e the founding of this country, until now. that's it for us tonight. join us tomorrow. good night from new york. neil: welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. forget spreading the wealth. how about capping it. president obama wants a 3 million cap on retirement nest and again tax every dollar after that. not only does the government tax the money you earn, now it wants to tax the money well it essentially already taxed. to levy. jared, you say this won't be affected or effective. many will argue since this affects a small percentage of the population, it won't be a big deal. why do you disagree? >> right now it affects roughly 12% of current 401(k) participants. think about this. we have tight controls. we have some of the highest tax dividend tax

rate. we have limits on 401(k) and ira contributions. for the people that bust their butt their whole life. good investment decisions. we now want to punish them and somehow that's going to encourage them to do more for our -- it just doesn't make sense. when you look at the whole thing, i don't see where it will bring in this big amount of income or how it will motivate americans to become prosperous. it's a lose-lose. >> how do you encourage middle americans people not in higher tax brackets to save. most americans do not work in large corporations. they're in smaller environments. they're not after the same kind of opportunities. how do we incentivize those on the lower end of the sprect spectrum. how do we simplify and raise the boat. the other big question this raises, we focus on

women getting higher paid jobs because women are outliving men. neil: you have to rub that in. >> we have to create higher paying jobs. that's what america needs to be focused on right now. neil: you know i'm focusing on the 3 million number. seems like a lot of money today. we were talking about how 20, 40 years, men and women included, it might not be a big deal. that money might not be enough for retirement given inflation and the sheer force of time. so i'm wondering, sort of like, the amt tax that it rears its ugly head sooner and among much wider groups than you think. >> i ran some numbers neil. and it's funny. i was watching mike meyers in that movie where he's like $1 million. thirty years from now

$200,000 is going to be worth about $85,000. and health coverage will cost the average family $43,000 a year. if you factor some of the other costs of living, $200,000 isn't a lot of money. there's a lot more thought that needs to go into this. some great points when we're talking about how do we motivate americans to save and capping them and shutting them off and saying, we'll limit all that you can earn in retirement. it's not the way to do it. >> and while going into your 401(k) to tap that money, that's typically the last thing we want people to do. neil: isn't this pushing people to do just that? >> to jared's point, the money -- if people are facing a job loss and major disability, if they don't have insurance on the downside at times they're tapping that money. lots of unknown questions about it. what's the cap going to be based on?

neil: let's say you'll build a better trap. you'll come up with smarter mice. they'll come out with multiple accounts to avoid this. >> that's the loophole question. there's lots of unanswered questions. the conversation can is bringing social security. should people be getting social security based on their financial needs people were saying. neil: we put a lot more creativity into getting money than saving money. into finding new ways to getting money from folks than saving money. >> that's the biggest problem. that's why we're all here to change the conversation from, hey taxing the american worker and figuring out how to get a money grab out of his or her paycheck. let's look at what's on the other side of the balance sheet. again, that's something you, me, and everyone else on this show would love to pose to washington. that won't happen. another quick point when we're talking about social security that's

another question we all have. twenty, 30 years from now, what will social security look like? again, a lot of folks are looking to the 401(k) and their savings as the cure all. to limit that, i think is very detrimental, especially as a solution to our major deficit. >> the bottom line is only 18% of americans feel very confident about their financial security today. their retirement. neil: i think they lie. i think that's much lower than that. >> i think you're right. so the question is, how can we shift -- raise more boats? neil: i agree with you. the shift has hit the fan. jared, thank you. this government tax grab, whatever you want to call it, is all in the name of helping the poor. the reverend says that's not helping anyone. reverend your point is the more the government -- whatever its intentions, the more it makes things worse. explain. >> neil, obama is engaging in class warfare. this is plan to redistribute wealth. he wants to take away

from those who are working hard and earning their way and give to those who are unwilling to do for themselves. and i think that for obama to kill the american dream because most people such as myself we work hard, we save our money and looking forward to retirement, we don't want to have to worry about having to make it the rest of our life because the government is taxing us. another thing is hurting the young folks because the more you give to them the less they want to do for themselves. they'll look to the government to take care of them. i've seen this happen in the black community over the last 50 years or so. the government is taking care of the young. each generation is getting worse because they don't want -- they don't even have the desire to do it. and that's what barack obama wants. he is turning america into a socialist society. he wants to distribute wealth. he wants people to rely

on the government and not themselves, and he is engaged in doing that. the unfortunate thing neil, is that the republican government is allowing this guy along with the liberal media is allowing him to do this, and i'm just blown away by it. neil: he is setting the agenda. there is hope. his reversal on taxing the 529 plan. he even heard from the left, nancy pelosi, you're hurting the middle class because it turns out it does. but i'm wondering what it will do to people's own impetus to save. if you're trying to say no to government programs, no to government help, no, mr. president, i want to save more myself and my future. and he's saying, no, no, we'll take that away from you so you're more indentured to the government. isn't that sending just the opposite message? isn't that the wrong message? >> it's absolutely the wrong message to send to

americans. especially young americans. because in america, in this great society, one thing i love about this country, you have the freedom to work as hard as you want. make as much money -- well, we used to have it, prior to obama, to make as much money as you want and do what you want and spend your money. the government forcing itself on you will take that away from you and just create a problem by setting up each generation to rely on the government. we now have folks who do not want to look for jobs. i mean, i'm dealing with young people now who are coming out of high school and they're just -- don't want to have to look for jobs because they know that the government will take care of them. and just really not good for society neil. i have to tell you that barack obama knows exactly what he's doing. this is what he wants. he doesn't want us to say, no. he wants to redistribute wealth. and we have a bunch of folks now who are waiting to receive free

stuff. i read a report the other day that at least half 50% of americans are receiving some type of benefit from the government. and that was unheard of when i was growing up. neil: incredible. incredible. reverend -- >> also, neil, i need to share with you. real fast. i don't know if you know or not, this is, quote unquote, black history month. so we've sent out a challenge to black americans to overcome their blackness. get away from accidental their blackness and folks more on color -- i'm sorry. not color but character. when you focus on the physical, you get nowhere in life. you're set up for people like barack obama to use you. but if you focus on character, then you start to grow spiritually, emotionally, and mentally. and you're not set up when people like barack obama is using you for your own personal gain. so get over the

blackness, this so-called black history month, which i disagree with as well. neil: that's a very powerful point. it gets back to what martin luther king said. not the color of your skin the content of your character. we're doing the exact opposite. >> yeah, you can't get anywhere on the physical. you need to focus on the spiritual. neil: i hear you, my friend. thank you very much. it's time to fix the border mess that's running out. why does it seem to me at least that republicans are giving up?

♪ ♪ i'm almost done. [ male announcer ] now you can pay your bill... ♪ ♪ ...manage your appointments... [ dog barks ] ...and check your connection status... ♪ ♪ ...anytime, anywhere. ♪ ♪ [ dog growls ] ♪ ♪ oh. so you're protesting? ♪ ♪ okay. [ male announcer ] introducing xfinity my account. available on any device. neil: border bombshell senator jeff sessions is calling for an investigation. claiming they issued five and a half million permits for immigrants.

which is millions more than congress was allowed to do. executive director mark here on what else he found. what else, mark? that sounds outrageous. how could that happen? >> yeah, this is over five years. they issued five and a half million work permits on top of the regular immigration and guest worker programs that are already there. now, some of these work permits, you know, are sort of normal business, in other words a foreign singer comes here for a concert tour. they get a work permit. i mean, that is conventional routine stuff. but five and a half million, a million of these were given to illegal aliens. people who illegally crossed the border. neil: that doesn't sound accidental to me. maybe i'm just -- >> that's not accidental at all. another half million were given to tourists. people on here on tourist visas. you don't get a tourist visa to work. you go to france, as a tourist, taking a picture of the eiffel

tower, you're not out to get a job. we've given a million and a half of these people who have gotten work permits from obama they either won't tell us or don't know what their status was. were they illegal aliens -- neil: what does that give you? if you have one of these things, what does that grant you? >> you have the right to work legally. which also means you get a social security number. you get a driver's license. neil: well, that's half the battle right there. >> exactly. if you're an illegal alien, you've basically been legalized for all intents and purposes. even if the work permits expire, social securities never expire. you can keep using it with the driver's license you got and no one would know. neil: what if your time is up? whatever time that is granted to these temporary solutions that someone catches you, you know, many months, later years later, what happens to

you? >> that's a good question. i mean, if obama is president, not much. i mean, that's a question of, you know, whether the law is going to be enforced. because if you're still here working after your work permit expires then you're an illegal alien. you've become an illegal alien. this administration doesn't deport illegal aliens unless they're rairpz or murderers. neil: even then, there's no guarantee. >> they've actually released thousands with convictions back into the united states. neil: disturbing, but thank you very much. all this as republicans are struggling to come up a border solution of their own. weinstein says the g.o.p. is dropping the ball on this. >> it seems that the problem is not only the problem with democrats but republicans in their own party can't get behind a solution. last week, mike mccaul

had a bill that was going to be put up for a vote. the leadership pulled it at the last-minute. they believe it was because the blizzard. most people believe because there wasn't agreement in the party. it was to provide more equipment and border control. some conservatives in the party didn't think it went far enough like asylum seekers and catch and release. so the republicans pulled the bill because they feared they had a conservative revolt brewing. they can't even decide within their own party on a consensus approach to secure the border. neil: i'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. i can't blame them for bringing a little chagrin here. the president has already promised ten vetoes even as they've -- but giving the president ten different bills on a host of subjects. and the president said i'm going to veto it.

what's to embolden them to come up with an immigration bill if no matter what they do, the president seems to be saying, no no, no. >> that's the big problem with many in the republican party, in the house and senate. they don't trust whatever they pass that the president will actually enforce. the president unilaterally basically legalized 5 million illegal immigrants in the united states for the term of his presidency. neil: maybe it's bigger than that. maybe they feel -- and republicans feel that any measure that they come up with, it will never be tough enough at least to the far right of the party. the division is actually within their own party the democrats, tea party, whatever you want to call them, republicans, are saying look, anything we come up with will look like amnesty, will look like we're not being tough on the border even if we spend 100 million, so maybe that's what prompts the party to say, to hell with it. >> no question about it. and i think the problem is on both sides.

on some points, the far right, or the right that's upset with the bill last week have good points. you raise a good question. what type of bill would they support under any circumstances? i've talked to some of these guys. i get the impression there's nothing you can do -- neil: if you had a billion border enforcement now 10 billion, no amount, no amount does it. and so i'm not being jaded, but i'm saying, what are you going to offer that will show at least as a party that you're unified. on this they're not. not even close. >> it's demoralizing to the country. republicans and democrats think the border should be secure according to the polls. come to a sort of accommodation with those 11 million or so illegals in the united states. neil: this issue keeps getting squashed by a few. they're closer though than in the past. >> send peter thiel and a lot of those silicon valley geniuses down to

the border. come up with a solution. congress accepts the solution they come up. then let's deal with the 11 million already here. move forward. neil: it's smart ethically and politically. they have only the latino vote to lose by doing it. that's neither here nor there. meanwhile, ignoring a ticking debt clock that has me ticked. why i'm at my debt's end. and why a lot of you are too.

neil: all right. it's time for neil's spiel. and why am i the only one sometimes in thinking that our debt is a big deal. apparently i'm not alone. more on that later. but a white house budget that's not only ignoring the debt, but piling on to it.

republicans are saying they're on it, but not doing squat about it. even wall street guys saying don't fret about it. the logic goes something like this. that interest rates are very low. we can carry it. if it goes up, it's a sign the economy is improving. the revenues we get will dwarf whatever higher prices we have for carrying the debt. i'm not even an accountant but i have someone who is. to the fox biz all-stars to find out if i'm the only one overdoing it. tracy, what do you think, everyone is telling me to calm down, don't worry? >> debt is now 105% of our gdp. that means we're spending more than we're taking in. your point of interest rates, $525 trillion is the total of our interest payments right now. if that inches up a little bit that's an exorbitant amount of money we don't have to spend. the fact that 45% of our debt goes to

entitlements and no one has the political spine to address it. that's the problem, neil. neil: you're exactly -- >> wall street too. wall street knows, worst case, we'll print more money. neil: that's always the fallback. we can print more money. we've been worrying about this for years. nothing happened. i have no idea, but never happened. never happened. eventually it will happen. right? >> yeah. i mean, we can continue printing money. we can now offer free community college to every united states citizen who graduates high school. it's insane to me that we keep spending ridiculous amounts of money and we don't control our money. it happens on both sides of the aisle -- neil: what are you worried about, you're young? you're kind of burnt i hate to tell you. >> i am. and i worry about having kids myself because i don't know what will end up happening. neil: well don't. they'll just steal things from me. veronica, what do you think she's saying?

this is a very real concern. we can't just keep robbing peter to inflate paul. >> you'll run out of money eventually. you can't keep printing. the entitlement issue is the elephant in the room. these huge entitlements will get bigger when the boomers retire. neil: we could never see our credit downgrade. we can always print money. as if that's a great defense. >> it's not a great defense. look at people's personal finances. american's finances aren't in good shape. millennials are carrying big student loans. >> it's unfair that i'm up at night worried about my own debt and yet the government doesn't even care. neil: that's just you. >> i'm the same way. i worry too. neil: calm down. tell me if you think the government is ignoring our debt problem. we may read your response at the end of the show. we have a lot of great ones coming in on this.

world leaders consider it a distinct honor for the young ones. you can highlight it on your college application. boy, is life set then. this billionaire will tell you why it's costing companies billions which means it will cost you.

neil: getting dirty is supposedly playing clean. the epa may have inflated the benefits of a new ozone standard helping the agency to push through very costly new air quality -- that didn't measure up. wilbur ross has been telling me this for some time. saying government will do anything to crack down on energy. >> it doesn't seem to. then there was the other thing, the environmental protection agency saying state department should consider different price structure for oil in

terms of whether or not to approve the keystone pipeline. well, oil has always been volatile. it goes up and down a lot. it isn't something just invented. neil: this is nakedly obvious. and it's showing its bias here. what do guys like you do. and look for traditional energy. it's very clear where the administration is coming from and the respective agencies are coming from, but this gets no play in the main stream media. it's like it never happened. >> it will get played. jobs will start to loss. it will probably cost texas over 100,000 jobs. neil: is that the result of this or lower oil and gas -- >> well, the whole thing. it's all of the above. but the administration has been taking credit for the economic impetus that came from shale while trying covertly to do everything -- neil: yeah, i didn't think of it. much of it is improving

poll numbers. not great. really the result of that phenomenon. i always think in that case, he doesn't have to write you guys and say thank you, but he really shouldn't say screw you. so where is this going? >> i think where it's going is congress has the task to show him up for what it is. and let's see how the public reacts when bill after bill that makes perfect sense like north american energy securities like sensible -- like keystone -- neil: well, he's promised veto veto veto. >> that's fine. but it will become clear to the public who is the source of the blockage. neil: you think mainstream media will do that. >> he was able to hide behind reid for a while. reid wouldn't let anything go to to the floor. now that heat shield is gone. he'll have to stand up

for every veto. neil: let me ask you about the 2016 race. mitt romney bowing out. are you surprised? >> i was more surprised that he got in, than that he got out. neil: what do you think happened? >> i'm not sure what happened. but what i was worried about was that it would make it even more of a dissipation of resources and voter interest -- neil: everyone thinks that it will benefit chris christie. he's in london and everything. i didn't know he liked soccer. >> christie and bush are the two big beneficiaries. neil: they don't cancel each other out? >> they're the big beneficiaries in that neither of them will get a certain amount of the money that would have gone to mitt. in that sense, the pot is better for both of them. but the more important thing is, you won't have

as much split among the moderate side as you would from the three of them in there. neil: you hear from the cruzs and rand pauls that say we need a feisty guy. we've had the moderate types. >> in part we lost because the right wing didn't come around after the primaries. neil: that's interesting. >> if you're part of the party and your candidate loses in the primary, i don't think the right thing is to go on and strike the general election. neil: you think that's what happened? >> i think it happened in part sure. neil: with the mainstream, no offense, your side of the party do the same as the cruz nominee. >> they will continue to come out and vote. i really do. neil: everyone is sucking up to you right now. all these guys need money. >> they all need money. but they always need money. neil: you're the kingmaker. >> they all need money. money is the mother's blood of policy. neil: it doesn't always work. >> that's true, but hard to run without money.

neil: very profound. now i know why you're a billionaire. wilbur ross, thank you very much. did president obama just tell the nha champ onship, he loves vetoing it president obama: nothing better than the veto pen. [laughter] neil: what the puck did he say? what the g.o.p. is about to do to put the president in check after this. i'm out of analogies.

president obama: my job is to present the right ideas, and if the republicans think they have a better idea, they should present them. neil: for a president who says he's open to g.o.p. ideas he's sure keen about smacking them down. he's bragging about a veto count. ten vetoes for a president who has had all of two vetoes for his last six years in office. this from the same guy who says he takes things

into his own hands because republicans offer him no bills. house deputy with kevin brady says ten bills now apparently ten vetoes. congressman, very good to have you. what do you make of that? the truth is, not a lack of effort. you guys keep giving him stuff, now he promises he will reject all of this stuff? >> i hope he gets it out of his system now. we have a lot of challenges. foreign policy. frankly, we need to work together and find some common ground and starting out with ten veto threats sends i think exactly the wrong signal, not just to us but to the country. neil: did it bother to you in the interview, i like her, she's a wonderful journalist, her follow-up interview, super bowl they may have edited the pointed questions out. she didn't follow up with, mr. president, you're wrong. republicans have presented many an alternative. they have come up with many bills.

you're saying they're lined up like planes at la guardeelaguardia and you won't let them take off. >> we don't expect the senate republican or democrat, to agree with every bill. just pass their best ideas. let's see if we can find common ground. neil: i think you're right. but how about the mainstream media accurately report the story. republicans are coming up with stuff. you are coming up with stuff. do you fear that's the way the media will treat you, like you guys are the problem not the president? >> absolutely. we saw this -- i work a lot on trade issues. there's common ground. pretty exciting trade agreements. when we passed south korean panama in a jobs partisan way. the president didn't hold the signing outside the oval office. it didn't fit the narrative that republicans and democrats were working together on jobs. and i fear we have the same narrative going on. neil: congressman, do you think

the president means it when he includes in that group of ten keystone, that he would veto that or does he couch it to say that might be a useful means to strike a bigger deal on infrastructure. would you as one of the parties from your players be open to that. in other words a deal that could get keystone up and running as part of an omnibus infrastructure measure? >> you know, if it's the right infrastructure measure, well-thought out, still ties user fees to the infrastructure issues i think, yes the president's proposal to just tax us companies abroad create a minimum tax, try to fund some infrastructure that way i think that's exactly the wrong way to do it. but, yeah, if there's a thoughtful, long-term solution on infrastructure, you know that also brings along the keystone pipeline and the jobs with it, we ought to

take a serious look at it. neil: all right. deputy, pleasure having you. all right. now, i know how apple plans to pad its profits. apparently with a bigger ipad.

neil: all right. in tonight's very fast biz blitz. tablet sales are slowing. apple is not. while it's losing tablet share, a bigger ipad is on the way. veronica, is a bigger ipad the answer? >> it could help. there could be a market for this. a lot of my sources they carry their ipad, their iphone, their laptop. they would ideally like one device that would do it all.

or just a larger portion of the ipad. they don't have to bring their laptop. it appeals to the businesspeople. >> what do you think of that ashley? >> this is something that may appeal to us, as a younger generation. i bought the ipad mini because it's smaller than the original ipad. neil: sucker. >> a lot of people made fun of me for that. it fits in my purse. neil: well, actually that's a very good point. then along came the iphone six plus. >> yeah, the working woman. yada yada. >> i'm rare. i'm a working woman, neil. neil: i hear you roar. i hear you roar. what do you make of that? >> i have the mini as well. i also have the first mini eye ipod. neil: i have the first sony walkman. >> here's the thing 650 million ipads to date, they've sold. they've created a one

stop shop -- you want a little one, you get a little one. gamers, movie guys, they want big -- neil: you want to read a big newspaper. >> spreadsheet. >> now they have something for everyone. neil: if at first you don't succeed, try again. virgin galactic keeping its eyes on the skies. just months after this tragic test run. what do you think of that ashley? >> it's a great idea. what happened to the entrepreneurial spirit of america. nothing came without trial and tribulation. the wright brothers were first in flight. that wasn't easy. now we have thousands of different air -- you know lines flying flights every day. specially these past two days, a lot of cancellations. i won't get into the airline thing. neil: the challenger. the columbia. we kept going on. >> and he's using his

own money to do it. i worry. i think your brain swells so i think we need to fix that detail. >> it will be an exciting experience for wealthy people who want the next best opportunity, something different they can brag about to their friends. i think this would be awesome. >> i think this brings jobs to new mexico as well which is important. neil: and jobs in space. we've never done that. honey, i got a job. unfortunately, it's on the moon. [laughter] so much for my feeling alone, screaming about our debt. these ladies proved it. right? apparently not only are they with me on this i've got a lot of company. way, way beyond -- many of you ask, neil, why should i ask your show? that alone, we are ahead of the curve. way ahead. in fact, so ahead it's scary. the proof comes from you. right after this.

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>> "what's the deal, neil?." >> what's the deal with the president having a budget with half trillion dollar deficit and insisting the days of austerity are over and the budget caps are crazy? this is what's crazier. >> you know it hit me while i was watching my friend and colleague maria bartiromo's show on fox business network. these two financial brainiacs telling maria the deficit issues for that matter dent matter. it is one thing to dismiss spending more than we have, but laugh at the notion we should do something about this now? am i alone worbeing this? i want you all to e-mail me and don't e-mail me if you are not worried about this because i don't want you as a viewer. >> i didn't mean that, i'm not alone. the debt does matter maybe not to the folks who spend the money but certainly to the folks who pay the bill. like robert in chicago --

>> you're right about that, david. ellen in connecticut -- carol in new york -- calm downs, there ways to get this addressed. i know where you're going! marlene via hotmail. you would think, marlene, you would think. elena in virginia -- really elena, viewers like bosh writing from new york --

really? bill in fresno -- now, now you really overdid it. elaine via gmail -- robert e-mails -- paul in new hampshire -- well, i have addressed this

issue and repeatedly paul, and i've argued many many times that bankruptcy is inevitable because you can't keep printing money and assume your bills go away, they don't. they stay fester and climb like cancer and kill. the signs are all there. john in arizona -- peter in boston -- peter, first off, i'm either a melon head or a blockhead i cannot be both. the minecraft reference is witty. secondly, you could tax me and the top 1% even all of the 5% and 100% and you know what? tax all their money and you wouldn't put a dent in the debt, it's true. the problem isn't the money coming in, it's all the money going out. let me put it this way, peter, in ways that i think will cut through the thick skull.

this government gets 3 trillion bucks every year, surely we can budget around. that jim in cincinnati -- and i get when i don't hear a peep out of it. i get zero sleep. i have the late tv night lineup memorized. too scared to laugh tat now. joe, via e-mail -- then there's tyler -- not bad, tyler and not just this president. presidents of both parties have been doing the same thing, it should stop right at the top. steve in massachusetts --

all right, a little gruesome but, yes, something like that. linda -- will out in costa rica says -- i trust all those translations were accurate i'm going with your word. bill, via msn -- yes, it will, bill, and sooner than you think. maria in providence -- because maria, beneath this

lego hair lies a cranium and brain the likes of which these charletains of finance could not compete. that is why, that is why go crawl back in your little cave and never bother me again. michael via earthlink.net -- no, we don't michael, excellent and concise point. if the relatively meager cutting are onus and off the ear, why are we piling on the debt? steven in georgia -- you better talk to dana steven who e-mailed -- dana, you seem upset. alan in louisiana --

zelda e-mails -- zelda, i'm trying to wake you up so you and your kids can enjoy future days. i'm here to serve. sweater vest and all. kyle e-mails -- and kyle i'm going on a limb to say you shouldn't watch my show. it is way over your head. may i suggest something like i don't know morning joe on msnbc, and if any of you have anything nice to say, you can go to facebook.com/team cavuto. if you're that mean to do fat jokes, lego hair jokes, like i haven't heard that before. the minecraft thing was good, you can't be a blockhead and a brick head at the same time. keep the analogies limited so you don't look like the fool a lot of you are. all right?

not the ones that like me. just the ones who don't. thanks for watching, an all-new "strange inheritance." by the way, all of you that wrote nasty things, you're getting nothing from me. nothing. good night. . >> an 8-year-old gets a very strange inheritance. >> when my dad died everyone was heart broken. >> what does a guy do with a winery? >> the funny thing is i would tell my friend's parents and they would totally freak out. >> talk about getting your feet wet in a new business. >> that is really good. >> but how does the family keep it from dying on the vine? >> i didn't know anything about wine except they like to drink it. >> so what's the heir going to do when he grows up? >> trying to prove i'm not the owner's kid who just gets handed these things.