stuart: my time is up. i now want to see neil cavuto, waiting to go on the air. neil, are you there? neil: yes, i am. stuart: wait a minute, before you launch, you tried to fire your producer, we chucked ours out of a plane. go. [laughter] neil: your producer wants to volunteer the same ride without a parachute. [laughter] thank you very, very much. by the way, ralph -- unfortunately -- is still here. a big drop in oil prices this week, bouncing around the $42, $43 a barrel, but here on "cavuto coast to coast," we're wondering how much lower this goes because it has fallen about 4% this week. we're in and out of lows we've not seen since early mar of 2009 -- march of 2009? what if i told you the good news in this very well could be that this is the oxygen, if you think about it, for isis. this is the sole means of

survival and financial wherewithal for this terror organization that has upped the ante all around the world. this is the financing vehicle. they take over areas, they sell the oil on the black market, and that's what finances their operations to the tune of close to $2 million a day. well, that's when oil prices were more than double what they are now. assume they're take anything half that now if they're lucky. so this continues the flipside here, it could be not only good news at the pump, it could be very good news for those who are sort of wringing their hands as to how to, how do you conquer isis? retired general richard newton on this and what it could mean. think about it, general, this has been the key money raiser for them. if oil rices continue going down -- prices continue going down, i know you've been very critical of the administration, but this could be a gift, right? >> yes, neil, good afternoon. i think, to take your point, the drop in oil prices are going

after the financing of isis and their elements of power is key. it also illustrates, i think, that defeating isis is not just critical militarily or even politically, but financially as well. and that we need to be going after all sources of their power, and particularly in the financial realm as well. and, certainly, going after their elements of financial shores that they have, it's important to go after their oil, it goes after the slave trade, it goes after the ransom. all those things add up in terms of trying to defeat them across the board, and economically is certainly important in that vane. neil: you know what you worry about, general, they've already got a lot of money when oil prices were higher, but we're told they're bleeding through it fast. we're going to get into this, the fact they got their hands on chemical weapons, that didn't come cheap. it's not as though they came upon a syrian cache of weapons.

but if they are running low on cash, how would we see it? fewer attacks, cruder attacks, what? >> i think you see anytime a couple ways. one, you'll probably see their operations tempo in certain areas decline. isis is going after a caliphate, they're going after a territory. they're in iraq, syria and other nations as well. you may see that reduce in terms of their footprint, also in terms of their ability to actually recruit, you know, their terrorists. and so that could be borne out on the battlefield not only for the short term, but for the long term as well. and then there's this issue of their credibility, their ability to go out and buy arms as well as trade arms and so forth could also be at stake. so the economic or the financial aspect of this is just as important at this key point in time as it is militarily as well for us to continue, you know, try to defeat them. neil: all right, general, thank you very, very much. good having you, some figures i

just want to throw out for folks at home, the argument has always been much of isis' money comes from oil, but about nine out of the ten dollars they use come via oil, energy or related contracts, money in the black market. but it's all oil derivative. and that has gone down precipitously in price, and if the trend continues, they themselves were buying through third party groups oil at much higher levels. so there's the tantalizing possibility that isis is wrong this market. that's a separate argument. we do know that it it has not of late hurt their fact that they got their hands on some chemical weapons. former navy deputy undersecretary seth grassi on that, and this opens up a whole new area, doesn't snit they are getting their hands on these chemical weapons, presumely from

syria, right? >> syria's one possibility, iraq is another. neil: how seriously do you take that they have a lot of this stuff? >> i don't think it's clear yet. but the real danger here is that it's clear that isis will do anything, absolutely anything. and if they'll use mustard or gas -- which as chemical weapons go is a relatively mild agent, takes a lot to kill people -- then we have to start thinking about things like it's the possible use of chemical weapons in the united states. remember the attacks in the tokyo subway 20 years ago -- neil: that was sarin gas, right? >> that was sarin gas, home grown stuff, and much more deadly than mustard gas. that's the kind of thing we need to be thinking about here. if they're deprived of resources, they may choose not to expand their operations, but

rather to restrict or confine them, but concentrate them. sarin gas is an obvious. neil: now, you know, you mentioned just how they got their hands on it, we don't know the degree to where they got it, how much, but much of it we're told -- and your contacts are certainly more reliable than ours -- from positions in syria. and so is whatever weapons assad and others had, they just simply took over. so they have this large cache of all sorts of chemical weapons, mustard gas just among them. do you buy that? >> well, both syrians -- mustard gas can be found in both syria and iraq. syria's a possibility. so is iraq. neil: now, where would they have come from from iraq? the old days of saddam hussein and gassing his own people? >> sure, absolutely. neil: is that it? >> absolutely. our policy has been to, the administration policy is to help the iraqi government.

the iraqi government is mostly a shiite enterprise. for right now what that means is it's driving saddam's old people, former people and sunnis into the hands of isis. and that could very well be the source of the supply for this. neil: all right -- >> it's very bad, and i think the administration's response to it has been weak. neil: yeah. well, they've got some bad stuff, to your point. secretary, thank you very, very much. now back to here and the fallout of these oil prices translating into lower gas prices, you are seeing it at the pump. there's a lag effect, but some are saying it could lead to sub-$2 gasoline and not that far off. a number of southern states, tennessee and south carolina, they are experiencing that already. ty young says the flipside of that is that lawmakers are eyeing these much lower prices and thinking they can slip in higher gas taxes and the like, and you won't even notice. ty, how real is that? to -- twenty states have tried

it, done it, and now there's a move afoot to apply this to everybody via a new hike in the federal gas tax. >> it's something, certainly, lawmakers want to do. politicians love to raise taxes if they can, but even when oil prices go up, they should take those taxes back out, but they never do. the federal gas tax right now is 18.4 cents. it was installed in 1932, it's been raised ten times, and it has never been lowered. at the state level, the average tax is about 48 cents a gallon. and interestingly, the state, local and federal government make more off a gallon of gas than the oil companies do. neil, of course, we need infrastructure repair, we need infrastructure built, but we have the revenue to do that, and i think reagan said it best. he said we don't have a revenue rob, we have a spending problem when it comes to this gas tax money. neil: a lot of people say, you know, we do have these dilapidated roads and bridges, i readily agree, but if you add up

state gas taxes, fees, tolls, etc., everything that is geared and earmarked -- no pun intended -- for this sort of thing, it's over $100 billion. where is that money going before we pile more on? nevertheless, i think now the wind at a lot of these legislators back, they could sneak it in. they keep declining, you won't even notice. and i suspect that's what they're doing. >> well, neil, that's exactly what they're doing, and they feel like they need more money. and here's the thing, we already have plenty of money coming in from the gas tax to fix our infrastructure, we just need to allocate it properly. neil: we do know it's not going to infrastructure. that has long been, you know, taken out of that lockbox with like so many other things, right? >> well, there's no question about it. one thing we could do is remove the mandates from these states. for every dollar that comes from the federal government for highways, there's mandates, and these states spend 50, 60 cents on each dollar in some cases to comply with the mandates, do

studies on how electric b cars might drive on these roads and other ridiculous studies making it very, very expensive. if we just removed those mandates, we could fix more infrastructure and build a whole lot more infrastructure with the same money coming in currently, it's just a matter of not wasting the money that we have. neil: ty young. guys, if we could take a look at what's going on with oil prices right now, they were this and out of this $42, $43 level. despite what happens today, and it would be a minor movement, we are still down about 4% on the week, and we have seen the prices hacked to levels we have not seen since barack obama first became president. this is as much a reflection on the slowdown globally, because you're seeing it affect a firm of -- a number of markets that have hinted of worse times to come, but it's affected all types of oil. today notwithstanding, this idea that prices are sliding. and by the way, if that iran deal goes through, you're going to get another two million barrels of oil added to the world's supply that's considered

glutted for the time being, and you know how that goes: more supply, so/so demand, prices go down. all right, what is your right morally, religiously, ethically versus what the government says? a lot of you might remember that indiana pizza owner who refused serve this? you and your dad have nothing against gays, on religious grounds you just said you couldn't cater a gay wedding, do i have the gist of that right? >> right. they are welcome in the store, anyone is welcome in the store, but it's against our belief to condone, to cater to their wedding. we're condoning that if we do that, and that is against our religion. neil: you ever wonder if a gay couple took her to court, what would happen? i want you to think of another baker who experienced that firsthand and is here to tell us what did. after this. ♪

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neil: well, the makeers of candy crush getting crushed after reporting profits that fell way short of estimates. in fact, the 28% quarterly profit, monthly unique visitors, you need those to keep playing these stupid games. all of you, get a life, be with your kids, talk to your family, and for god sakes, get off your ipad. [laughter] anyway, that's the problem there, and they overstated that, they overcertain sized that and thought -- overemphasized that, and it's not happening to the degree that they thought, and they're getting crushed. i warned you, but you didn't listen. and you didn't listen to this young lady when she was putting

out warning signs on apple, now apparently just delaying this new tv service, apple tv. >> i know. neil: what are they doing? >> get worse this quarter, apple. the it's just one bad announcement after the next one. as far as what's going on, you've got to ask your parent company and the other -- neil: and cbs. big entertainment companies, they're not coming along to sign up for apple tv. >> they're not coming along, you just miss steve jobs' negotiating might -- neil: well, he would bang them over the head. >> when he was negotiating itunes, he barraged them with scientists, ph.d.s that he'd hired that basically looked at the files the music industry was trying to sell, and he said my entire team says there's no way you're going to be able to secure file, so you were betterr people this better option.

neil: to your point, you know, there are other venues. there are roku, hulu. but i'm just wondering if a lot of these companies, these content providers are saying, you know, it's just not worth it with you, why should we just sign up with you? >> i think it's a price point negotiation. he's looking to get down to $40 a month for the bundled services, maybe it ends up evening out at 45. the 99 cents price for the itunes was largely arbitrary -- neil: but isn't apple late in this business anyway? >> yes. neil: seriously considering doing a billion tv? >> -- the physical tv? >> the fact that hbo is now on chromecast is a big problem. neil: wouldn't it make them rethink the tv stuff -- >> they need it. neil: -- other tvs offer you all of these services when you load up the screen. >> i think the problem is they need the revenue. it's about a billion dollars in revenue a year for them. they need to be growing, you know, regardless of the positivity --

neil: how are they doing now with the apple tv service that they have, these little -- >> the it's a parody service. it's a very good -- neil: what does that mean? >> it's equal to chromecast. they don't really have a competitive advantage over the other service, and that's a problem because they used to. neil: all right. this is one thing that will not be announced at the september 9th thing, we know that for sure. >> supposedly the new phone that people are slightly underwhelmed about, and hopefully there'll be some new app announcements for the watch. hopefully now developers have had enough time to do something meaningful and interesting that will actually better people's lives finish. neil: they come up with new app announcements and an s version of the 6, i guess. boring. >> i know. it's not a quarter that most investors are looking forward to. neil: so when they do that, oh, just one more thing, they don't i have have any more one more thing. >> let's hope they do. they have surprised in the past. it's largely, obviously, been under steve jobs' leadership, but let's hope there's some sort

of surprise. neil: is it too soon to say the watch is a failure? anytime you sell millions of anything, by any company's definition, that's incredible. >> i think we can declare the $17,000 watch was an an abysmal public failure. neil: what about the early talk they were going to send 10, 20 million of these? >> i don't think we can call all the watches a failure, their march into the territory was an embarrassment, but i don't think we can say that about base watch yet. i think we should let the verdict still be out. see if people can invent something meaningful -- neil: do these late galaxy phones from samsung offer any threat to apple? >> apple has a lock on their user base for a whole host of reasons, some of them hardware, some of them software, some of them brand loyalty. i think for the myriad reasons they have protecting them, it's still a meaningful difference. neil: so you're being patient

and understanding with this company. >> with the biggest company in the world, yeah. [laughter] neil: thank you very much. in the meantime, carly calls out all women on this war on women. did you see this? finish. ♪ ♪ ♪ at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping.

>> war on women, i don't know, i'ma woman, i haven't felt that war on women. and yet when you look at women in general, the progressive policies haven't done that much for them. >> well, in fact, progressive policies have failed women just as they have failed the african-american community. i mean, just to put the facts on it, african-american youth unemployment, for example, is worse now under obama. more women have fallen into poverty under president obama. we have record numbers of americans on food 1256r7s, record numbers of americans who cannot find the jobs they want. progressive policies are failing. neil: so i think what carly fee a' north korea that is saying is it's the democrats who have unleashed this war on women by ignoring their real concerns.

we have some great people with us on this issue, christy setser, we have dagen mcdowell as well. what do you think of what she's saying? >> i'm actually going to surprise you. she talks about the status quo. i agree with a lot of what she says, about you grow the economy, you improve business, you improve, basically, the outlook for women. but this terms of the status -- in terms of the status quo, she has come out against mandatory paid maternity leave at the federal level which the united states doesn't have, and it's a big liberal issue, many democrats pushing for it. she's against it. i think that she's off base and kind of off tone in saying that. i don't think you can cite netflix and say netflix is offering a whole year of paid parental he'll as an example of -- leave as an example of what private industry does. do not point to the technology world. very competitive, very strong job market. but that does not represent the whole of the united states. neil: what she, obviously, is

trying to say, christy, is there are limit toss what the government should demand, companies who want to attract and keep workers will decide that. and to dagen's point, it's the technology companies that are the most generous with this sort of stuff because they can afford to be. should carly fiorina be attuned more to that? >> of course she should, and she could though that as well as anybody, because when she was the head of hp, they had a generous maternity and paternity leave policy. why? because she said they knew that's how they could attract the best workers. neil: but they didn't. hp was imploding under her watch, right? >> there are loss of reasons why they -- neil: absolutely, but that is not among the reasons you would have limited the implosion, would it? >> i don't know. that is not one of the reasons i would pinpoint, their generous leave policy, to that. the point is i think all women in america should have this. i don't think, however, that carly fiorina is wrong about some of the problems she points to.

look, i mean, it's true that a majority of women, a majority of people who live in poverty are women or who hold minimum wage jobs are women. the problem that i have is that she doesn't seem to have solutions for these things. she just says liberals are wrong, and nothing else. >> i will say this, here's one solution because we talk about the technology industry. technology industry has very, very generous parental he'll policies. however, women are underrepresented at these companies. item cook at apple talking about that very thing, hiring more minorities, more women. but the attitude within these liberal bastions, these technology giants, is very anti-woman in many instances. and i know this only anecdotally, but there's still that attitude among women in this country where women are not good in math and science. that starts in public education system. that still exists today. i've seen it with my own family. and you definitely feel that and see that within these technology companies. neil: wait a minute, does your family not like you?

[laughter] >> no. >> and by the way, why not -- i'm going to self-edit, because i'm going to say something that's going to get me in trouble. we focus on having children in this country and rewarding mothers while we also need to reward the people who choose not to have children in this country, who stay on the job -- neil: that's a very good point. one of the things that stood out from some of her remarks, she said for a lot of women in the country the status quo means to earn enough for your family while spending less and less time with them. so that paradox that women have that want to have it all, be good moms, bring home the bacon, and that's a herculean task that the to us in is put on the -- onus is put on the woman and not the man. what do you think? >> i absolutely agree. i totally agree with how she's outlined the problem, i just disagree with the solution. the problem in america is that we're asking women to, you know, to have children not for nothing to keep civilization going, but

we're not proproviding any fan -- providing any financial support. when we're asking them to do that, look, women know the penalties they're going to pay when they come back on the job. they know they're probably not going to be able to be promoted as quickly anymore, there's going to be sort of a motherhood penalty in addition to the financial penalties. and these are things that, you know, only of them i think -- some of them i think we can address through policies both in the workplace -- >> i'll argue with you, though, that the government does provide generous tax benefits for having children in this country. >> sure. >> we do have the 12-week family medical leave act, though it's unpaid leave. >> absolutely. >> i think i the biggest thing carly fiorina is doing is talking about this, because so much of it is telling women men are four times more likely to ask for a raise, and when a woman always does, she asks for less. talk about that, say it. women need to man up, so to speak, in terms of representing themselves in the workplace, neil. neil: you're not getting a

raise. [laughter] all right, when we come back -- >> kidding. [laughter] >> i just scared you no, which i enjoy. neil: by the way, this would not be the first time for that. [laughter] when we come back, a baker who got shot down over his religious beliefs. he would not make a cake for a gay couple. the gay couple sued, he lost. he's here. ♪ ♪ ica are rural farmers. 96% of them are doing rain-fed agriculture. they're all competing with each other; they're all making very low margins, making enough to survive, but not enough to get out of poverty. so kickstart designs low cost irrigation pumps enabling them to grow high value crops throughout the year so you can make a lot of money. it's all very well to have a whole lot of small innovations, but unless we can scale it up enough to where we are talking about millions of farmers, we're not going to solve their biggest challenge. this is precisely where the kind of finance that citi is giving us, is enabling us to scale up on a much more rapid pace.

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neil:

all right, jack phillips is a baker. he bakes cakes. he's a very good baker. not only cakes, cookies, you name it. so i don't know why i have not visit ised his shop, but i will. he is approached by a gay couple, and they want him to make a cake for their wedding. jack said he couldn't do that. rather than me elaborate on that, we've got jack phillips here, we've got his attorney here as well. pick up from there, jack. the gay couple comes in, a male couple? >> yeah, a male couple, david and charlie. neil: okay. >> they came in, it was a beautiful, sunny afternoon in the summertime three years ago, and they sat down at the desk. one of my daughters was working behind the counter, she was busy, so she anticipated if i would go over and -- indicated if i would go over and sit with these guys. they said, we're here to look at wedding cakes, and the other one said, it's for our wedding. neil: they said that specifically, it's for our wedding. >> our wedding. i said, sorry, guys, i don't do

cakes for same-sex weddings. what? i'll sell you cookies, brownies, birthday cakes, i just don't do cakes for same-we can edings -- weddings. >> one of them stomped out one door, the other out the other, flipped me off and swore at me. twenty minutes later i get a phone call. i said i turned away a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding, so they swore at me. and then the phone rang again. normally it'd be my daughter's job to answer the phone, but she was still busy with other customers, so i answered the phone and picked up, you know, these really rude, vile phone calls -- neil: so not all originally from this couple, but other people they had told. >> apparently, they had alerted their friends -- neil: did they hurt your business, don't go to this guy's shop? >> they did. it didn't have much of an effect -- neil: until they sued. >> until they sued and we lost in colorado -- neil: in this case, chris, what

did the court rule here, that he had to serve gay couples? be specific. >> yes. the court ruled that if he provides any wedding services to any heterosexual couple, that he must provide that same service to same-sex couples even though he's gladly served gays and lesbians for many years in his shop. it's just a singular event that he has a religious conviction about, and that's that marriage is between a man and a woman. neil: we have the law now, the supreme court says, you know, gay marriage is the law in all 50 states. you're the lawyer here. is he in hot water on that basis alone? >> no, i don't think he is. we do have a decision by five justices that have attempted to redefine marriage, but the first amendment protection is still there for people like jack. and it's really to serve all of our interests. this kind of government coercion, regardless of what you think about marriage, should terrify all of us, that the government can compel someone to violate their convictions and to

engage in speech to promote a message -- neil: what if a mixed-race couple came in? i will raise this with him. they wanted a cake for their -- now, there used to be a time in this country where people were morally, religiously opposed to that. and in a day, i'm sure, there were bakers who said, no, i won't, i won't serve at such a wedding what's the difference? >> well, i would say that the history there is a little bit different if you go back and look at what actually happened. we had an insidious system of exploitation of african-americans, and i would say that -- neil: gays argue it's been an insidious system of exploitation -- >> which is exactly the bullying method they try to use against people to shut them up. it's an intellectually bankrupt analogy. neil: you're both appealing. >> correct. neil: and where does that stand? >> we have to file the papers with the court within the next few weeks, and the colorado supreme court will make their decision whether they hear the case or not. neil: when you heard the supreme court ruled, and to your

lawyer's point the 5-4 decision in favor of gay marriage, as an apparently deeply religious man, how did you feel? >> i was disappointed, but it's still -- it's a different decision than what my case is. my case is the government is trying to force me to violate my personal religious freedom. and, you know, create a cake, create a cake for a ceremony that i have objections to. neil: now, in the meantime, let's say you lose this case on appeal, and what they're saying is someone comes in, a heterosexual come, homosexual couple, you have to provide for them. no difference. what do you do? >> there is no difference. i treat all my customers the same. i've been doing this for -- neil: no, i understand that. but you won't make a cake for a gay wedding. >> correct. neil: you will for a heterosexual one. >> right now we're not. we're not making any wedding cakes. that's taken a big chunk of my business away -- neil: really? have you been fined any financial amount? >> not yet --

neil: i'm sorry, is this couple suing you? >> the -- neil: monetarily? >> no, not monetarily. >> they are not seeking monetary damage in the current process that we're going through, but i would also point out there's a bakery case that's also before the same commission, and a christian man came in, a customer, and asked a colorado baker to, please, do a cake that would express a religious opposition to same-sex marriage. the same commission that ruled against jack ruled for the baker in that instance. neil: is that right? >> yes. and yet that same commission compared jack's religious beliefs to being perpetrators of the holocaust. that is very disturbing. neil: you know, jack, this is heinous of me to say so, i apologize for my question. not one i would ask. if you had not said why you couldn't make a cake for a gay wedding and just said, no, we're not doing cakes right now, i'm inundated, you could have gotten away with it. >> i could have, but that would be a lie. and as a christian, the bible teaches not to lie, you know,

and honor my lord and savior, jesus christ. neil: do you have gay friends? >> i do. neil: when they heard all the hull baa -- hullabaloo over what you did, what thid did they tell you? >> unof them apologized -- one of them apologized, we understand this is where you come from. neil: so when you hear all the nasty things that have been said about you, phone threats and everything else, and you've been portrayed as this religious freak who's, you know, all but a racist, how does that make you feel? >> there are comments by people who don't know me, who haven't taken the time to come into my shop and get to know to me. they're just making an assumption that that's what i am. but that's still beside the point. what this case is about is as an american citizen, i do have first amendment rights to practice my religious -- neil: what has your daughter told you? i mean, she should have taken the couple --

>> no, she's right behind me. neil: yeah? >> we don't have a written policy, but my daughter's a strong christian also, and she knows where we stand on it. so -- neil: where do you think this goes? >> i think, ultimately, we're seeing cases across the nation. one of them will go to the court, and i think america should pay attention, because civil liberties travel together. whether you're religious or not to, if religious freedom goes, economic freedom is impacted, freedom of the press is impacted. this is an issue that we all need to stand and defend, and it's one of the hallmarks of our constitution that's at stake. neil: amazing case. you're a pretty amazing guy, standing your ground. we'll follow this case closely. more after this.

neil: all right. this has been a great week if you're looking to why a home or re-- buy a home or refinance. interest rates sliding especially early in the week. many argue it's going to translate into lower housing mortgages. this one is pegged to a lot of them, the ten-year note now

sliding to 2.18%, many argue that's going to keep 30-year fixed rate mortgages at least for a while under 4%, maybe well under 4%. obviously, we know what the federal reserve is up to, pretty soon it's going to start raising interest rates. david electricken says -- your prospects of getting a home, don't count on it. we should also posit as we're ironing our details getting david that the delay in this latest fha data we got, the rate at about 3.95% for a 30-year fixed rate mortgages, that a delayed rate. it does not include some of these latest swings and a lot of swings down in yield which could translate, by the way, to rates probably in the 3.75-3.8% neck of the woods. david, i think we have you now, is it your view that even if they do tick up, it won't be the

end of the world? >> it won't be the end of the world as it relates to housing values. again, we look at the housing market, it's still a great, probably the bright spot in the overall economy. but it will not have an impact on values. what it will have an impact is loan volumes, loan values, home sales, all of the things regarding the number of units going through the system. but values are actually going to continue to go up because of the inventory issues, neil. neil: all right. so if the values go up, doesn't that ultimately require people to buy or people in those communities to demand to grow as well? >> well, yes. no question that interest rates are going to have an impact on things. the biggest issue we're having this a lot of these communities is just product for people to buy. interest rates are going to tick up. if you listen to what dennis lockhart said last week, how he is voting for and there seems like others that have support for increasing the fed funds rate, that's absolutely going to bring, most likely bring the

mortgage rate back up -- neil: we should explain, he is the vice chair of the federal reserve, right? he was a dove and now he's a hawk on this or at least more inclined to raise interest rates. so you think that's a given. >> that's right. neil: but as far as i understand, that doesn't necessarily mean market rates have to back up prohibitively, right? >> no, no. a lot of it's baked in here. already we have already this the current ricing an -- in the current pricing an assumption that the fed's rates are going to be rising. but we will see interest rates go up higher, to 4%, if the feds follow through with that. now, if you look at the overall economic data that's coming in, what's going to trump that, could potentially trump that, is continued weak economic data. so here's the fed's dilemma that they have, neil: do we really risk one of the most vibrant parts of our economy, the housing market, and increase interest rates of fed funds rate, and as goes that, so go mortgage rates, and potentially put a damper on the home sales?

again, it will not impact for those that are investing in the housing market, should not have an impact on them because of the inventory. neil: right. >> we see foreclosures down to the lowest level aressing since august -- levels since august of 2008. that's going to keep interest values high. neil: i'd like to see my home value to double and just get soaring again. i always see these measly increased, and it depends, i know, on the market you're in. but a lot of people are still waiting for that to hit them this a lot of -- in a lot of the parts of this country. i'm still waiting. you're saying it's happening, it's gonna happen. >> well, it's gonna happen, it's gonna continue. are you talking about the interest rate uptick? yes. neil: no, i'm talking about the value of the home itself, because mine is now like a wendy's drive-thru for the time being. [laughter] but it could change. >> the reality is home values are going to continue to tick up. you look at, you know, home foreclosures are down, and it's because serious delinquencies

are down. that's not feeding the system, so we're going to continue to see -- now, here's what's really interesting, neil, a lot of people want to see double-digit housing prices. that's not going to help the millennials -- neil: i don't care about the millennials, i care about me. it's always about me. [laughter] well put and well staid, my friend. i always appreciate your expertise. >> good to be with you. neil: all right, speaking of millennials, i'm not very forgiving when it comes to these young whippersnappers. i have forgiven ralph, i have rehired ralph, but many of you -- particularly some very bitter boomers -- are wounderring why i did. after this.

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business, but i'll give you a perfect example. if he doesn't get what he wants from john boehner, he can't fire him. he can't say, mr. speaker, you're fired. you've got to learn to work. neil: all right, governor christie. i don't think you're the one to be giving temperament advice. just saying, just like i shouldn't offer dietary advice to people. you just don't go there. those who live in glass bakeries shouldn't be throwing cannolis, but that's just me. [laughter] look, you're running for president, i'm not. i just thought it was odd. and does it reinforce a notion among some bitter boomers that they don't practice what they preach? look who's here with me right now, randy dylan, my buddy here, you know, the man, brady. we just call him the b. meister, that's stephen loeb, lizzie macdonald. iran dix really? this advice? >> it would be so nice to just be consistent and be honest and not, depending on who's talking to you and where you are.

because, you know what? there's nothing wrong with being passionate, with having a temper, there's nothing wrong with being a human. what is this not being presidential? what exactly does that mean? neil: that's what he's saying, that trump wouldn't be a good president -- >> his temper. >> we're so used to politicians who just utter mindless platitudes and don't do anything, and these are two guys who aren't afraid to speak what's on their minds -- neil: both christie and trump. so they should be on the same page and not lecturing each other. >> they're also competing, too -- neil: gotcha. >> i don't think trump would be a good president. i think christie makes an excellent point. you can't fire boehner, and you can't have some guy shouting about women, etc., like he does. neil: by the way, by the way, the way he treated boehner and, you know, the whole release of funds and calling him out on it and ripping him a new one, is that what a president does? >> yeah. >> well, maybe that wouldn't be so bad. but don't throw out the baby

with the bathwater. a lot of people can't stand trump. he's not that successful as a businessman -- neil: all i'm pointing out, you have to be in a consistent message, right? >> yeah. i like how many christie says, you know, he doesn't have the temperament because he's saying, oh, you can't run around firing people. christie's running around telling people to sit down and shut up all the time, so isn't that the same side of the coin? neil: mix it up here, do you use blunt language, tough language? do you? >> absolutely. neil: why am i not surprised? >> actually, neil, i usually curb my speech when i know you're around. neil: i don't see it. you're very demeaning to the staff. they hate you. >> thank you. neil: no, they actually love charlie r. >> that's right. >> i don't use profanity, but i will use bad words. vulgar words -- neil: you just get crazy. >> i just won't use profanity. neil: i like that, i like that. >> getting back to christie s that what we're talking about --

neil: whoa. >> do you use profanity? >> no. [laughter] neil:ing bitter boomer here. >> i'm not a bitter boomer, i just like to happening out with the boomers, full disclosure here. neil: prune juice discounts. [laughter] >> exactly. you know, here's the thing, do either of them, do you want either of them picking up that 3:00 in the morning phone call? do you feel safe with either of them? no. neil: how many presidents are really called at 2:00 in the morning? >> i think all of them. >> neil, the thing with trump, i mean, a lot of people dislike him intensely, but he makes a very, very important point. he goes way too far, but political correctness is -- neil: right. comport yourself a certain way. >> it's a catastrophe for this country. and at least he makes that point, and none of the others have the guts to do it. even though -- neil: does it take guts or does it take crazy? >> what's that? >> there's probably a fine line, but what he has done, he's gotten us all talking about politics. people who were so is i don't want to be bothered, i don't

care, nothing's going to happen, everybody talks about politics and the presidential race -- neil: you're right. >> and it's cool. neil: you know, i want to bring in, there was a little tiff back and forth with my very young millennial producer, ralph, and i wanted to fire him because he was annoying me because he was second guessing me and correcting me on really tiny little issues on the air. so i gave him, you know, i treated him roughly, and i forgave him, and he's back. and i'm already regretting that decision. [laughter] do you think we should be rough on millennials? we should really -- like charlie gasparino, get in their face? >> yeah, i think it's fine to be rough on millennials. neil: would you have fired ralph? >> probably not. neil: would you have fired -- >> no. neil: really? >> i wouldn't fire anybody unless i thought they were bad people. neil: brady, you would have fired him. and shot him. >> no, i think i would have just given him a good yelling at. >> you sound like a bitter boomer. neil: well, i am.

>> lead by example. it all goes back to who is doing the teaching. we need to teach -- neil: he thinks he is. i told him i am. >> we need to teach this generation the way to do things. neil: all right, all right, all right! ralph, you're on notice. ♪

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neil: all right. arizona governor susanne martinez is addressing this river sludge spill that has now made it even worse than it was. we're told right thousand that the overall damage to the affected area has spun to more than 600 square miles. the epa chief has just said that the river, though, is restoring itself, the animas river, despite the fact this seems to be extending itself. we were looking at all the epa statements on this matter, what the epa's officially said, and almost while it does acknowledge that epa contractors were responsible for it, always saying epa contractors or

contractors working for the epa, it always adds that the epa was responding to all the closed minds that pepper much of the southwest and western landscape and that this was a problem it all but inherited. we have the gold king mine owner in question here, todd hennis, what do you make of the fact that the epa, though taking responsibility, has said this is not technically our doing. we're the clean-up guys who screwed up cleaning up. i think that's the gist of it. >> neil, this is a story of major regulatory failure over many, many years. it is a story of a rogue major mining company that refuses to live up to its 21st century responsibilities. we also have is a far larger problem for the downstream water users than the gold king issue. neil: well, wouldn't it come back to you? i know the mine that you're referring to is the sunny side mine, i believe a canadian concern that was fast and loose with this stuff. you would argue this was really

kind of their doing in the order of events, but do you think that the contractors who worked for the epa to clean this up bear any responsibility here? >> the site crew who i met with wednesday on the site actually had no reason to know that this could happen. neil: how would they not know that? i mean, this is their job. this is what they do. >> the site indications had no major water flow coming out. again, ken ross gold's neighboring mine, the sunny side mine, is filled with billions and billions of gallons of water. the mine has concrete plugs in it. if those plugs ever break like the blowout at the gold king, the downstream people will have months and months of flows like this. that's the real problem here, neil. neil: all right, you -- i understand. you told cn, in the the other day, i hope i have this right, i've been predicting for the

last 14 year that is the situation would continue getting worse and worse. this was before this spill last week. i foresaw a disaster, and that has been borne out. who did you talk to at the epa, and what did they say when you gave these constant entreaties, these warnings? >> since 2001 i have been popping the drum to raise awareness on this problem and to get the state and the epa -- neil: what problem? i'm sorry, what problem were you seeing happening? >> the neighboring mine had impounded all of this water like a rising bathtub. it reached the rim and flowed out the neighboring properties. the epa in 2002 was asked to join my lawsuit against sunny side gold corporation. they not only refused, they threatennenned me. neil: all right. so when i hear, when the sunny side people come back and say this is really like, you know, a vendetta you have against them, what do you say? >> the epa, the state of colorado and ken ross gold

corporation have to acknowledge that the bulkheading or closing of the sunny side mine is a failure. they need to drain down the sunny side mine, treat the water. these discharges will go away, and the downstream users won't be faced with -- neil: all right. you're far smarter than i, todd. i didn't understand that, but here's what i do understand, this is a bad situation not apparently getting better, and you fear we're going to see more of this, and there are a lot of these abandoned mines there. so me thinks that we could have worse problems down the road, right? >> we can definitely have worse problems down the road, neil. but this sunny side mine is the largest danger in the whole state of colorado. neil: how many of these mines do they control? >> they control probably about a thousand acres. they're the adjoining properties that are all discharging water at this point. and we were made aware of a new mine that was tripling its flow in a new area --

neil: in other words, a precursor to the same type of thing that happened here, right? >> absolutely. yes. neil: and the epa -- okay, the epa has already said it's going to make good on this and pay all damaged parties. but -- >> epa -- neil: you argue this is going to get pretty pricey, right? >> ken ross gold corporation needs to step up to the plate and be proactive on this problem, drawn the sunny side mine -- drain the sunny side mine, treat the water. it's that simple, neil. neil: but we're beyond that stage now, right? >> the gold king, yes. neil: yeah. >> to avoid a larger disaster in the future, ken ross gold needs to step up to the plate. neil: all right, we'll watch it. competing parties here. just want to bring you up-to-date with the gold king mine own or in this particular case, but i do want to tell you there are hundreds of these abandoned mines, and some of them controlled by just a handful, half a handful of major

is players, some of whom have been fast and loose on some of these environmental rules. suffice it to say that environmentalist harold goob thinks the epa did drop the ball on this, and thousand i've got to wonder -- now i've got to wonder, howard, do you look at it the same way, that the contractors screw up, it's the epa's problem? >> yeah. i mean, if the epa hires somebody to do a job and that contractor screws up, it's the epa's responsibility. now, as todd mentioned, there could be some responsibility also with the mine owner if they were not following the regulations. neil: right. >> but the fact is, you know, look, if you hire a cleaning company to come clean your house and they contract out somebody that breaks something, it's the cleaning company's responsibility. so the epa is responsible. i mean, look, if they want to be a governing body for the environment -- which i agree that there should be one, and in most cases agree with the e be, a -- but if they're at fault

here, they need to take responsibility 100%. as well as the mine owner. neil: no, i hear you. you know what's weird as i was researching this, howard? these contractors are the same ones who were involved in some of the efforts after the bp spill. and they've been involved in a number of environmental -- even back down to 9/11 and the lower manhattan sites and how dangerous they were. so when it was bp and that spill and before that exxon valdez and that spill, everyone was jumping all over those private company concerns, as they should, as they should. but not nearly the same amount of gravity with this one until very late. and i'm just wondering, do you think that is fair, or are some just trying to give the epa a pass? >> no. i, you know, i agree with you. i mean, look, i was very

involved with, you know, talking on air about the bp oil spill, and everybody was quick to point out that this was bp's responsibility. if, indeed, the epa did make this mistake which which as todd just said it's unclear whether or not they would even know what was in that mine when they opened it, so -- but if it turns out that they are responsible, they're liable. and they need -- neil: but don't you think that environmental restoration, this company that was contracted out by the epa to deal with this mess, was very involved in a lot of the follow up after the bp oil spill in the gulf. they screwed up a lot back then, we're told. that didn't get attention. and i'm wondering, that's weird right there, right? >> i agree with you too. neil: contractors who worked for the epa back then are the same folks who are responsible for this now? >> i agree. that's another case where the epa has to be responsible. look, if they're hiring

contractors that have a storied past, they're responsible for that too. neil: but it's weird, right, howard, in the end, we're going to be suing -- when people sue, they're going to be suing taxpayerings. you're seeing a government agency which means you're suing us, and it's taxpayers who are going to foot the bill. >> yeah, i understand that. but the fact is, okay, in the event that there wasn't an epa, if something hike this happened -- like this happened, who are you going to sue? some small environmental restoration company -- neil: no, no, you sue who's responsible. but it is weird. howard, thank you very much. >> now -- neil: finish that thought. >> sure. oh, i was just going to say, you know, they have to have these contractors out there because, you know, you're talking about hundreds -- there's almost 500,000 possible mine sites with, you know, 50 million tons of toxic chemicals behind them. so the epa is certainly not able to cover it without using outside contractors. but they need to make sure that -- neil: that they're up to the

task. >> yeah. neil: howard, thank you very much. i always enjoy having you. >> thanks, neil. neil: speaking of the environment and what's going on right now, you would think these fuel-efficient vehicles would be all the rage. well, maybe not. because, actually, the major carmakers, including gm, boosting truck production. a lot of that because even though they're gas guzzlers, with gas prices so low, it's not a big shock they're sell ising like hotcakes which is a tired old expression. if you were using hotcakes to fill your car, but you get my point. chris horner says you can't force people to go green, and they're not doing that, and the only way they will, i guess, is when gas prices go up, right? >> right. first of all, the government can make manufacturers make certain kinds of vehicles, they can't compel you to buy them. they can coerce you through limiting your choices and making what you want much more expensive or unaffordable, but now we see despite the president telling us in january it would be a mistake to buy an suv, people are going to -- remember, the president said he felt

behind enemy lines working for a private employer? that's how i believe they feel when they deal with the market. people will buy what they want when they view they can afford it. in this case it is, yet again, larger, safer, more comfortable vehiclings. so this is -- so long as oil prices stay where they are and not where we need to remember what candidate obama said he wants to bring them, up to europe's levels. so $5, $7 a gallon. unless they go there, people are going to continue buying larger, safer, more comfortable vehicles, and the administration is constantly trying to find a way to defeat that. neil: all right. so all of these plug-in vehicles all the way with up to tesla, they're going to have a tough time in this environment. last time i remember even when gas prices were higher, you know, those vehicles weren't exactly selling like crazy. in fact, there was still a steady stream of suvs and the like that were still going at gas close to double these prices. >> right. it's hard to substantially harm sales of something the administration has said quite

openly they don't want us to buy. the price of these vehicles or their market cap of companies that focus on them is, it's a present discount of expected future subsidies. people expect electric will be the future, but for the present they just don't meet people's needs. and very few people are choosing between an suv and a tesla. they're -- they want useful vehicles that move people and move things safely and comfortably, and that's what they're going to continue to want, and that's what satisfies their needs. so the state's going to have to become more innovative to keep people out of what they want. neil: chris horner, thank you very much. well, you have probably seen on the political landscape today that it is not business as usual, and the candidates who are appealing are not your typical politicians. long before any of them emerged to declare, lou dobbs was tapping this nerve and sensing the frustration on left and the right. where does it go now? lou is next.

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neil: all right. the donald trump there, you got ben or carson, all of these outside the prix try dish candidates who are descending on iowa this weekend for the state fair. i'd go for the food. pork chop on a stick. i don't know how they get that going. but they do. and it's, you know, attracting an eclectic crowd. lou dobbs was on this eclectic crowd i think before a lot of folks when it came to illegal immigration, the palpable rage that a lot of americans felt. thousand it's evident in all these different candidates. what do you think? >> well, i think as we now know very well, donald trump has tapped into that frustration with the political system that is telling the middle class to go to hell, that working men and women are expendable, that corporate america, u.s.

multi-nationals -- about 136of them in particular who make up the business round table -- frankly, are looking for the cheapest possible labor and trying to dress it up as being globally competitive. it's pure nonsense, and donald trump and other candidates, to be fair, are now talking about the middle class. i talked with governor scott walker. he's focusing like a laser on working people, and i think that's, certainly, to his benefit. neil: he's more conventional in his approach. trump shouts it. >> well, unconventional, you know, he's very -- he's reserved. he's polite. trump does not see political correctness or politeness as a he'sty to exrest a thought -- a necessity to express a thought. one of the things i truly believe is that donald trump may be sounding the death knell for political correctness in the national media and in american politics. neil: they don't know what to think of him. >> the response is laughable on the part of so many. they want to say, well, donald

trump is a bad person. he's not. they want to say that he is being ignorant. he is being inartful sometimes in his language, and what the hell? he's entitle today that as an american. this is about free speech in this country, or it used to be. now it's about which group do you offend? and, you know -- neil: do they call this populist rage? >> oh, come on, occupy wall street, rage, it's always dismissive language, trivializing language as part of the -- neil: what do you make of bernie sanders' crowds? >> you want to trivial y'allize him too? he's got 30,000 people turning out. it's about the political party, the r, rnc had better be paying attention to what is happening with bernie sanders. because this avowed socialist, this declared socialist is really hitting a vein within

the -- neil: do you know my crackpot theory on him? people admire the fact that he sticks to his country guns and is consistent. you might not like what he's saying -- >> you just described donald trump as well. you've described ben carson, californialy fiorina. the people who are working here are the people who are saying to the establishment, and we could argue if we had more time, i personally believe there's one establishment and two political parties. the people who are doing best certainly in the republican party, certainly with bernie sanders who now has overtaken hillary clinton in new hampshire polling, these are people who are saying we're going to do it a different way -- neil: but do you think the dust settles, lou? you and i can remember this unusual, outside the box candidate that pops up, we fritter with them for a while -- flirt with them for a while, everyone coalesces around an establishment figure when all is said and done. >> i think we're going to see something quite different, because we're already seeing early rejection of so-called establishment figures, rejection in the sense that they are

gaining zero traction despite in the case of governor jeb bush who's a very likable fellow, a very capable fellow. all the money in the world, and it isn't helping. neil: chris christie said that donald trump doesn't have the temperament -- [laughter] that struck me as funny as well. what did you make of that? >> you know, i think maybe he feels he authored the ground upon which trump now treads. and is, perhaps, a little resentful. chris christie, on a policy basis, has to find a new, a new set of issues that so far he has not. i think his demeanor is now, you know, it's being reflected in the reverberations from donald trump. he's going to have to raise his game considerably, i think, to be competitive with trump. neil: do you think that trump is serious about this? charlie gasparino thinks he's a hillary plant. he's nuts, charlie, by the way. >> well, gasparino breaks it -- neil: then i have to fix it.

but do you sense that he's serious about this, or he's just running -- >> the day he got insulted by the republican establishment, donald trump got very serious. he is putting -- neil: that's an excellent point. an excellent point. >> he's pushing hard. by the way, we're seeing a march up in the polling here for, i mentioned, dr. carson, scott walker, carr fiorina along with trump still sitting comfortably above them in the polling. one of the things that's happening on the democratic side is we're watching the implosion of a candidate who should have, in my judgment and all reason, have imploded much sooner. utterly untrust wore in all polling, so many things wrong with the campaign -- neil: talking about hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton is going away. neil: so you're not a fan of hillary clinton? >> oh, i'm a fan of everybody. neil: okay. >> but i am really looking forward to what will be the impact on carly fiorina's candidacy when hillary clinton goes away, and i will tell you right now in my opinion, she is gone within, within weeks.

i think that will be to the benefit of carly fiorina. there will be more attraction as a result on her campaign. neil: interesting. i must say, you were a head of a lot of this. >> well -- neil: maybe you were just mad. >> well, you know, that's the way -- can a lot of folks get dismissed. [laughter] the fact is, i just care. and what you're seeing is a lot of americans and a handful of candidates -- neil: it is showing up, lou. lou dobbs, thank you very, very much. in the meantime, you saw this guy and heard about his story. the irs seized his money, and he actually won. he hadn't done anything wrong. do you think he's ever going to get that money back? >> they kind of stopped questions and told me that they had seized my account of $65,000. neil: bottom line, they still have all this money of yours. any chance you get it back? it's your money, you did nothing wrong. can a business have a mind?

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neil: oh, man, i'm just picturing the reaction of donald

trump to this. we're just getting word that the u.s. is on the eventual of approving a crude oil trade agreement with mexico. this might help them pay for that wall that donald trump wants to build, but it could be a pretty big deal. the mexicans had asked their state-owned oil company, i might point out, to give 100,000 barrels a day. looks like they were going to get it. and all of this at a time we're dealing with all this illegal immigration mess and the like. but you know that will probably come up in iowa this weekend when donald trump is arriving for that big iowa state fair. they all have a chance to talk about things. do you think mr. trump is going to pass up an opportunity to address this? i don't think so. now, take a look at this: it's your moneyny, you did nothing wrong -- your money, you did nothing wrong. >> i did nothing wrong and, hopefully, by the, you know, getting this out in the public and, you know, i did testify for house ways and means, and rangel was there, and they were all

upset is. for them, you know, requesting or pretty much demanding them they give me my money back, i hope i get it back. but i hope everybody else gets theirs back too. they didn't care whether you went out of business because of it or not. it wasn't, you know, a concern of theirs. neil: boy, we got more reaction to that, a farmer who had simply been guilty of making large deposits that, apparently, caught the bank's attention, then the irs' attention as if something nefarious was going on. fast forward, nothing was. but he had his money impounded. all of that money that was out there impounded, and then the government kept a huge chunk of it, still does, about $30,000 that he is not getting back anytime soon even though, i stress, much against the government and the irs' original charges, something weird was going on. nothing was. doug burns says in this case the irs is right. so, seth, to you first, you

think this is overreach, right? >> absolutely. it's an abuse of power. this is a case of due process flipped upside down. this is a husband and wife that are just -- they're not running a criminal conglomerate, they're running a small dairy farm in frederick county, maryland, and the irs agents came in, asked them a couple of quick questions, and they seized his assets. now under this tortured approach, they have the burden of proving that they didn't do anything wrong in order to get their money back. so it's really a situation where everything's turned upside down. it's fundamentally unfair, and it's outrageous, and it's going to crush a business like this, because they don't have the breathing room to be able to have this frozen. it's really an outrageous -- neil: doug, as you know, i watch a a lot of legal shows, so i quaff as a lawyer. -- qualify as a lawyer. [laughter] what's wrong with him getting his money back? >> i'm not limiting my analysis. let's give it perspective, neil.

between 2005 -- neil: do you think he should get his money back? >> yes, he should, if it was established that -- neil: well, there. we have nothing to argue about. >> between '05 and '12, there were 85 cases, okay, and the reality is the irs is empowered if they think -- neil: but they overstepped here, and he should get his money back. >> occasionally, neil, you're going to get a fishing net that -- neil: you would. seth, to that point, doug's point that, you know, some innocent victims get caught up sometimes but to the good, you say what? >> i think that's like trying to catch a mosquito with a hammer. there's much more refined and very simple ways to do this so that you don't crush these poor, innocent businesses. why don't you have some kind of a notice for an expedited hearing? put them in some kind of temporary receivership where you can monitor the account and have a due process hearing. this is a situation of, basically, david v. goliath where david has limited cash, and goliath has unlimited resources. there's a problem in the

background, but there's certainly a more refined way to do this -- neil: well, doug knows nothing about refined. [laughter] i'm kidding. >> neil, also, the irs commissioner, looks, i know he's taken a lot of punches, but the reality, neil s he testified a couple times before congress and said, look, a federal prosecutor and a judge should approve this. and again, we would hope that you're not -- neil: but he's not getting the money back. he's not doing this. this poor guy is out $30,000, and that's outrageous. all these obnoxious questions about the irs were thwarted by my producer ralph. [laughter] we'll have more after this.

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neil: you know part of the research i do to stay on top of things to help you on basic cable, america, you're welcome, i watch other news channels. i actually do. other business channels. actually do. just to know some of the idiotic things they're saying. i'm catching another news channel talking about people like carly fiorina, you know, businessmen can never cut it. they can never cut it in congress and can not cut it in governorships and can't cut it going for brass ring of presidency of the united states. i'm thinking to myself, self, i know people who came from the business world and done quite well in the business world and moved on over, transitioned to the political world and actually comported themselves quite well and get rave reviews from both sights sides of the aisle. one joins me.

no matter what you think of his politics, no doubting that congressman darrell ice -- issa doing okay job and no doubt he came into congress as one of it is richest members. a very successful businessman who directed electronics. obviously became a huge, huge multimillion-dollar operation. so, he is proof that you can do well as a businessman in the political world. so on that angle, if you don't mind, congressman, to this doubt people have about carly fiorina or to a donald trump that they can't succeed. i'm thinking about guys like michael bloomberg. people don't have to agree with your politics or point of view but there is no doubt you thrived and thrived in this world, right? >> well, exactly, neil. you know, everyone's dealing with the fact that donald trump has not taken off his way of doing business in the business world when he has come to the world of government. maybe that is a mistake, maybe

it is simply unique time and it will resonate. whether it is george washington, who would be a multibillionaire if you looked at his lands and holdings today, or people with other life stories, not just business. ronald reagan, who was an actor, obviously dwight david eisenhower, who was a general, and came -- neil: bus business, congressman, not to jump on you, my friend, businessmen and women who take a rap. mitt romney i can raked over the coals laid off workers that he turned around. people ignored the fact that many more jobs he insured and grew. it was carly fiorina, ripped for 30,000 layoffs of hewlett-packard in middle of a technology free fall. she turned that to an advantage, saying i should do the same with bost. i am saying businessmen and women are cast in particularly evil light. i don't think i'm wrong on that. >> no. but, it is sort of interesting,

people are willing to have career politicians and lawyers but they're worried about somebody who is approved signing of front of a paycheck, not just endorsing back. neil: brilliant point. excellent point. business guys, no -- know math, which is foreign concept to colleagues, minus ad dish shun, subtraction. if we don't get for business types in there we won't get problems solved. >> you have to listen to the business community if you want the economy to prosper. you have to understand government if you want to make government work bert. you have to understand organizations regardless where you are in government. so that is why i did use president eisenhower who understood large organizations that was part of success of his presidency. one thing that think can be said is when you try to go from any outside profession to this club of politics, you're almost

always shunned if you start too high and you haven't been a dog catcher and a cat catcher or mayor. neil: how did you get elected? obviously you pull it off yourself, reelected many, many times? i'm good at creating jobs. i'm good at knowing what works and i'm good at what happens a community or district in in case? because the party will need that advice now? >> i did it the same way carli is trying to do it. i ran for the senate against barbara boxer and lost. i came back and said i still believe in serving in my government. in my case i chose the house. i've been fighting ever since to try to take the bureaucracy and inefficiency and i use the word without restraint, the corruption that is inherent how government runs here and around the world. this is part of what a trump message has to be, is that government doesn't serve us well. it is always about how much more money can you give, you rather than, how can we do more with less, something in the private

sector innovation is caused us to dot? neil: very well-put. i wanted to focus on just that. you indulged me. thank you, congressman. always good seeing you. >> good to see you. neil: for you, watching at home. that is all i'm saying here. you can agree or disagree with the congressman and his politics but there is no harm getting business types in there to mix it up at least they argue for business, argue what is important for business, get a sense how you create business, how you create jobs. we could do worse, right? in the meantime speaking of things that may be seen anti-business or certainly anti-fixing hillary clinton just tweeted following. today is social security's 80th, birthday. yes, ralph was right. finally today. congrats thinking what some republicans think should be retirement age. oh, no, you didn't. no, you didn't. did you just say hillary clinton, that republicans are making 80 the new retirement age?

is this veiled swipe at them reforming this program that could be running out of cash sooner than we think? even adam lashinsky must be supremely offended. adam, what do you think of this? >> thank you, neil. i think shy wasn't being literal. neil: no, i think she was, adam, i think she was! >> well, i don't know of anyone who advocates raising retirement age to 80, i think it would be quite prudent and one of the quick fixes for social security problems, neil, to raise the retirement age above 65, which is, we're all, young people at 65, right? but, what she is saying is, the republicans want to raise it to 80, meaning they want to get rid of social security, which is quite accurate. republican does. neil: i always think, i know where battle lines are being drawn on this stuff. i don't know how many times you gotten into this and close to social security as a result. >> thankfully. neil: one side says it doesn't need fixing. other side says you got to do

something. nothing is done. the elephant in the loom is not republican elephant. a large elephant in the room acknowledges people are pay in to a system which is get getting oiler, some tinkering some adjustments. chris christie said to your point, not raising retirement age not 80 immediately but a month or for a year for next 25 years. anyone who up to on that is throwing granny off a cliff or worse s that right or fair? >> no, this is not right. this is one of those examples where there actually is good bipartisan support for entitlement reform especially for social security. well-meaning -- by the way, professional politicians agree on this. this is one of those areas where we have, you know, we he have problems at the extremes of people who use this as political message and say, as you said, we're pushing grannies off the hill. we don't bet these things done. it's a shame. don't get immigration reform done for similar reasons even

though presidents george w. bush and president obama supportings immigration reform. these are some of the difficult political issues. neil: you're not taking hillary clinton at face value that republicans are trying to make 80 the new retirement age? >> no, but i take her at face value some republicans would like to eliminate social security. neil: do you think she is open to reforming social security? >> yes, i do. neil: look at me right not eyes right now. look at me right in the eyes right now. liar, liar, pants on fire. you do not mean night i don't think why she shouldn't be? she is responsible leader. neil: did you see that tweet? she said about chris christie even tinkering with this. >> no, i didn't. neil: okay, fine. >> but i will. neil: always good have youing, my friend. >> thank you. neil: no, kidding. adam lashinsky, a great guy. we're just learning that the very thing that used to be impervious to any hacking, anyone screwing around with it, are now leading the hack attacks.

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>> i'm connell mcshane with your fox business brief on "cavuto: coast to coast." there is golf major going on,

when that happens here at fox business network we love that we randomly talk about golf-related stocks for you. it is not really that random because many of them are doing quite well and many of them are doing quite well this year, not only today but here they are. some of the clothing related stocks, oxford, under armour, nike, those are some of the year top performers. nike, rory mcilroy is back this week. jordan speith i believe is tied for lead at pga so he is playing well. some of the stocks are doing well. this is my favorite stock index beating s&p 500 by wide margin this year, for whatever that is worth. 13%. s&p you have one. should have bet on golf. "cavuto: coast to coast" is coming back. no more golf after this. hi.

hi. hi. hello. hi. hi. hi. hi my name's josh. kelly. my name is raph. steve. my name is anne. tom. brian. krystal.

and i am definitely not a robot. i'm one of the real live attorneys you can talk to through legalzoom. whether it's for your business or your personal life, don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up. because we're here. we're here, we're here, and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here. neil: all right, all you kids, you know there used to be a time when apple was never hacked. microsoft, windows related devices they were hacked. ibm, ms-dos, yeah, i know this stuff, they were hacked. never apple. now apple is leading target of hacked phones. lizzie macdonald. >> fireeye, cybersecurity firm found 11 apps can be hacked. the hackers come in. hijack all of the stuff in your

mobile device, your smartphone, contacts photos. what you visited on webb. zoom it to remote server to start downloading information. could be personable identifiable information. what's app, facebook, twitter. they can be hacked. fake appses pop up looking like them. neil: when they do, what happens? >> when you click it inserts malware in your device and ripping off your personal information. neil: or shut down the device, right? >> also skype is in there and google chrome. separate from, that ibm security profound that 55% of the android devices can be hacked via apps. that is pretty scary. neil: what is the warning you get if something happens? in my daughter's case she had suspicious text. she didn't recognize the text. but she hit it. and, the whole phone shut down? >> that is exactly right. via that. neil: from connell. >> from connell mcshane. prone to doing that. he is prone to do that.

neil: get your new phone. >> buy connell more things. neil: it is weird, right. >> it is weird. if information looks wobbly or shaky, that syndication. google and apple they have zoomed patches all of this into the system. there is fear not every device was fixed. so. neil: you have to keep updates right? >> you got to keep updating. you may get a message update the phone security. the whole thing is. the whole app industry is known for having malware and being easily hacked. so you got to watch out for the apps that you're using. check your phone. neil: yeah. i just pen and paper. >> just notes. neil: appreciate it. in the meantime, here is the big rage debates are. kids made them even more fun. >> what are you supposed to do -- >> [inaudible]. >> no better --

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>> i'm going to run hard, run with heart and run to win. >> [inaudible]. >> that is completely ridiculous answer. >> i'm going to get more records from terrorists and less records from other people. >> who are you supposed to know, megyn. >> [inaudible] >> you know better. >> [inaudible]. >> tell you -- [laughter]. neil: they do that for the fbn debate, we are on. welcome back, everybody. you know it is a big deal when they put kid versions. takes off online. connell, dagen back with us. all the proof this debate season everything is you bir, uber.

>> it is carnival, right? you call it the clown car? neil: the kids are genuine versions of at adult counterparts. >> i attach what is going on with republicans and candidates to the iowa state far. you start off with the fried pickle. that is delicious. then you eat the foot-long corndog. then you're dipping into the rack of ribs. when you get to the bacon and maple funnel cake you're about ready to hurl. >> oh, man. neil: riley? i didn't know we were going there. i appreciate the clarification. >> i like the rand paul kid a lot for some reason. >> i like the scott walker one. we didn't see him. >> i have a harley he said, right? >> "funny or die" have done funnier. if they do it for fbn, they should have kid play you. they had actual bret baier. i think we should have a kid playing him. neil: i like how they he had it that. that is funny how they did that.

>> connell relates to all of this, when connell was three you know he was wearing a suit. neil: absolutely. and doing little mini debates. we're all running for president. you have to assume a progun position. >> yeah. all the kids were playing like "g.i. joe" and fort. i want to play -- neil: i don't know if you saw this, but transcends to democratic debates in september and move on, young people, this is hot among the key dome me, they say -- demo, people were into this. what do you think? >> good tv. somebody wrote on "politico," if trump ever gets ahold of this guy, trump talks like a third-grader. just used small word he uses. you're a dummy, moron. that makes for good tv, interesting tv. neil: what would it be like without it? >> if trump wasn't in it? >> it would be dull, wouldn't it. >> it would be different.

neil: can we show that again, ralph? play trump. i love this kid. it is great. this guy who plays bret, looks like bret. >> that kid will get mean tweets from donald. neil: look at hair! >> trump changed all other candidates. he has been himself. what he has done for years, for better, you like him or not, that is how he is. neil: there is trump. >> there he is. neil: i love that. you're all dumb. i can't deal with you. >> that is fox news female anchor hair right there. neil: look at the time, dagen. look at the time. >> what? neil: look at this. i can not top this i can not top this. guy could be elected president. >> you're terrific.

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>> it's the chart of the day. neil: i actually like this chart. you know why? it is a chart of the dow over the course of a week. look at that. it is finishing up at least now where it started.

you know why i point that out? because we get so caught up in these daily moves, one day we're up 240 points. we slide 200 and whole world is going crazy. i only reveal this to say, step back, stay calm. don't get too upset on downside and. markets evened out. who knows better than always calm ashley webster. hello, ashley. >> stay calm, dripping more tea. neil: okay. >> welcome everybody, to "the intelligence report." i'm ashley webster in this afternoon for trish regan. let's set the scene for you. the year, 1988. george michael's faith, top the charts. general motors was biggest company in the world. senator from delaware decided to run for president. nearly 30 years later that same man, now vice president, may throw his hat into the presidential ring for third time. joe biden, emerged many democrats feel is their only hoo