strange"strangeinheritance," i am jamie colby thank you for watching. >> send me an e-mail or go to our web site us company. bye! >> bye, everyone. massive protests still planned in baltimore, despite criminal charges against the police officers in the freddie gray case as businesses are left to pick up the pieces now growing calls to pick up the spending. >> when you disinvest in education, when you provide no places for kids to play and no summer jobs, baltimore happens. >> i'm no illusion that out of this congress we'll get massive investments in urban communities. >> there needs to be more of investment in neighborhoods, in recreation in schools. you can't just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.

>> but is more spending really the answer? hi everyone. i'm brenda butne, this is bulls and bears. gary b. smith, jonas, and john layfield along with suzie welch and david mercer. welcome to everybody. john we've spent trillions on the war on poverty. is more spending really the answer? >> no it's not. in fact we spentd almost $12 trillion on the war on poverty and guess what's happened, changed? nothing. the poverty rate has stayed basically the same. you see dropout of minorities 50% in inner cities in north america. this is just simply not working. we have evidence of decades to show this isn't working. i set up a program to work with jat risk kids in bermuda. this is my passion and what i spend most of my time on working

with inner city, jat risat-risk kids. the government has proven they're going to throw money at the situation so politicians can leave and forget about it just like the ninth ward in new orleans after katrina was an absolute disaster. that's what politicians have done and that has been an abysmal failure. >> david, is there a case to be made for spending more money? >> i would say there's a case for not cutting additional money and let the bottom fall out from communities we're seeing like baltimore that given the recession we entered into in 2008 with people losing jobs minimum wage stuck or wages stagnant expenses for school and other things going up you do not want to continue to cut and see how much people can take to survive on their own, and not, and lose hope in the fabric of the american society that

does lay out a path to the american dream for upward mobility for opportunities for education. so i don't think we need to be cutting at a time when we're, one, coming out of the recession, and people are still trying to get on their feet and we have to close the gap on inequality that exists. >> right. gary b. government is that the answer? should we be giving throwing more federal tax dollars at this? >> rarely brenda. as you well know i'm such a big fan of the government because they spend the money so wisely you know, john mentioned one number that's just coming from the federal government. if you throw in state and local government war on poverty, the number is closer to $19 trillion that we spent over what the last 58 years or so 59 years, i guess and counting since this started in 1966. i would argue with david with one point. he says don't cut. i'd say yes, that does sound like the humane thing to do

except for one thing. the poverty rate was declining actually before we started the war on poverty. in fact since we started the war on poverty, since 1966 the poverty rate has actually gone up. there are ohm a few ways to cut poverty, proven ways. keep a job, any job full time stay in high school until you graduate and don't get pregnant outside marriage. you line up all those statistics the poverty rate diminishes dramatically. throwing money as great and as mom and apple pie as it sounds just hasn't proven to be the solution. >> suzie, where do you fall on the issue? >> i think we might be talking about the wrong kind of spending. we're talking about the money that's being spent on fighting the war on poverty but the government is spent on a lot of money building the joy began tick regulation machinery in washington.

you can't say in one week when there's riots and also a gdp report of 0.2% that there are jobs for people. i would say let's talk about spending less money on regulation and more money on job creation and the education, put that cost on the businesses to create training for education so people can have jobs. riots happen when there's hopelessness and despair. >> jonas, is the federal government the one who should be spending money to create those jobs? >> look there's a lot of people i don't think are employable in the future of this economy the way it's going with the skill set that's needed which touches on some of gary's points. i'm not saying remove the poverty, because every city might look like the pictures if we had no war on poverty but we don't know what that future would look like if there was no lyndon johnson. lot of the money goes to punish bad behaviors in the areas. there is not a whole lot as reward mechanism. there's handouts for food and housing, most for the judicial system paying for prisons.

the prison costs more than the crime they're going to make was going to net them. i think the government needs to shift the money around to create incentives that don't exist that could mean jobs that aren't really there like fdr type jobs to do work. rewards to stay in school to gary's point to not get pregnant get good grades stay out of jail. that would cost less to pay someone nut jail and the incentives aren't there for the people to not fall into these traps. >> john what do you think about that? >> i think that is a massive problem. look you got to break generational cycles here and the war on poverty has not done that. jonas talks about incarceration, generational problems with incarceration, with poverty, with gang membership. look you talk about income inequality and upper mobility and all the fancy buzzwords. they mean absolutely nothing. there's not income. 50% of those people in freddie gray's neighborhood were unemployed. there aren't any jobs.

last saturday i spent between the two six nations and the latin kings, in chicago, beyond the ball are helping kids stay out of gangs and stay in school helping kids to get jobs. they're doing this very well but not with the government's help. the government should partner with people like rob castoneto on beyond the ball in chicago because the government has shown they are absolutely inept. we've done this for decades and this has not worked. the government cannot do this. >> david, john has a point there. i mean the government has tried to do this. there hasn't been success. >> there has been success, and it was alluded to before if we did not have some of the programs that do exist, just imagine what pictures we'd be seeing other than the ones we're now showing. >> but that's very difficult to say, just a hypothetical. poverty rate is close to what it was in lyndon johnson's time >> actually it has been reduced

and columbia researchers found out with a plemental income forecasting that the poverty rate has gone down from 29 to 16%. so it has gone down with new metrics but going through the original point of view or the point that you were raising is that you could free up the government from issuing food stamps if you raise the minimum wage from $7.50 and had the private sector paying fair livable wages at $12 an hour. >> they don't have jobs. >> if i might finish then with those jobs more than $7.50 they wouldn't also have to supplement their incomes by the federal government with food stamps. that would be one cost reduction that would accrue to the government and have the private sector paying for it for the productivity of the workers. >> final word john? >> look buzzwords, it's meaningless.

you took about the minimum wage as a feel good panacea. >> tell that to the millions of americans. >> i'm sorry we have to go. auto i'll sure this debate is going to continue. "cavuto on business" in about 20 minutes from now. what have you got? >> out of all the shots this week maybe this was the money shot a baltimore mom taking her son off the street. should more parents take note? plus how is this for cahones? we freed these gitmo guys and now they want us to pay up for every year that they were locked up. does anyone feel like ponying up? we'll see you at the bottom of the hour. >> thanks neil. going to be a great show. up here first protesters burning businesses looting businesses and bashing the business feeding the guys helping protect their community, in

foxnews.com. you're watching the most powerful name in news, fox news channel. first, the burning and looting. now the bashing as looted businesses are cleaning up and burned out stores think twice about rebuilding whole foods facing a backlash for feeding the guys brought in to protect the community. critics on social media saying "whole foods feeds the oppressor." gary b. what do you say to that? >> it's craziness, brenda. we just talked about in the last segment that one of the roots to

stop poverty is to have people have jobs. the businesses of baltimore provide those jobs. the police are brought in to protect those businesses as well as the firemen, by the way, putting out the fire. whole foods steps in and says thank you. thank you for supporting the community, thank you for bringing law and order. thank you for protecting the businesses. i should they should be applauded, this is the businesses that helped the firemen and police outdoor on 9/11. no one said then that the police were oppressors. everyone was thankful that we had police dragging people out of burning buildings. i just think the values here are skroud up. >> david, what would you say to whole foods? >> if i was at whole foods and internally deliberating the decision to feed the national guardsman my question would be whywe feed only the national guardsmen, why not the peaceful protesters that are out there and build a sense of community,

a sense of oneness and unity, rather than you're feeding one but not the other. i think they open themselves up to looking as being exclusive as opposed to being inclusive, and i think you are seeing in their actions pulling photos off their website, and retracting statements that they are having second thoughts about not including maybe the protesters in providing them with sandwiches as they did with the national guard as well. >> i don't know whole foods actually gives lots of money to charity. i think it's like 5% of their profits. i mean should they be criticized for what they're doing? >> absolutely not. look this isn't an either/or situation. this isn't the fact i've seen on social media that they had tweets going out about why are you not feeding kids? why don't you just feed the whole world? the national guard they're feeding them. i've been out to iraq several times, seen a lot of our national guard, these guys are heroes. i applaud whole foods for what they're doing and also applaud

whole foods as a community-minded operation. >> okay suzy criticize them or thank them? >> let's get some perspective. about 13% of the country is on social media, and this is actually an organized movement on social media, they create a party and then they attend the party and it's just a warmup for 2016 when these sort of professional agitators get online and try to what they call destabilize the enemy and that means they try to destabilize any business that seems to be on the other side of the issues than they are and woe to the company that gets in a ti st st y about it. you have to take a deep breath especially if you're whole foods which has done so many god things for the community. we know who we are and doing the right thing and not going to let a bunch of people out there professionally devoting take our eye off the ball and distract us. of course they should be thanked, this is politically motivated and more and more is going to happen.

if i was whole foods i'd forget about it. >> yo nas where do you weigh in? >> this smells a little -- whole foods is a great company and done a lot to bring healthier food to america. they're not creating jobs in inner city america, near is starbucks. the companies are not going there and creating jobs a. it does look like a police proekt itpro protecting the assets this anger should be directed towards the government because they're the ones subsidizing corn syrup and lousy food in inner cities. whole foods -- >> how are they not creating jobs? >> they are creating jobs but not in the communities that are currently having riots. that's the catch here which is why on the public it looks a little odd. what i'm saying is it's not whole foods' fault. bentley isn't going to open a dealership there. it is the government's fault for providing garbage food to people one of the main problems among others in the areas. it shouldn't be directed at whole foods. that is where the problem is i

think. >> whole foods, john quickly, is in some of the communities. what do you say to this? >> they are in some of the communities and they're supposed to be punished because they don't have more stores in the communities? i think this is totally misguided and for people to say why don't you do more at least they're doing something, feeding national guardsmen who come to protect the city. they should be applauded. >> okay thanks guys. cashing in just over an hour from now, eric, what do you guys have coming up? >> some liberals avoiding fox news and blaming the media on the mess in baltimore but are liberal policies why inner cities have so many problems? plus dr. phil is here he says our fellow americans are betraying us and join isis. see you at 11:30. >> we will. up here first d.c.'s new plan to save americans taken hostage, hire a hostage czar. but will that ramp up the ransom? just because i'm away from

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that recent u.s. drone strike killing two hostages held by al qaeda fueling calls for, get this a hostage czar. the folks supporting it say we need a centraler. devoted to helping free americans held hostage, but suzy you have reservations about this, why? >> i guess, brenda i missed that part of the constitution that had the fourth branch of government for czars. this is ludicrous. it happens in business all the time. czar is like adding a layer of bauer crassy and it happens when

the people in power can't come to an agreement and can't make a decision so they just add a person like a task force or committee and nothing ever gets done. it's just going to slow things down and really what we need is a policy and a government that sticks to that policy especially in something like this it is dangerous. >> john you actually like this. >> i do and i agree with suzy about the word czar. it has a horrible connotation. this president appointed a lot of czars to get around congress and they haven't really been that effective. you talk to the families of the hostages that have been lost and they all talk about a bad communication with the government and i think we're not doing a very good job with the hostages that have been -- with he need to do something. i wouldn't call this person a czar but i would put one central person in charge of this. >> david, doesn't this have the possibility of ramping up the ransoms? >> well i don't think so and to avoid another layer of bureaucracy that was just alluded to i think you assign it this portfolio if you will to the national security

adviser, national security council or at the pentagon or its state, because they involve or the ultimate goals of those in hostage taking is a foreign policy or national security agenda so keep it in current existing operations but designate somebody who is on point by it so there's accountability for it. >> gary b. what's next? >> well next if someone gets food poisenings in the mess hall we're going to have a mess hall czar if someone takes friendly fire we'll have a rifle czar. this is the typical solution by government more government. we've tried it already. we thought we had that with homeland security. homeland security that agency has purchase to be a mess. the people at homeland security that work there think it's the worst department in the government. so this one central focal point in trying to tie in all these little thiefdoms as there is in government is not going to work.

the only way this is going to work is if we paired down government not make it bigger and more expensive. >> jonas? >> the problem is these departments are owl bureaucratic. they don't have managers in them they have the crazy government pay scales. in theory having a czar -- we start with george bush who brought the czar back from the fbi levels. it can work. some cases with the pay scales and everything brought people in but just bringing in people as appointees for political reasons is not going to help the problem. that is the bureaucracy on top of bauer crassy. maybe an unlimited pay scale, a bonus structure to oversee the bauer crassy. >> suzy last word. >> the biggest scariest part of this is if we have a czar we'll have more hostages taken because they'll have somebody to negotiate with. it's going to backfire in an epic way and it's luke a locomotive coming at you. we cannot do this. >> thanks guys and thank you, suzy and david for joining us. we appreciate it. >> good to be with you. point, click and take off.

how you could soon be hitching a ride to space with the guy behind amazon.

predictions? gary b. you're up. >> brenda tesla, yes, tesla is getting into the battery business for home and businesses. i love it stock up 50% in two years >> john your prediction? >> stay connected with linkedin.

linkedin shares up 30% in a year. >> jonas? >> jeff bezos from amazon is a millionaire. how is his competitors going compete with his science project? neil is next, stay tuned. to baltimore and the question everyone is asking at this hour not what becomes of those police officers charged in freddie gray's death, but why there aren't more moms like this one trying to prevent the situation from even getting worse. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. she is the mom with whom it is safe to say you do not want to mess. particularly if you're her son, and you're messing around with the police at a riot. >> at first i felt like i was embarrassed but now going through all this that i'm going through i feel like my mother do care about me. i shouldn't have been there. >> toya graham taking matters into her own hands