a great education. ben. >> i just want to go with spdr best index over a long period of time. l right now. the cost of freedom continues with david. with new terror fears gripping the nation the white house saying the president is ready to pick up his executive pen to close gitmo down. [ inaudible question ] >> the president has indicated a willingness to use as much of his executive authority as he can to try to take the steps that he believes are consistent with the national security interests of the united states. and that's closing the prison at guantanamo bay. >> some say here that would be a costly mistake. are they right? hi everybody. joining us again is austin guls

by. sabrina, would it be a mistake? >> it absolutely would be a mistake not only to close it but to use an executive order to do so. i find this obsession over guantanamo bay fascinating. the reality is this is a prison we use to hold terrorists to question them. and in some instances perhaps to hold them before they would be brought to a trial. but i don't understand if we don't like who's being held there, or if there's a question about how they're being treated, that's a policy we can change. but why would we close down this facility? what are we going to do with all the prisoners? build another expensive facility somewhere else? i just don't understand this. >> austin particularly when a lot of those prisoners that are released do go back about 30% of those who have been released either return or suspected of returning to the battlefield. >> i don't think i agree with that number. >> well it's a pretty solid number that both sides tend to agree with. but go ahead, austan.

>> regardless the issue is it's fundamentally a place with no law. that's why it's become such an international symbol of lawlessness is they chose guantanamo bay precisely because u.s. law would not apply there. and so i think it's a problem. and they got to find some way around it. now, i don't think that means you should take these really bad guys and put them in county jail or something. but, you know why not put it on an island in alaska in the free something like that. but let's get some rule of law. >> well let's look at what happened rich. we don't have to speculate about what could happen with the bergdahl swap for example, we saw what happened. a lot of the worst of the worst were traded for this guy of questionable background anyway. and they're being held in qatar, which has been very favorable to terrorists in the past. they're probably going to be released to the battlefield soon. >> yeah you know president obama's spokesman up front in the segment talked about the

security interests of the united states. and on thursday the senate voted 98-1 to take the iran nuke deal out of the hands of president obama and john kerry saying basically we don't trust you entirely with the security interests of the united states. so, you know on gitmo i don't know why we should trust president obama on the security interests of the united states. >> it's just that we have a president who seems fixated on these ideological goals which don't mesh with reality. >> yeah they put national security in second -- behind that right? so you know by the way gitmo does itadhere to international law. and gitmo, basically terrorists have been chopping off heads well before gitmo, well before 9/11. the idea that it's a recruiting tool is really lame. i love what jay le no said about it. turn it into a taxpayer funded solar company and you'll see it

shut down in a month. >> that has to settle in for a bit. john let's look at the poll because most americans do believe that gitmo should remain that it would be a mistake to release the prisoners and shut it down. shouldn't we go with the american public on this? >> yeah the americans are right on this one. i'm the first to say i'm very skeptical when we want to commit troops around the world. i think it actually makes us less safe relative to terrorists. but if we're going to be at war, let's be at war. and if gitmo makes us safer from terrorists let's keep it open. who cares what global opinion is it's about u.s. safety. >> again, it's a president that just seems even if his campaign promises sounded good in 2008 and they haven't worked out, he's going to stick with them. >> and one of the bad things he's sticking with david, is his theme that islam and these terrorists aren't part of a much larger part of this country. he very even infrequently

acknowledges a threat from islam. he doesn't call a terrorist act a terrorist act. what i'm afraid of is this is part of that overall theme. he seems to live in a different universe from most people. >> austan do you think he's going to pull an executive action on this one? >> i mean he's allowed to choose on military policy. i think they've passed in congress various laws to try to complicate it. i don't think anybody's talking about releasing the prisoners. but the moral debasement of the american brand name in the world because of torture and us doing things we prosecuted war criminals for doing in japan in world war ii i do not think that you should underestimate that that undermines the moral authority and the security of the country. >> oh please. austan we've got to put in some facts here. the fact is before there was gitmo we had 9/11. before there was gitmo we had the bombing of the coal. before there was gitmo we had

the '98 bombing of the world trade center. >> that's correct. but how is that relevant? >> these guys didn't need anti-america propaganda to fuel their cause. their cause was lit long before gitmo existed. >> how many were doing it and did this lead to more? you've had major military officials in the united states generals saying they don't want the gitmo to be hung around their necks that it is motivating our enemy. >> okay. so you've made your point. sabrina, the fact is that the executive action may be used by this president whenever he is committed to some ideological goal even if it's against the interests of the united states he seems to go with it. >> right, because at this point the president is all but a lame duck right? all we're talking about right now is the 2016 election. this is his opportunity to appeal to the far left of his party to work on his legacy to appeal to people who are excited about him when he first came into office so he leaves with that same enthusiasm. let's remember to austan's point

about an executive order, those are to be reserved for major policy crises not major policy overhauls. not if we want to change our health care system or major military decision. those are for emergency situations. this is not one of them. >> there's another possibility here which is that gitmo of course is on the island of cuba this is a president that's been making a lot of overtures to the castro brothers who pretty much control that island. would this be another gift to them? >> you know that would be so bad if that is the backstory here. boy, the american people would thot be for that. by the way it is immoral to have our troops fight the same enemy twice. and by the way, speaking of morality is it more moral to release these guys than hit them with the drone strike? right, these guys have also basically declared endless infinite -- i mean eternal war on us. that's why we need to keep it open. >> rich i love that point. the fact is we've already fought about these guys and might fight them again. we know a lot of them are on the battlefield again.

>> yeah. i don't understand the logic of this at all except that there's a peculiar logic. and austan kind of hinted at it that president obama feels that we have tarnished the american brand. but among who? you know among university professors? among leftists on you know in the press? among people in the u.n.? i don't think around the world we've tarnished our brand at all. i think our brand has to do with strength. >> well again, john to austan's point you look at what has happened over the past six years. things have gotten worse. our brand seems to have gotten worse as the president has been pulling back trying to whittle down his phrase, what's going on in gitmo. >> yeah again, i don't like all the use of the military around the world. i think it's dangerous, but if we are going to use military force i want to have a really bad brand. i want it to be that we really beat the hell out of our opponents so they don't do more of this. if we're going to be at war, let's be at war.

>> that's the last word from john. meanwhile, the disaster after the disaster. folks desperate for federal help after getting hit hard by bad storms but they could soon be denied that help if they don't give in to president obama's climate change agenda. is

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has vast experience in fighting domestic terror. now back to bulls and bears. okay we have -- mike we have a roof that just flew through the air here. i don't know where it came from. >> wow. twisters battering the plains this week. dozens injured, homes and businesses flattened. no doubt they're going to need federal emergency funds to recover. but some disaster funds could soon be held back if fema doesn't like the state's plan to combat climate change. now, mike doesn't this strike you as a little bit of blackmail? accept our views on climate change or else? >> david, this is a tyrannical president using fema aid to force his agenda. two years ago there was a very

extensive survey done peer reviewed of over 1,000 scientists. two-thirds of them say climate change and global warming in particular were either not human made or in fact there was nothing we could do to prevent it. >> austan let me just put up what fema's rules would be if they're enacted within a year. and this is according to fema's own statement. they must include, and this is referring to states plans, must include consideration of changing environmental or climate conditions. that strikes me as blackmail. >> you got it. you sound like that oh guy, remember when mt. st. helens blew up and he lived on the side of the mountain and fema tried to get him to move. he said no they're not going to tell me what to do. that guy was never heard from again. >> austan all of the global warming activists have been proven wrong by their forecast. >> they absolutely have not. you are coming from a different

planet. let's contact the astronomers to figure out what you're talking about. >> just one question how many more hurricanes have we had since katrina? >> if you broke -- if you build your house on the san andreas fault, they have every right to say you need to put in earthquake preparedness. if you build your house in the middle of a flood plane, you should put in a sump pump. and if you want fema's money for natural disasters from hurricanes you should take into account the fact that on average everyone believes we're going to have stronger and more frequent hurricanes. >> not everyone. sabrina, the point is al gore was saying after katrina hurricanes are going to be worse that katrina, they're going to continue -- in fact we've had fewer hurricanes since katrina than were expected. a lot fewer. >> you know it's so funny, david. i feel like environmentalists and progressives are so convinced that all these natural disasters are caused by climate change. but you'll remember not very long ago the central issue for

environmentalists was clean air, clean water. this notion that climate change has become a global crisis and something that's causing natural disasters is really in the last 10 or 11 years that suddenly it's exploded. the reality is and austan i think this is so important. south dakota's economy and south dakota's environmental needs are so different than that of california or texas or south carolina. we are in a big country. one size does not fit all. >> rich, you're closer to san andreas fault than i am. i agree with austan if you're living on the san andreas fault, fine. but there are so many questions about the climate change agenda i don't think that should be a part of the reason why you do or don't get disaster relief. >> yeah. so what happens? wichita, kansas gets wiped out by a tornado, but it doesn't get fema funding because it has an airplane industry which pollutes the sky? i mean this stuff gets ridiculous in a hurry. >> is this pc blackmail? >> it's really bad.

are we in -- listen personally i don't like it that the arctic sea ice is melting. i get that. we should not build in floodplains, but what i have a problem with is that the greennies put people in front of an intellectual firing squad if you disagree with them. because the science they think it's settled when it's not really settled. and these models sometimes they're calibrated to pump out opinions. look what happened to florida gop governor rick scott. he said do not use the term climate change in epa -- in the state epa policies. and guess what? the greenies want to investigate him. i think it's really bad. >> john it's happening. those states -- these new rules won't be in effect for another year but it's already beginning to happen. is that right or wrong? >> i think the tragedy here is that fema exists in the first place. look back to hurricane katrina because that's very instructive. if we didn't federalize disasters, let's face it weather is different in all 50 states.

the citizens of new orleans would never have elected such an incompetent as ray nagan who was clue less once fema struck. people might elect people with a clue such that katrina wouldn't have been such a disaster for new orleans residents. >> i don't want to bury the lead here. mike what do you think about john saying fema itself should be eliminated? >> i think he's absolutely right. in john's larger point really i think is the fact the more power we give the federal government the more power they have over dictating our lives and taking away our liberty. >> go ahead, austan. >> you sound exactly like the mt. st. helens guy. fema cannot ignore the science. they need to get us prepared. it's our money. we're the ones paying for fema. if you don't want emergency relief for natural disasters, then that's who should move to -- >> you told my point about

putting people in front of a firing squad if you don't agree with them. scientists who live off grants are pushing agendas. and the wind and solar crowd give to liberals campaigns as well. >> that's the last word. >> meanwhile the cashingin gang is getting ready to roll what do you have? >> our own juan williams confronts the person behind the muhammad cartoon contest. and inner cities like baltimore want more tax money for schools, but we have stats showing taxpayers may already be getting a bad return on their investment. see you at 11:30. >> thanks eric. we will be watching. but up here first, another irs mess this time wasting billions handing out bogus education tax breaks. now a plan to teach it a lesson for good by cutting its budget

when will it end? the irs watchdog saying the tax agency wasting more money this time $5.6 billion more in bogus education tax breaks in 2012. well that one republican lawmaker has a way to make it end. slash the irs budget by the same amount that it wastes. and you say we should do it for all agencies? >> i agree. cut the budget and even cut out whole agencies. when is the government itself going to claire itself systemically risky as it says of the banks? not one more nickel of taxpayer dollars until they fix their shop there in washington, d.c.

the waste fraud and abuse the government could have easily paid for the president's health reform bill which is also loaded with waste, fraud and abuse. >> well austan $125 billion wasted in 2014 across all federal agencies. you got to make these agencies account for the money they're wasting. is this a way to do it? >> no. look people engaged in tax fraud and your answer is let's get rid of the fraud inspectors? if you apply this to meat inspection we will all be dead because as soon as somebody makes a problem we're going to get rid of the people who fine the problem. >> all right, rich i'm supporting austan here now. we have a chart that shows how much less we are spending. we're spending a little bit less on the irs over the past couple of years. does this prove his point that if you spend less you might even get more fraud? >> no not at all. look we're talking about a met static cancer here the cancer

that is the irs tax code. it's so big that whittling at the margins does nothing. it has to be blown up. we have to have radical tax reform then all of this stuff goes away. >> well sabrina, how do you isolate the fraud in order to cut it out? >> well part of it is by shrinking government. one of the reasons people are constantly trying to get out of paying their taxes because they feel the government is constantly harping on them constantly taking away their hard work. when i think about how hard it is to put your taxes together to document every single expense you make so the government knows how you're spending your business dollars, it's absolutely reasonable that people would say it's time to slash the irs's budget. >> i do like the simplicity of this guy's suggestion. you know if you have this much fraud, you get this much less money. >> i like it too. let's go back to 2008 david, that was the record year for the number of tax filings. so relative to the budget there were way more filings in 2008

than they were in 2012. yet we didn't have nearly that much fraud. so don't give me this well if we cut back we won't be able to catch anybody. no we had less money relative to fraud. you don't hire people like lois lerner and all the incompetence the obama administration has hired. >> let austan get in. >> the obama administration didn't hire lois lerner. these are nonpolitical professionals who are there at the irs. >> really? >> if you don't like the fraud in a program, abolish the program. don't abolish the inspectors. it doesn't make any sense. >> we may all agree on that one. abolish the programs themselves. coming up lots of folks working more than 9:00 to 5:00 to make ends meet. the stocks to help you work less and enjoy more. it,

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about to do a big stock buyback. >> david, i love ibm 3% dividend yield. >> that's it forht here. the number one business block continues with eric bolling and cashin' in. isis putting a hit on free speech the terror group now calling for the slaughter of pamela geler for organizing a cartoon contest featuring the prophet muhammad. folks like our very own juan williams thinks she provoked it. here's the fiery exchange earlier this week. >> you have to engage and say, listen this is not the way we as americans live. we do not believe in sharia law. >> you do. you do. you are enforcing sharia law. you are enforcing sharia law. >> how? >> by making me -- >> how are we doing that? >> by making me the bad guy. >> oh my god. >> it was not just a contest. you're not even -- you are not -- >> you are hurting our cause is