: as long as those team members are behind him and they are. >> because the team owners get to dominant and manipulate the conferences the next time an nfl player punches someone. >> i don't think he'll get fired. they have record profits. neil: what about better late than never? >> there's something to be said -- >> and he's got one shot

at this. the next -- next problem that comes across his desk, he has to handle it brilliantly. we're all still watching. the nfl is not the problem. the problem is the follow through. punish when you have to punish. neil: jesse jackson. in silicon valley, holding a rally outside apple headquarters to encourage a more diverse work force. >> it's pretty diverse. when you look at the work force 35% or thereabouts of people of color. 10 percent are african-americans. the issue here is -- a lot of asian-americans. and i'll tell you something, i'm wondering where are the protests outside general motors. two-thirds of general motors work force has been outsourced overseas. neil: as apple. >> we know that about apple for a long time. neil: good point. >> the inroads, it's

pressure on facebook and google as well. >> but that's the thing, it's misdirected yet again. you look at twitter, google, facebook, around 40% of their work force is considered minority. asian, black, hispanic or anything other than white. neil: we tend to focus on the minority, we automatically think african-american. >> why aren't we protesting for these people? we're at 40% already. almost 50% at yahoo. >> jesse jackson is speaking for the black community. let's look at the tests that were given, the advanced tests were given. only 3% were black that took the computer science test. if we have an issue with certain races not getting certain positions, it has to start with education. you have to educate those minorities. >> you have school choice in mississippi. you're talking about a bottom up view. not a top down.

>> you know, what's so annoying, look at this, the federal government is forcing companies including linkedin, ebay and apple to file demographic reports with the federal government to show the breakdown -- neil: how about the president's cabinet. the white house staff. on and on we go. >> the fact they have to now file these reports to show the demographics of their work force is astonishing. >> that's the best point of the whole show. educate from the bottom up. that fixes your domestic issues. that fixes your job issues. it fixes everything if you just -- neil: can i say something politically incorrect. i think this is a shakedown. i think this is trying to get money from apple and all these other companies -- >> definitely. neil: -- so they can say, reverend, get off our ass. >> i think large corporations should be more responsible than small businesses. >> why go into apple? here's the thing, jesse

jackson is a phenomenal civil rights leader. he also runs a nonprofit. he has to look like he's doing something. i'm sorry. >> he's riding on in the coattails -- >> shareholders want you to hire the best people. color doesn't matter. neil: but company pr staffs want to get problems off their back. we shall see. the 78-year-old woman who wants to run away with me and the college co-eds who want to have their way with me. such a deal. what's the deal? i'm telling you, all on basic cable, next. stay tuned. t and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of r mutual funds beat

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once there was a girl who even in her laundry room. with downy unstopables for long-lasting scent. and infusions for softness. she created her own mix, match, magic. downy, wash in the wow. >> "what's the deal, neil?." >> what is the deal with republicans signing onto trillion dollar plus spending bill and lame-duck congress and won't be around much longer? jim via hotmail --

shut down the government. watching d.c. is flat-out destroying the country i knew and leaving nothing for grandkids. sarah writes this is supposed to be compromise? nuts, just nuts. didn't republicans win in the midterm, what were they wearing, disguises? which makes conservatives all the angrier that gop money types are narrowing 2016 presidential choices to the likes of jeb bush, mitt romney and chris christie. paul in california each would have qualified as good democrats a dozen or so years ago. hillary wins, swear her in now. my god. natalie via aol, americans do not want another bush in the white house, they'll run the other way. americans want a new direction. no to christie, too moderate. caroline in boston. no all, ones a retread and the other's a bush.

no thanks. tea party types would not be happy with bush, romney or christie. they're called rhinos for a reason, extant species of odd towed ergo lytes, and few survive outside parks and reserves. well, yeah, that's exactly what i said. what? anyway, speak of awkward species, gary lumps me in there with them. neil cavuto is one of the reasons for the dissatisfied feeling i have for fox. you have the most annoying and constant habit of interrupting guests. it is a total turnoff. here's what you can do, turn the channel. jesse, you're a big fat condescending -- and i bet you smell, too. i haven't gotten that one. they try to get my guests on point, thanks for interviewing

and getting them to answer the dang question. you are among the best because of this. thank you for that. there is l.a. who is smitten. cavuto thanks for being one of the few remaining americans, in all areas i kiss your feet. i ask you to stand in line. which brings me to the 8-year-old elma in oregon. listen to what she has to say. i am old enough to be your mother. let me tell you something, mr. cavuto. you are one hot feisty little stud muffen. do you hear me? i do. don't listen to the nasty folks, you're my dream affair. so too shirley and barbara, self-proclaimed college roommates who find me quite hot, truth be told. we love a man who stands for something, could you be our