if you look at mylan and perego hit all-time highs on this news. david: i have to mention this, alibaba up big time. [closing bell ringing]. david: up over 3%. we had someone say by buy it early. he was right on the money. liz: here are the bells and a little bit of confetti at nasdaq, that's nice. liz: on a day we got federal reserve minutes from the most recent meeting, in march, gyrations of up peck proportions, up, down, all around. dow jones industrials seeing a gain of 26 points of the not the highs of the session, but pretty much up there falling into the red after minutes came out. s&p 500 also in the green. up five points. nasdaq showing real -- david: nasdaq up 40 points today. the very big move on nasdaq. that has a lot to do with a particular stock. we'll tell you about it. we have a busy hour. "after the bell" starts right now.

david: first of although, some breaking news. the jury of course reaching a verdict in the boston bombing trial. dzhokhar tsarnaev is found guilty on all 30 charges. now faces the death penalty. this is a federal court. i know massachusetts doesn't give the death penalty but federal courts do. we have more on that in just a few minutes. first let's get to today's market action. anthony valerie of lpl financial thinks the fed will raise rates during the last two months of the year. he will tell us how to play that jeff will tell us how investors should ignore weak first quarter economic data likely to come in. todd horowitz from the pits of cme. todd, let's start to you and i read your notes coming into this. the question is not if but when. you really think we'll head towards recession right now? >> hi, david, hi liz. you know as i look at action, as i look at the market, you see

the markets have been very jittery. the last two days we were up all day and sold off. you saw this morning early, the markets broke 200 points in about 15 minutes. about 10:00 a.m. this morning eastern time. now we close ad little stronger. but the fed can't even make up its mind. we have a split fed on fomc minutes today. there are a lot of reasons to believe we'll go lower. we have earnings quarter coming up starting today. that is already based to be, expected to be worse than we looked for. at end of the day, valuations we have, we have no growth. i still say that we have not seen any real improvement. we've got trouble in production with the dollar, deflation. there are a lot of reasons to believe we'll go lower. that is the way i see it. liz: now i get to beat up todd again. you will be amazed, todd. i'm not i think in a way you might be right. atlanta fed, this brings in anthony, and how you see things, atlanta fed earlier a week ago, we see gross domestic product for first quarter at zero, 0%.

next stop recession, anthony? or we come back from the brink? what do you think? >> i think we come back from the brink. i don't think it's a recession here at all. we've actually had a trend. weak first quarter, economic growth over recent years. even if you take out last year's weak down 2% growth rate, we've seen this before. so, we do think we see a bounceback. we look at weather impacts, the west coast port disruption. we'll see a bounceback. we'll see gdp growing closer to 3% over the course of the year. we expect a bounceback. we wouldn't be frightened by earnings. that lowered the bar considerably. we expect earnings to be ultimately back-end loaded. we'll have single-digit growth rate in our view for the full year. we don't see recession. david: jeff what we haven't seen before, the fed raising rates, not since the start of this qe thing. the minutes were kind after mystery to me. some people said they set the

bar high for a rate hike. i read a piece in market watch saying they set the bar really low for a rate hike. which is isn't. >> i think the bar is pretty low, david. they're looking for labor force to really improve and unemployment to fall. david: you expect a rate hike in june, july, when? >> 15 out of 17 members expect rate hike this year. i think june is possible, david, if we get rebound in jobs numbers and q2 data looks like 3% number, not 1% number. june could be on table. the july could be on table. they don't have to wait until a meeting with press conference. sometime this summer is reasonable expectation. we're at 5 1/2% on unemployment rate. we shouldn't be at zero fed funds. the economy is doing fine. we've haded 3 million jobs in the last 12 months -- added. liz: todd, are you listening? >> yeah, todd, this is for. >> we have alcoa earnings.

we have. cheryl. how did they do. >> kind of a mixed bag for alcoa. as far as earnings per share they did beat. estimate was 26 cents. came in earnings per share, 28 cents. revenue a slight miss. this may affect the stock when trading opens. 5.9 billion. and 5.8 billion where they came in. they're talking about global demand. we're looking important headlines. here are the headline numbers for alcoa. saying at least, two to 3% forecast increase as far as global sales go. i'm digging into the numbers. but again, those are the numbers we're getting for alcoa right now. liz: let's bring todd back here. but, todd, alcoa three months ago was incredibly upbeat about global aluminum outlook in its prices. this is a company that tried very hard to extricate itself from being tied closely to the price of aluminum. can they do it? they missed on revenue. >> you know, it is really hard, liz. when you look at the global economy, the global economy is weak. everybody, every central bank in

the world is trying to lower their rates and currency. we have dollar problems and dollar interest rate issues and really affecting growth. we are talking about everywhere. not just in the united states, there is trouble everywhere around the globe. the thing we keep missing, keep making excuses for the weather, this, that the other thing. the bottom line we're not seeing true growth which will directly affect a company like alcoa because we're not building and we're not manufacturing. when it comes down to the bottom line, they will have a major effect. forget currency. just natural raw goods there is not as much demand for those goods. that creates more of a problem. david: we have another guest to weigh in. patrick from brandywine global. patrick it is true that we've had serious problems with growth, particularly with job growth, that report on friday was just abysmal. we had one half the number of jobs created than we thought were going to be created. there are serious problems. however, i don't want to focus too much on alcoa.

put up a chart of 3 months for alcoa. you could see a steady rise for alcoa despite the problems with growth in the world economy. alcoa has been doing -- put up a three-month chart. that is a year-to-date. the past three months alcoa has been doing very well. you can't really see it from that chart but we will show you if you can. okay. there is the three-month. it actually had been looking better when you look at the past five days. that is it what i'm told by producers. listen, we'll take anything we can get. why has it been doing well recently? patrick? >> yeah, you know, i mean, yes, absolutely. i think part of it is, everybody knows that global growth is weak. you talk about things that everybody knows. global growth is weak. the question is, what happens next? it is like in our business, past performance looks great. david: there it is. >> client comes in right now, a client comes in right now is concerned about future performance. can you hear me now? david: yeah, we can.

>> everybody knows global growth has been weak. is weak. the question is what's next. and i think, i think honestly things are better than you've been saying. 100,000 jobs, when you look at historically, at a bull market, ranges from 100,000 to 400,000. last year was a great year for job creation. we had a couple bad months. is that winter flip? we think so. a choppy market presents opportunities. so specifically to alcoa, i don't put a lot of great importance in alcoa's release. you know, somebody has to be at front of the phone book. they have their ticker aa. first to report. they're the front of the phone book. but that really matter? is that symptom of what is going on in the economy? i don't think so. david: patrick, i'm glad we're able to hook you up, anthony valari, jeff cleveland, todd, good to see you all, appreciate it. a jury reach as verdict in the boston marchthon bombing trial. dzhokhar tsarnaev faces death

penalty after being found guilty of all the 30 charges. liz: you guys have been in the business of defending criminals. what do you think are the chances that dzhokhar tsarnaev gets the death penalty because of course he is facing it now? i want to start with eric? >> liz, i think is definitely a difficult case this is mount kilimanjaro of death penalty cases. judy lark, well-accomplished death penalty battle. we're in boston where the state does not have a death penalty. it is federal prosecution. it will come down to aggravators, versus mitigators. big brother, versus little brother. will the aggravators outweigh the mitigators or will the mitigators outweigh the aggravators? the issue this was never a whodunit from the beginning of this case. in opening states and closing statements, judy clark told the jurors he is guilty. it's a question was he under the influence, was he under the control. was it big brother versus little

brother? is the jury going to buy that and spare him of his life? david: jay, what about the influence of a state, having a death penalty, given in a state that is so averse to death penalty? is there a -- i know it is federal court. it is not a state court. they will have the opportunity to give a death penalty, but doesn't the culture impinge upon that decision? >> i actually disagree with eric. i think uphill battle is for the prosecution because you are in massachusetts. it's a very liberal state. even though there will be some very graphic and depictive evidence and testimony by the prosecution during the penalty phase, during the death penalty phase of the trial, you have, as he mentioned, judy clark and bill stick, who are the defense lawyers for tsarnaev. i've personally known bill fix over 30 years. he is a genius. he is a yale law grad --fick. if you watched trial he dade

amazing cross-examining of fbi agent getting him to admit it was impossible to who downloaded bomb-making instructions on the computer. these are fantastic attorneys saving people's lives. the trial was not about guilt or innocence. it is about life or death. i think there is a huge burden here for the state. they will have a tough time in massachusetts. there is evidence that, for example, the bomb parts, only had the older brother's fingerprints on them, not the younger brothers. there is lots of reasons why they will persuade a jury to give this guy life in prison. for example, he was only 19 years old. under the spell of his brother. there is a lot of compelling evidence that his lawyers can present to avoid the death penalty. liz: in fact, eric, judy clark has been called houdini on this network by a former federal prosecutor. she has been able to get people like "the unabomber," ted kaczynski, away from the death penalty. susan smith, who drove her children, her tiny children into

a lake and drowned them. she is still alive and kicking. there is that ability here. however -- >> eric rudolph, the olympic park bomber, she represented. i mean, there are lots of people, there is a long list that she, don't forget bill fick as well. liz: we're not challenging her brain power. she's a genius, we know that. but, eric, the evidence with the video, does it work to say to a jury, does it work to say, oh, he was under ven gally laugh like influence of his brother? -- svengali-like influence. >> she is excellent attorney. but the evidence is evidence. this is hain just act. she played it brilliantly from the beginning. this will not be about big brother, versus little brother, who is under who's spell. he was 19 at time. i think it was played right. the issue though, if there is case for death penalty, one of

the issues for the death penalty or arguments against it, used proportionally against minorities, in particular african-americans. we don't have that in this particular case. are we sure we'll execute someone truly guilty. they're conceding guilt. it was calculated, cold, manipulated. as defense attorney which i am. she is making valid arguments. was he under spell. issue of facebook postings, with the brother, fingerprints on the bomb, those were the brother's. in boston, very liberal place where they do not have the death penalty, this still happened in boston. i think this is kilimanjaro of death penalty cases. she could be houdini or fantastic attorney but it will be difficult. one jurors came out, reported, foreperson, i don't know if it is true at and reported looked and stared at the defendant in the eyes. you never see that when jury wants to convict someone. david: we literally run out of time. we have to rap.

if there has ever been case for death penalty hard to find another one apropos. liz: let's have them back, jay, eric, thanks very much, gentlemen. good to talk to both of. >> you thank you. liz: we'll bring you back. it is far from over. may not be as heated as yankees versus red sox or alabama versus auburn but, in investing word, passive versus active is definitely a rivalry heating up. which is best for your portfolio now? a heated debate next. david: senator rand paul, officially announced he is running for the presidency yesterday but in making that announcement he left out one very important part of his prepared remarks that has a lost folks scratching their heads. we are going to tell you what he left out and talk to one of the economic advisors, maybe talking to him about things, that is coming up next, steve moore. liz: despite the hype over the apple watch, there are some reviews that are not so shiny. could it actually be a bit of a flop from the company? will it drag down the stock or

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>> i see an america with a restrained irs that can not target, can not harass american citizens for their political or religious beliefs. [cheers and applause]

david: senator rand paul, making run for presidency official yesterday but in doing so he left out one very important part of his speech and i will read that for you now. quote, i see a simplified flat tax that unburdens our citizens. joining me now with maybe this was taken out, steve moore, heritage foundation chief economist. what is going on, steve? i mean, why did he take that out? >> you know, i think it is because he didn't want, i think he wants to have another big event sometime in the next few weeks to unveil the tax plan. i can tell you i've been kind of working informnally with this senator for the last year or so. how do you tax reform. he does want to do flat tax, no question about it. one of the things he told me from the beginning, i want it to be flat tax but i want it to be a big tax cut. i want to be sure i'm offering middle class people the biggest tax cut of anyone in the field. david: it is interesting, he was

clearly reading from the prompter in his announcement yesterday. it was clearly taken out of the stretch speech. it was in written remarks. somebody took it out of the prompter. you think he took it out of the prompter himself? >> i don't know. i know he is not done yet putting this thing together. there are a lot of parts to refashion 90,000-page tax code. it will be something radically simplified. it will be something with a really low rate. it is something that will be a reduction in taxes for the vast majority of americans. that is no big secret because rand paul has been talking about that for years. but i would anticipate sometime in the next three or four weeks, he will have big unveiling. by the way, i would tell you, having talked to a lot of these candidates, i think the big story here, david, is the republican candidates are almost all in favor of a flat tax. they're all talking about low rates. david: let's be clear, there is internal debate, you and i

talked about this as well, those in favor after flat tax, clear steve forbes-like flat tax. >> that's right. david: those who want a sales tax, a national federal sales tax. >> that's right. david: some. people saw that, some of flat tax people frankly saw elimination of line, oh, he has been won over by the sales tax people. any truth to that? >> i get, here's the thing. under any tax system you will have to have some tax collection agency. whether national sales tax or say a flat tax, by the way either one of those i think would be far superior what we have right now, you will so simplify the system. and so condense it, that you're going to need far less of an army of irs agents. by the way, you will not need people probing into every check that you got, every financial transaction you made. so it, you know, i think we would agree, both systems radically reduce the complexity and therefore the irs oversight of people's finances. david: i agree with you 100% on one thing. clearly, there is a movement now

afoot, based on news items that keep breaking left and right. >> exactly. david: how the irs is totally dysfunctional. when it is functional by the way it is even worse because then you have lois lerner going after, targeting political groups, using irs power to do that. so it's a institution in need of, either elimination or tremendous upheaval. but -- >> yeah, especially at a time, this april 15th, is what a few days away. the irs isn't answering a lot of calls. go to the help line, it provides no help. if you're on hold, worse than an airline. they keep you on hold for an hour. by the way, david, want to know amazing fact, a third of the time irs help line gives you wrong information. david: i read that. >> irs can't figure this stuff out. david: let me put you on the spot a little bit. back in 2011, you wrote a piece in the journal, saying the flat tax is the fairest tax of all. you went to talk about how you liked herman cain's tax.

remind folks what he had in 2011, was nine, nine, nine program. which included, one of those nines was a sales tax. don't you worry, that if you add a sales tax, to our income tax, suddenly we're left with a big tax system than we had before? >> well, look, i'm not as concerned about that as you are. we've had this discussion. i mean i think if you're going to have a national sales tax, david, i think, you know and i would probably agree, if you're going to go that rout you have to get rid of the income tax. you don't want both. that is problem with some of these plans, they would create a national sales tax and income tax. that is two massive sources of revenue for the government to pick our pockets. i'm with you on that one. i have to convince you one of the days, national sales tax work. we can make that thing work. david: i don't know. actually, just to remind folks to get rid of income tax you would have to change the constitution itself. that is a big matzah ball to climb over.

steve, you and i have to have the conversation. let's do this again. >> this will be a big debate. david: this will be a big debate. >> over the next year. david: we inaugurated it right here on "after the bell." we have more of this tonight. don't want to miss steve, tonight on fox business at 8:00 p.m. interview. i have a grover norquist on. americans for tax reform president. he claims he has proof that the irs and what they did with lois lerner led to the president's re-election. steve moore will be watching. i hope you do too, folks. liz? liz: david, thank you. america loves second acts. here comes one. zynga founder, mark pincus retaking company ceo post, ending don matrix's less than two years of as chief executive. stock of zynga is halted. mark was forced out under pressure and was founder and founders are not grown-ups that shareholders want to see running a company. guess what?

they want mark pincus back. he is coming. the stock is expected to reopen at 4:35 p.m. eastern time. we'll see what zynga does. david: remember what steve jobs did when he came back. liz: a lot. david: sometimes reemerge ends of the founder is a good thing. liz: turning back to boston, guilty on all charges. one surviving boston marathon bomber now faces the death penalty. we'll take you live to boston coming up. ♪ ♪ help an oil company overcome minus 47 degree temps,

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even if you've already been vaccinated with another pneumonia vaccine, prevnar 13® may help provide additional protection. get this one done. ask your healthcare professional about prevnar 13® today. liz: downgrade for apple. tesla upgrades the base version of its model s. oil extends losses on a surge in crude supplies. that is all with our panel straight ahead. first, fidelity, do you have funds in there? fidelity is changing up its investment model after losing market share to rival vanguard which emphasizes what are called passive invests. you barely pay for anything, in an index. guess what it dill does well. which is better knowing the

economy and what the fed might do. active or passive investing. we bring in gary kaltbaum, kaltbaum asset management and fox business contributor. jeff taylor, and our own cheryl casone. gary k., passive investing worked well over past five years. will it continue knowing we have a stretched market? >> it is about market conditions. market fund supermarkets will change when the markets change. i promise you we get another bear market again, maybe we won't because of central banks, but if we do, passive investing will go south and the other is going north. that is because, you're going to lose 30% passively versus, you get a manager that is decent could outperform the markets when they do down. that is going to change eventually. i think fidelity is doing a smart thing playing catch up. they will have to be ready when things change. david: liz: they have new management, jeff, apgail johnson, founder

daughter of the found he. which works best? >> passive, lying he said a moment ago, last seven years really, really has done well but the key to passive is absolutely having discipline and duration what your investment goals are. the problem where passive gets into trouble when all of a sudden, in a down market we start having fear-driven reactions by the passive investor who basically is witnessed nothing than a bull market. passive has done very well past six or seven years. in a market where you have, after seven-year high, i think passive still has a run. but again discipline is key. liz: cheryl, anybody voting for passive? >> actually, no i don't. here's why. i think passive is kind of a misleading term. passive means you make your picks and walk away. one of the things many active investors do, you still buy etf and mutual fund. you have to be a little more creative in exactly where you pick the funds.

international, bond funds. funds that actually, maybe are, country specific. liz: tailoring. >> covering europe. look how hot europe is according to a lot of the experts that are on the show. tough start to look at the stuff, and not say, oh, i will buy the s&p 500 and leave it alone. i think that is very bad strategy at the end of the day. liz: one that worked great for passive and active funds, apple. should it be. the tech giant downgraded by soc-gen. buy, sell or hold, apple. they're saying hold at the moment. what do you say, jeff? >> honestly for me i think this is a buy. what happel has done amazing last 15 and 20 years innovate and disrupt. it changes way we do things. look at the new watch. it is not a timepiece. what they're getting to us think about, what can we put on a wrist that can change our life? a few of the features of the first version of watch has will track more of our health. how often we run, heart rate,

et cetera. think about the next generation. if you take that data -- liz: cheryl, is this continued injection of fuel for apple's stock? >> i don't know about continued. it is hard to say with the watch because we really don't know how the public will react. there is a lot of debate whether or not, you need basically fashionistas to embrace the watch for instance. as far as apple being a part of anybody's portfolio i think it is absolutely a buy or hold. i would never sell apple. i'm not smart. i'm not stupid either. i wouldn't sell that stock. it's a great company. liz: gary, buy the company, buy the watch, hold or sell, what do you think? >> first off my company does own the stock right now, full disclosure. here is the deal, it is pretty simplistic, if the watch bombs the stock is going to get hit. that is the case here. there has been some -- >> not that much though. >> i don't know about that. >> not a lot. >> this is a product company and sometimes expectations get built

into stocks. here is what apple has got going for it. valuation is not very high. growth rate is very high. i think that will buffer it if any pullback does occur. i think the stock is fine. liz: coming up, will tesla's v. slammed -- revamped model s, that came out today. will that drive sales for automaker. oil prices plunging following a surge in crude supplies. how low will prices go. david: i can't see gary kaltbaum with a apple watch. i can't see that. we have one banking ceo to tell us why he says higher rates could actually be good for a whole generation of americans. justice in boston, nearly two years to the day after the marathon bombings. will the convicted bomber now be sentenced to death? a live report with the latest from boston coming up. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. ♪ 50 when the moment's spontaneous, why pause to take a pill?

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liz: breaking news. zynga has just reopened for trade. it was halted for news. you can see it is plummeting right now. the news was that the original founder, mark pincus would be coming back to run the company. he would be replacing don matrick who stayed less than two years. response in the stock is extremely negative. this company is behind "farmville" and many mobile phone games hugely popular but tied to facebook.

tough go for this stock which is well below $3 a share. let's move on to our panel discussions. tesla, tesla is upgrading entry model s level and equipping with more capable battery and all wheel drive. comes with a bigger price tag. will the revamped model boost tesla sales? we bring back our panel. cheryl, tesla stocks moved up a couple points. well off the high of 52 week numbers. what did you think of tesla? will this help isn't. >> they needed for a long time to come out with a lower-priced model. we all want to drive that $100,000 tesla. some of us do. i don't really drive that well. they need to come up with something more affordable. idea of electric car is wonderful. you have to make the price point attractive to mass consumer audience. this could be the way to do it. liz: 240 miles on single range, or single charge, rather. not so much the range at this point. it is, i think, gary, the price. there is a difference between

100 grand and 75 grand for some people. it could be the deciding factor. >> and it is still. >>s me the middle class tax to buy this thing. liz: talking about tax breaks that you get? >> you get a tax break, yes. the big issue there is limited market for electric cars. that is why they give out the subsidies so you buy more. especially these price points. i think they sell more cars because of it. i don't think it changes tesla's trajectory. they're still not really making any money off the cars either at this point in time. liz: jeff, they sold a record 10,300 in q is. al mon musk told us to fox business, grateful to george w. bush who put the tax breaks into place. >> oh, yeah. >> 70,000 obviously is significantly less than 100 to you. i'm not sure how much it will turbo charge the sales. i will look for model next year.

that appeals to totally different demographic. i think you will see market share when that comes out. liz: my 10-year-old wants one right now. the electric car is just one of many threats to oil. prices sinking 6.6% today. following a surge in crude prices. and crude supplies, rather. it was the biggest build in crude supplies, share, in 14 years. this is only getting worse for the price of oil, better for the consumer. >> i think it is better for the consumer and the economy all around. no one wants to see gas prices go up. frankly the u.s. economy need as break like this. i'm glad we're getting one going into the summer driving season. this helps so many things. tourism industry, restaurant, movies, all things we drive to. it will be real good for the u.s. economy. liz: depends on the day. sometimes you see energy bringing entire stock market down. jeff, net-net, a positive.

how much lower does oil really go here as builds continue even as we're cutting back on rig counts this is not a good sign for price of oil for people that want it to be a little firmer. >> there is always about supply and demand. more supply we'll see volatility and lower prices. this does, cheaper gas price is good for consumers in certain parts of the country, look at areas like texas and louisiana. we have the huge oil industry in manufacturing plants. they're rightsizing companies. losing jobs. liz: i saw an interesting stat. those jobs account for half of a single percent of all non-farm payroll jobs, gary. >> i couldn't hear that. liz: those, the oil jobs account for half a single percent of all none pardon me payroll jobs. doesn't hurt any less. >> overall, no. but listen in places like texas and north dakota and places like that, definite effect. i read somewhere 100,000 jobs were lost.

definite effect. bottom line is slackening demand. you have the dollar soaring. that will affect commodity prices to go lower. now that inventory picks up you will see lower price. i don't know how much lower. liz: we talk about the tesla but the volt and bolt have made by general motors. they're trying to make other offerings. gang, so great to have all of you, we appreciate it. gary kaltbaum, jeff taylor, cheryl casone. >> thank you. david: definition of a recession, if i lose my job. that's a recession. everyone hurts. liz: why fed chair janet yellen and company talk about holding off on a rate hike for a few more months. details from inside the fed next. david: also the penalty phase is about to begin in the boston bombing trial. the convicted bomber could be sentenced to death. we get a live report from boston to find out the latest.

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frisky. it isn't so much fun for people waiting to see the what the fed might do. it is agonizing. first people saying june. now september 2016. atlanta fed said, jon, gdp growth might hit 0% for the first quarter. does this put the fed on the rails for june fed hike? >> that is one of the factors that could make them slow down. bill dudley, new york fed president was out speaking today, he said, yeah you have to think odds of june are going down, not just because of gdp but payroll numbers were soft last week. we got minutes of fed march meeting came out. what we saw even before this week, data we've been getting, there was split at the fed. some people said june would be the right moment. but a lot of people on federal open market commit see saying later this year or even 2016. there were a lot of divisions before we got the weak number. the these weak numbers. now getting more weak numbers.

looks like odds are moving towards september actually. liz: people who are leaving, charlie plosser, richard fisher said we should have done this yesterday. >> yeah. liz: they're speaking freely now. i begin to wonder if a window wasn't missed already? now there is a bit of a weakness or soft patch we're hitting and we can't do it now, like warren buffett predicted on fox business in february? >> the fed is in a tricky spot. if it plays out the way it did last year. we had very soft first quarter. the economy comes roaring back to health in the second and third quarter and we do want to act. but it takes time to see momentum building. they have to really watch the data. it's a challenge trying to figure out whether you're gaining momentum or losing momentum. liz: right. >> right now it looks like we don't have as much momentum as we did last year. it makes it harder to convince them to pull that trigger. liz: got to see the april jobs report. we might have clear picture. jon, good to have you, thank you

so much. >> thanks, liz. liz: jon hilsenrath at "wall street journal" anytime. david? david: when the fed finally raises interest rates, how will it affect every day americans like you and me in terms of saving lending? let's bring in new york community bank president. >> good to see you. david: wall street as you know is scared to death of a rate hike. every time there is a hint of it stocks go down in value. what about banks, particularly community banks? >> no question, if rates were higher it would be better for banks. there needs to be space amount of money banks assets they deploy and liabilities that fund those assets. so a higher rate environment is actually better for banking. david: for your kind of banking. for financial banking it ain't so. they're taking a lot of risk with zero interest rates. that's why they love zero interest rates. they borrow a lot of money and make big bets with it. >> sure.

jamie dimon would divest of hundred billion dollars of deposits by charging for them. he was not paying for them. he was being paid to have them. david: we're looking at this chart. you can see inflation is the blue line there. the federal funds target rate is blue line. inflation is a yellow line. whenever inflation is above an interest rate, that is sign of a warning, something is wrong with the economy. we've been in that warning period for the past three years. can we afford it anymore? >> no. there really needs to be adjustment in rates that allows for the normal course of lending and borrowing. people have to be paid for their deposits. and people have to earn a reasonable amount. david: sometimes helps to get back to basics. what happened with the old s&l model, i deposit money to the bank. they use some of that cash to lend out to people, profit would come back to me in terms of interest. with zero interest the whole banking model is falling apart. >> it is way too tight right

now. david: how does that affect you? >> as all of us do the same thing, it makes us all less profitable than otherwise we would be. we make money various ways. most important way is money on interest, the interest we earn dictates amount of interest we can pay. >> when you're forced to pay out, when you give a loan at 30-year mortgage for 3 to 4%, you must be scared to death? you know that eventually, interest rates are going above four? >> yeah. lending at lowest rates in history is very, very high-risk because everybody borrows very short term. so the liability side is very short and the asset side is typically very long. we happen to have a business model where the average life of our assets is three years. so that is very different than most banks. david: final question, do you think the fed has been favoring wall street? wall street is happy with zero interest rates? at the risk of hurting the community bankers and middle class? >> i don't know that the fed is

favoring any side of the discussion. i do think that the fed is intentionally trying to avoid adverse consequence of their movements. they need to be more like a barometer, measuring the consequences of change, and then making the necessary changes that they can make when they can make those hanks. they shouldn't be automatically doing a rocket ship climb in rates. david: joe, great to see you. best of luck to you. new york community bancorp president and ceo. liz, over to you. liz: david, we continue to follow the latest from the boston courthouse where tsarnaev has been found guilty of all 30 counts, live from boss ton. we'll take you there next. >> hi, everybody, i'm gerri willis. coming up on my show at the top of the hour, we'll also have the latest on the boston bombing verdict and what happens next. and, our users guide to taxes. some big tax reductions you won't want to miss. that is coming up on

"the willis report" in just a few minutes.

liz: the jury finally reached a verdict in the boston bombing trial. as you may know dzhokhar tsarnaev was found guilty on all 30 charges. he now faces the death penalty. david: fox news's molly line joins us live from boston with the very latest. molly, set up the mood. this city suffered through this for two years. is there some sense of relief today? >> really there is a sense this is the halfway point. as you guys are aware, this is

the initial verdict, the third verdicts coming down, every single one of them guilty, including the big charge, guilty of using a weapon of mass destruction. next phase will be the penalty phase. that phase will ultimately determine whether or not dzhokhar tsarnaev spends the rest of his life in prison or actually is put to death. remember there were 264 people injured, three people killed at the site of the boston marathon bombing. a police officer, mit police officer sean collier, killed later. by all the jury verdicts they are essentially holding tsarnaev responsible for what he did. the same jurors will look at aggravating, mitigating factors in this case to determine what the penalty should be. the main mitigating factor we already heard a little bit from the defense attorney, judy clark in opening and closing statements throughout this trial, they're turning blame to older brother tam tamerlan tsarnaev.

he martyrdom information, magazine inspire, published by inal qaeda how to make a bomb. that was taken from tamerlan's computer put on show car's computer. that the older brother was mastermind. that the older brother drove up to new hampshire to collect the bomb parts. the older brother say pulled the tricker to kill the mit police officer. prosecutors all along argued that the two brothers were equal. they worked together throughout the course. now in fact we have a verdict that says he is guilty not just on one conspiracy count but on three different conspiracy counts. in addition to that, all these weapons counts. there were three pressure cooker bombs over the course of this week-long rampage of terror. there were three pipe bombs. the result of a ruger 9mm used not only to kill the police officer but in carjacking and in the watertown shootout with police. those are factors things the jury already knows about and may very well consider as they head

into this next tase phase depending what prosecutors put for them. lizs, david? david: molly line. great description what happened. we appreciate it. liz: more on fox business but for now "the willis report" is next. gerri: hello, everybody, i'm gerri willis and this is "the willis report," the show where consumers are our business. get a bigger insurance discount by giving up your privacy. is it good for consumers? the company behind the new deal is here. google takes on angie's list. what are you really getting when you search online for a handyman? we'll investigate. also user's guide to taxes. don't pay uncle sam a penny more than you have to. >> deductions and credits help lower income that the irs taxes. gerri: we'll go through commonly overlooked deductions. a 12-year-old scoring a near perfect bracket. but espn won't let him collect the $20,000 prize. >>