david: nicole, thank you very much as bells are about to ring on wall street. it's a down day, could have been a lot worse, but it was -- no getting around it -- it was a down day on all the indices. the dow is down about 36 points, still well above the 18,000 mark. as we see the buttons pushed there. all the indices, as i say, are down. s&p down a tick, nasdaq and the russell 2000. but some very interesting things happening with individual stocks that we're going to get to in just a moment. liz: yeah. we will point it all out to you. let's get to it, "after the bell" starts right now. ♪ ♪ liz: let's break down today's market action, we've got dax shepard with the number one thing he's watching in the markets right now that he says you need to watch. kevin kelly from recom capital

on whether investors should brace for a correction, and todd coleman in the pits of the cme. todd, to you first. what happened? was it that good pending home sales numbers that spooked the market somehow? >> certainly was a strong number, liz, but equities are in a holding pattern after we saw that dip last week. and we've got employment next week, fed speakers telling us why they're going to raise rates or why they might, and i think the market is in a wait-and-see mode. sitting on the highs, probably should be taking some risk off the table and we're not which suggests the market is probably leaning toward a more doveish fed and possibly more steady to non-strong economic data next week. david: so, zack, i would throw the dollar in there. people are really kind of panicking about the dollar. i'm wondering if they're panicking a little too much. >> it's interesting to think about trying to predict future, what's going to happen with the dollar.

i liken it to trying to predict who's going to die next on "the walking dead." [laughter] it's impossible to do. david: good analogy, i like that. >> it's impossible to do. so it's a fulsome game. so trying to predict what's going to happen there, just own the market, own global equities, and what ends up happening is investors tend to cost themselves a lot more trying to predict what's going to happen in the future, and my advice is to keep calm and own the market. liz: keep calm and own the market. okay. so let me get to kevin kelly, because people are always wondering about a correction. especially now when we hit a couple of records, particularly yesterday, and you read front page articles over the weekend about a bubble in technology. are we heading for a bubble implosion or some type of correction? >> well, with all the news that's happening, it's really on macro concerns: what investors need to do is consider a european vacation. so there's plenty of names especially in the tech space that are abroad that u.s. investors can capitalize on. one of them is arm holdings.

it's traded here in adr form on the nasdaq, and it has shipments 60 billion on-base ships that are in -- chips that are in all the smartphones. 95% of smartphones are incorporating arm licensing. liz: kevin, i'm sorry, and i know arm holdings well. we've had the ceo on, it's an amazing company. they're the middleman where the intels of the world will put their chips in their areas, but you didn't answer the question: are you worried about a correction? >> no, we're not worried about a correction. liz: okay. >> the reason why is this time investors are concerned about constantly hitting all-time highs. you get a correction when everybody's euphoric, where they don't see it ending, where they don't see, you know, concerns coming in the way. everyone's seen the concerns. the fed, slowdown in u.s. economic growth. so investors are acknowledging that and still making invest. decisions. david: todd, there's a lot of curiosity about what the fed is obviously going to be doing soon, sooner rather than later. are they setting themself up for

possibly a june rate hike? >> i don't think the fed is setting itself up for a june rate hike. what they're setting themself up for is a june discussion about a possible rate hike in september. and if you go back to may of 2013, we had what was called taper tantrum. ben bernanke talked about possibility of ending the buying program, and the market went haywire. the fed doesn't want the actual tightening to cause that kind of volatility to the market, so they're going to talk it to death, and i think june is going to be the first step in that. i am leaning toward the side they don't go this year because inflation isn't high enough, and growth is going to start the stagnate. ultimately, the fed has to start talking about it in fed context, in meetings with janet yellen sitting there. and when she's not going to be at jackson hole talking about, we're going to have to see stanley fisher talking about, and these have to come more than just blurbs in the headlines on a day-to-day basis. they have to come with real

meetings and real consequences. liz: zack, as todd mentions the seriousness of what the fed's doing, there are a lot of people who are ready for summer and play. your picks have sports themes. churchill downs is in it, speedway motor sports and finish line. why? >> yeah, i want investors not to speculate and gamble here just like they do at the track. these are examples of microcap stocks. and if you add them to a globally diversified portfolio of over 12,000 stocks and you rebalance highs and lows, just, for example, microcap stocks are up over 280% since the crash, and most investors don't even have them in their portfolio. david: well, talk about fun, kevin, you like diagio. they make fun stuff. >> yeah. if you like to celebrate, you've had some of their products including bailey's, guinness is a strong stout that they sell, kettle one, summer -- smirnoff.

they're traded here in the u.s. as well, deo. it spits off a 2.3% dividend yield as well as they're not trading at euphoric highs. so if you're starting to pick and choose, i mean, this is a company that is fairly valued as well as not at a 52-week high. david: buy low. liz: todd, before we go, tomorrow we're getting a piece of data -- arguably not the most important in the world, but when people see g, d and p, even though it's a revision number, they get nest. what do you expect for in? we're hearing a print that goes negative. what are you hearing? >> yep. i think this fist quarter of gdp has been talked over and over again, and the fed made it clear that number is yesterday. we're not worried about that. july 30th they're going to reach the second quarter gdp, that's the number we need to hang our hat on for any kind of fed tightening in the third quarter of this year. david: okay. zack shepard, kevin kelly, kevin colvin, thank you all. we've got to update you on the

death toll from that massive storm that hit the midwest. it has caused 36 deaths now being reported, 14 in new mexico, 17 in texas and four in oklahoma. ten people are still missing. more rain fell in the hard-hit houston area today, temporarily complicating the cleanup efforts after a down power of almost -- downpour of almost a foot of rain. as many as 1400 homes in houston have been damaged by flooding. texas governor greg abbott has declared more than 45 counties disaster areas. liz: although those deadly rainstorms have tapered off, many cities are still in danger of flooding. david: fox news' rick reichmuth has the latest from the weather center. >> the problem is the ground is so saturated from, in many cases, 18-20 inches of rain this month, so any more rain on top of that, and you very quickly get flooding. severe weather also the threat for the day today, western parts of kansas, nebraska, eastern part of colorado, the panhandles

of texas and oklahoma, a little bit part of new mexico, but some of these storms are not moving very quickly. in fact, there isn't anything in the upper level pattern that is moving these storms along very quickly throughout the daytime. so you see these reds, that quickly can drop 2-3 inches of rain and cause flooding on the ground that has been so saturated. but we're watching severe weather, very strong winds, and i think by the afternoon hours we're going to be seeing some tornadoes possibly move through western texas as well. all right, i want to quickly talk about one benefit of all of this rain. go back about six week, and you can see we still had a lot of drought going on in texas and oklahoma, severe and extreme and exceptional drought. go to where we are now and just barely kind of some dry or moderate drought. all of this severe drought has been completely wiped out. by next week i think we'll see that even a little bit further gone. but because of the rain we're going to see and because of the saturated ground, we still have flooding concerns. flash flooding across eastern parts of oklahoma and flooding

concerns from kansas all the way down towards the big bend of texas. again, what we're going to see throughout the day today is maybe an inch of rain falling with some of these thunderstorms, then we go into the day tomorrow, we see probably same areas here along the red river valley about another inch of rain and then into saturday we have a little bit more, and then it's done. by sunday we watch all of this pattern begin to finally change, and we're going to dry things out across much of texas, which is going to be great news. where we do see those little bit of storms there, we could be watching a little bit more localized flooding. severe weather today, that threat again. i think we'll see a few tornadoes. tomorrow still another threat of that. but, guy, we still have to get some rain done here, probably 2-3 inches in spots through saturday and then sunday and much of next week things are looking much drier which is great news for the folks there. david silver lining, no more drought. at least there is some good news. liz: excellent point. so while visa, mcdonald's, hyundai have come out with harsh

words against fifa soccer, none of them has actually backed out. do these companies have the spine to pull out, or is the lure of millions of viewers just too much? david: also a new report saying russia is massing troops and weaponry right on border of ukraine. and this is coming just as the e.u. is starting to find its economic footing. will this send europe back into a recession? liz: and jpmorgan ceo jamie dimon calling his shareholders "lazy." could this backfire and lead some to dump the stock, or was this an interesting twist of words to send a message to a totally different organization? we debate it. ♪ ♪

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liz: a fox business news alert, bmw s expanding its recalls due to potentially deadly takata airbags. this after the japanese manufacture of the airbags last week boosted the number of vehicles affected to 53 million. the german automaker is recalling a total of 420,000 vehicle process the years 2002-2006 model years. so far six people have been killed and more than 100 injured due to the airbag problem. david: and we have a fox business alert. russian troops, tanks, rocket

launchers and artillery were photographed moving near the ukraine border within the past 24 hours. the question is why? are the russians planning further aggression against ukraine, and could europe be dragged into another recession? joining me now is kim holmes, former assistant secretary of state under george w. bush. kim, what do you think russia's up to? >> well, you know, it's hard to say. they've done this before. of course, last summer in august they turned up the heat by not only amazing troops -- amassing troops on border, but sending troops into i ukraine. it could be partly some rotation of troops, could be responding to nato exercises that occurred in the baltics or in georgia, or -- and this is my favorite theory -- i think they're trying to turn the heat up because they know the europeans are going to be having a meeting in june of the european union, and this is when possibly there'll be a lot of discussion on whether to continue the sanctions. and one of putin's favorite

tactics is to turn up the heat and then turn it off. it scared the daylights out of the europeans, but when he releases that, they feel like perhaps this is something, i don't want to go through an awfully lot, because i think his overall strategy is to try to get the sanctions against russia lifted. david: well, i'm just wondering if he does have overall game plans that include taking over more of ukraine if not all of ukraine, wouldn't he want to do that during this administration? because after that reset i think he has the better of it. he thinks he has it anyway. >> yeah. i think that if he wants to go further, i think he certainly would do that. but i think that probably most likely thing that putin would want to do beyond what he's already done, which is basically create a frozen conflict inside eastern ukraine, if he wanted to step this up a notch, he could try to use his own forces overtly to build a land bridge to crimea or the poor city of

mare poll in the south. but that would be overt. there's nothing you could hide about doing that. it would be clear to the entire world that russian forces invaded ukraine, so that would significantly be upping the ante and that would not, i think, build into his strategy of trying to relieve the sanctions on him. david: now, i'm sure when you were at the state department, you had to game out various possibilities, and i'm sure this administration is doing the same. what do you think they think is going to happen to europe if russia becomes even more aggressive than it has been? >> well, the europeans are, of course, dealing with a very slow economy with the perception of perhaps a british economy, even the german economy is suffering. and the last thing the european economy needs and the stock market needs there is more uncertainty and more terror coming out of what's happened in ukraine. i think that if i were in putin's shoes, i know that if i raised the temperature by putting these troops on the ukrainian border, i create more uncertainty on the europeans who

are worried about the economy, and this creates just another incentive for them to try to to lobby the united states to lift the sanctions. keep in mind the secretary of state, john kerry, had a meeting with putin just over a week ago in sochi, and the signal coming from that was clearly the united states is going to start pulling back on its pressure on ukraine. and i'm sure that the europeans got the message if the americans are not being all that hard line, then we can start trying to lobby for lifting the sanctions. so i think this is pretty much in putin's mind, he's trying to game this out how he can get the sanctions lifted. david: quick last question, kim, hillary's reset with putin clearly was a disaster. after the reset is when they went into the crimea, etc. do you think he might be hoping that hillary clinton wins the election? [laughter] >> who knows what he's hoping. i think what he certainly hopes for is he doesn't want to have a strong u.s. president who's going to be pushing back harder on him, because he's got the best of all possible worlds right now. if you have the situation where

the united states is the weak read and the europeans in some cases even the french are stronger on the russians and ukraine than the americans are, this is just a wonderful thing in putin's mind. and, certainly, that is not something he would want to change. and if he were looking at the former secretary of state as the next president, you could see how he may draw the conclusion that you could get more of the same under that president that you've had under in this one. david: kim holmes, former assistant secretary of state, thank you for being with us, appreciate it. we want to hear from you as well. do you think russia will invade ukraine? send us a message on facebook or tweet us @fbnatb. your answers coming up. liz? liz: david, more positive housing data came out today as pending home sales hit nine-year highs. so with the housing market appearing to be on more solid footing, will that be what finishes the fed rather -- what pushed the fed rather than better jobs numbers? speaking of housing,

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it's part sports car and part suv. and the best part? the 2015 gla. it's 100% mercedes-benz. david: time for a hook at today's markt drivers. the nasdaq pulling back from its record close as stocks drop on the heels of lower markets in europe. industrials and utilities led today's decline. gold settling higher, the precious metal ended the day up $2.50 at $1,188 per ounce. and the number of americans filing for first-time job benefits unexpectedly climbed last week to 282,000. liz: today with our panel, so we mentioned it, right? pending home sales at the highest level in nine years. will the federal reserve be pushed to raise rates by the

housing numbers over the jobs numbers? what's more important now? plus, jpmorgan' cease owe jamie -- ceo jamie dimon lashing out at shareholders, calling them lazy. but first, to fifa soccer, some companies opted not to renew with the organization way back in december. they didn't really say why but, boy, you could read between the lines. here's the question: will current sponsors that didn't back out -- coca-cola, visa -- will they have the spine the follow suit? should they? we bring in our panel. a lot of money at work here, paul screen ya, phil flynn, price futures group senior market analyst and fox business contributor. paul, $1.6 billion in sponsorship money floated fifa over the last big world cup. you have hyundai, visa, coca-cola, budweiser, the list goes on. they're still in. >> if you're a sponsor, what the justice department did is the

greatest thing in the world for you because it took all the pressure off. look, everyone has known for a long time that fifa was a corrupt organization. everyone thought it. it's not a secret, right? the time to be courageous as a sponsor would have been a year ago or two years ago. now you can just sit there and say, well, the justice department is going to root out the corruption, they're going to have a cleaner fifa, this is something we can -- liz: this may take years. yeah, okay, starting with a huge favor. but it takes years, phil, to shake out the real dirt that's involved here. i mean, at the moment we have a clean, so-called clean president of fifa who has been running this thing for four terms. so i'm just wondering, does coke stay in here? why? they've all issued statements saying we're watching the situation closely. we demand ethical behavior. >> yes. we demand ethical behavior, but if you ever look at the passion and the rabid fans of soccer and

of fifa, it's probably not going to happen. there are billions of dollars at staking, and the reason why these advertisers want to be part of this is because their fans want them to be part of it. now, for me, it's lost on me. soccer? it's kind of like hockey without the ice, right? [laughter] but worldwide, this thing is huge. liz: huge. it's in every single country in the world. >> it's in every -- that's right. i know, that's what i'm saying. these people want to be part of it. listen, even the fans have known for some time that there's been shenanigans at the top. that's been going on for some time. they're not going to leave the sport. they're going to double down on the sport. and believe it or not, you know, when the next world cup comes around, you're just going to be worried about whether their team's going to win or not. liz: okay. maybe they say now it's cleaner, we'll get back in. watch sony because they were the ones who were gutsy enough to get out along with castrol and, of course, continental. so we'll see if they come back. >> yeah. liz: let's get to pending home

sales. that's a number that we found very interesting. sales hit a nine-year high in april. these are contracts, right? will the fed be pushed to raise rates by what we've seen as middle and better housing data rather than the jobs numbers which in a way have been a little spotty here, phil? >> i agree with you. i think maybe even a little bit disturbing to the fed that we're seeing this big jump in home sales -- [laughter] liz: because they don't want to hike, right? >> no. i don't think they want to. and, you know, i think what else is disturbing, you know, these housing numbers have been very sporadic, and the housing jump may be in response in part to the fed flooding each rate. so that could be a short-term bob. we also had some weather issues earlier in the year that could have held back some sales, but if i were the fed, i'd be worried that the bubble that got us into this mess seems to be leading the recovery. i'd be a little suspect and a little bit worried. so i think for the fed, it's jobs, jobs and jobs. the housing numbers, not so

much. liz: okay. paul, the first-time jobless claims did rise more than expected, but the four week average still looks pretty darn good. >> the jobs numbers look pretty good -- liz: which one matters more to the fed, jobs or housing? >> jobs. by a long shot, jobs. by a long shot. what phil said about the housing market is right. by a long shot, it's jobs. they're not going to be swayed by pending home sales. within jobs what matters even more than that are the wages, wage growth, and the labor force participation rate. it's a really wonky number, but the fed is paying close attention. this means how many people who could be working either are working or are looking for work. and you have millions of people who have dropped out of the lay a boar force. we've talked about for a long time. until you start to see those people come back in, until they have a reason to to come in because wages are going higher, you're going to have a labor market that the numbers make it look a little better than it is, actually, and the fed is keeping -- that's why the fed is so slow to jump, pull the

trigger. liz: it also doesn't help that a lot of global companies are not as strong at the moment. let's get to jamie dimon. he called stockholders "lazy." why though? he called them lazy for clinging to voting guidance from advisory firms like iss and glass lewis rather than making their own decisions. guys, we all know that what these companies like glass lewis do is they tell shareholders of certain companies we don't think you should vote for such and such's pay package or for so and so to stay on the board. i think this was a slam not at shareholders, phil, but at iss. >> i think you're right, absolutely. and i hate to say it, in a weird way, he's right, you know? but, you know, it's the same way with the election, you know? we listen to the democratic and republican party telling us who to vote for. but, you know, 60% of the people that are voting really don't know what the issues are, you know? it becomes a popularity contest.

and i think what dimon is saying, you know, when it comes to these decisions, you know, your money and your leadership for these stocks, you should do your homework.but most people ao do it, and that's the fact of the matter. liz: paul, though, i don't know how shareholders would feel when they simply see a short headline that says jamie dimon calls -- >> as a journalist, you've got to love somebody who can give us a lot of fodder and fun things to play around with. the thing that i think -- look, i'm not in jamie dimon's position, but, i mean, the fact of matter is they're paying billions of dollars in legal settlements. they were just part of a guilty plea with the federal regulators. he has black marks on his record. so the fact that some people voted against the pay package that the board put forth, maybe he should consider that they weren't being lazy, they were looking at what has happened at jpmorgan. yes, the firm's profitable, yes, the stock has gone up, but they have a lot of black marks on

their record lately, and it's a little arrogant to assume that investors don't see that at all. liz: the a word that we see with banking leaders sometimes, arrogance. hey, we saw it with dick fuld today coming back out. great to have both of you, paul, phil, thank you so much. david? >> thank you. david: well, not buying renewable energy, exxon ceo mincing no words about why he is not putting carbon haters on his board. and déjà vu allover again, one -- all over again, one big money investor says subprime very different now and could be a good bet. don't go anywhere, we'll be right back.

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david: reports just coming out of rome that the pope's encyclical on climate change has been delayed due to internal disputes about coverage, this coming as exxon's ceo publicly belittled allowing carbon energy opponents on their board. exxon has not invested in materials because, quote: we choose not to lose money on purpose. shareholders also voted down a proposal to add a climate change advocate to exxon's board. exxon's been lobbying the vatican over the climate change message, the oil company want toss make sure pope francis is briefed on its position before the letter is finalized. liz: the word "subprime" might

spark nightmares coming, of course, from the recession. brad friedlander is managing partner at angel oak capital, $5 billion in assets under management. i'm nervous just saying it, brad. [laughter] what is your sort of newer definition of subprime? >> we do want to make sure that history does not repeat itself, all of us involved in the investment community. and it is very different right now. i think lending standards, attaining a loan, obtaining a loan postcrisis has been extraordinarily difficult for so many people. and the lending restrictions have been so tight that just any marginal movement outside of those standards is now being labeled as nonprime. but that's where we're seeing the most opportunity in our strategies as bond investors simply because as an investor, there's misperception of credit risk. from a yield and an income standpoint, you can achieve much higher yields investing.

liz: in what form do these new subprime investment vehicles, you know, what form do they take, and how do we invest this in them this we so choose to? >> it's good we're talking about this now, because there's really no securities that exist at this point that have been created or bonds that have been created that really possess those subprime qualities yet. but we're very close to that, having that happen. and that, and right now it's really in the form of loans. that's where you're going to see this, in loan packages as an investor. liz: okay. now i'm nervous again, brad, because this is exactly -- look, today, dick fuld of lehman brothers who was the king of putting together these packaged franken loans and things like that and then selling them off, this is what brought the entire market to its knees. >> right. well, here are the canaries in the coal mine that we need to be careful of, and there are a number of flags. if we pass any of those flags or hit those marks, i'll be the first one to raise my hand.

it's going to be loan to value, how much skin in the game does borrower have. are they putting down a large down payment or 5, 3, 0% that we all saw has been in the bubble years. those are one of the key concerns we need to be careful about. also volume, originations. it's a dormant market, so really what you have is a market that was shut down, basically dormant since crisis and is now beginning to normalize because right now the standards are too tight. i'm sure many of us have spoken to borrowers out there -- liz: i had trouble getting a mortgage. ben bear bernanke had trouble gg refinanced. [laughter] >> that's right, it's very difficult. this is just a return to normalcy. we all need to be collectively careful and let common sense prevail. liz: let's say you've sold someover our viewers on this. i'm just saying, what do they do, how can they invest? >> this year's going to be an interesting year because i think we're going to begin to see a lot more securitization of those types of new subprime or

nonprime loans. those will be an area that we're going to pay particular attention to in our public mutual fund. and in the meantime, we do have those available in our, in our private funds. liz: is there a limit or a basic industry number that people have to to put down to be in there? >> typically in a mutual fund there is not a sizable limit, but certainly you need to be an accredited investor through limited partnerships. liz: right. you've got to go through that process. i'm not saying i'm sold, brad -- [laughter] but i'm pretty hopeful for at least some viewers if they believe in you to take a look at this. thank you. come back again. >> great, thanks. liz: brad friedlander. david? david: great stuff. subprime isn't the only relic trying to make a comeback, so's former lehman brothers' chief dick fuld, but will some questionable investments stop him from getting a second chance on wall street? charlie gasparino's all over this story coming next. and is this the next golden investment, gold miners have been in a bear market for four

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history is making his first public appearance in seven years. charlie gasparino joining us with the exclusive details. >> we did a report on foxbusiness.com which talked about exactly what he's been doing since lehman. today was his first public comments. he hasn't said anything about lehman brothers, the financial crisis, since he was hauled before a congressional subcommittee, i believe, in november 2008. lehman went under in september 2008, and he was basically grilled by these congressmen, and he became at that point the face of wall street. maybe the negative face of wall street, i guess you could say -- david: a dubious honor. >> the story we did today on foxbusiness.com coincided with his speech at a microcap conference. microcap is another word for penny stocks, and the story talked about how he's involved in these very risky, small companies, advising them and putting out deals including one company which the deal blew up. it's called the end of car, you can read about it on foxbusiness.com, and there's a tragic element to this more than

people losing money. one of the people involved in the company recently hung himself as fox business was investigating it. so i think you should read that whole yarn. but, you know, the upshot is this: dick fuld really didn't say much during this speech, particularly about lehman brothers. it was a lot of blather. why didn't he say much in well, look at his brokerage records. he still has pending sec investigations, sec investigation about lehman that is still pending. david: that's been going on a long time. >> listen, i thought i misread it on his broke arage license, on -- broke ridge license, it's a finra document from the financial, the regulatory authorities. i thought i misread it. it says "pending," and it's the latest one. new jersey department of securities and other civil suits are pending against him. so really speaking at this thing he couldn't do too much. he couldn't say too much. one other point i want to make, john mack is an adviser to kkr right now, former head of morgan

stanley. lloyd blankfein still own runs goldman sachs. dick fuld is now a deal maker in the penny stock business. it shows you how far he's flown, including the sort of very troubled deal we talk about -- david: well, the one in the -- it sort of reminds me of the man behind the curtain in "the wizard of oz." even when he was running lehman, whether he was more smoke and mere -- mirrors than the real thing? >> that's a good question. we should point out he put his money in this -- i guess you could say it's dubious -- company in dakar when he was a ceo of lehman brothers. he did not take money -- david: at one point, by the way, it was valued at a lot of money. >> who knows what the value -- david: now we know the value's zero. >> the guy who ran the company, robert wall of course, and touting that -- david: by the way, the guy who committed suicide, he had invested his wife's money in it, right? >> his wife's money -- you've

got to read the whole story. it's a little too long to bring it down to sound bites, but giving you the long and the short of it is that dick fuld, you know, and this is what the other networks are not reporting. dick fuld is now, you know, cnbc is making it like he's back deal making. all of a sudden -- dick fuld is in the penny stock business, and i think if these networks are going to sugar coat this, they're doing the public a great disservice. penny stocks, just for the average guy, they're incredibly risky. there's a lot of frauds in the penny stock arena. therethey're known euphemisticas microcaps. and most of those stocks trading over counter in what's known as the pink sheets, right? they don't trade on the new york stock exchange, the nasdaq, they don't meet their listing requirements. most of those stocks -- and this is what cnbc is not talking about today, and it does a disservice to the small investor -- most of those companies don't make it. david: by the way, for his side he blames hank paulson, treasury secretary at the time, for not

bailing out lehman, right? >> in terms of the bailout, yes, he does that. but, you know, and here's the thing, the tragedy of dick fuld, listen, i've written a whole book about this. we can have a very interesting debate about who's really at fault. i will say this, the tragic thing about dick fuld is that he, if he wants to be on wall street, the one place that'll take him is this fringe called penny stocks, and that's -- and i feel bad for him. david: that's a tragedy. >> i feel bad for him for that. david: but at the same time -- you've got to read this piece. this is a kind of weekend-reading piece, a lot of details. foxbusiness.com has it all. take it and read it over weekend. >> i can't make this point strongly enough, he's involved -- i'm telling you, in a risky bids. cnbc, i don't know why they're protecting -- david: why do you think? >> the only thing i can think of is maybe they get advertising from him. i don't know. david: who knows? >> the reporters have to know that he is involved in penny stocks, you know? david: charlie gasparino, wonderful reporting. >> thank you. david: good stuff, charlie.

thanks. liz: well, huge companies, gold miners have been in a bear market for nearly four years, but now the sector is starting to show signs of life, even outperforming the dow and the s&p at least year to date. david: but with gold up only $2 this year, are they a worthy investment? with us now is david steinberg, dls capital managing partner. great to see you. >> great to see you guys. david: conventional wisdom has always been when the dollar goes up, gold goes down, but there's been this strange occurrence we've had over various parts where the dollar has gone up and gold as well. why do you think that is? >> right. let's put this in framework. four years of a bear market, okay? you've got these companies cutting back on production, cutting back on their costs, everything. you're going to see gold going into what's called a deficit in the next 18 months which means there's not going to be as much supply put out by miners as

there's actually demand can. even if demand is just flat. you've had the etfs basically throw off gold in 2013. you still have all the standard, regular economic supply and demand going in your favor as well as, as i said, cost cutting and pullbacks n. a commodity business, these stocks are down of 60-80%, the miners. and this is the kind of environment that can set up for a multiyear rally. liz: a year ago we had people saying the miners are beaten down, get in. >> right. liz: a little too early. why do you say now is the time? >> i could still be early, okay? but you're getting closer to the inflection point of this gold deficit. and when gold does rally, with a miner profits drop right to the bottom line. so if you really leaned yourself out, that is a perfect environment for a turn. so we'll see. i mean, the next 12 -- but on a per-share basis, you can buy gold mine hers at $140 an ounce proven in the ground with

950-$1,000 of what's called all-in costs, okay? that's what it really takes. so they're not profitable here. but you've taken so much whats i out, and you've got china buying, they're not letting an ounce leave china, or russia. david: say you've convinced the audience. where specifically do i put my money? >> in general, broad base at the bottom. but if you have to get started right now, you start with the larger companies. david: newmont -- >> i think it's up 40% year. you've got you manna -- david: wouldn't you want to buy a stock that's down? >> actually, the valuations are far less than newmont. but at the bottom of these horrible cycles, your institutional investors are going to buy the big ones first -- david: so even though newmont is up 40, maybe that would be a safer bet. >> it might be safe freres the way the price trades -- safer from the way the price trades. not necessarily the fife-year

return -- five-year return. not even close. liz: what if the fed tightens in june? does that have any effect on gold or gold miners? >> right now, my gosh, it goes up a quarter of a point, no one's going to want to finance good. it took 20% interest rates to break back of gold in the '80s. it's irrelevant, frankly, from 0-.25. if you do mean regression, if you were a gold bug and believed in the currency, it's got to be multiples higher than where it's trading. but i'm not even talking about this. i'm just talking about basic supply and demand, 60% going into jewelry and a standard, old-fashioned deficit and extraordinarily depressed values. it's a lot of the right elements lining up together for potentially great -- david: thanks for bringing this to us, good to see you. liz: nice to have you. david: well, amazon is rolling out a brand new offer, and it could save some of its customers a lot of cash. you want to hear how much and how to save, coming next. liz: and amazon, watch out. google is taking on e-commerce

sites with its latest move to become a one-stop shop for consumers. we've got that coming up. >> hi, everybody, i'm gerri willis. coming up on my show at the top of the hour, the irs isn't doing anything to protect your identity or your wallet. we are. how to keep your identity and your tax refunds safe from criminals. we'll tell you. that's just one of the big stories coming up on the willis report in just a few minutes.

. >> amazon is rolling out a brand-new delivery deal. the online retail giant will begin offering free same-day delivery on orders over 35 bucks to customers who subscribe to $99 a year prime service. same-day delivery is available in 12 metro areas and will expand to the san diego and tampa bay regions. >> i'm a prime member, look forward to that. google is going to give people the ability to buy products directly. you search for something and you click on the buy button, boom, you own it. >> could it be a game-changer? we put jo ling kent on the case. >> it's coming very soon. the head chief officer over at google says it is imminent. you know what this means for amazon? a lot more competition, people go straight to amazon into the search bar and say i need a cool blue dress instead of

going to google. with the buy button they hope to -- >> one click. >> this is a big game changer and coming on the same day they're rolling out android pay for mobile devices, looks a lot like apple pay, another big deal there. there is a lot going on here with google. and looking at how is google innovating versus apple and amazon. there is so much competition in the space. would you go for the buy button? >> i did until i found out the only concept us that search for that come up are sponsored search. you might not get the best deal. >> right now or soon to be this buy button will only be in paid ad. that is an important point. >> who says that's the best choice? i want the cheapest of the exact same thing. >> they're able to drive the price down. >> amazon is 99 bucks for the prime members, google you are paying less for the same service. >> google express is a

different kind of service, that's shipping service. the buy button is the gateway into that entire ecosystem. >> jo ling kent, thank you very much. thank you so much for joining us. "the willis report" is next. >> see you tomorrow. gerri: hello, everybody. i'm gerri willis, and this is "the willis report," the show where consumers are our business. tonight the fbi now looking into the theft of personal tax information of more than 100,000 taxpayers. why couldn't the irs keep people safe? and more evacuations ordered in texas as the rains continue to fall, and flooding just keeps getting worse. we'll have a live report. and the fcc says it's going to make it easier for consumers to stop the annoying robocalls, you know the ones at dinner. will their plan work? "the willis report" starts right now. is your tax refund