we had one rally attempt that's failed, but this market's going to continue to be all over the place. keep it right here. on that note, we'll give it to you, neil cavuto. neil: charles payne, thank you very much. for those just tuning in, we have a problem on the floor of the new york stock exchange. it is very difficult to get at least computerized trades through. that has effectively topped all major -- stopped all major trading on the floor. the nasdaq, for example, was quick to remind folks that trading is being carried on in new york stock exchange-related issues, but if this is seeming very flash crashy to you like the incident a couple years back, you're not alone. and it occurs on a day we had a massive selloff going on following china's big hit, about a 6% hit. that market down close to 30 plus percent from its highs reached three weeks ago. also that market had some technical issues just trying to implement government restrictions on trading, a third of all shares there were

suspended for trading. and we had a number of united airlines flights unable to move because of a computer glitch. are any and either of these related? that is hard to say. right now confusion at the bastion of american capitalism, and few people are figuring out what's going on, but i know of no one better than our oney coal petallides. what the heck is happening, nicole? >> thank you, neil. the latest is you have all stocks here on the floor of the new york stock exchange are suspended. arca is trading, but here's the thing, they have to cancel all the orders. they are canceling everything. market on close orders, they are now doing these at 120 orders at a time? this is what i'm hearing from the group, not getting an official statement. the official statement is that the new york stock exchange is working on this, they're trying to work through this on these technical issues. but the big picture here is,

yes, you can trade your stocks elsewhere. people at home are going to be able to trade their stocks. but right here, the financial capital of the world, you have over 3,000 stocks suspended. and the traders that were all standing here just got the cue to give all the calls and cancel everything that occurred here going forward, particularly for this market on close orders. neil: nicole, to be clear on why they should do something like that, the argument was made at the time of the flash crash when we suddenly dropped a thousand points in minutes that some people were disadvantaged, that it was not fair, that a lot of open orders were not all treated equally and that individual investors were gouged. they're simply saying any open orders for buying or selling a stock are canceled outright. do we know how long that would be in effect and how much we're talking about here? >> there is no indication as to how long it will take them to cancel all these orders, neil. when you're talking about upwards of 700,000 orders,

you're talking about every single open order. and to your point, they don't want to have anybody be at a disadvantage. and in the meantime, now, this is a real black eye for the new york stock exchange which always does so well with ipos and catching any sort of odd type of trading or volatility. but this is something that nobody could have anticipated. and right at the opening bell we had some issues as well. so it's the second time today that we're seeing that. but this is up precedented. i never remember standing here and saying all the stocks were suspended in all my years. neil: it is weird. dick grasso on the phone with us, former chairman of the new york stock exchange. dick can, help us with what's going on here. what's going on here? >> well, neil, it looks like there is some sort of a glitch that is causing, you know, and i think appropriately so, this nyse-wide trading halt. the cancellation of all open orders is, i think, a very

important public protection, neil, because if the market given where the market is and the volatility that we have seen overnight in asia, if suddenly you get a spike in volatility and those public orders get triggered, i think that's a terrible thing to have happen to public investors. neil: all right, now, that did not occur during the flash crash and a lot of those orders were quickly resumed, a lot of individual investors were screwed in that process, so maybe this is to avoid that. dick, i'm asking if the nasdaq is seizing on this to say, oh, no, nyse-related orders are clearing fine through here, so is this a black eye on your old p haunt here? we should stress trading is still going on -- >> well, i think -- neil: there's something going on here. >> you put your finger on something very important, neil, okay? something the sec needs to address. when a primary market is down, should other perimeter

markets -- and i would include nasdaq as a perimeter market in nyse-listed securities -- should they continue to trade? because the public is basically shut out of that opportunity, and that's wrong. okay? and i'm not talking about trading in nasdaq stocks, i'm talking about trading in big board stocks on the nasdaq can at a time when the primary market, the big board, is down. neil: all right. if you could hang on, dick, i've goth -- i've a got charlie gasparino with a question. >> is archipelago open right now? >> that's a good question, charlie, and the nyse hasn't indicated that yet. >> they told nicole that archipelago is open, so unless i'm missing something -- and you're the expert here -- it seems like a very small portion of the new york stock exchange is closed while most of the trades are done through archipelago which is their

electronic -- neil: dick is saying they should all stop. >> the new york stock exchange is not down, it's just a small -- neil: understood. dick, you're saying that they should all stop in this event, right? >> i think the important thing here is what nyse has said publicly is that they have halted all trading. >> they told us archipelago is still trading. maybe they're wrong -- >> you know what? i think we should all wait to hear what nyse itself has to say, but i am absolutely supportive of the fact that the public should not be disadvantaged here on. neil: dick, are you saying right now they are? because there is confusion right now. >> you see, the problem, charlie and neil, the problem is you don't know what validity of pricing you're getting in those other markets if the primary market is down. >> but, dick, suppose archipelago is still working. how could you say the primary market is -- it's not really

down. >> you know, unless, unless, charlie, all of the public order flow, okay, that would normally be price discovered in new york -- >> right. >> -- is shipped to that market, then it's still a perimeter market. >> well, it's, it is -- well, most of it is, isn't it? don't most of the new york stock exchange-traded stocks that trade at the new york stock exchange trade through their electronic trading venue and the markets aren't made by the specialists? >> yeah, but remember something, charlie, when you start quoting the statistics about market penetration, and i just saw neil had a board up that 10% of the trading occurs there -- >> yep. >> all right? >> you're really focused on the top 500 securities. >> right. >> okay? >> what most people trade though. >> the bottom call it 2,000 securities, primarily only trade on new york. >> yeah. but where do they trade on new york? through a specialist or -- >> well, charlie, it doesn't matter as long as there's

centrality of price validity. >> but -- i know that but, dick, here's the difference: the new york stock exchange has at least given us right now telling us that archipelago, which is their electronic trading thing which gets, does most of the trading from what i understand, is working. if that's working, this is just a small piece of -- neil: well, i want to be careful about that. we are getting more data numbers in, gentlemen. i do want to stay out of the weeds if i can, brilliant as all of you are. about eight minutes after the hour, it's lunchtime in new york for the better part of about 20 minutes now trading, predominant trading in the new york stock exchange has been halted, and that has adaptically flashed by by about 80%, we are told, much of that, of course, computer driven. and we are told that these ancillary and outside systems that aren't so ancillary are affected by this as well and it sort of has a carryover effect here. we are hearing that nasdaq is continuing to operate and reminding traders that it is

still business as usual for them. to dick grasso's point, that is really not the kind of thing you want to do if you're having exchanges competing or sort of taking advantage of one other over the other in the middle of something like this. suffice it to say, it's added to a great deal of confusion in the middle of this on a day we had the chinese market getting really shellacked, it was down about 6%. they had their own computer issues today. about a third of issues were not able to be traded, and that third is a rough figure about the value lost in the chinese stock market since june. lauren simonetti, i'm looking at all of that, and we'll get the details on what's going on, but it adds to confusion on the part of investors who say i get an icky feeling. >> if you're a regular person watching the show, seeing what's happening overseas in china, hitting us here at home, issues, glitches with our major stock exchange, even if you get into the weeds and say, ah, things are still trading, this makes you nervous.

yesterday we had the second heaviest volume day of the entire year. volatility way up. we were down more than 200, ended up almost 100 points. these are huge swings that we're not used to seeing. and we're seeing something very similar today minus the volume, but certainly the volatility. if i'm sitting at home, i don't want to touch the stock market. neil: dick grasso, the flash crash did play on people's fears because that happened so quickly. this was a professionals' game, i shouldn't be involved. even to your point and to charlie's point that it might, when all is said and done, may not be nearly as widespread as we feared or thought, but an average investor is going to say, gee, dick grasso, i know you have confidence in this system, but i sure don't. what to you tell them? >> this is really an issue not for the markets to decide, but for the regulators to decide. and if i were one of those regulators, i'd be on the phone right now saying, listen, if the primary market is down, all markets that trade those primary

market securities should be down for the benefit of investors. neil: all right, connell mcshane, i do want to say because there is -- you would talk about a confluence of developments, earlier today there were technical issues affecting united airlines that effectively grounded its entire fleet for upwards of an hour. it was a computer glitch, but it occurs on the same day there were program trading problems in china. not that any of them are related, but people are going to look at all of that, connell, and say, whoa, whoa -- >> yeah, they probably will a little bit. the china thing we should separate because most of what was happening there is companies bringing that upon themselves with problems they were having and choosing to not let their stocks trade anymore, and that's a long way from here. neil: and they didn't know the government orders. >> you're right about the united airlines, i think that's why time matters in this. i know charlie's saying the same thing, i'm looking at my phone, and you're waiting for that tweet or text or somebody to say

they've solved this, and i think we need to hear more from the new york stock exchange than we've heard so far. >> we don't know -- i'm sorry. >> to your earlier point, is archipelago working, is this just the floor trades? we haven't heard enough yet from them. and in -- neil: we should explain, guys, you're all -- >> i think, neil, it's important to remember a fast price is not necessarily a fair price. neil: so explain this, dick. i'm sorry, you always have to drag it out for my stupidity here. when we are seeing trading continue, we're seeing the dow move as it moves up and down a little bit, what is doing that, who is doing that? the trading that is halted is what, and what percentage of overall activity do you think we're talking about? >> you raise a very important issue. i think you have got to go to the folks who run that index and ask them where are they bench marking the index from since the primary market is down? neil: well, we've seen movement in the dow, down about 272 right now.

it hasn't been going gangbusters nuts, but over 200. what is accounting for that? >> you have to remember, neil, there are 30 names in that index. neil: right. >> okay? the -- neil: similar movement, by the way -- [inaudible] go ahead. >> the next time one of those 30 stocks comes across the tape, all right, that last price is added to the 29 previous prices of those other securities to calculate the index. you don't know when those securities last traded, okay? neil: so you might not get -- i understand. so you might not be getting a real sense of the -- >> dick, we don't know everything about what this, this is right now. >> right. >> we need a little more disclosure from the new york stock exchange, and, listen -- neil: what don't -- if they don't know? >> that's a whole other story. but they told nicole, archipelago is up. if that is the case, then guess

what? the small investor really, i don't think, has to worry. neil: but a small investor is going to look at coverage like this, hear that our traditional systems are down -- >> that no one uses anymore. neil: well, maybe. >> wait a minute, wait a minute -- neil: we are going to see a grip in trading volume. we've already seen that. as the day ensues, however minimal this might be, it ground all other activity close to a halt for a while. this is a fraction of the normal trading we're seeing. what does that say? >> i don't think so. >> have we confirmed, neil, that archipelago is, indeed -- neil: we've only gotten a confirmation, and this is a tertiary source, i should stress, that -- >> about archipelago. neil: archipelago is not down. >> has the nyse confirmed that? neil: no. i just got a confirmation from reuters that archipelago -- >> they confirmed that to nicole last hour. neil: understood. >> dick, put this in the context

of archipelago not being down. >> i'm sorry, charlie, i didn't want hear you. >> put this whole thing in the context of archipelago not being down. >> well, i think you have to look at what flows through archipelago, you know, outside of call it the dow 30 or the s&p 500, okay? and those bottom 2,000 securities, my guess is that penetration is relatively small, okay? >> right. >> no one knows that for certain other than new york, and they should be talking to the public investor now about protecting them. neil: well, they're not, they're not. the best they're doing is just trying to clarify what's happening here. a new york stock exchange spokesperson telling us we're currently experiencing a technical issue here that we're working to resolve as quickly as possible. we will be providing further updates as soon as we can and are doing our utmost to produce a swift resolution and insure a timely and orderly market reopen. they also have saying they have temporarily suspended trading in

all symbols. so, dick grasso, when you hear something hike that and they're taking proactive measures to try to stay ahead of this and keep the calm, could they complicate this and make it worse? >> no, i don't think anytime you do something that protects the least sophisticated user of market, your retail investors, neil, i think you've done the right thing. neil: yeah. but they're the most sophisticated investors, and they don't know what the hell's going on. >> no, no, no. the least sophisticated user of the market, neil, your 1 in 200-share purchaser who might have open orders or who are primarily being executed on the new york stock exchange, when you to the right thing for -- you do the right thing for that user of the market, you've done the right thing for the markets. neil: if i'm an average, unsophisticated investor and the people who know what they're doing don't know what's going on, that is a tad disconcerting.

nicole, what's the latest? >> i haven't heard anything about these stocks being reopened yet. this is a computer issue, all the stocks here at the new york stock exchange are still suspended. and if is and when they were to open, and i talked to some of the guys here, i said how are they absolutely going to do that? most likely like they do at 9:30 a.m. when they take in all the orders that went -- neil: but where, nicole? when you say "suspended," traditional vehicles on the nyse, but not on some of these other systems? >> exactly. they're trading on nasdaq, they're trading in other forms. neil: and that was your point. >> that's the whole point, i get it. but in the meantime, they have to look at that and get the number right when they do this. and they're also in the midst of canceling 700,000 orders, i'm hearing, 120 at a time. i mean, that will take -- >> millions of orders get placed. >> i will say this and, you know, i love dick grasso.

dick, i think, still has found memories of the specialist system. but when he talks about the 2,000 stocks that are in the big names, those stocks generally are not what the average investor cares about. the average investor cares about apple and all the big names in the mutual funds, and those stocks are still being traded elsewhere. and what i'm saying here -- neil: but does it have a domino effect? >> no. this is a good thing. >> you'll think this is interesting because we just looked at the new york stock exchange composite value, so that's trading on the floor if it was happening and electronic platforms, it's in line with the one month average. >> see, that's what i'm saying. >> right. no, i know. >> take a look at -- wait a minute, wait a minute before you jump to too strong a conclusion here, charlie. take a look at some of the last sales we've just seen across the tape in big cap stocks. 1100 shares of a major cap stock

down 79 cents? come on. that's not legitimate price discovery. >> which stock -- neil: guys, please, i -- >> just watch the tape. neil: please, i beg you to stop. we're getting lost in weeds here. i do want to indicate woa we're etinging indications from an official stressing at this time we cannot say there's any malicious activity going on or that earlier united airlines computer problem. so there's no way of knowing, but it's pretty clear at least at the nyse, and obviously they're trying to get to the bottom of this fast, but nicole petallides, they haven't. and i think the longer that kind of thing goes on, the more people begin to get worried, why don't you know what's going on? what are they telling you? >> no doubt. and as i talk to some of the traders on the floor, i'm about to introduce keith bliss, and we'll have him the question as well. but i just walked the floor, and we don't want to speculate, and we don't want to be, you know, sensationalizing what's going on. but at the same time, people are

talking about that we saw united airlines have an issue. we saw the nyse have an issue at the hope, and now you have over 3,000 stocks suspended. keith, or what your thoughts? >> people on wall street love a conspiracy theory, but we're trying to stay away from that right now. listen, technical mall functions happen inside of machines, we don't really know. it would be wrong to speculate. at this point in time. but given can all that's happened over the last six months and today, your mind does wander to that. >> how about investor confidence? we have so many people who are watching that are not necessarily business-savvy folks that are working at goldman sachs. what do you tell those people? they're still executing their trades, right? >> they are. most of the stocks that are primarily listed in the new york stock exchange do trade on err exchanges through universal trading privilege, so they will still be able to access their money, get to liquidity, they just won't be able to get to as much liquidity, so they'll still be able to trade.

i think you still remain confident in our markets. i think we just had a technical malfunction, it happens, we'll get it straightened out, the people at nyse are working furiously to get us back up and running, and we'll go from there. the markets are so complex that sometimes things like this do happen. >> and how did you feel when this happened? >> we're in the midst of handling customer orders, and our clients are big banks, brokerages, mutual funds, hedge funds, and all of a sudden the world just came to a stop. it's like musical chairs, came to a standstill -- >> and you don't have a chair. >> that's correct. it's pretty unsettling. you never want to see that happen where you have the best capitalist market system in the world, we believe, and it does give you pause for reflection. again, i think we'll get back up and running and everybody should feel safe and secure here. >> they do work to keep the orders safe and your money safe and it's just a technical issue they have to work through. neil: yeah, but i tell you, they're trying to make everyone

feel great, maybe that's the case, but i don't know. it is a little weird to be this now into about, what, 45 minutes into this. still not -- real quickly, i do want to say we are hearing from a well-placed u.s. security official quoting here nothing indicates anything malicious at this time. the situation is developing. this is an official speaking about this development here, that the right folks are on it and working to determine its cause. we are also getting tweets now to the nyse, maybe that's the problem that they're tweeting out to us, that we're doing our utmost to produce a swift resolution, and no doubt they are. you can see from the floor, the exchange here, things are very, very quiet. again to mention charlie's point, he brought up with dick grasso, the former head of the new york stock exchange, that crowd on the floor is nothing like it was back in dick grasso's day or even a few years ago. a lot fewer human beings on that floor. so what are we really looking at, dick? if the argument is that computers and other sophisticated trading mechanisms

are kind of running the show right now while these guys try to figure out what's going on, is that such a damning indictment, or is there something bigger we should be looking at? >> well, neil, you know, technology can't be reversed, all right? but public investors can be protected, to my point a moment ago. i just saw 900 shares of general motors trade down $1.43. i hope the public is not going to those markets, because they're getting the wrong prices. neil: that was gasparino, he sold a large block. [laughter] >> what dick is essentially saying is it gets to the point of the gentleman nicole was interviewing. liquidity,ly question did is more people trading. if there was somebody in the middle of that, a specialist, it wouldn't have traded down whatever he said, 1.73. if that is the worst problem that we have here, you know, because that trade will be reversed at some point. neil: but is anything you're seeing being exaggerated because of this?

>> maybe on the edges. they're just not that big a deal anymore. neil: but someone this that void, charlie, from your experience, take advantage of this vacuum and try to -- >> traders take advantage of all sorts of little things. but what has been the practical impact of what went on here that's negative for the small investor and the worst, the worst example we got is maybe general motors trading down a little further, maybe 75 cents further than it should. neil: and there's no way we can know that, folks. it's only the nyse at this time. not nasdaq. so that is interesting in and of itself. now, the flash crash eventually affected everybody -- >> well, i'd argue that gm is trading down so much on the china story today -- neil: that might be a legitimate reason. >> china auto sales down in june for the first time in two years -- neil: by the way, 29 of the 30 dow stocks down. >> i've been looking at the dow jones industrial avenue, best

down between 187-217 the entire time i'm sitting here. what does that say? neil: you weren't listening to gasparino. >> no, not at all. [laughter] >> this is the point i think we should make -- >> how about 850 shares of jpmorgan down $1.17? what kind of pricing is that? >> you're saying that a specialist would have stopped it at $1. [laughter] >> charlie, i mean -- >> that's what you're saying. >> at a dollar, okay, 850 shares of jpmorgan, the biggest bank in america? come on. >> so that should never trade down a dollar. >> absolutely not. neil: dick, are you aware we had a big selloff going on? >> no, no, no, believe me. of neil, i am painfully aware there is a big selloff here. neil: okay. connell -- [laughter] i think he just said, neil, i am never coming on your show again. my only point is none of these trades would amaze me when we go -- >> no, but he knows the markets. neil: i understand.

and he's obviously going to defend that system. we're down 200 points, and we were down well south of that, should those kind of trades surprise you? >> it's interesting to have mr. grasso's perspective on all of this, because if we didn't have it, i think i would have been looking at the that statistics and say it's the new york stock exchange that's stepping into the void that was created when the new york stock exchange was halted. in other words, floor trading stopped, and the electronic system that the stock exchange -- neil: fireman sets the fire and then douse cans it. >> all systems are working. the backup's working, the electronic system is picking opportunity slack, that's what it seems like to me, but i might be missing something. >> it may be picking up the slack,com, okay, it -- connell, it may be picking up the slack, but the lille quiddity creates -- illiquidity. >> dick is basically saying there's one less player in the market that would prevent trades from trading down that viciously. >> that's why these guys with

their arms folded down there, it's taking a while. neil: i know they really can't do much if their main systems are down, but what do they do? what are they waiting for? >> well, they're waiting for the systems to come back up, and you will have a price discovery of every one of those listed securities as if it were 9:30 in the morning and a brand new opening. neil: can't they even hook busy or get on a keyboard? [laughter] >> listen, their all watching you and charlie at this moment. neil: that's correct. >> and they're really pissed off because they're not at harry's at the hanover right now. [laughter] neil: once again, we don't know what we're talking about, but a lot of people are going to look at this much as they did the flash crash, prior eruptions and disruptions, and they're going to say, you know, a young individual investor, someone let's say connell's age, is going to say, you know what? i don't know, i get a funk key feeling about this market. and how do you disavow them of

that perception? >> you step up to the plate, you communicate, and you protect public interest by suspending listed securities across all markets -- neil: they're not doing that. >> why do that? >> that's not the nyse -- the nyse can't do that, neil. the sec's got to do something like that. >> but we're trading. the worst thing you could say is that 900 shares of jpmorgan traded down 75 cents -- >> charlie, look at all of your big cap stocks and the volatility. >> i agree, there's more volatility. neil: this is not a big deal to you. >> no! neil: what the hell are you doing here? >> if you're in a mutual fund or a long-term holder, it's zero. neil: well, we learned after the crash it was zero, right? the 1,000-point hit was fast and chalky -- >> that was scary. neil: for other reasons as well. but again, when you raise the prospect of cyber-related

issues, lauren, that stuff that scares folks -- >> a lot of them today. isn't it funny that what's happening at the new york stock exchange is trading -- the is same time the traders are done at the chicago merc? >> ooh. wipes out, i don't know, how many points was it, i can't remember, the nasdaq crash that occurred, was it last year, where essentially you couldn't get any pricing and nasdaq stocks halted on all -- you couldn't trade it anywhere. that was really bad. this is a market working. the backup systems are working. >> i'd agree with that. neil: you sound like a capitalist tool -- >> charlie, charlie, there is a difference -- [inaudible conversations] neil: presently gouging you. [inaudible conversations] go ahead, dick, i'm sorry. >> i was saying to charlie's point, there's a difference between free markets and free-for-all markets.

and when you have instances like this, it's free-for-all. neil: dick, i'm just hearing the nyse has indicated this is not a cyber breach. any solace you gain from that? >> it's a technical issue, systemic -- neil: you sound like my cable company, a technical issue. [laughter] all i know is i'm not getting "house of cards," and this is a house of cards, a technical issue. [laughter] >> i think you should send charlie to the floor. [laughter] >> i think they'll rip me apart. >> i was about to say, after his comments over the last hour -- [laughter] >> need a bodyguard. >> they'll try to kill me. [laughter] >> yeah. i would fear you going down to the floor, charlie. neil: a couple more dumb questions from me. i want to trade or buy at&t or ibm or microsoft, i can still do so. what and how am i trading that if i do so and want to see either online or whatever my

trade confirmed? what's happening beneath the surface? >> well, assuming your broker has the capacity to route your order, put microsoft aside because microsoft doesn't trade on new york, o.k.? but let's say texas ibm or -- let's say it's ibm or general motors, your broker has the about to reach to those markets that are still open, and the only disadvantage you will have, neil, as a buyer you pay a price that's unrealistic when new york reopens. neil: would i notice snit fidelity or schwab or whatever and i get a confirmation of my trade, an execution order -- which i would -- it would obviously be a little bit delayed but, charlie, you're saying not a lot delayed. we're getting reported of delayed trades. then again, you're a capitalist tool, and you'll never -- >> of course i am. [laughter] neil: you're a disgusting human being. [laughter] not you. >> why are you looking at many he? neil: i don't know. >> how do we know where --

unless you look at course your statements all the time -- >> have to look at the confirm, absolutely. neil: i'm getting caught in my own weeds, but the confirmation i'll get from my broker, yes, neil, you traded a thousand shares of at&t or apple, whatever, am i really going to go through that to see where and how it created and how many hands or computers it went through? >> is on any day? >> no. how does this all play out? the market's been doing the same thing for the last 32 minutes and then some. how does it play out? if we don't know the issue of this -- >> this is not a problem p i'm telling you. neil: publicly-traded entity. >> i love dick grasso, my good friend -- neil: it is down less than 2%. dick grasso, thank you very much. you took the time to help us, and here we just abused you of the notion that that dinosaur you used to work at is coughing up blood. >> send gasparino to the trading floor, would ya?

[laughter] thank you, neil. always great to be with you. neil: now rudy giuliani, who's been through more than a few crises of his own, has kept his cool and calm through them all, including a few wall street snafus. now, we had after 9/11, you know, trading deliberately halted and stopped for -- >> about four days. neil: four days, right? and that was very different, and that was a deliberate move on the part to just -- >> could have been put back up on thursday. interesting -- neil: and you were not thinking we were rushing it. >> i was not in favor of rushing it, neither was dick. the president wanted it up on thursday, and when i spoke to dick and we went over it, it probably would have worked, but it might not have. and if it didn't, it would have created a disaster. neil: even though the first day of trading was a bludgeoning. but it worked, orders got through. >> the concern was halfway through the day it would go can out. there was no power to lower manhattan, so all the power being generated for the stock

exchange was coming from an outside generator. neil: they're obviously taking, rudy, their time. just follow through here. what i want to understand here is they're not resuming trading right now. first of all, because they really don't know what's going on, which is fair. but i think they'll also delay going back online until they're sure those systems, much like as they did with you back on 9/11, are able to handle the traffic that's going to follow. nothing like then, but again, they have to be ready to trade and have systems up and able to trade when things resume, right? >> yeah. biggest problem here is they're not explaining it. >> right. >> exactly. >> when you're in the middle of a crisis, i'm just listening to your discussion coming in, coming over here, you know, ten different speculations, ten different ideas. this statement is a rather useless statement. >> right. >> it means nothing. it's gobbledygook. crisis management 101, you give out specific information -- neil: but what if you don't know? >> then say you don't know, and we're trying to find out. neil: oh, that's a concept.

>> but don't -- >> say what it's not. >> they must know something. look, if they don't know something more than this, then the place is really being run very poorly. neil: we're just finding out the president has been briefed on this. we don't know much more than that. it's an ongoing issue at the new york stock exchange. he's been apprised of it. of course, you were in communication with president bush at the time -- >> the crisis management here is atrocious. i mean, from the moment this happened, someone should have explained it happened -- neil: wouldn't it be worse if they came out and said, gee, devil if i know. >> they could begin by are searching for a possibility -- neil: how are they able to rule out signer? >> they did say what it's not, at least cyber breach. neil: how would they know? >> apparently, law enforcement sources say it is not a cyber breach. how accurate that is, i don't know. but the reality is they should know within 32 minutes what the problem is even if they can't cure it. neil: and what does that say -- >> if they can't figure it

out -- >> try to spin it. new york stock exchange is under new management. it's owned now by the ice. i know duncan niedermayer pretty well, dick grasso, if they were running the show, i think the response would have been a lot better. he was used to running a very closed shop. neil: well, now, he's actually closed the shop. >> this is called public trading, and he's learning under fire. he's got a whole new pr staff -- >> and this is terrible. >> archipelago is working. why can't they just say that point-blank? you know, our electronic markets are working, our specialist market is not, and we're going to fix it. >> they need a face to this who can get out there and give as much information as they can give and sew that they are in control of -- show that they are in control of this. and even if they don't know exactly what it is, exactly what you're saying, which is explain what we're doing, working on it. we've got 45 people working on

it, three companies working on it -- >> so this isn't -- >> don't worry, it's all going to be -- neil: and that's even more worrisome. >> and don't worry, it can all be straightened out later, it's not that big a deal the way charlie -- neil: did you ever address, did you ever know stuff and you didn't share snit. >> of course. neil: understood. but do you think they know there's something bigger at play and they aren't sharing snit. >> they have to share what they can say. neil: you have to say something. >> this is a public market. they have to publicly disclose, and people will lose confidence in them if they let -- if it's an hour go by. >> here's where i think they're worried just from a business standpoint. remember, these are all businesses. they're publicly-traded companies competing against nasdaq, batts, another market out there, and dark pools. what they're, i think, worried about -- and this is where jeff sprecher is not, doesn't understand what to do right now, he doesn't have good enough pr people at hand, what they're

worried is about how to spin this so nasdaq doesn't take advantage of it. part of the new york stock exchange when they say trade your stocks through us, you get both humans that do those small stocks that are hard to place, and you've got the electronic thing. if that is part of that equatio- >> charlie, here's what it suggests to me, they never tabletopped this. >> yes. >> or if they did, it was a terrible tabletop. what happens if it goes down, we don't know the reason, who's our face, who's going to explain it, how much are we going to give out, what are with we going to say? at least let's explain who we have working on it -- neil: but, mayor, into that vacuum you get a lot of people who suspect something. dianne feinstein right now, top democrat on the intelligence committee, just telling fox this isn't an oddity. we need to deal with this. this is becoming every couple of weeks, and it has to end. the president, as i said, has been briefed on this, but the white house is referring any and all questions to the new york stock exchange and the

securities and exchange commission. [laughter] not my job. but what grow make of all of this? >> what i make of all of this is they haven't, unfortunately, thought out crisis management. even in the most basic level of crisis management which is you have to have thought out who's your speaker, who's your public face, who is going to explain how much you know, how much you can give away, who's going to explain who's working on it and what kind of work they're doing on it? neil: they've had a couple of incidents like this. >> and also if you can show this is ultimately not really going to hurt people, explain it's not really going to hurt people. if there is some sensitive information in the background then, obviously, you can't share that. there's not to be more than this than they can say. neil: well, it's weird. lauren, one second, because i want to bring anthony scaramucci into this. anthony, you're a seasoned trader, one of best i know. pretty good stock picker. you've earned a fortune doing this. you're looking at this.

what do you make of it? is it a worrisome development now we're going on over an hour here with no questions answered? >> well, i'm not a conspiracy theorist, but i do think that you could have a time lapse virus in their system, neil, got put in there several month ago and has now detonated the system which is why they don't think -- pale neil what does that mean? i'm sorry. >> okay, okay. so you could have gotten a group of hackers into their system three or pour months ago, and the -- four months ago, and the virus basically is in the system, and for whatever decided at 11:3 2k this morning to unleash itself, okay? and that is something that i think they have to be worried about internally. >> and guess what? cybersecurity stocks are surging right now. cyber -- neil: that's a very good point. >> palo alto, coincidence or not, it's happening. >> you know, listen, these are probably coincidences. let's go over them. "wall street journal" web site

down today -- neil: that's right. the site is down, and there might be no connection here, but, mayor, you're hearing anthony during all this. people are going to start getting fidgety. >> the longer it goes, of course the more speculation it's going to be it could be a cybersecurity problem, and attacks are going on all the time. neil: but why should that be a threat? why would they so quickly come out -- >> i'll give you one company that i do cybersecurity work for, they get attempted hacks about 140 a day. 140 a day. >> yep. >> i mean, it's not -- >> i don't know who has the time to do it. >> each time -- >> somebody's trying to get in an average of 140 times a day. so the possibility that somebody got through and there is no place that has absolutely perfect cybersecurity. we haven't invented perfect cybersecurity yet. >> absolutely. >> neil, can i make a prediction? >> our defense systems are the best.

neil: anthony, what were your going to say? >> yeah, no, i want to make a prediction. i actually think what will now happen is people like myself at skybridge and money managers around the street are going to have to have trading contingency plans in the event that there is a cyber attack that takes out these markets. so that will be interesting, and it will come up with the sec over the next three to six months the same way we had the y2k crisis, and we had to have backups. we're going to have that now going forward as a result of this. >> anthony, suppose this is just a screw-up and it's not cybersecurity related, it's just what happened with the nasdaq a couple of weeks ago, and we do know that trading -- listen, i'm looking at the market, the volume has been relatively stable. the market's been down 200 points. it's not like this is destroying the market. there's a lot of headlines to trade off of today; china -- >> greece. >> -- greece, you name it. we could talk about it all day. >> let's hope that that's all it is though, charlie, and i'm hoping that's what it is.

>> i'll bet you din kerr at your restaurant that it is. >> okay, you got it. [laughter] neil: you suspect opt b.. by the way, to charlie's -- >> i love the fact he's promoting the restaurant. he's the only person who 50e9s there every night, by way. >> my wife's a lousy cook, what can i say? [laughter] neil: there's an olive garden right across the street. the cme is saying the markets remain open, u.s. ec equity futures are operating, so they're trying to control this. they're trying to remind you, as charlie did, that trading does still continue, albeit at limited levels. if you had to guesstimate what these levels are now, we told you about the volume now is down 80% from what we had before, it's stabilizing at around these levels, what is your best guess as to where we stand and if this were to continue the rest of day? >> well, again, you know, you'll

chalk it up like the flash crash or the fiasco at nas -- nasdaq on the facebook ipo, and they'll chalk it up as a nonentity. the more homework you do on this stuff, the more you have to worry. there's thousands of attacks that are taking place every day. i was in israel ten days ago getting briefed by team 8200 which is the israeli cybersecurity forces. it is an overwhelming attempt at terror. and i'm telling you that guys like me have to be prepared for this, and we have to have -- and i'm sure the sec's going to mandate this -- we have to have contingency plans in place. let's hope for the best. the it's a technical issue they have. they have no cybersecurity threat. but hopefully, this is a wake-up call for people where they have to recognize that the threat is out there and thinking that the threat isn't there is america

knee eve today. -- naivete. neil: the u.s. department of homeland security has said while there's not any indication of a cybersecurity attack, it has not released an official statement about these computer outages one way or the other. that would just be just trying to cover its hiney. >> they probably don't know. at this point they don't know, and they might not know even after this is fixed for a few days whether this was a cyber attack. neil: then let me ask you this, mayor. in august 2013 when we had the flash crash, that went on for almost three hours before they got to the bottom of it, and think it was almost the end of trading. we have a few hours to go, what if this were to extend the rest of the trading day? >> it would be nothing. no, but it would be -- neil: he's been minimizing this. >> it's a lot more than nothing. first of all, it's going to raise -- neil: he's in the hip pocket of these guys. >> it's going to raise ten

reasons why this might have happened with none of them resolved. it's going to create a tremendous amount of speculation like you're hearing about the possibility of any form of cyber attack. it's going to raise real questions about the competency of the people who are running this market. >> that's true. >> down through the -- neil: so if i'm in london -- >> a couple of people gotta get fired over this. neil: if i'm in london can, berlin -- >> then you've got to be laughing at the new york market. if it's down for even an hour. neil: it is. more than an hour. >> this is a market, it's down for an hour? what kind of market are you running? >> that's what i'm saying. it's an issue not for the average investor, it's an issue for if you're a shareholder in the new york stock exchange for their management. they have a -- now, they were beating up on nasdaq for going down. now nasdaq's going to say, well, look at them? they're no different. that's all it is. >> i think we should say one time, neil, at least with all the speculation the last ten

minutes, the only thing the stock exchange has said is it's not a cyber breach. we could say that -- neil: they quickly jumped on that. >> right. maybe they're not right, maybe they don't have the information, but -- and i agree, i've been critical as well, they need to give us more information. that's one thing that they have said definitively -- neil: i always say officials, you want to calm people down. >> of course. you do, but you don't calm people down by not telling truth. >> right. they would have said, you would hope they would say we don't think it's a cyber -- they said it's not. >> they better be right. >> yes, exactly. neil: how much of what you said -- >> if it is a cyber breach and they made that statement -- neil: well, the lawyer in you, the attorney, the prosecutor in you -- >> if i was their lawyer, i would have said we have no evidence that it's a cyber -- >> right. >> you know, if it's a cyber breach, they're in deep trouble. neil: anthony. >> all i'll say is nobody,

mayor, has read the book on churchill, which is what you read before 9/11, and you took command of the situation and told the truth and got everybody super calm. and so somebody inside the new york stock exchange -- neil: i don't see anyone like rudy giuliani today. [inaudible conversations] >> the new york stock exchange has got to get out there -- >> i used to say all during the time dick grasso was going through these lawsuits, this is the only guy i know who got paid too much money for doing a heroic job. [laughter] i mean, that guy -- >> we're still on the way up, neil. still on the way up. >> i'll tell you something, he, he used to bug me like crazy for two or three years over security and over why -- you mentioned y2k? >> yes. >> and over y2k, he wanted me to pus a police station down -- put a application down there, he wanted it all roped off, we roped it all off. we went through five drills with him in 1999.

>> yeah, he was an amazing chairman. neil: connell can't remember this. >> the y2k problem created the redundancy that the stock exchange had that allowed them to open -- it would have been two days, it turned out to be four. neil: well, we're indicated right now there's no timetable for reopening the markets. that's what we're hearing from nyse. i was trying to count in my head, correct me if i'm wrong, there's still 11 other exchanges to go. >> the nyse is not shut down. one part is shut down. neil: there are 11 other exchanges through which you could trade, yes? >> talk about this, you know, listen, if you own stock in the new york stock exchange versus nasdaq, these are public companies. nasdaq jumped on this immediately and said, hey, we're open for business. give us all your volume. neil: let's bring adam shapiro into this. he's got some news on these cyber skeptics. >> and one spent 26 years in the u.s. military as an intelligence officer in the air force.

he specialized in cybersecurity. he was a former member of the joint staff at the pentagon and deputy training director for the national security agency, and here's what he said just moment ago when i asked him is there a coincidence with these different computer systems having difficulties, he said, quote: i'm very suspicious. this is too coincidental. united, nyse and "wall street journal," so my suspicion is this was a test run by a cyber hacker or potentially from a nation-state. now, it's important to point out that united has said their computer problem was the fault of a router-degraded network connectivity issue. neil: just as i thought. [laughter] >> yeah. but here's what he says about that, i could probably sum it up in, you want to bet? he says, quote: it's certainly possible that a router issue could have far-reaching consequences for a system like united. question is, was the router tampered with in any way? that would add a physical dimension to the issue. it also points to the need for

multiple redundancy in situations like united, wonder why they don't have them? so was united router tampered with? the united statement doesn't rule out the potential for some kind of hack, and here's one of the people who thinks -- they're suspicious. neil: imagine if you were stuck on a united plane trying to trade reading wallstreetjournal.com -- [laughter] and it couldn't happen. [laughter] we just throw it out there. but by the way, the official read we're getting from government sources is that there is no connection to what's going on on the floor of the nyse and this technical glitch that halted all united airlines flights for about two hours earlier today, and "the wall street journal" web site down as well. mayor, you're getting all these pieces together. you're, let's say, the front person in this. picture it like a financial 9/11. what do you do with all this info? people are saying, mayor, you have to go out to the american

people and tell them what's up. what would you tell them? >> since i don't know what's happening -- neil: never stopped me, man. >> i would martial everything they can say and put a public face to this. they must have a public relations person or -- neil: that's interesting. so you would have the same material, you wouldn't know, but you would say this much we don't know. >> i'm going to go further than that. neil: okay. >> whoever is the ceo -- >> jeffrey sprecher. >> he is in charge. he gets out there in front of a microphone, and he explains what happens right now. neil: he doesn't seem to be willing to do that. >> hen he fail -- then he fails my book on leadership, chapter one. you step in and you take over, and you explain to people this is what we're doing to fix it. and if it's -- neil: and he hasn't done that. >> if it's going to take three days, tell them it's going to take three days. and if it's going to take a day -- neil: even if you have just that info, rudy? >> look, a lot of people right

now are working very hard, i'm sure, to try to bring this back. neil: they don't look like they're sweating right now, the folks i'm looking at. >> then that doesn't give you confidence in their leadership. neil: exactly. exactly. >> which means all these other markets get a tremendous competitive advantage. neil: bingo. >> we should put up charts of new york stock exchange and nasdaq, because i'd like to see how they're trading now. i really think what jeffrey sprecher -- neil: ice was down 2%. >> but what is the nasdaq doing? neil: i don't know. >> my point is that -- they're still down. everybody's down 20. in any event, he just -- he's never been a public guy. and one of things about the new york stock exchange and i think jeff sprecher needs to realize this is in many ways a public trust. it means something more than just a stock trade there. you are one of the leaders of capitalism. and as you know, diking grasso played -- dick grasso played that role brilliantly. neil: rudy giuliani did as well. >> used to be thought of as the

heart of the american economy. >> that's why they keep it open. part of the reason. neil neil this is new york. man up and tell us what's going on and not going on. >> i agree. neil: by the way, we did get a statement from sec chair mary jo white. she says we are in contact with the nyse, closely monitoring this situation and trading in nyse-listed stocks while they're working to resolve the problem. stocks continue to trade normally through other trading venues. so what she's doing is, essentially, what charlie was saying here. everyone take a chill pill, what do you make of snit. >> that's exactly the point charlie is making. they're getting a tremendous competitive advantage. neil: well, but she's saying, you know, american people, fear not. you can still trade, life goes on. >> other places to go. the new york stock exchange is supposed to be, you know, the new york yankees of stock trading, right? they're number one, the top one. and with a problem like this that they're not getting on top of, that brand start to erode.

neil: nicole petallides is in the middle of all this. i know you're with teddy weisberg there, but what are these guys doing, the ones who are around you? are they just -- what? what are they doing? >> they're all -- it's amazing, right? they're standing by the ramp, they're waiting to see when things will open. we had about 700,000 -- this is what i hear from the guys because the nyse won't tell us this stuff, they're saying what they have to say which is they're working on it. the traders will tell you there were 700,000 orders that they had to work on canceling, open orders. they're down to about 80,000 from 700,000, so that's significant. as they get closer, i wonder whether or not they'll try and reopen. and also there's no sign that this is reopening at this point. now, here is the thing, ted weisberg, right? he's a legend on wall street, you had him on a million times -- neil: well, he says he's a legend. >> legend in his own mind? >> thank you, neil. >> legend many any mind. >> that makes two of us.

[laughter] >> not worried. why? >> first of all, neil, a lot of folks that build redundancy into their business, most big firms i don't think there's a glitch as far as getting things done. basically, we do the business upstair ises that we would do on the floor. it's more of an embarrassment, and things break, you know? this is the world that the government gave us. electronic trading, look at united airlines today. i'm sure they didn't plan on ual going down, their entire system. neil: teddy, sounds like you're trying to blame others for this, they're not your friends. [laughter] >> he said it sounds like you're trying to blame others, not your friends. [laughter] >> i'm not blaming anybody. but i would blame the government because, you know, you hate to live in the past, but when it was all physical trading, we didn't have these problems. >> that's a good point. if you have the paper, right, the older guys know how to go to paper, ultimately. the younger guys don't, right? remember the days of paper, they would know how to do that -- >> whoa.

>> what? >> first off, i remember -- i'm old enough to remember -- neil: we've got the millennials. >> the 1987 crash, and paper was one of the problems. neil: could i give you an update here? our demo is flying away on these comments. continue. >> but one other thing, teddy, this is a problem. the new york stock exchange always had computersing -- computers, okay? >> right. >> this is a problem that aid the computers of the guys on the floor. it's not a problem with their computer system that can trade stocks. teddy just made my point again. they're trading upstairs. what does that mean? through computers. >> rest assured, president obama was just briefed on this as well, so the president is all caught up. >> and he said what is the stock exchange? neil: that's not necessary. [laughter] >> charlie, just gets himself loved everywhere. >> he doesn't deal in these very -- >> teddy, any last thoughts? how about we get some last thoughts from teddy. ted? >> you know, it's a glitch. things break.

we'll be up and running again. life will go on. it's not the end of the world. people can still get things done. it's really nobody is being inconvenienced other than those of us that are physically standing down here. neil: well, you don't look like you're breaking a sweat, teddy. i love you to death. i do want to -- i'm kidding. we're learning more about the tick tock on this. at around 11:32 a.m., the nyse was told that industry group problems began with certain ticker symbols earlier in the day. so, in other words, let's say at&t, apple, in other words, you were starting to have some you should sures with these -- issues with these. they're not fess spying what those were. as the day ensued on a call with nyse, bank executives and other big investors started noticing that the problem went beyond these ticker symbols. and then, of course, the cascading of events where we're trading and those others went out. it looks like a domino type of

disaster. only in the financial sense where they didn't know what was going on. how do you convey that, mayor? >> just exactly the way you did. i mean, information like that coming from the top executive showing that he knows what's going on, that he's in charge of this and he's doing the best they he can -- neil: would you do a press conference? >> he should have done it an hour ago. neil: what if you keep saying i don't know? >> he's not going to have to. he has things to say. i'm sure there is a theory that they are working on in trying to fix this. >> well, on tuesday after 9/11 -- >> and he could be saying the same thing as charlie. >> did you know everything? of course not. >> he could actually be saying some of the things that charlie is saying -- in in my next job, i'm going to charge a lot for that advice. [laughter] >> but the reality is he can explain that it isn't as big a disaster as it appears because trading is still going on. neil: you know, you're a lawyer -- >> it needs a public face. >> he's a technocrat. he's a guy that --

[inaudible conversations] neil: he can't risk saying anything, mayor, that can come back to bite his hiney. so he thinks the better part of valor is not to talk. >> i believe his wife runs pr. >> then his wife should be speaking. the new york stock exchange needs a spokesperson quickly. neil: this is the thing that the mayor would be all over and anthony scaramucci -- >> i just hired teddy. neil: anthony scaramucci, fbi official is telling fox news the bureau has offered assistance concerning the nyse situation, but at this time, this is not appear to be

nefarious. again, we're getting bits and pieces from security and other, ruling out cyberrelated attack. they're offering their help. but the white house is referring to treasury and anyone but them. but that they seem to know what it's not. they don't seem to know what it is, but they're pretty darn sure what it's not. what do you make of that? >> okay, well, it probably is that, but let's go to management 101 again and what the mayor said, while you guys were talking i e-mailed our trading desk and made sure our general counsel is sending out an e-mail to all our clients letting them know that orderly transactions are happening at our underlying hedge fund and though there's a problem at nyse, there is no problem at skybridge in terms of where we are. this is the big problem in general, neil, when you have a void or vacuum of communication, you get people nervous or people are nervous,

the next reaction is to start selling. what you got to hope for is the guy gets to a microphone quickly, resolves the problem and calms people down. neil: to the mayor's point, anthony, it's been an hour and a half, wow, this is fast time real market. >> he's afraid, that's why. he knows that the markets are running efficiently. he knows that this is -- even his archipelago trading system, the upstairs, that is a term of art, upstairs means it's not on the floor, it's trading well. neil: upstairs means it's not on the floor. >> not on the floor, it trades by computer. neil: i know that. >> but charlie, his business model when he sells his exchange and what they do to investors and the street says if you trade to the new york stock exchange, you get the backup of the specialists, plus a great computer. part of that sale is not

working, and he does not know what to do from a pup crisis standpoint. >> i think to the mayor's point, the longer the vacuum exists and very logical reasons, the more suspicious people get. >> absolutely right. they get worried it's a way bigger thing. one of the things the mayor did a great job of is here's what the situation is, here's what we're dealing with, and by the way, one of the most painful days in all of our lives it was very resonating and comforting, okay? he's not doing that, but what i'm saying to my staff right now is we have to do that. we have to make sure that people are aware that we're okay, and i would recommend that to other money managers out there. >> anthony is doing what a ceo should be doing. getting out in front of it and giving as much information as he has. neil: that's right. >> and explaining what he can so the people stay calm. also, it's very hard to

understand, although, i buy into the fact if everyone is saying it's not a cyberattack. if you don't know what happened, how do you know it's not a cyberattack? neil: exactly. yes. >> i'm using aristosillian logic. >> are you saying sicilian. >> well, he was greek. >> italian philosophers, how bad are they? you don't know what it is, which i believe they do know what it is. if you let it out there, that basically it sounds like we don't know what it is, how can you say it's not cyberattack. neil: i think their knee-jerk reaction is not to scare people. >> but they're scaring them. neil: watch on the fascination junk, authorities going out to say back then, more than 50 years ago trying to rule all this stuff out, before they knew where the shots came from,

what happened. instantly calm the people, our system of government is fine, everything is okay. >> alexander haig, i'm in control. [ laughter ] >> i'm just saying isn't that the knee-jerk reaction authorities do? >> no, not since september -- wasn't my knee-jerk reaction. i handled --. neil: i love you, there is no other senator, but when you address, you had concerns and they were relayed to you, you did not relay the immediate fears and concerns to american people, you weren't sure. >> when i was sure, then i would. neil: so you held back. >> they were out there. sometime i held back. i was the associate attorney general when ronald reagan was attempted assassination to ronald reagan. neil: 1981. >> and was the one who got hinckley out of the hands of the washington police and turned over to the fbi, and i know all the public statements that were made that day, and there were enormous numbers of

speculation. was it the soviets? was it the cubans? was it this? was it that? neil: how quickly were they putting out statements to say it wasn't any of those guys. >> statements were very careful, no indication of, no indication of, not definitive statements, not definitive statements. neil: these are definitive statements today. >> not definitive statements, they were all -- and we had an excellent public relations group, obviously an excellent group of lawyers, the justice department was in charge of putting out the statements and put out as no indication of, no current information that it is. notice the hedge, a very important hedge. if you say it is not cyberattack, and it turns out two dpras now that it is, you're dead. neil: money on the line, people can be sued. >> there is no indication. he will have to step down as ceo. he's a nice guy, i don't want to beat up on this guy. friends of mine are on the board of directors. really good people. vince is on the board, i

believe, or was on the board. neil: real italian concentration. >> in any event. this is primetime, i think what jeff has got to realize, when you run the new york stock exchange, it's not like running a computer system in atlanta which the intercontinental exchange used to be, used to do a lot of commodities and derivitives in atlanta. a small glitch is a big story. >> that's right, that's right, and most likely it is, and that's the way it's going to work out. what people are going to remember, let's assume it is none of the bad things. what people are going to remember is how poorly it was handled from the management point. in the case of anthony's company, people remember this is handled well, and his clients are going to remember he owes me dinner. [ laughter ] >> you know, rudy, you might have a future in the crisis management. >> great, i'm going to cut you off. neil: anthony scaramucci, i want to thank you, terry duffy

joins me, the cme group executive chairman. i noticed your exchange did not waste too much time to say hey things are fine here. is that still the case, terry? >> everything is fine at the cme, neil, and you know, we have in place, we put a rule in place a little while back, if, in fact, this was to happen, we have a 5% up, 5% down, we won't let our equity indexes trade past 5% up or down. they can only trade to that level until the markets come back up in new york. that's where we're at today. as you know, we settle off of s&p 500 index, not to the underlying products. neil: dick grasso was here earlier, the former new york stock exchange chairman said not your exchange but the sec should take control of this and not allow the other exchanges, yours included, to be trading here, it adds to the confusion, i think i'm cutting to the chase. that was about it, what do you think? >> dick's a dear friend of mine, and i think the world of

him. neil: he doesn't think the world of you. i think what he's saying is -- [ laughter ]. neil: sends mixed messages when one big exchange is down and others take advantage of it at the same time, what do you say? >> dick is absolutely correct, on 9/11 that's what we did. we live in a different world today. this is not a cyberissue. neil: how do you know that? >> the new york stock exchange tweeted it's not a cyberissue. neil: that would be like me saying i'm not overweight. >> i hear you. i don't know. neil: why would you put your confidence in a statement like that that might be proven wrong and time and again when the initial reaction to the flash cards we don't believe there is anything unusual here, we're going to get to the bottom of it when we learned it was a very, very big deal. >> because i think what we have to do, right now it's a technical glitch, it happened before the markets open and the markets opened. when you have companies like ours, when we put the rules in place like we did, which i

referenced, the 5% up or down, that takes away from the flash crash scenarios or the market going haywire that were tied to the new york stock exchange. neil: let me bring charlie gasparino in here. >> hi, charlie gasparino here. i agree the markets should be open and still trading. the recent we're getting decent trading. the world is going on with this little whatever is -- with the glitch. i want to ask you this, as mayor giuliani was talking about it before, the neil was talking about it, you know jeff sprecher really well, he was a competitor when he ran the intercontinental exchange and still a competitor, do you think he's doing a good job? should he be doing what you're doing and rudy jewel said needs to be done, be the public face, here's what's going on, but the new york stock exchange is up and running essentially. >> yeah, here's the problem, charlie, here's where i agree with you. the new york stock exchange -- neil: i want to -- as you're talking, the "wall street

journal."com site is back up and running, so one thing is back up and running, now we just have the other exchange to worry about, go ahead. >> i was going to say when you're the new york stock exchange, and you only trade 23-25% of your own listed companies, it's almost irrelevant because of your iconic brand that you have and the trust factor that charlie referenced earlier and that the mayor referenced and others. that's important, the smaller investor, they don't know about the 70 different portals of liquidity that the hedge funds have access to right now. they think the world is coming to an end because the new york stock exchange is down. neil: terry, when you say 20% of trading at ny listed stocks occurs on the new york stock exchange, is that by the weight of the stock or just the number of stocks because it could be very big names there that trading is going to be tougher in. >> 25%, neil, of the listed stocks trade their volume on the nyse. the rest of the list of stocks,

nyse trade off of that platform. >> le down further. this is why sprecher doesn't know what the hell to say. of the 20% most of it trades on the part of the new york stock exchange i believe, terry, correct me if i'm wrong. that's up and running, the archipelago, correct? >> the options are up and running, that's going. and i'm not sure about the archi platform. neil: we're getting conflicting reports -- sorry, trying to do this as you're speaking on the volume and how it's been affected since. we're told it is running about 20% prior to the 11:32 a.m. beginning of the shutdown in trading or the slowdown in trading to charlie's point. trading not being halted but dramatically slowed to. his point and the mayor's point, trading is going on in the other dozen exchanges. >> 20% of their volume. neil: well, at a minimum, at a minimum, but they'll get back on and we'll get everything back on. this has got to be for the new

york stock exchange a big black eye. >> it is, and the big black eye right now to put aside whatever the reason for this is is the inability to communicate. the new york stock exchange, as every one of these gentlemen pointed out, most americans have no idea any b anything you're talking about. most americans think there's one place where you trade stocks on the new york stock exchange. they have no idea about 70 different exchanges and the new york stock exchange has three exchanges. apparently a dark pool, they have archipelago and the specialists. >> the new york stock exchange has an obligation to the american people to explain that whatever this, is even if it is a cyberattack of some kind, is not a tragedy. that the world can still go on, they're down 20% volume or maybe a little more than that. neil: they're working at 20%, so actually down 80%. >> and you have the other exchanges that are trading, it's not having a major impact.

neil: you're okay with the cyber comment, your thought, mayor, they'd have to be pretty darn sure to rule out anything cyber. >> they better be sure. i have not seen in any of these things what i would expect to see if somebody running crisis management, you know, took my advice or my course or anybody else's, which is all indications are. at this time it appears it is not a cyberattack. there's no information it's a cyberattack, there's no evidence it's a cyberattack, because if it is, and they said definitively as they have that it is not, then they look like -- >> and the fact that they're not out there, if archipelago is up and running, they lost 80% of volume because they're not saying anything. everybody thinks the stock exchange is down. neil: you're in a major vacuum here, and for those of you who just tuned in, we're now at 90+

minutes into what has been a dramatic trading slowdown on the floor of the new york stock exchange, hence these guys who look like they have nothing they can do outside of a late lunch order, former cyber czar howard schmidt is on the phone with us now. howard, i don't know if you heard the mayor and it might be premature for anyone in official washington to be ruling out cyber, but maybe comfortable doing so. anything look freaky to you here because the same day we had the two-hour computer glitch that grounded all these united airlines flights. china, half a world away, a lot of computer related issues, a third issues halted, then computer problems commencing their trades. lot of weird computer stuff going on. we're told all disconnected right now and no way to tie them in, you say what? >> i think a coincidence reason to give suspicion about a lot

>> when you bring down one portion of it, it fails over another portion of it. you may lose capacity, you may lose numbers talking about 80%, but the bottom line is the business goes on. the interesting thing at the same time was the united airlines and the "wall street journal," and what they saw, it would be interesting to get something from them that says okay, they're back up and running, how did they analyze this? was it just the day where a lot of software was updated and it broke? what was the situation that

they saw, because they have people looking at it quicker than the government is going do it. >> you're right about that. thank you very much, maria bartiromo joining us right now. maria, very good to have you. we're getting indications from homeland security secretary that says these problems at united airlines and the nyse are not related, nothing nefarious going on. to the mayor's point earlier, that's a big leap to take if it turns out it was. they're ruling a lot of stuff out, we don't know what's still in? >> great points have been made. i think they are being adamant on saying it is not a cyberattack, and that it was, in fact, a computer glitch. i think you have to remember the point you made is critical and it is there are other places to trade. you know, when i was down on the floor of the new york stock exchange, in the 90s, you're talking about 5,000 people on the floor of the exchange spread out through five rooms. today, it's one room, and there are under 500 people working at the exchange, 300 people, why?

because you don't need all the manpower because so many venues are there in terms of electronic venues to trade. so i suspect tomorrow we're going to see a lot of mistakes in terms of orders, people thought they went through, they didn't go through, remember what happened during the flash crash, and remember when other situations happened where there was that one ubs trader who didn't know the facebook trade went through, he kept putting it through. neil: that was my trade, it was very embarrassing. [ laughter ] >> the cleanup will be -- >> you mentioned, there is a distinction that this is a computer glitch, we're pretty sure it's not cyber. couldn't a glitch be cyber? >> we don't know the origin of the glitch, sure it could be. neil: that's what worries me, maria, i know i'm sounding like oliver stone here, or you, which is tragic.

if you're saying a glitch itself -- >> i'm extremely frustrated by the following fact, my sense tells me this is probably not a cyberattack. however, how the heck do i know that? and how am i going to find that out without an investigation, and how i can possibly truly out? if it's taken an hour and a half to take this thing back together and now more, how can you rule out the possibility of a cyberattack. >> but would they do that if they didn't have the evidence saying it is not? >> if they have the evidence it's not a cyberattack, they should be able to fix the problem. that's a pretty deep incursion into a system to be able to figure out it's not a cyberattack. neil: hell of a glitch. >> if you can figure out it's not a cyberattack, should be able to fix the system. definitively figure out it's not a cyberattack. my guess is it is not a cyberattack, and these are three unconnected incidents. but you don't gain the public's

confidence by announcing in the first 15 minutes it's not a cyberattack. neil: they're weighing the odds. >> and you don't say what it is. in fact what you should say is, there are no indications it's a cyberattack. neil: it looks like a glitch. >> we're going to look into all aspects of this. the way i did with a fire, a big building is on fire. how do i rule out arson until i investigate completely exactly how the fire took place? >> i think this is jeff sprecher, ceo, decent guy, who's failing. >> and the failure to communicate. neil: you don't get a second chance. >> the failure to communicate increases the conspiracy theorists who may be way off the mark. neil: the images are feeding the beast here, and maria, what i was going to say, having worked on the floor of the new york stock exchange, these guys are looking kind of helpless. they wander around. >> i just got an e-mail from one of my trader sources,

friends who said maria, please help me get off of this floor. get me out of this, unbelievable. they're dying, they're dying, first of all the business has dried up. that's number one. number two, there's a lot of pride on the floor of the new york stock exchange. the traders that have been there for decades, they love the place and it's not the same. >> but they're not specialists as much anymore. let's be clear, when you were on the floor of the stock exchange, 80% of the new york stock exchange listed stocks traded through the -- dick grasso made sure of that. traded their volume through the stock exchange. 20% went off. now directly the opposite. >> you are making him sound like a mob figure. >> who? neil: dick grasso. >> he got on planes and he went to italy and beijing and everywhere else to make sure to get the business. and went to goldman sachs and said when you trade at nasdaq, you got a better price or else that's violating the law, that's what he did. >> no matter what it is or

isn't today, it's a business, and the head of the business has an obligation to the public to explain what's going on and he's not doing it, and there's no way dick grasso wouldn't have done that. >> agreed. >> sprecher is investigating this and probably doesn't want to come out too soon. >> why can't he just say something that teddy weisberg said. listen, you got a fire going on in a large building, and the fire commissioner and the mayor aren't talking to the public about the fact that there's a fire going on, the fire department is doing everything that it can to put it out. we have saved most of the people in the building, we don't know what the reason for it is yet but we're working on it and working on it and working on it 24 hours a day until it's solved. those are the things. >> like anthony scaramucci did. >> right, those are the things a ceo, a chief executive, a leader says to the troops to keep them calm, while they're working behind the scenes and

an hour and a half is totally unacceptable. neil: postponed my lunch at the new york stock exchange. we're going there and get food tasters in that event. i want to bring in connell mcshane, you are getting new developments here. >> one of the things charlie brought up earlier is the competitive advantage part of this where the nasdaq says we're open for business when the new york stock exchange is having its problems. we started the track the equities involved and see how the exchanges are trading today. interesting they're all with one exception cboe all moving lower and the intercontinental exchange which controls the new york stock exchange, that stock price is down, the stock price is on the screen right now, a similar amount, a little less than what the nasdaq is percentagewise, cboe your specializing in options and future, that's the one exception to the rule. life goes on as you've been talking about. >> what the mayor said is so important. neil: communicate, communicate, communicate.

>> here's the thing, the minute this happened i knew everything was basically okay, because i'm immersed in this stuff, i know this, different markets, i know the new york stock exchange has the archipelago system where you can trade through. the average person thinks the new york stock exchange and rightly so is the epicenter of capitalism. when that thing goes down you know what hits the fan, and it is incumbent upon the ceo of that organization to say that's not the case. even if it hurts your business. >> especially unprecedented. we've never seen this happen before. >> this is not as bad as the nasdaq crash. >> but the new york stock exchange. neil: the flash crash duration right now. we're two hours into it. terry duffy, i know you got to go the the cme, we're hearing the nyse will not reopen, if it does not open by 2:30 it will issue guidance how it will handle scheduled deletions to u.s. indices, their way of

saying, if you can chill out another hour, we'll let you know. that is really not encouraging. what do you make of that? >> there's a couple of things, i've been listening to the conversation, if it was another platform, it wouldn't be getting near the media. but this is the new york stock exchange, even though the volume is left of other platforms, so when you look at it, it's not that big of a deal from an investor standpoint, it's a perception issue and that's the big deal. i'm assuming jeff is looking at that right now, seeing all the media attention it's getting and now he's going to come out and make really sure he can tell everybody exactly what it is. you got to remember exchanges like cme and others, we have multiple different match engines for multiple different asset classes, if he's switching because match engine went down to get the equities back up and running, you don't unplug one and plug in another, that's a process you have to go through. i'm not saying that's what's going on. we have 10 to 12 different

match engines, if one goes down we have to reallocate it. neil: they're not reallocating, if they are they're using another system. >> if that is the case, why wouldn't you explain that? neil: exactly, and you had two hours to do so. >> charlie, i agree with you. >> why wouldn't you explain that. they're doing something. >> this is a guy, mr. sprecher, a decent guy who has never done this before. he ran a computer system in atlanta. okay. there are people right now working on that computer system trying to fix it. they're doing something. he should be explaining what they're doing. neil: so you're saying they're botching it bigtime. i don't think they're going to get a second chance to make a first impression, we could be looking at -- they're not doing, that mayor. >> even though there are other venues trading desks who can trade, there is an unspoken agreement. if the new york stock exchange is down, trading is halted.

neil: that's what grasso is saying, he was surprised the others kept -- changes. there is national market structure. neil: what do you make of that, maria? there may be not conventional form that they're following? >> i think as investor you have to be careful if that is the case. you don't have liquidity you usually have. you don't have venues. neil: what if it turns out you did and it wasn't so damaging? what would -- >> huge blow to new york stock exchange. >> no, liquidity of just the specialists as terry just pointed out and a few other people, i'm not saying it is diminimous. one more player in the market. but not that big of a deal anymore. neil: that's what i'm saying. this is selling off and trading resumes, maria selling off but people will look at this, well, what is the big deal with these guys? >> that's what i say.

>> that is big issue here post this crisis on new york stock exchange. the fact it wasn't as relevant as people thought. >> maybe not run as well? neil: what is not run as well? >> well, what they're demonstrating, i probably shouldn't go to the new york stock exchange for a while, what they're demonstrating they don't seem to know how to manage their business. and these other businesses seem to know how to manage better. if you can not within an hour 1/2 of something like this get out in front of the public and explain what the heck you are doing to fix this, instead you're putting out pieces of paper saying, if by 2:30 it doesn't work we'll send everybody home from school, then it doesn't look like you're managing a very -- neil: that is exactly what they said. >> particularly when for you, half of your company -- we should point out, look at the floor of the new york stock exchange. that looks like an average day. that is what they're doing. neil: you're just a hater. >> no, that is what they're

doing now. >> you don't see that kind of manpower. neil: sometimes they're walking very fast. >> when they come back from owe hall loranne's bar across the street. neil: that is lovely. nicole petallides on floor of that fine institution. what can you tell us? are you anything? >> i'm hearing frustration echoing on set with mayor rudy giuliani, the frustration where is management? that is certainly front and center. they're wondering with jeff stepper and tom farley is. why are you laughing? you're absolutely right. they put up velvet ropes to try to keep out everybody from the ramp where is where the real news -- d.j. let me in. that is really element here. the traders are frustrated because they have to wait to see what happens. also want more information. the last i heard they were in the midst of canceling over 700,000 orders. those orders that were open orders. maybe market-on-close orders. down 80,000, last i heard.

there is no word when they're going to reopen. the close ultimately would be the best, they have to get the close. that is the best part of the day. but for now, they're left in the dark and waiting. now just trying to eat some lunch. that is what we're down to. neil: very long lunch. nicole, thank you very much. go ahead. >> i will have to run in a minute. reminds me, this may be a off the point and twa, swissair, they both had crashes out of kennedy airport while i was mayor and new york stock exchange fire department and actually police department responded to the twa crash and handled it. and swissair crash, we responded to the families. twa mishandled it completely, in terms of information given to the public. twa's ceo was gone a month later, two months later. and twa is gone. swissair handled it perfectly right from very beginning. ceo got in front of cameras. i don't know exactly what happened, or exactly why it happened this is what we're doing.

this is number of people putting into it. we have 400 people on the way from all over the world to help each family member. we'll have a family center in new york. we'll have a family center in nova scotia. the mayor is willing to help us. thank you, mayor, for helping us. he shouldn't let me run it. i shouldn't have to run it. i ran the twa run. he maintained ceo. swissair is still there. this got into fact this was first crash. he got into good fact this is unusual. he didn't get it in defensively but explained all the things they're doing to fix the problem. he didn't know why the plane crashed when he got no front of the public. we dent know for works. meanwhile twa left open for days the possibility that rockets might have hit it. neil: oh, sure. >> in my book i explain the difference between an effective ceo and ineffective ceo. neil: those are good examples. >> saying i have my hands on the

situation, what are you doing about it. >> and he probably does. he probably does. they're doing something. >> can you run for mayor again? neil: again, we are officially a little bit more than two hours into this since the new york stock exchange shut down its main market because of this computer malfunction, this glitch as we've seen reporting here. they seem to be ruling out anything cyber related but traders have been forced to steer a lot of their orders to a dozen or so other exchanges and mechanisms available to buy or sell securities. now to maria bartiromo's point, we don't know how liquidity has been affected here and whether buy and sell orders are representative what would be actual market buy or sell in a generally accepted market buy or sell environment. but the fact of the matter is, we just have no way to piece this together until someone from this august institution speaks but it is not looking good for them at this hour because two hours into this they're not saying anything. not to their troops. not to the media. not to anyone.

and we were mentioning among other examples the tylenol scare pack in the earl 1980s. when the capsules were tampered with, the ceo took it upon himself to get rid of all the capsules, bring on at great expense, caplets now commonplace. it was never johnson & johnson's fault but again they later gain ad bigger share of a market that was scaring the bejesus out of people back then. that was then. this is not the case right now. to connell mcshane with some other developments. connell. >> the other developments are a tweet, neil, i will tell you about that i saw a while ago even while sitting down with you guys. we didn't report on it right away and even if we do now with a large caveat there is no connection between this tweet and anything happening today but getting a lot of attention. a hacker group or hacktivist group as some people call it, anonymous, i'm sure you heard of it, we all have, put out tweet. this is 12 hours before what happened at new york stock exchange took place. wonder if tomorrow is going to be bad for wall street? we can only hope.

so that in context of what we've been talking about is obviously getting much more attention than it normally would. even as i said, as we reported it is with a caveat. we don't see any connection between what they're saying and what is happening. they did say it and that is the group that said it. >> neil, there are two schools of thought you have, showed really good tv. how it disaffects the small investor and how the small investor should look at this, average guy trading stock. there is the dick grasso view and maybe maria view, if you take one player out of the market, even a small player like specialist at the new york stock exchange out of market, decreases liquidity, doesn't get best price, all markets should shut down. that is one view. there is terry duffy view and my view essentially there is some liquidity cut out but other markets benefit because there are other trading place enforcement than the new york stock exchange including archipelago and life

goes on. you might not get perfect or best price you're getting a investor. if you're long term investor you don't meatier much. neil: maria, do you know? >> i agree with charlie there should be another mechanism. that is why things are so fractured because there are other mechanisms to trade. there are away from the new york stock exchange. >> >> it's: right. >> but you're right, dick grasso's view is look, we're the new york stock exchange. we have been the origin and largest player. when the new york stock exchange shuts down everybody should shut down. over the years everybody followed that. neil: ifyou're all the open orders out there, guys, all the open orders and nyse cancels them do they go somewhere else? >> if people opt -- >> at this point they will sort through them. i think they are canceled. neil: that is my next question. if they get done through these other vehicles, aren't these investors going to say, hell, who needs the nyse? >> yes, yes. >> it could be a black eye. this is a small part of what the new york stock exchange does. the new york stock exchange,

let's be clear here, when you were covering that on the floor it was the, it was the mother load. that is where most of the volume goes. it doesn't go there right now. how does it make money? stocks get listed. you have to pass listing requirements. it sells data. it does do some trading matching buyers and sellers. that is largely done through a computer and some of these guys on the floor. remember this is a small part of the business but when they go selling business they do sell it we give you both. neil: psychological point you make, institution and face and image to the american people. right now it looks like a waiting room at a dentist office. >> that is how it always looks. neil: it doesn't always look. >> it looked that way last few years. neil: that is because you're just a hater. >> that the floor is quiet. 500 people working out of one room than five rooms in the 90s. neil: one dude back there playing solitaire. >> they're always playing solitaire. >> no they're not. >> sometimes they're playing --

neil: been doing this for two hours. >> sometimes they play peknuckle on the floor. neil: you're an i'd i don't think. idiot. on the phone is wilbur ross, he is in london. london, boy, how can they market off of this, wilbur? what do you think? >> well, i think that the new york stock exchange still is a symbol and particularly with the foreign companies we like listing on new york. so do quite a lot of american companies. it's a symbol. neil: symbol charlie gasparino doesn't appreciate it. >> i appreciate it. i tell you they do more listing than trading. >> yeah. >> is it just symbolic, wilbur or practical as you're saying? will other trading shut down because the new york is shut down? >> i don't think so. for one thing they canceled open orders. now they're shut down all together.

neil: right. >> the only orders that had to be rerouted were the open orders. orders that were not open orders could be put anywhere anyway. >> yeah. neil: but, i guess what i'm getting at, wilbur, while the cat's away or just stranded, others will play. will london, bonn, berlin? will other exchanges take advantage and say this stuff doesn't happen here. >> but it has helped elsewhere. in tokyo it happened. neil: 10 years ago yesterday it happened. >> to me the surprising thing is with all the years of doing it you would think they would be more in the way of redundancy and more in the way of backup systems so if there were an interruption it would be brief rather than multiple hours. the duration of this does surprise me. >> multiple hours of a small part of the business. i think the redundancy is the market structure i think.

for better or worse, like i said there are two schools of thought. i believe it is good this stuff will trade in other markets. if you want to buy a stock, maybe you won't get the best price as dick grasso says one small player out. >> you can't call the new york stock exchange small an insignificant. >> specialists are small an insignificant. they're nice guys, i know that. >> wilbur said it is really important is symbolic. >> that is another story. >> it all fits together. >> no, it doesn't. >> i think broader problem with all the new capital rules, there is much less capital on every trading desk. >> that is whole other issue. blame paul volcker and barack obama for that. >> dodd-frank. >> that is the volcker rule. what i'm saying is, listen, they're a symbol, new york stock exchange. why people like to list there. but stocks generally don't trade there. they certainly don't trade as much through specialists. neil: maybe take as crisis like this to bring them down a peg or

two. >> maybe this completely ends the specialist system? neil: they're having a bad day today. josh earnest speaking to reporters. we'll not take you there. he needless to say he has spoken about the developments. the white house is convinced that nyse has effective information system for dealing with this. that would be news to moi. they do not think anything nefarious is going on. gerri willis is with me. scott martin is with me. gerri, on the pr perspective not a good day. >> terrible day. you add to this the "flash crash." you add this to the 07, 08 meltdowns it is astonishing. maria said nyse used to be 5,000 people but now it is 300. maria knows that, charlie knows that, we know that, but american people don't. when they see nyse closed for business, they take afternoon off, they think, what the heck

is going on? you guys made interesting comments of vacuum of leadership how nyse is not stepping forward. who is jumping into the vacuum? financial advisors all over the country. like ric edelman we tell people calling and ask, we're saying not a big deal. stocks are trading normally on other exchanges. so liquidity is not problem. >> liquidity -- trading normally on new york stock exchange. listen to this, four hours in unprecedented mark set session and new york stock exchange composite volume continues to run right in line with one month average. that is charlie brady. i am telling this is nothing compared to the "flash crash," what happened with the nasdaq. this is -- >> american people don't know that. >> they should watch fox business and figure it out. >> that's right. neil: one of the things i'm also getting friend of mine works in the community, your business, as soon as this happened traders were seeking out other alternatives. after the bump, the move to buy

and sell somewhere else. so even if you had an open order ceased or stop you were looking to trade somewhere else. if that is all true and to the point charlie brady was relaying to us and charlie just mentioned that would seem to indicate, all right, new york stock exchange seems to have some problems. we can go on. we can find another way to continue doing what we're doing. again the potential death knell for this american institution, what do you think of that? >> yeah. i mean brokerage with good order execution systems which frankly have been improved because of things like the "flash crash" allow those orders to get routed to where they're going to get filled but i'll tell you, you look around today and it just feels strange to me. it is two hours later after this halt. we don't know what's going on. united airlines issues. china, by the way, our friend overseas have lost, what, trillions of dollars in the last few weeks in their stock market? neil: they wish they would have a market shutdown. >> they may not have one anymore and going after us to make us

feel the pain. seems a little odd to me this stuff is not connected. neil: guys, do you think, let's say you're a young investor and looking at everything that is going on and you're thinking, you know, markets had good run i want to buy on dips. i'm over the meltdown thing that affected my parents, did this just blow that today. >> no. what happened in 2008 was so much worse. the fed is much bigger -- neil: talking about your confidence in the people who will make the trades? that it's a rigged system. >> the trades are going on. >> market was down 500 -- >> i don't think that is what the problem is. talk to people all the time about their individual invests, this makes them nervous. this makes them antsy. >> makes them nervous but they don't know what they're talking about. >> -- 2008, the retail investor never fully came back because they left the market as of 2008.

i think markets, no, will get through this look, the u.s. markets are the most liquid, deepest in the world. so i do think, markets will come out of this. we will find out what happened and why this happened. and we will get beyond it. but in the meantime, you're growing to see a negative reaction. you're already seeing it. probably tomorrow it continues. >> that is what our job is. our job -- >> funny, market hasn't gotten worse. >> you know why, scott? this is non-event almost. that is one of the things -- neil: doing it a couple hours. >> so far. >> it underscores the fact that a stock exchanges don't know what they're doing. >> has this ever happened, charlie? how is this non-event. >> other things have happened. >> cancel orders. >> on specialists. not on archipelago where most of the stuff -- >> new york stock exchange this has never happened. it's a big deal. >> it's a big deal for a very small portion of the market. neil: this is historic institution that has been shut down. >> part of it has been shut down. >> it is shut down for all

intents and purpose. >> no, it is not. you can trade through archipelago. neil: trading on other mechanisms but this is iconic image. >> also r unless, we look at that image like that, it is like that every day. neil: charlie, trying to help you with the people you ignore which is our viewers and they are telling you, wait a minute, this is an institution i thought was a big deal. >> that is average day on new york stock exchange. that picture. i'm telling you that. >> he is right. it is. neil: no way. i've seen them walk much faster. >> only because there are, a lot fewer people down there. business is not what it was. >> move faster at 4:30 when they have to run to the bar. neil: wilbur, you still with us? you were reacting to that. charlie dismissing it, not a big deal anyway. what about you? we lost wilbur. he was so incensed with charlie. to hell with him. go made, scott. >> isn't this how some of these hacks start, charlie?

>> i don't know. a hack that is really bad. we're not discounting that. >> go after things like target. we had -- some of the federal employees information taken. it takes little pieces to build up into something bigger. >> a lot of ifs. if this if, this is a cyberattack, we're talking a whole different ballgame here. they actually penetrated. >> they said it is not a cyberattack. >> if that is the case it is not as bad as the "flash crash" or nasdaq breakdown. which was a hell of a breakdown. >> eye rolling, real people with money in the markets, can't keep the stock market open? are you kidding? that is reaction i'm getting. >> that is not reality. >> that's what people believe. >> why is that not reality. >> that is the stock market. it is open. >> it hasn't moved much. >> market actually rallied. you know why? it went down 200 points. now it is back to 175. >> there is not much movement. >> you're saying that because of

three traders on new york stock exchange? come on. >> people are afraid and they're sitting on cash. they do not want -- >> that is whole macroeconomic issue. neil: people are still joining us. i will have to send you to bed without dinner. >> is that my -- neil: latte. one of the things we should say this is going on better part of almost 2 1/2 hours right now. trading halted on new york stock exchange and charlie said, maria reminded, not allding, there are vehicles you can get the stock. >> read that. neil: i understand. let me finish. one of the things happening people are discovering life goes on when this happenings and trading through other mechanisms. whatever they decide, another i guess, 40 minutes or so, they will detail how they will spend rest of the day, gerri. might as well fold up the tent right now because it is clear that people found other vehicles through which to trade their favor stocks, they will discover

i don't need these guys guys ant could be worst development of all. that my turn out even with a glitch not as sinister. >> the point charlie making that volume assume left the nyse is due to frequent traders. they know that. neil: archipelago is not a tourist site. >> that is a problem. that is a different issue. neil: my point is that the. these are issues people see and remember things, maria first woman on the floor of the exchange. this is historic institution and looking like a teradactyl. >> that is whole another issue. >> one thing we can say it is not china or government shutting down the stocks. neil: not so sure. >> telling people you talk to these stocks are being traded on new york stock exchange through archipelago. charlie brady says it right here. the volume is the same. it is trading not through those specialists who are walking

around like that same way every day. neil: do you see through your little academic weeds there, historic look, the significance of what we're looking at? now a dinosaur folding its tent? >> unfortunately we don't like to talk about that. >> yes or no, do you or not? >> i've been saying this last five years. neil: talk to the hand. talk to the hand. wilbur ross, i want to bring you back, correct me if i'm wrong but don't correct me, that that the new york stock exchange as an institution is dying today. it is screwing up hugely today? what do you think? >> well, it is a big problem, that's for sure for today. but i think the role of the institution is changing anyway. neil: shrinking fast. >> it has now become very much a meeting place. >> yep. >> lots of conferences are held there. >> sell data. neil: absolutely. >> use it for their board meetings. they're all kinds of new function. >> that's true.

that is true. >> it's a big tv studio. when you were there, i remember people bumping into you. they weren't doing it on purpose i'm assuming. >> not on purpose. i was in the way. that was function how many people were on the floor of new york stock exchange. >> stuff happened there. >> stuff happened. they didn't know the cameras were rolling. neil: they allowed you in there? >> they did and you know, of course. i go there every now and then. neil: because they would love to have you back what you've been saying. >> good friend of mine is a security guard. >> security guards are great. >> former new york city cop. neil: tell you guys, it is museum. >> took over, acquired new york stock exchange there has been speculation will he get rid of the floor. you're right. >> will he get rid of open outcry trading. that this is kind situation that pushes him in that direction. >> i think he will. >> he said ad manly i'm not selling the floor -- adamantly. >> i think he will. >> put our viewers somewhere

else and tell them trade something going on somewhere else. >> new york city guy annoyed at something i reported, join the club, i sent a memo out there, why do we need to be there? i know it is a studio but if they're charging us to be on the floor why do we need to be there? because the action isn't there? it's a nice studio. looks good. >> it is interesting when you talk about the need for revenue because everything has gotten squeezed so much. the fact they want to raise fees in sort of these little places just for being there tells you sort of desperation you're talking about. neil: i remember when fox started, i told roger ailes can we do it from tad's steakhouse? >> i want to do it from the hunt and fish club. neil: a little highbrow. wilbur ross, if you're with us. think of all crosscurrent and developments rand heightened fears what is going on on with china and greece. certainly fears about puerto rico. united airlines flights stopped

because of computer glitch. average american, investor, person period will look at all the crosscurrents to say whoa, whoa, something is going on and i'm scared. how does this, things from a guy like you keep them calm. >> i don't think this event as such is a big deal. i'm much more concerned about what is going on in china and in my individual case, much more concerned about greece than about this issue. this thing will come and go. a week from now, nobody will remember that they shut down. neil: oh, we'll remember. >> hasn't really affected the prices of things. neil: no, you're right. we're kind of where we were before all this started in that sense, but maria, i'm looking at this, and thinking as well, these are scary times. china can't get a handle on its market. we weem to be for time being having a problem with big chunk of our market. >> not a big chunk. neil: fine.

>> that in a strange way, neil, in a strange way it is distracting people from some much more subassistant tiff problems. >> i agree. neil: fair enough. psychological, all i'm looking at -- >> it is very eerie. the fact that china closed or halted, 50% of the its stock. then you had incident with united airlines. you had the incident with the "wall street journal" now the new york stock exchange. you know, people are going to try to make some connections. we know that powers that be said there is no connection and this is not a cyberattack. neil: this is oliver stone. >> look at that market is coming back. >> they took a lit? >> on this? neil: confidence before the "flash crash." >> all these things come together. >> if we're under cyberattack they would have shut down all the market. >> that's right. i think it is our job to put it in perspective. new york stock exchange is not closed down. it is still trading the same amount of volume through the. neil: we're not disagreeing with

that. what we're telling you, limited or not, it is institution, a tourist mecca that has been he revealed for what it is. sort of like the end of "wizard of oz" and you see the guy behind the curtain and you refuse to see significance of that which means you are blind. >> there is lot more significance than. >> i don't think so. neil: oh, really? i wish we had austin powers chair with the flip back. >> hit the red button. >> downstairs burning. i'm barely injured. neil: scott martin, you are still there, are you still there, scott? >> yeah, i'm here. neil: scott, what do you tell investors tomorrow? i don't even know if they open up this baby today. but to this point, trading has gone on things happened throughout all of this you will have to do a little bit of handling tomorrow and how will you tell investors and reassure them. walk me through it. >> i have already started. nyse has a couple hours left to fix some computers. here is the issue. if you're an individual

investor, guess what? the good newsom stuff is working today. some big lash cap stocks are flat to slightly up. bonds have rallied in the midst of a really ugly equity tape. these things move in direction of each other. gold and metals which have been absolutely hammered and smoked in the last three months, are rallying as well. if you're investor with diversified portfolio which you should have anyway, i would add hack stocks as well. hack has a good etf with internet security stocks you will be pretty good with this even though you didn't get a couple trades in. >> market is off the lows. >> should close it all the time. neil: that we're being fooled into thinking no big deal? >> neil this is -- >> i don't think this is not a big deal. i think markets get through this. i think new york stock exchange get through this but i think this is a big deal.

this is a major flaw when you have new york stock exchange having to halt trading, even though it is still going on at archipelago. i think this is a big deal. neil: to that point, wilbur, do you think this could set up something even a dry run as glitches go for something bigger? >> this really were some sort of cyberattack they wouldn't have just shut down the new york exchange. >> yes. >> they would have shut down a lot more. neil: assuming -- >> why wouldn't you go with the big one first? >> why would cyberattack focus on one part of new york stock exchange that does least amount of trading? >> i don't know, charlie. it is an icon. >> playing a little devil's advocate a la rudy giuliani. a little -- neil: bo dietl. you know, the mood of people right now. anxiety of people right now. you know everyone will focus on china tomorrow and bright and

early maria will look at it. the concern is that it is a funky environment. it is anxious environment. >> it doesn't take you deciding stocks are not worth it, doesn't take you to decide the economy is not great, i really, i don't like that. i'm not growing to go there. i'm not going to invest. i will hold my money back. let's see what it is like tomorrow, the next day, the next year. one of those slow motion decisions this kind of attitude i think will be at work. >> if you talk to individual investors out of the market largely, sometimes getting back in on the margins since 2008, they're worried about, i not saying they should be worried about, fed printing money. which they shouldn't worry about because that caused market to go up and a lot of other issues. >> they're worried about wages, economies jobs. they're not worrying -- neil: this black juan event, china, holt -- black swan events. mull pill black swan events.

>> what i like about you make lemonade with lemons. neil: i won't let go. everything, percentages everybody else i will say this, if this is what a glitch does, if this is what gets people at iconic institution stopped, maybe it reminds people of it is insignificance but reminds people how easy to do. >> good point. >> would have been a bigger deal if this were trading suspended because of too many sell orders and -- neil: very good point. that is a very good point. >> that would be a big red-letter day. neil: we still have some red arrows across the board. does that disturb you at all, wilbur? >> it disturbs me. it is annoying but i don't think it is -- neil: easy when you're wilbur and billionaire. >> annoy you, what is happening in greece. neil: little annoying down maybe million 1/2. i want to thank all my colleagues and friends. we'll keep an eye throughout the

day on fox business. i will get into this couple hours from now on fox news as well. again an iconic institution still vital to our near and dear american institution. >> vital? neil: grounded to a halt. an institution stopped. what does it mean? trish regan now. trish: here we are, neil. just a little more 2 1/2 hours into the stand still at new york stock exchange. no shares changing hands there at 11 wall and nyse blaming the shutdown on quote, a technical glitch. it says a cyberattack is not to blame. the fbi maintains this glitch does not appear to be nefarious but can we really rule out a cyber threat this early in the process? don't forget this is all happening on the exact same day that united reported a quote, technical glitch. the department of homeland security is saying that the two are not related. however cybersecurity expert,