way to short the 10-year treasury bond if rates rise prices fall. >> ben. >> a usmv minimum volatility good returns. >> i want to thank you all. e weekend. we'll see you next week. whole new schedule for you. 36 homicides in the last 27 days alone in baltimore city. this is absolutely unacceptable. once you disenvow your law enforcement officers you can no longer expect them to protect you. they're very fearful to go out there and be preactive. >> fearful and disavow. that's how he describes the baltimore police department. as the city sees a surge in violence and homicides this year. other places also seeing a spike, including denver new york city chicago. now, some here are saying all of the police bashing and reversals of crime prevention policies are putting our lives and our

economies at risk. are they right or wrong? hi everybody, welcome to "forbes on fox." i think it's pretty simple when you pull back on policies that prevent crime, you get a lot more crime. >> the so-called broken windows. you go after small crimes. that prevents big crimes. in new york city you have the city council ready to turn these crimes into summons. if you urinate on the street cops can't do much about it. when people get that message, you see crime go up. the great progress of the last 20 years literally goes out the window because broken window theory's under attack for political reason. >> the cop bashing that's going on. cops are worried about getting arrested or worse, if they go out and do their job. >> well i think, as you know chicago's crime issues have been in the national attention for several years now. i think what some of the police

tell me is they need more police and they need better trained police. and also the mayor just gave his inaugural speech and he talked about how we need to stir up some more civil engagement in these neighbors where people are not growing up in a community where they have any hope. >> i think we have enough of this civil engagement going on. all of these loud protesters by the way, when it comes to what's happening now, this major increase in violence crime in america, they're pretty sealant. in fact, our own leland vitters spoke to the baltimore mayor about that. >> we all witnessed how upset you were and how outraged you were by the death of freddie gray. why is it that it seems as though you were more outranged by the death of gray than you were outraged and upset and leading rallies over the death of 30-plus people who died from homicides this month? >> again, you can choose to be selective about my track record if you'd like.

mischaracterize, but it's just not true i've led -- >> -- all the deaths of the people this month? are you planning one? >> no answer. i mean that is outrageous. >> pretty selective in her answer. so it's true. i hear exactly what you're saying. we also have these liberal academics and, you know, people who are writing from santa barbara or the upper west side of manhattan critiquing broken windows. they don't live in poor communities. they only see the barred windows in homes in these communities if they go to google street view. i'll tell you something, thousands are alife today because of the broken windows theory. petty crime is a gateway to bigger crime. criminals love they adore, a vacuum. >> let's look at how many thousands of lives. 2,262 murders.

thousands of people are alive today because of the crime prevention methods that worked. >> yeah that's absolutely right. when you look at the stats, you see the curve really goes up. it peaked around 1990 as you talk about. broken windows theory came along in the 1980s and it really had a huge effect. >> i think crime prevention for the past 25 years has been one of the most successful things this country has ever done when you think of the thousands of lives that have been saved, the billions of dollars that have been saved. the businesses that were created. >> most of our really big cities like new york and i was in new york this week are wonderful places to live now. they've become safe they're beautiful, they've done a lot.

i think the issue of deep policing is one that seems to be plaguing a lot of smaller cities. but i think what's left out of the conversation is the role that lawmakerings are playing in this. while i'm a huge supporter of broken windows, i think lawmakers have put police in the position of revenue raisers. they have police arresting people more often than they need to. it's sort of a vicious cycle. then the police say, okay we're going to back off and not police at all. it's very dangerous. >> let's be specific about what we're talking about. things like stop and frisk. where if you see somebody who the police suspect is carrying a weapon and they're involved in a small infraction you can stop them. you can frisk them. very of en the police would find weapons on these folks and that's what stops the crimes. >> i think there may be sort of an economic story here. you think about in business what happens during the good times.

we sort of get flappy and we develop bad habits. that's the beauty of recessions they force us to cleanse those bad habits. i wonder if police forces and mainers have gotten a little about too comfortable, and that maybe this is the result. good news about these numbers, maybe it's going to force them to get back ton the basics. >> well i don't know. steve, you see the protests are continuing. of course not protests about what's happening now with the murder rate but the protest about what's been happening with the cop shootings, which very often have not been increasing. those stats are totally overblown. but that's -- these protests are what's driving policies as ill informed as they are. >> in new york the former commissioner kelly, and the current commissioner bratton, have made very clear, in public and behind the scenes that what the mayor is doing is undermining the police department. more and more police officers are feeling that if they do their job, they're just putting

themselves in harm's way. protesters lawsuits and the like. and baltimore, you have a dysfunctional mayor, dysfunctional city prosecutor. the cops are just throwing up their hands and adding we don't know what to do. >> it's not just the local government the federal government is getting involved. the president. the justice department is getting involved. listening to protesters as ill informed as they are as really unconscientious, i should say, as they are about the statistics they use. >> well i think when there's publicity about any of this i mean i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. i think in the 90s, some of these times when crime rates did go on we did put more cops on streets and even memorial day weekend in chicago the murder rate went up. a lot of shootings. the answer was putting cops on overtime to work this. they're saying there's not enough of them on the street. >> but, again, what's happening now, as a result of the al sharptons and his friend in the justice department and in the white house, by the way, is that

we're putting the fear of god in a lot of the law enforcers and they're afraid to make the arrests that need to be made. >> yeah we really do need to support our cops and our police officers. the good guys on the front lines doing that job every day. absolutely there are bad cops. we get that. we don't want anyone killed by a bad cop. we're talking about broken windows theory and how it has stopped a lot of big crime. liberals also write these petty crime laws they're now wining about. >> nothing create ace conservative a liberal, like a crime. >> or a mugging. >> it's interesting to note that even some of the liberals who work for fox news voted for mayor juneallygiuliani second time around. >> when you have good policing people like that. we forgot what it was like when we didn't have effective policing methods.

>> yeah something's got to change. thank you very much. coming up next forget democratic challengers. carly fiorina is challenging hillary clinton over one of hillary's key platforms, equ if you're taking multiple medications does your mouth often feel dry? a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications. but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. that's why there's biotene available as an oral rinse toothpaste, spray or gel. biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. remember, while your medication is doing you good a dry mouth isn't biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth. you are looking at two airplane fuel gauges. can you spot the difference? no? you can't see that? alright, let's take a look. the one on the right just used 1% less fuel than the one on the left. now, to an airline a 1% difference could save enough fuel to power hundreds of flights around the world.

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guests include formal naval commander general wesley clark. join me. hillary clinton getting another democratic contender today but it is a republican presidential candidate who's really been challenging her. carly fiorina taking hillary to task over equal pay. >> do not meet their metrics for equal pay for equal work. we know as well that the federal government is a seniority system. which means they don't pay for performance. they pay for time and grade. >> sabrina's been following all this. >> one of the things i like most about carly fiorina is she is in a position to take on and has been doing a great job. the sort of centerpiece of a democratic platform which has

become women in the workplace, pay equity child care subsidies. she does it very effectively. we of course all want a fair workplace but progress ins have often portrayed the workplace as openly hostile and i think fiorina is saying enough is enough and she's doing a great job. >> is carly right about equal pay? >> i don't think so. i'm glad to hear a republican talking about the pay gap. but i think with seniority, you do get some institutional knowledge and the reality is only 15% -- fewer than 15% of women are in a union but when they are in a union, represented organized labor, they are paid more -- than women who are not. so those are some of the facts. >> here's specifically what carly said about seniority. the federal government is a seniority system which means they don't pay for performance. which know for example, that a man can sit in a federal government job and watch pornography all day long while

he earns the same pay as a woman sitting next to him trying to do a good job. >> i'm glad she's bringing this up. i'm so tired of these preachy, you know teachers faculty lounge democrats lecturing the private sector about equal pay when look what's going on in our $18 trillion costs of the federal government. in the long run, their democratic policies only end up in equal pay one way. that's the fallout of that. the point needs to be said that more than 37% to half of the federal workforce is unionized and that's why seniority is such a big problem there. >> she is turning into quite the campaign isn't she? >> she really is. carly wallace a person who paid her way through stanford. her dad was a judge. by running a hair salon and then later she ran $100 billion company. you know let's give her credit for knowing what she's talking about. >> full disclosure didn't you go to school with her? >> yeah i was a classmate of

her. >> all right. steve, what do you think of this? is it possible that somebody from the private sector like carly focusing on this subject, which is so key to hillary's campaign could really pull the rug out from hillary on this? >> yes, when she's hammering home just traveling the world is not going some place to actually get something done. traveling versus achievement. and so because of her past background as an executive, i think she's got the standing so to speak to really take her on. and what she's pointing out is rhetoric is one thing, reality is quite another. and hillary mouth these things but can't practice them. fiorina can say, i've been there, i know what it's like to get real things done. >> nothing makes americans matter than unfairness of the seniority system where somebody not working gets more pay. >> i think what she's hitting on is the fact that the only way as a country our standard of living can continue to improve is if productivity improves output per person.

that's why incentives to rather than seniority, are important. that's really i think what she's driving home here. >> because you've been studying this for so long you know how en engrained in the democratic culture this is. they think they own the story. could it be taken away from them? >> oh it absolutely is. as more and more people on the right are pushing back many democrats have had to say, you're right, we're wrong, including the white house. i think one of the most important things as mike is pointing out, that fiorina offers in this cationonversation is there are things businesses can do to make sure the workplace is fair for men and women. and the one thing that will ensure it's not fair is something like the paycheck fairness act. we can disagree on the issue of seniority. i think she's on to something. the reality is there's stuff we can do, we have control over, and it's not more legislation. >> the idea seniority really does grate against the american character, don't you? >> i think there's cases that

upset people like just because you have been somewhere a long time you get most of the vacation. a lot of places will look at workers and say you have an institutional knowledge, you have been here a long time you know this better than somebody who just got here. >> mike is disagreeing. >> that's a load of crop p crap. the bottom line -- listen the reason why people are against union, the reason why scott walker was so successful and the reason why people know there's so much waste in the federal government, is there's no incentive to produce. in the private sector there is. >> incentives matter folks. the "cashin' in" gang getting ready to roll. >> talk about a double standard. the same union backing l.a.'s $15 minimum wage law now wants union workers to be except from that law. plus isis now offering cash bonuses for its soldiers to get married and have babies. time to attack its cash before it's too late. see you at 12:30. >> we will be watching.

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well another irs sos. cyber crooks cracking into the ajency's website and snatching the most private information for more than 100,000 u.s. taxpayers. well now, with the irs, also collecting our very personal health insurance information. steve forbes says we can't trust them with any of our data right? >> the reason why we can't trust them is there's no accountable. there's no penalty for doing wrong things leak harassing political opponents, hiring agents who haven't paid their taxes and stuff like that. they should have had a super security system in but it was just business as usual. and you know that personal health information is going to be out on the public domain.

>> i think already we're seeing south carolina montana, oregon those states are getting hacked into. our irs federal information, our tax information, is being shared with all sorts of agencies. when those health exchanges are hacked you do not get to hear you've been hacked. there's no law that says the federal has to inform you. >> all this personal stuff -- i mean financial stuff is very personal but now all of our health records and everything could be hacked into as well. i don't want the irs to have any of it. >> you're so right. that's one of the things i thought of. this is a department out there that's going to enforce obamacare. are you kidding me. this should be an alarm to every american out there. >> rich what do you think? >> i think with health care and the tax law have in common is they're ridiculously complex. you know i think they're asking heroic -- heroic results from

ordinary people. so i feel a little sorry for the people at the irs. they've been given an impossible task. >> wow. >> true. >> i tell you, you may be right, but somehow it's very hard to feel sympathetic for these people. >> you can't reform incompetence. let's face it. if you're wildly incompetent, you're not going to go work for government. you don't have market signals disciplining your actions. so why should we be surprised by this. >> do you blame the irs or feel sorry for them? >> i don't know if i feel sorry for them. i feel sorry for all these companies that are getting hacked. it's not just an irs problem. this is just -- this is a business. you look at sony and anthem blue cross and the fbi director said recently two kinds of companies are out there. those who have been hacked by the chinese and those who don't know they've been hacked by the chinese. >> the bottom line is -- >> it's a big problem. >> there's so much complexity in our tax code that gives power to

bureaucrats and gives information to hackers. >> unfortunately, that information we now know sensitive information is used for political purposes. when you have no accountabled no punishment we all pay the price. >> scary situation. coming up more than 1 in 4 workers under 45 say they're not if you're an adult with type 2 diabetes and your a1c is not at goal with certain diabetes pills or daily insulin your doctor may be talking about adding medication to help lower your a1c. ask your doctor if adding once-a-week tanzeum is right for you. once-a-week tanzeum is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes along with diet and exercise. once-a-week tanzeum works by helping your body release its own natural insulin when it's needed. tanzeum is not recommended as the first medicine to treat diabetes or in people with severe stomach or intestinal problems. tanzeum is not insulin. it is not used to treat type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis and has not been studied with mealtime insulin.

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we look forward to seeing you there on monday. well now to the stocks that will be there for your retirement. wouldn't that be nice? a buyback etf? >> power shares buy back. when companies buy back their stock, off than stock does pop. like the mix of stocks. kind of cheap. >> you like it? >> i did, i looked at the portfolio. they have mountains of cash. i love cash. >> you're going international? >> i am. i think international stocks are going to pop. i like van guard's international

etf. >> you like them? >> i do like this. they have great stock pickers. >> that's it for "forbes on fox." keep it right here it the number one business block continues with eric bolling and "cashin' in." big labor accused of big hypocrisy. the same union leaders demanding a $15 minimum wage law now want an exemption for companies with union members. so do as unions say, not as unions do. i'm eric bolling. welcome to "cashin' in." juan williams jessica, welcome, everybody. michelle it's incredible, unions got their $15 minimum wage law in l.a. now they want an exemption for union workers. you're from l.a. any surprises? >> i'm not surprised at all. this is shameless. this is exactly how the unions work. this is why unions are