today retailers continue to move lower. [closing bell ringing]. >> a name like best buy was down 15%. liz: the bells ring on wall street. let's take a look and see how stocks finish up. not exactly the lows of the session but down 102 points for the dow. it is nasdaq which is blasting through the floor here because earlier today the low of the session was 66. in the last about 11 minutes came down 68 points for the moment. the russell also getting hurt to the tune of 21 points sliced off. david: "after the bell" starts right now. david: breaking down today's busy action. we have imperion wealth management's kimberly foss. who says don't be scared by the volatility. she will tell you who you to use it to your advantage. lance roberts tells us why he thinks low oil prices actually hurt the economy in the long run.

mark sebastian from cme. get some specifics what happened with oil today. it did pop up. it looked like it found a floor. it was up over 50. what happened? it ended up down over 4%. >> yesterday's move was primarily a short squeeze on the back of one big order, is swept a lot of traders out. once oil kind of lost its momentum people started jumping back in and started selling it. that is where weakness comes in. there is not a lost strength for oil. it makes up everything back basically on a short squeeze. liz: look, intel numbers are out. we'll work through them because we want to make sure everybody gets the correct numbers here but this is a dow component and the dow components are looking at the worst worst losing strength in about three months. kimberly, as we look at intel, it is kind of flat on the session in the after-market. as we work on the numbers, tell us about being in equity right

now when headlines out of switzerland and their currency can affect what happens here. >> liz, we're short term cautiously optimistic about the markets and long term fully invested. this is the greatest path of prosperity being in the markets. but if with the central bank and surprise news out of the swiss and geopolitical issues and there is a lot of uncertainty out there and causes a lot of anxiety in the markets. the volatility, guys, volatility is back and just get used to it. david: we're going to get you more details about the intel numbers but, lance, i have to talk about oil for a second because you say, a lot of people say, look, all in all it is good for the economy because it puts all that cash in the economy. consumers can use it. they didn't so much in december. you don't think so, you think it is a net bad thing for the economy, why? >> no, not bad. it is net zero. here is the reason. you saw in in retail sales

numbers. if i spend $10 less at gas pump and spend dollars over at the flower shop. i didn't increase money i spent. i just shifted where i spent it. only way you increase consumption is debt increases through credit cards or incomes. unfortunately we're not seeing incomes go up. at this point when we're looking at this, the data proves it out. if you look year-over-year retail sales and oil prices on year-to-year basis they track closely with each other. but mostly -- liz: can i interrupt you? so sorry. we have intel numbers squared away here. lori rothman has them. lori. >> hi, guys. for intel the headline it was a record year, for the full year 2014 intel reports $55.9 billion in revenue in. terms of the fourth quarter, revenue was a beat. 74 cents a share versus 66 cents. liz, you reported whisper number was 68 cents. 74 clearly beats that.

revenue right in line, 14-point$000 million. that is 6% annual gain. sequentially the story is pcs. there was a lot of reporting that pc sales really stablized and intel is benefiting from that, but sales to the pc industry from intel did fall about 3% according to this latest earnings report. i will continue to crunch numbers if i see more headlines. liz: we need to tell everybody in just a minute, first on fox business, chief financial officer, stacy smith. david, a very attractive component of the stock has been the dividend and intel basically announcing increase of cash dividend 96 cents a share on annual basis. that becomes more attractive. david: what is interesting, a lot of companies are pulling back a little. they had given out so much dividend last couple years. as profits are pulling out. intel clearly not going to do it. lance, you learned your lesson. you start with the most important thing. you don't bury the lead because

you were cut off but i will give you a second chance. you are about to say the most important thing about oil prices. go ahead. >> the most important thing about energy in general for every job which is high wage-paying jobs in the country in the energy sector, creates 2.8 jobs everywhere else. the impact, net deep impact from loss of jobs in the energy space is probably greater than what we see in savings on consumption side. david: that sound like a net negative. go ahead, liz. liz: the big story today was of course currencies and that needless to say involved the swiss franc, basically floating freely but the country has been keeping a cap. sorry. hold on for a second. never mind. i'm sorry. mark, i will jump over to you. the swiss frank. david: definitely woke everybody up in chicago in the pits there -- franc. i know you know that seems a little obscure but not to our viewers watching. tell us why.

>> this is the small earthquake that turns into typhoon or tsunami. it was just a black swan type of event in the swiss, in switzerland today. stock market down 10%. the swiss franc rallied against everything. why did the swiss do this? here is what i think is important. the swiss did it because the minister basically came out and said, you know what? the euro will do qe. we can't fight the peg. euro will rally. we might as well let it happen now. the currency made a massive move. it moved 15% today! that is massive. what does that mean? qe in europe. what does that mean for the u.s. that defacto is increase in interest rates. you can throw out any type of interest from increase from the fed in 2015. i mean i said it many times. you know, central bankers keep to their rate forecast like i keep to my new year's resolution, not very well.

david: hold on a second. mark, i get your point. but, kim, the point here is really what mark suggested. once you take the lid off the pressure cooker as the swiss did because the swiss essentially had a price control on their interest rates, which is the same thing we've been doing. once you take the lid off it explodes. it went up 15% today. lord knows if we keep the lid on for another full year, won't that be bad news down the line for us? >> absolutely, short-term gain, long-term pain. my office and clients hate to hear that. but the bottom line is, you're absolutely right. the longer feds keep interest rates artificially low the more pressure is building. that is not good for the markets long term but that's where investors should be very prepared in keeping their allocation to where they're commensurate to stay in the market with that volatility of the market because in the end, david, that is exactly where the one percenters make all the wealth.

1%ers made 40% more than the rest of us. liz: riding the waves. kimberly foss, lance roberts and mark sebastian. david: as we were saying the swiss franc surged against the euro after the swiss national bank scrap ad three-year-old cap of the rate. causing turmoil in a lot of global markets. liz: we have the ntl capital cofounder, i got excited to bring you in a little early because this story really gyrated over the markets. overnight the swiss national bank announces we're done. we know the european central bank and they will meet and they will add a stimulus. why keep the currency hemmed in. it hurt a lot of people. >> 15% move. but from high to low it moved 38% which is unheard of when it comes to currency. no one can figure out why they did this way. why didn't they come in with a measured move or lowered the peg. but completely pull out the peg

where it was really roiled the markets and put a lot of people not having any trust in the -- liz: they just did it. >> nobody trusts central banks anymore. i don't know if i go to bed -- david: i have another analogy. is this first pop in the bubble wrap that central banks have been putting around their markets to protect them. >> whatever you want to call it. this is it. david: why didn't the markets, go 100 point loss on the dow is significant. of course the nasdaq was down for other reasons but why didn't the market react a little more than it did today to this. >> maybe they're waiting for next shoe to drop. david: so what will the next shoe be? >> who knows. it could be europe, japan or here in the u.s. is this looking at, foreshadowing for when we start unwounding fed balance sheet. it will not end well. i think this is the first sign of this bubble. liz: i don't want overstate it, tomorrow people may say, liz, the swiss franc was yesterday.

what is today? if we saw what happened in switzerland today, could you throw out a wild guess because you live and breathe currencies, what the next market gyrate tore will be? >> when the ecb meets next week we know something, the euro will move. the euro will continue to get weaker and weaker and weaker. maybe we see parity soon enough in the euro and that could be the next move we wait for. liz: great. we can go shopping. david: a lot of americans going over to europe to shop. >> exactly. david: what about goods? that is the real question. the reason the swiss had a cap on their own currency for so long because they wanted to give their own manufacturers a chance to compete. the stronger your currency, the harder to sell your stuff overseas. >> right. david: won't that be the same for us as the dollar continues to increase against the euro? >> it will but we have more trading partners. the swiss are a different situation. their biggest trading partner is european countries. david: maybe it will be contained? >> it could be, it could be. but bigger economy we have, more trading partners where our

economy is humming along a little better than europe where the swiss are. so i think a strong dollar is only a benefit to us for now. david: great to see you again, thank you so much for explaining thing. appreciate it. liz: thank you. as we mentioned intel reporting earnings a moment ago. look at the stock, it is down about 2 1/2% right now. what disturbed investors considering intel had a record year for 2014? we take you inside of the numbers in just a moment in a "first on fox business" interview. intel cfo stacy smith is is with us live. david: a stunning new report that shows that more businesses are closing in america than opening. is american entrepeneurship dying? what can we do to reverse the trend? our panel takes that on. liz: he grew up in a small town and did well. country music legend vince gill is with us live to discuss his new venture to revital lies small towns and cities across the country.

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david: country legend, one of my

favorite voice the business. david: vince gill, has partnered with one of the country's largest communication companies to revitalize small towns and communities across the u.s. liz: this is a great partnership. we're here to tell you about it. they will give away $10 million to help small communities who enter a contest to prove they can grow economically. with us now, kathleen abernathy, frontier communications senior vice president and former fcc commissioner, along with vince gill, 20-time, 20 times? nicky minage ain't got nothing on you, vince. >> i'm lucky. liz: thrilled to have you here. >> thank you. liz: people would think, oh, he is lending his face but you're lending your heart and name to this. talk about the competition and linking up with frontier. >> i really like the spirit of this thing with our partners. they will do go out there and do a kind thing based on something

positive. i like that. i like the fact that i'm not really trying to sell something. i have never been the endorsement type guy. i come from a small town. i was born in norman, oklahoma. grew up in the city. my mother grew up on a farm and so did my father. that mind-set is very much engrained in me. we'll want to do what we can not to forget these people. they're the backbone much this country. they feed this country. in times of need they're the ones that come and serve our military first and i just, i love the mind-set, the common sense of those kind of people. so this is just a way to do some positive things and some kind things and get people to believe in where they live and lift up where they live. david: well it is hard to argue with any of that, vince, but this is what you're up against. 60% of the rural communities in america, like the one you group up in, like the ones you're trying to support now, have shrunk in the year 2013.

60% that's what you're up against. realistically do you think you can turn those stats around? >> well i think the point is to try, you know. if you don't try, then what is the point? if you're defeated before you get started i don't understand. that i think when you do something like a charitable event, somebody says, how much did you raise, i go, i don't care. i tried. we do the best we could. and so that's the point. it is to, i think those kind of people, with the way their spirit is, they're going to, they're going to be willing to jump on board and fight and make this better for them. >> there is -- liz: let's talk about the competition, kathleen and how it is going to work. we know that the pot, the pot is about 10 million in prize money. >> it is. liz: but how can communities apply and then what do they need to prove? that they have got an economic plan? >> yes. this is all about tapping into the tenacity and the resiliency of rural america and giving them the tools to make a difference in their own community.

so, we've got america's best communities.com is the website where you go on to apply. and you essentially say, we have a plan and vision for our community. you put together an application. we'll narrow it down to 50 communities in march, april, time frame. and then we'll give them seed money, 50,000, in seed money, to help really refine those plans. we'll partner them with adopt a community companies that are also going to mentor and support these communities. the whole goal is to provide tools and opportunities for these communities to change the lives of people living there, to dream big and deliver on that dream. david: kathleen, you're a former fcc commissioner. i have to ask you because the president just gave a speech yesterday, he wants to put the fcc in charge of a lot of stuff involving the internet that your company and other companies like yours provide. do you think that's a good idea,

to have this federal intervention, get the feds more involved in the services, particularly internet services you provide? >> surprisingly do not think that is good idea or perhaps not surprisingly. i find even when i was an fcc commissioner that where something is working you don't mess with it. and the internet is incredibly successful. companies are delivering broadband across all of the country, and as a company, we look at the regulatory framework that exists today and it deliver as lot of value to americans. so, from our perspective, what is it that is broken that needs fixing? we just don't see that. liz: frontier communications is doing good things with vince gill. congratulations to both of you, kicking off america's best communities. good luck to you. thank you so much. david: vince, i wish i could see the angels faces when they hear your sweet voice sing. >> thank you, brother. tell i-man i said hi. david: will indeed. tell charlie daniels we said hi.

liz: intel as we mentioned, reports record full-year revenue in 2014. shares falling slightly in after-hours trades, after rallying more than 40 percent over the last year. coming up, don't move. we've got intel's chief financial officer stacy significant in a "first on fox business" interview. he will tell you first what do they plan to do for investors and did they hit their 40 million tablet chip sales? david: also falling rates sparked a revival in the mortgage market. that's good news. applications soaring nearly 50% last week. so why did homebuilders take a huge hit today? our panel weighs in in just a moment. ♪

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liz: intel, intel shares falling slightly in after-hours trading

following fourth quarter earning despite reporting a record year in 2014. earnings per share coming at 74 cents per share versus estimate of 66 cents. that's a beat. revenue $14.7 billion. "first on fox business" interview, stacy smith, intel's chief financial officer. great to see you, stacy. >> good to be back. liz: right off the bat, bryan krzanich made a hugely bold prediction start of 2014, we will ship 40 million tablet chips in 2014. i've been following that. looked like you were on. did you meet it. >> we were are largest merchant supplier of tablet silicon. liz: that is amazing. how many did you sell? >> 46 million. jenna: 46 million. >> that include at tom based

tablets. and surface pro. >> do you have a number for 2015 that you can promise? >> 2015 we're moving focus, expect growth from that number. we think we grow from a large percentage of the market. the focus of 2015 is moving toward driving profitability of that segment. we talked in the november investor meeting we expect to improve the segment byhundred million dollars year on year. that is where the focus is shifting. liz: focus is shifting there. you guys were able to pull this off, 46 million tablet chips in part due to subsidies you offer in the tablet market to help you reach the number. how, when will you reduce subsidies that you're not dependent on them? do you have a plan? >> as we speak the new products we're bringing into the market in the first quarter of 2015, the bill of materials that goes around those tablets will be

competitive. that is our sophia generation of those products. the bill of material subsidies we were providing to help offset cost differences to do with our architecture. they were cost differences with the tablet. we'll start seeing those reducing as we work through 2015. liz: to your biggest segment, pcs, one year ago it was nobody is buying pcs anymore. put a nail in the coffin then people started picking up activity there, buying pcs again. can you quantify for us how real the pc pickup is? is there short term or long-term demand concerns? >> we saw reasonable growth in the pc segment in 2014. we're projecting that, that that segment is kind of flattish as we go into and 2015 from a unit standpoint. so we're not predicting really fast growth rates but it certainly isn't dead. it is circa 300 million units of a market. we're driving a lot of

innovation there. our partners are driving a lot of innovation. we're seeing unit growth. we think we can maintain that next year. what is notable even in a world where the pc market is relatively flat we can grow the company. we can grow revenue and we can grow our earnings. liz: i'm not sure that the internet of things will be at the top of the growth engen here but you're making a huge push into washes. what is the revenue potential and outlook for 2015? >> i think of, i think of wearables as being a part of the broader category of products called the internet of things. as you know we're one of largest players in that market. our business there crossed well over $2 billion. it grew 19% in 2014 relative to the prior year and we're expecting growth in 2015 in that same kind of ballpark. so 20% revenue growth year on year. i think what is interesting here there is this explosion of clients ranging from pcs to

tablets to the internet of things. we have positioned the company so that we play across that broad range of clients. i think that is wonderful strategic position. liz: i was at ces with fit at this cent. he has the headphones thaw parterred with him. wearable partnership with oakley designed to make smart clothes and -- i think we lost. that we'll try to get him back. they are partnering with oakley. if we get him back, david, do you have a smart shirt with buttons on it that tells you what you are doing with that shirt. david: i think austin could use one of those. smart shirt? new "gallup poll" finding there are more small businesses closing than opening in america. so is entrepreneurship dead or alive in america? also homebuilders getting knocked down today, despite a decline in mortgage rates, and a massive jump in applications. why the disconnect? should you stay away from the housing sector?

our all-star panel on that and more coming right up. ♪ snow. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda.

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at ally bank no branches equalsit's a fact.. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. david: really extraordinary new report from the gallup organization showing there are more businesses closing in america than new businesses opening up. so leads to a question they asked, is american entrepreneurship dieing?

let's bring in our panel. we have phil flynn price futures group senior market analyst. fox business contributor as well. bob rice, tangent management capital partner. and nomi prince. phil, to you, is the american dream dieing? >> no, it hasn't. it is being held back similar to the swiss franc. as soon as they lift it, entrepeneurship in america will explode higher than the swiss franc. i think it has been held back by this country by the administration. what is going on with obamacare. the rules about how many people they can hire. face it we've done everything we can to thwart small businesses in this country. as soon as you lift the reins you will see entrepreneurship come back better than ever. david: nomi, corporate tax rate is clearly too high but too many people in congress are focused just on that, and not enough i think on smaller businesses,

these startups this report focuses on. the club for growth, conservative group that you may not agree on much but you may agree with them on this they say while president obama and democratic leaders may prettier corporate only tax reform, we fee, very hard to explain to americans why their tax rates remain high while corporations see theirs lowered. do you agree? >> i think that's a good point but i also think small business relative are the larger corporations really operate on a separate field on a tax basis, also in terms of getting loans, in terms of getting credit, in terms of ability to finance operations, particularly smaller than one million dollar type size revenue small businesses. so it is important to consider them in a basis to have more progressive taxes for them, to make it easier for them to continue to grow off their smaller revenue bases. also one of the problems that hit small business the fact, access to credit has not reached prerecession levels,

particularly for those size of businesses. david: of course the access for credit is different than the demand for credit. there are a lot of people, bob, small businesses not going out for credit because they can't afford it. by the way the conclusion of this gallup research is, this economy is never truly coming back unless we reverse the birth and death trend of american businesses. you agree? >> i completely agree, 100%. one of the things is also points out what we need to do, something positive to say, we need to help entrepreneurs learn to be entrepreneurs. we have to give them the resources, make capital available to them as we were just talking about. the one of the cool things you point to something positive that's happening in new york city there is digital.nyc, a new website a ecosystem, a portal, helps entrepreneur the learn about the community and meet other entrepreneurs, find working places and classes. david: for all those electronic, a lot of businesses would trade for the electronic gizmos for less regulations. it is very simple.

despite a mortgage rate that keeps falling and huge refinancing boom homebuilders got crushed today as you can see, so why the disconnect, bob? >> so many uncertain fissures developing in this economy right now. this is the whole problem. if you think back to 2007, we saw a big crash in home prices and nobody knew exactly what was going on. the economists kept saying things would be fine and turned out not to be because of unforeseeable circumstances. when you see oil crash like this, people are waiting for the other shoe to drop. david: but, nomi, i want to find out spill about home building. is it a good bet? on one hand people are refinancing in big numbers but on the other hand you see homebuilders being crushed. what is going on? >> to echo what was said earlier there is still a significant amount of uncertainty and what the oil situation has done it made banks less likely to lend and be more conservative in their lending to first-time homebuyers and other types of

homebuyers despite an increase in the applications for refinancing. we've had these rates for six, going on seven years now. so nothing's changed there. but what is changing is, all of these cracks in the economy are connecting so banks will not necessarily extending credit to first-time home buyers. that will affect homebuilders and i don't think this is the time to be investing. david: phil, what do you think? >> i talk to people who do the mortgages all the time. they get a feeling there is huge refinancing boom because rates are low and they feel this will be the last hurrah. they are taking advantage of the latestdown tick and get it before the rates going up. i think that is feeding it. david: we are not finished with our panel. did you see what happened to gold today? really amazing. is it time to go into gold before it goes into 1300 and above? another big billionaire buying

into a newspaper. a mexican billionaire one of the richest people in the world buying into "the new york times" s that a problem? we'll discuss that with the panel. liz. liz: oil slides another 4%, can car weapons weather the storm? who will be the victors once prices stablize? we vin industry insider gary evans. he is magnum hunter resources chairman and ceo. that coming up. ♪

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david: with official inflation stats basically stuck at the flat line, gold, which is traditionallal hedge for higher inflation has been rebounding with a vengance so what is up with that? we're back with phil flynn, bob rice and nomi prinze. i thought if inflation is going nowhere, gold is going know where but instead it is popping. why? >> it is popping because fear is back in the marketplace and gold is regaining stature as safe haven in the economy. look at global central banks. the surprise move by the swiss national bank is not creating more confidence. it is creating less confidence and people are running back to

gold. another point on gold. we saw india cut interest rates. that is usually very bullish for gold because they're big gold consumers. the other thing demandwise, ahead of chinese lunar new year. believe it or not more than anything it's a fear play. fear is back. look at vix, look at bonds. they're running to gold. david: nomi, i am wondering if it says something about central banks? people say look, they have just about reached the point where they have used all the tricks in their bag, they don't have anymore, therefore we have to go back to gold. >> well that's the thing, it has gone on too long. the fed is at the end of its rope in terms of qe. european qe moves will happen january 22nd. it will be a move by ecb to buy more bonds. the swiss said, you know what, we're not going to be part of that. that creates dislocation. that creates a need for less risky type of commodity, less risky type investment and that is gold. last year was put down a little bit because the dollar was still

strong. there were rumors whether the fed will raise rates or not. that is not necessarily going to happen. the dollar is where the dollar is and gold is both a safe haven and good investment as other precious metals. david: bob, we're only 40 bucks away from $1300 gold, will we get there. >> i think we probably do. this move is building a good long while. this isn't a one-day move. it is coming because of fear about global central banks, absolutely. david: let's move on to something that happened to new york, but a concern about a lot of people in the country. mexican billionaire, carlos slim, one of the richest guys in the planet. he is upped is stake in "the new york times." he is now the times chief stockholder. nomi, your folks are in mexico. you have a lot of stake in mexico, don't you? >> my dad is down there. i go there quite a lot. it is tough, carlos slim owns most communications lines there. he is very much about cost cutting. a little bit less about product

innovation and development. that is what he did at "new york times" when he lent them money in 2009. this continued sort of evolution of that is now him having more share participation in the "new york times," wanting probably to do more of the same but there is not really a lot less to do. david: bob, there are fears about some people he will have editorial control. from my perspective i think he might help the editorial -- i think they need help with the editorial policy at "new york times." >> they may or may not. what he is looking at is making money. he is doing this through an option exercise. he is buying $12.50 stock for $6.50. this is a warren buffett kind of play. david: he is interested in the money. he doesn't care about the priest teen or editorial? >> he might like that too but mostly it is the money. david: phil, we saw mr. bezos buy into the "washington post." he didn't take everything from the post. >> right. david: i don't get a sense he is really changed the paper at all. does ownership matter in terms of editorial content?

>> i can only hope so. the only reason mr. slim would be buying into "the new york times" because he can't read english, let's face it. if he has been reading some of those editorial columns, what planet are they on? listen, has to be a positive. this is a sinking newspaper right now. not only are they losing money, they have lost a lot of credibility over the last couple years. they need shake hupp, passion and new direction. david: nomi, mexico used to be primarily controlled by the government, most of the communication there. they have a sense of independence. you have new newspapers like reform in mexico city. you have a set of -- sense of independence you didn't have before. will that inform carlos's slim's decision to be chief shareholder of the times. >> i think it will. david: that is for nomi. >> more about a financial move to him and looking to do the same things he did to lend them money to say if there is way to increase revenue in an environment where digital media is many about more prevalent

than the old print media, "new york times" or other papers were involved in. i just don't see him changing content. david: nomi prince, thank you very much. good to see you again, phil. bob rice as well. good panel. thanks, guys. liz? liz: david, do you to know how companies survive during big oil collapses? why not ask somebody who as been through three of them while at the helm of a oil company. ceo of magnum hunter resources joining us next. do you have whiplash from all the market volatility this week. what could we see tomorrow? we're bringing backfill flynn, giving you a proverbial neck brace to tell you the number one thing to watch that could impact your money. >> hi, everyone. i'm gerri willis. coming up on my show at the top of the hour, a new white house plan for paid sick time. will it actually decrease everyone's wages? we'll talk about it with former massachusetts senator scott brown. that is one of the big stories

coming up on "the willis report" in just a few minutes. you be rey anytime the you be rey moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial.

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liz: if you want to get insight into the current collapse in oil prices you should ask somebody who has been through it before. david: our next guest has. he was an executive at a major oil company during the 1980s oil collapse and again during the 2008 collapse. remember that one? went from 145 down to 35?

how does he see this playing out? gary evans, magnum hunter resources. this is extraordinary what we've been going through but remember back in 2008 the drop from 145 to under $40 was even more spectacular. are we going through something like that or has oil now bottomed out from your experience. >> disconnected. we're disconnected. david: oh, all right. well, it looks like, we're going to try to get him back. liz: let's go to phil flynn, standing by as well. david: let's ask him the same question. what do you think about that? you were right there and liz and i were talking you to you in 2008 when oil collapsed. will you see that kind of move here? >> i think the market is consolidates. 44 was a major support point and we're bouncing off that. it is looking very tenuous in the global central banks and economy and inflation whether we break down to the 2008, 2009 lows or they will bounce back.

david: you can see it on the chart. look at one where the green goes down to the red. that was 2008 between the summer of 2008 and december 2008. >> yeah, exactly. in december 2008 i think they hit, well, rebounded. only thing that saved oil and made it come back was the first round of qe. got that dollar situation moving lower and brought it back up. but with what is significant here, dade, first we thought it was all about the saudis which it is and the rise in u.s. energy production but oil is leading economic indicator on the selloff now. you talk about dr. copper and some other commodities, it was oil market signaling before the other markets that global growth was really questionable. take a look with we heard today. christine lagarde was giving a speech earlier today, talking about whether this drop in oil will cabinet positive for the economist. she said she really doesn't think it will be enough of a

stimulus to forgo the risks across the globe. she also sent a signal, the fed has to be very careful about raising interest rates especially when we have these deflationary forces around the globe. i think what we're seeing with oil, i think it is significant. liz: we re-established with gary evans. the fact is we see a collapse in oil right now. now i guess the question becomes, back in the '80s it took two decade to recover after the collapse. are you guys expecting it to take that long again? >> i think our industry needs to be prepared for at least a year or two years of lower prices. fortunately for magnum hunter i sold all of our oil properties over 700 million in the last year-and-a-half because i felt like prices were too high. we're predominantly a natural gas company. i have lots of friend and executives obviously in the business. we've been through this before and what happens is, costs come

down, the service costs have gotten exorbitantly high during the last four, five years, with the shale boom. they will come down. we'll lower our cost and we'll still be a vibrant industry, no doubt about that. david: when we're talking about the past, we have to remind everybody, you think what exists now has been around forever but we didn't have shale oil boom back when oil prices collapsed the last couple of types we're talking about. is shale oil responsible for this price drop? in other words or just the saudis continuing to produce a lot? >> it is a combination of the world demand for oil has not been growing like it had historically. then you combined that with russia, combine that with kuwait and iraq and combine that with the shale boom in the united states. so what opec is telling us they don't want to lose anymore market share. they're letting the market go where it goes. right now we have million 1/2, maybe as much as two million barrels of excess supply.

and let me tell you, our production is going to drop. if people think it will stay at this level, we deal with a declining asset every day we come to work. we're producing less oil and gas if we don't drill. the rig count will drop like a rock and production's going to drop. and these shale plays which developed over the last five years, production declines are as much as 50 or 60%. so this will get rebalanced but may take another year-and-a-half to do so. liz: does it surprise you, is it a little interesting, can you say be careful what you wish for? there was a lot of drill, baby drill, calling after 2006, 7, no permits. suddenly things allowed to be permitted. states started permitting opportunities, now oversupply, makes you wonder what will be the force that hopes water or oil find its level once again? >> one thing for sure, lower prices do create greater demand. i mean if you look back in the

'70s and '80s, we had lower prices people bought big suburbans and excursions. people drove more. you will see some of that occur. we're obviously more environmentally friendly today. countries like china and india don't have oil resources they will use this oil opportunity to build their stockpiles, and to continue growing their economies. so it will get in balance. i have no doubt about, because we are dealing with a declining asset. it will take a little it about time. david: gary, we only have about 30 seconds. i'm wondering if all the capital is i doing up on new projects, particularly on shale oil for natural gas and oil? >> well, there is no question the capital markets have seized up. fortunately most of us in the business have got long-term debt, senior notes. we've got, we positioned ourselves with hedges to protect ourselves during this downturn. as you said earlier in the show, not our first rodeo. we've been through this before.

you should learn from past experiences and i think we have. so for our own company we're reducing capital big time. we're telling service companies -- david: we have to leave it that, gary. thank you so much. liz: thanks, gary. will list is next. >> thank you. gerri: hello, everyone, i'm gerri willis. and this is the "willis report," the show where consumers are our business. obama buying votes? >> america does not stand still and neither will i. gerri: piling on free giveaways and freebies and using your money to insure a growing number of americans are dependent on the government. how much do you pay in interest over your lifetime? the eye-popping number in a new report that shows how much of your hard-earned money is going to the bank. going on amazon might not get you the best deal aft all. a new study says amazon manipulates prices making you pay more for less. we'll examine the evidence. it is being called the weight loss