>> gary jonas? >> forget the staycation. if you have to do real work on vacation you can't do it with an ipod. microsoft service prokoming out, 50% ride in microsoft. >> it's okay. think act this. in just 24 hours, a pe heading at an american-owned company in france three dozen beachgoers gunned down in tunisia. if isis inspired it is this any time to consider giving them cash to do more of it? a lot of families paid ransom so their captured loved ones don't suffer the same fate. rudy giuliani telling me no way in hell we help these butchers' business. >> announcement that you can have kidnapping. you're going to see -- isis looks at this and says great,

we just made ourselves $5 million, $6 million. >> i'm neil cavuto and it makes you think. ransoms are isis' number-two money maker. dagen mcdowell says we could have made it their number one money maker. the rst of our panel join us. adam will be back next week. daighen? >> the whole point of having a firm no negotiation, no ransom policy in this country is to prevent americans being targeted and by announcing this policy openly with a lot of holes in it you're asking for americans to be kidnapped for ransom and to be targeted period. then what? >> now, the government's policy charles, is that you don't do this. we will allow private families if they want they can go ahead and do it. i guess there were laws against this sort of thing. but i don't remember anyone ever being punished. >> no one was ever punished for it. >> what do you think of it? >> i disagree with-in the sense if there's a young american in

syria, afghanistan, someone wants to help out all the refugees in iraq they are going to be targeted. it might be the number-two money maker for isis but it's their number-one pr stunt. beheading people -- i'm not talking about expats or americans working for air products in france. i'm talking about that one particular region where we have no policy where our government has no way, no desire or no will to crush isis if some american kid is over there trying to do what they think is the right thing and they get kidnapped i would like to see the family be able to rescue them because our government won't. >> charlie, all the nuance one of the things this addresses is the way government has treated hostage families and apparently shabbily. they want to communicate with them more don't want them dismissed anymore, they'll argue against ransoms but don't want them treatmented like crap. >> a good thing. >> right, on paper, setting up an administrative staff to do that is another thing.

dupg this has made americans targets? >> i do. it shows you the absurd di of our policy. we know they're beheading people committing atrocities across the world, yet we don't want to take the battle to them. i'm not saying engage in full-out war with isis. >> we should. we should once and for all. >> or we should start doing something to help the iraqis crush them more than just paying it lip service. it's an odd policy yes, we'll pay you ransom but won't help people defeat you. bizarre. >> ben stein? >> i'm trying to imagine my wife, who's my whole life is captured god forbid by isis i would want to do ef possible thing to get her out of there. i would use every possible bit of leverage including the little money i have left to get her out of there. the throat of my wife having her throat cut or head cut off because of some policy is very

upsetting. it's great to have a policy. i think the people involved who have knives at their throats are frankly more close to that policy. it's a distant money maker. their main money maker is oil. >> you're right. but for when they get european hostages or latin-american hostage, it is a big money maker. the government's directly involved. >> let's not let any americans go there. >> there is that. julie, what do you think? >> i agree with dagen but if this were my kid i would do everything i could, including mortgaging every ounce of what i owned to get them out of there. i think it's hard to say to these family hands off, you can't do anything to save your kid. all of us would do whatever we could to save our kid and that's the difficulty here. charlie, how exactry are you going to get the iraqi army to fight harder when these guys leave the battlefield and isis has our weapons because they're not doing anything to defeat them? >> we should be helping the

iraqi -- >> how? >> i don't know. send advisers. >> we have. we are. >> i don't know. we don't have enough over there. >> never works. >> what's that? >> charlie, advisers never work. >> yeah. look at vietnam. >> didn't work in vietnam, won't work here. >> this is different than vietnam. this is not a jungle. this is the middle of the desert. >> it never works anyway. >> way off topic but i want to thank you all. after this taking a look at another development concerning the supreme court. see these guys celebrating the health care ruling? be careful what you wish for. just ask these guys in greece. today on "forbes on fox," losing track of terror suspects that just happened overseas. ahead of the july 4th holiday, we need to beef up our surveillance program right here. and forget the supreme court decision. one of america's largest health

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h now involves 1,100 law enforcement officers. i'm uma pemmaraju. back to more of "cavuto on business." to a big fat greek mess. don't think that can happen here? some say it can and has and will get worse because the debt that comes with it is already getting worse. >> try $847 billion between now and 2025. this is from the cbo. okay. >> this is nuts.

here's the thing. premiums have gone through the roof. people need to understand this whole thing is on a sliding scale so people say it doesn't matter because the government's paying my premiums. you don't understand. your neighbor is paying your premiums. people who work and had jobs are paying your premiums. people who might have had a full-time job now working part-time are paying your premium premiums. >> maybe you're just cheep and you don't care. >> this is going to cost more -- i am cheap, but -- >> he is the last person who's cheap, i'll tell you that. >> cost more than medicate in the next ten years. >> one surprise after another. oil subsidies and incentives had gone away, that would have been a big adjustment. >> it would have been crazy. >> everyone dutz pay for that and it was built into this. what now? >> i think what's scary is we have a supreme court, you know, they ratified obamacare, we have a supreme court that will ratify any big government boon dog until the world, no matter how

obtrusive it is how weirdly stated in law, no matter how controversial. this supreme court is mandating our way into bankruptcy. >> interesting. dagen. >> i go back to this all the time the fact we never bothered to fix the giant holes that are in medicare and social security before we moved on to try and provide -- >> layer after layer. >> 2030 is when the medicare trust fund is depleted. 2033 is when the social security trust fund is depleted. who's going too pay for all of that? i'm paying for mom and dad's health insurance and medicare while they're if retirement now. they dispute that but i am. >> are you an ingrate? >> we're all paying for it. >> they sacrificed everything for you. >> the girls school you went to. >> now you're a selfish prima donna. >> my taxes are paying for -- >> they brought you into this world and they can take you out. >> who paid for your prom dress? >> i didn't go. >> julie, what do you think of this? >> the saddest thing is she didn't go to her prom.

that's horrible dagen. you are ungrateful horrible. look i think this is -- i have a very different attitude about this. i take the love thy neighbor thing a little more seriously, i think. ? . >> with everybody else's money. sunshine collude mig own money. it is much cheaper in the long term to have a healthy society than for people to go to the emergency room for basic care. >> right now, 35 million people nonelderly people. in 2025 there will be 27 million. this doesn't help anybody. it's a scam. >> it doesn't? >> it gives more power to the federal government and jacks up all of our health care costs and we'll have diminished health care. >> there won't be any doctors left. >> go ahead. >> talk to the 15 million people that got health care thanks to this law. >> julie, we won't have any doctors in a few years because of this law.

>> our predictions of death spiral our predictions of no doctor so, far so good. >> ben stein here our seasoned sage. what do you make of this? >> well we're already bankrupt. we take all of our liability, all the unfunded liabilities, they already make us bankrupt. so that's not going to be a problem. we're paying for it all with printing press phony fiat currency. anyway we seemed to be able to get away with that for a long time. i'm with julie. our very lavishly well made-up democratic strategist today. we are a country with a heart and i don't think we can let people go without health care. and mr. nixon had that idea and he was right. >> ben just said we're paying for it with a printing press. at some point somebody realizes that out there. the chinese, the japanese and they stop buying our printing press. >> what? >> charlie, you're young.

>> thank you. >> it's a problem for your generation not for mine. >> that's a good point. >> this does put us on a path of greece and we can have fun with it but you can't dispute where we're heading. we layer on more and more of these benefits these promises that we simply cannot pay for. >> so the republicans talk about dismantling the law, the house, for example, voted to repeal the medical devices tax. >> never going to happen. >> that's a revenue raiser. you have to pay for it somehow. >> it's here to stay. >> think about what ben said about the off balance sheet nature of the u.s. that's all the stuff if you put it all together we are in trouble. that's what happened with greece. greece got into the european union because goldman sachs and other big wall street firms finagled a derivative to hide their off-balance sheet stuff and now it's coming -- >> it took them 30 years to get to that point. >> why are you blaming their problem on goldman sachs?

>> you suck um to wall street constantly. >> you do. you're blaming them when it was the greeks with the seven-hour workweek. >> you don't blame the drug dealer you blame the drug user. >> i blame you. >> you think drug dealers are bad. wall street is the drug dealer. greece is the heroin addict. capisce? >> if you were arguing in favor of world war ii being a good thing, i would take the opposite view just for the sake of principle. ben stein, real quickly, i know what you're saying we're a big country, we help our people and all this there is the argument i've heard julie raise if not here in the past, this will pay for itself down the road. such was said about social security and medicare et cetera. that we'd never really appreciate the magnitude of the bills we're piling up, that the good intentions are always there, the means to pay for them are not. and that to get back to the greek analogy is what's alive and well. we are not that far from greece right now. what do you say?

>> well samuel johnson, the smartest essayist in the english language told the loss of the american colonies would be the ruin of a nation, said there is a lot of ruin in a nation and lit take a long time for this nation to be ruined by the likes of obamacare. >> so we're still brewing. it's just not going to happen next week. >> not in our lifetimes. maybe in dagen's lifetime. >> maybe in dagen's. >> thanks ben. >> how do you feel about that? >> you're a taker and i'm a giver. that's what it is. >> i don't know about that because you're bitching about your poor parents. >> i pay a fair amount in tax, dagen. >> you didn't pay for your prom dress. >> i didn't have a prom dress. i didn't go to the prom. can we not leonie brinkemabring it up again? >> you didn't go to your prom? >> i got stood up. >> i'd take you to the prom. >> i got turned down 12 times before my mother finally said yes. >> you guys are all losers. i went to two proms. i'm embarrassed to know all of

you. >> you went to two proms and you hailed from the party of clinton. i'll leave it at that. >> i wish i'd gone with him but i didn't. >> when we come back you don't think this will ever happen but the epa said you are not from this planet. maybe

>> when i put a report out on

acting on climate like we did yesterday that shows how dramatically our world will change if we don't act, i am doing that not to push back on climate deniers. you can have fun doing that if you want but i've batted my head against the wall too many times, and if the science hasn't already changed their mind it never will. in any democracy, it's not them that carries the day. it is normal human beings. .that haven't put their stake in to politics above science. it's normal human beings that want us to do the right thing. >> which would make me a freaking lunatic. are you kidding me? so you don't go along with the climate change thing. you're not normal. i don't have to go back more than a few decades to read cover stories in "time," "news week" and "business week." the great global to come and polar bears that will be ruling the earth because it's going to be frozen tundra everywhere. that was then. it was wrong then. it was accepted by 90% plus of

the scientific community. i'm not saying if they were right then or right or wrong now. to not call those -- not normal? pretty normal. ben stein, what do you think of this? >> i think it's extremely serious for this woman who, by the way, doesn't look at all normal to me describing people who disagree with her as not normal, and, i guess, therefore, mentally unbalanced. the science of this is not at all clear. they're extremely distinguished climateologists. it's not really happening and then whatever is happening. >> yeah it might work for the

news networks. >> when this government's policies and the democrats policies end up sending all of our fuel costs through the roof chuck schumer, by the way, floating the idea of a carbon tax just this past week. guess what, the whole country is going to get freaky and weird and dog gone angry. >> this reminds me of that scene in good fellows where he is screaming at henry hill. you're not normal. henry, you're not a normal human being. >> thank you for that. >> that woman was a freak. that's all i'm going to say. >> we don't want to go to that. we don't respond by getting to that level. >> joe pesche can play her in the movie version. >> taking over the epa. >> you're not normal. >> it was 1,000 years when all the smartest people on the planet said that the universe revolved around earth. you know since the scientists -- >> it doesn't? >> you know as the science is

settled, and it's amazing. it's ridiculous and like you said the normal part is her. the way she is speaking is really desperation more than anything else. >> you know i'm going to take a side how people feel on climate change and other people strongly feel it's real, it's man made whatever. i'm not going to start arguing it. i'm going to argue over the way you sell your strategy. if anything you are a very very pragmatic type of -- >> she's normal? >> keep going. i'm normalish. >> normalish. >> i'm normalish. >> i didn't want to call you normal, but -- >> normalish. >> when you heard that cause, when someone speaks like that -- >> i agree with her, by the way, about the fact that i'm a flattether the science is pretty much settled, but i wouldn't insult people who disagree with me by saying they're not normal. >> before you were born and these news stories are everywhere about frozen earth, what would you have said then? >> i don't know because that was

before i was born. i'm not as old as you. >> the science isn't settled. for them to say it's settled isn't normal. >> about 99% of the world's climate scientists figured it out. >> 99%. >> where did you pull that number out of? 99%? >> i'm using what that's not true? >> where did you pull that number out of? >> oh. >> they're distinguished climateologists who dispute that. >> i wouldn't call it whacky what you just said but whackish. >> you're not normal. you're not normal. >> a lot of you are not sharing what you are making with your spouse. you don't tell them how much you earn, and you don't know much more about your significant other. what is going on? >> they don't tell us how much they spend.

stunts so good you will want to share them with your spouse. >> you got to have exposure to health care insurance. cigna is a big name. should do well for years to come. >> had h a big week. it's a fine company. super good company. i remember its predecessor was always a good company. i will always say if you can get warren buffett to be your partner, do it.

brookshire. >> can you imagine growing up with ben? >> nothing out of ben. all right. terror attacks on three continents and at least one of the terror suspects was once being tracked in france but they stopped tracking him. that's where some here say we should let the nsa go back to tracking and gathering data on bad guys here to help stop them from doing something terrible here. are they right? hi everybody. welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus with steve forbes michael, elizabeth mcdonald, sabrina shafer john tamney and bruce jackson. steve, start it up again. the nsa surveillance. >> absolutely david. what they have now is unworkable. the telecom companies don't know what they're supposed to be doing with this data. just as it makes it harder to do basic data