selloff mode down 200 points. my time is up. and david in for neil cavuto dave it is yours. >> you're handing me a market selloff here on a very tough day for the markets not only for the markets look at what is happening to oil. markets were actually worse than they were right now, they were down about 230. but oil is way down. well over 4% it looks leak it is heading into the 30s and that, of course, is an indicator of an economic worldwide economic slowdown. we're going to stay very on markets on this red day for those markets particularly oil, a lot to cover here including breaking news on the battle at the boarder republicans may be balingsing on how to keep illegals out but blake burman reports immigration courts are getting overwhelmed with the illegals that are already here. blake. >> hi there david that back log is at an all time high according to american immigration counsel. that number now stangdz at

roughly 450,000 pending cases all across the country. that number has just about trip it would as a you can see in that chart right there in the fast ten years alone. illegal immigrants believed to be in the country need to go, however, critics say that would take years if not decades as millions are afford ad due process. according to the a pirks c, the average removal case takes 604 days that's almost 20 months in the major cities of denver, phoenix, los angeles, and chicago. that timeline averages more than 2 years. a justice department told us there's immigration judges for the 450,000th cases. projecting forward here 130 are eligible for retirement this fiscal year.

unknown how many might hang up their robes. last night in an interview with bill o'reilly trump defended mass deportations saying that country is, quote, going to hell and we need to take it back. he said david you need borders and you need law. david back to you. >> blake you talk about the time there's also the money involved each case, each one of those 450,000 cases each one cost $12,000 to adjudicate you multiply with a huge number to take a lot of time but take a lot of money. blake thank you very much. presidential candidate ben carson briefed on border right now by arizona sheriff paul bab babue letting illegals lock up for violent crimes out of prison. this is a concern that sheriff raise right here with us. take a look. >> there's such a frustration because our government, our federal government has proven to be completely inept that there's

law for you and i that we have to follow but consequences but you commit murder. they release you into our communities, an you don't have to be the sheriff to figure out what's going to happen. >> to take now how the white house isn't talking to guys like sheriff babeu. katy feds are supposed to be helping out local law enforcement not making their job tougher. >> that's all that they do these days is makes jobs tougher. it is a perfect example of that because the federal government in the obama obama administratin argue that illegal immigration is a federal issue, except the problem is that it is a sheriff's department that is getting the phone call when there's a probing with the illegal immigration. they're then sending illegal immigrants into their local jail and then dhs isn't reimbursing them for the cost and they're being vilified for doing all of theheartedwork to get hard criminals who are breaking not only immigration laws, but also

very serious -- and released after doanl a lot of work to get them in jail in the first place. >> with hundreds of thousands of crimes every year all across the united states. but whole system katy is classy. on one hand feds's ice is letting out violent criminal but local sanctuary industries letting out felons as well both on local and federal level things are breaking down. breaking down with law enforcement. i.c.e. agents on the ground they'll tell you that the administration isn't talking to them either. you'll wren back when the gang of eight bill was debated in the senate. you have the head of the i.c.e. union testify in front of congress saying we haven't been consulted when it comes to administration or congress asking what to be doing to make sure they're not on the streets. they say that interior

enportionment aspect not just boarder security but involves everything is not being -- not being done and that they're hands are not. >> i'm getting a wrap but i have to ask what about donald trump he's right in pin pointing the problem. does he have a solution? >> donald trump has been getting heat for saying he wants to essentially repeal the 14th amendment but you know what preventings problem of people staying here and overstaying their visas tough interior enforcement and border security you can do that without the repeal and he has a point with enforcing the law as we have in the books with local law enforcement, and federal law enforcement to do their jobs when it comes to immigration reform. >> but it is breaking down on all levels we have serious problem. we have breaking news internationally russia is moving ahead with a missile sale to iran to seemingly violate international captions. iran reportedly plans to sign the contract with russia as soon as next week this dmoms a

broader context to another iran deal, one that has got even democrats fuming, if you're watching yesterday you saw new york state assemblyman doug warning us this nuclear deal with iran could lead to world war ii all over again. take a look. >> this is insane to do this. and i would urge my physical fellow democrats tack politics out of this. i wish the president of the united states qowld say to the democratic party this is an issue of conscience. this could be the biggest mistake ever, this could be chamberlain thinking that the world have been -- that they fooled hitler. hitler was making peace. we're dealing with this regime responsible for terrorism all over the world. >> republican congressman steve russell just got back from israel and says this isn't a left or right issue but national security issue. thank you for coming i appreciate what you're saying but these days as you well know everything is political. leading up to 2016, and there

are a lot of jewish democrats like our last guest that you just heard in that little soundbite who are furious about this. and i'm wondering because they're so upset about this if they will vote republican come 2016. >> i don't know about the republican 2016 vote. but i do know they're going to vote their conscience on the congressional floor, and god bless them. this is a matter of national security. we cannot trust iran 35 years we've seen what they are doing. this is a terrible deal, and we have to do everything in a bipartisan fashion to stop it. >> but the flipside of those democrat who is do vote their conscience is opposed to following a step is most of them overwhelmingly most of them are voting in lock step with their -- with their president with the party leaders. so is there any possibility of an override of the vito that is coming? >> that remains to be seen. i do think that the deal will be

rejected by both houses whether or not we got to 2930 or 66 in the senate, that will be problematic, however, that doesn't mean that that's our mainl strategy, david. we're going to go after this, and we have a good -- plan that will come out in september, and we're going to target iran, the president has made a grave mistake here, american people know it, and we're going to do everything we can to stop it. >> people say it is a mistake that went be reversed. what is happening with the sanctions against iran is that europeans dragged kicking and screaming to sanctions are released even if we change our position on iranian deal they're not going to go back to where they were. >> i disagree with that, in fact, just from an investment cycle if you're talking about future investment and you go to iran you're not going to rush in where it is unstable. because you have dollars that you're committing or euros they're going to take a step back couple of years an see how

things play out. whether the united states lead people follow, and if we reject this deal we reject the treaty and start what did we get? better deals. >> so bottom line is you're saying that that hundred billion or plus some people say atsz as a much as 150 billion might not be coming if, in fact, the europeans think twice about whether to invest there? i think if we maintain sanctions and maintain the line to have a major impact and whether it is 56 billion or 150 billion, there's no question that now even under -- very spartan times that they will do so with this influx of cash. >> even the administration admitted that. congressman steve russell from oklahoma thank you very much sir. thank you for being here. let's take a look at the stocks lower as china continues to weigh on companies here. the market was down more, but 195 is nothing to sneeze at.

look at the indices are down over 1% and oil moving down close to that $30 mark that was down about 4.5% earlier. coming back a little bit. but it is very close to taking the 30 handle on oil for a barrel of oil. all right next hillary getting testy but are her donors getting kind of anxious about thingings. clinton campaign may be dismissing problems, but science that her backers are not dismissing them so easily. charlie gasparino on that, after this. ♪

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>> we're in the midst of a market selloff ladies and gentlemen all a of the indices down over 1% has to do with china. ant any on earlier saying a lot of it has to do with the fed. we have the fed minutes coming out a little later. suggestions that, in fact, there is going to be a red hike. looks at oil, though, this is a energy stock that is way down. but if we can put oil up specifically. oil has not been this low since march of 2009. i'm slur y'all remember but that was in the midst of the worst recession we've had in a long time. march 2009 was when you can bye apple for stocks down. now, obviously, we're not in the midst of the recession right now but it gives an indication of how significant this drop in oil is. and, of course, as we saw just moments ago all of those oil o stocks getting killed along with oil. stocks like slumber, halliburton

and exxonmobil et cetera getting hurt tremendously, and then there's this. take a look. like claw or something? >> i don't -- i know you want to make a point, and i can just repeat what i have said. in order -- in order took as cooperative as possible, we have turned over the server they can do whatever to figure out what is there, not there. thank you y'all very much. >> i wonder, can you imagine her sitting down with a bunch of donors not saying word about e-mails she said wiping it. i don't know how to wipe. you use a cloth or something. that was her own ed henry that started questioning on that. now she claims nobody wants to talk about it. it is our suspicion that a lot of donors who have given a lot

of their own money millions in some cases do want to talk about it. charlie knows a lot of those donors and here to give us the inside scoop. >> i think at some point if this keeps going there will be, you know -- these wall street guys are like, you know, risk adverse, and you know, they don't want to be associated with someone who is considered sleazy because it rubs off on them and then a heavily regulated industry that is last thing they need. >> they would like to give money to the top regulator in the world like the next president of the united states. >> john mack was on the show earlier today an asked the question. i don't think he was holding back. he basically didn't seem that concerned right now. i think you know, listen when you talk to people, are they talking about it. where is it going to lead, are they hitting panic button just now i would say no. >> what she says and we had her on tape saying nobody but the press is asking her about this. do you believe that? >> i don't think -- >> with a donor qongt say

anything. aren't you worried hillary. >> i don't think they have the guts to get hurl on it. i think a lot of donors are actually -- her friends, and they know not to go there. these guys understand politics, and so it will be if it keeps going. >> i thought it was critical. >> it is not yet. it t listen she gets indicted it is critical. >>indicted if she keeps going. remember what she's saying here. listen i hate to be quoting another news outlet but jeffrey tuben of the new yorker wrote an interesting piece. i would just say you know i'm right of center, and you know, the new the new yorkers and read what he said. the leet logic is pretty sound. you have to prove intent. >> and i know -- don't want to get into legal things neither one of us is legal expert but i'm wondering -- of course it is important charlie but we're not lawyers.

what i'm interesting in is what the donors are going to do. pmpleg all the same. >> do you think donors -- do you think the donors are looking elsewhere? >> finish my point, donors at least ones i talked to think that she has a rational explanation. that they weren't confidential. >> are they looking elsewhere perhaps at an al gore or mixed -- >> i don't think he's going to run or biden will unless she hits panic but the button gets hit and in deep trouble. >> charlie tacks to these guys so i listen carefully so say what they're thinking. i'm surprised. >> other hand of the story when i said that on the air today, e-mailed me and he says they are -- they are worried that's what he says behind scenes they're not showing. but they are worried that this will lead to some massive tront. but i'm telling you my experience is no, not yet.

>> meanwhile energy companies dealing with a fallout of the new epa rule. coal stocks getting pummeled under president obama. but 180 from a big backer of president obama, george is repeatedly demonized fossil fuels particularly coal now buying into coal. the stunning hypocrisy talking to his book. should we be surprised? that's next.

>> breaking news we've been talking about the absurdity of immigration law but what about of drone laws at least two storess inside newark airport, inside are selling drones despite federal rules prohibiting flying them near airports. this is mind blowing. this happening as pilots are saying drone sightings have more than doubled this year.

but you walk into the airport. you go through all of the checks and then you can buy a drone right there sneak outside, set it, extraordinary. one bright spot in today's selloff. kohl's stocks tack a look at this. kohl's stocks booming arch cole down tremendously ever since president obama came in started -- talking bad about cole. look at where they are up 42% extraordinary gains from pea body energy as well. alfa natural resources, this is all higher after a big bet from none other than george soros yes a billionaire investing 2 million in pea body energy, but this is at complete 180 from his position. soros repeatedly demonizing coal industry in 2009 even went as far to say, quote, there's no magic bullet for climate change. but there is a lethal bullet, cole, and now he's buying into it. john leifield is here from bermuda.

what do you think? i've never seen hypocrisy like all of this. >> rich guys that claim why is rich not paying taxes and this is george soros talking about stocks with one of the dirtiest fuel you can have to make energy. a matter of ideology, this is how i want to make money. >> now i always say old rule in journalism you follow the money. you're always hearing claim by climate change people that, you know, 98% of scientists believe in climate change, believe in global warming, et cetera. but what they don't tell you is how much these scientists are making or taking that position. billions and billions of tax dollars worldwide it is not just us. euros pay more in tax tots climate change scientist that goes into this huge pile. no wonder that you are in favor of the idea of climate chack because they benefit tremendously from that. >> look how much money al gore has made in the past dc keyed

decade made in climate change. >> made the biggest -- >> and failed to negotiate with glenn beck because of ideology and sells to a company that makes their money off of false -- >> i guess we shouldn't be surprised with hypocrisy this goes with this territory. >> absolutely not you put your public image out there. warren buffett tacks about how much taxes rich should pay and yet hides in plain sight by using his millions to hide his billions. >> let's talk about something you're associated with wwe, wrestler from way back, this is an extraordinary turnaround story. about a year ago there's vince mcman right there. he and his wife were running an organization in serious trouble. a lot of people were suggestingg this company might not make it. it has come back 70% the stock. why do they make this turnaround

work? >> it is the company of wwe events to take a bet on wrestle mania one he was a pioneer of that. he was a pioneer in paper view as well, and he mortgages to roll the dice just as much, with this over the top network. >> a lot of people you talk about corporate titans who lose touch with what's happening this is a guy who prides himself from knowing how things are from the ground up. >> solved over the top network coming where they get land, you don't like to be that far ahead of the curve like wwe was at the time because you go over the top and take all of your pay-per-views big sourings of your rev u knew put it on a network that you charge $ 99 for you cannibal size after about six to nine months they were sitting at 600,000 subscribers it looked leak this idea might not work. they never waiverred they went to a free month, more of a netflix model where you don't

sign up for an entire year six months, month by month and siting at subscribers with barclays center sold out for this. >> you are talking your book here because you're actually going ton doing the vince mcman kind of thing? >> i'm the commentator and long time owner of stock of wwe. >> this stock has incredible turnaround. >> passed their 500th half a billion sold wwe unbelievable story. >> john good to see you my friend. thank you very much. well donald trump's immigration plan getting heat from democrats. but why isn't the left saying anything about this democrat? >> if making it easy to be an illegal alien isn't enough, how about offering to be an illegal ail yent. no same country would do that, right? can a business have a mind?

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at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping. . david: on a down day, not everything is down. take a look at gold. we are up 1% on gold. well over 1100. up $29 above that amount. part of that is because of a flight to safety but that flight to safety hasn't worked in gold's favor over the past couple of months. all of the miners with the exception of american international are in the green, some of them bigtime. there's a guy named stan

druckenmiller who invested very heavily because of his 13 f filing in gold particularly in gld. i should mention, i have a little of gld myself, don't want to get any misimpressions, this is what the guy is buying into. he had a $300 million stake in gld which is an etf that you can buy into gold. that may or may not have affected the price of gold, perhaps it is a flight to safety. for whatever reason gold is up right now. there's the gld chart, way down over the past year, finally getting a little break today. to this blast from the border past. take a look. >> if you break our laws by entering this country without permission and give birth to a child, we reward that child with u.s. citizenship, and guarantee a full access to all public and social services this society provides. and that's a lot of services. david: senator harry reid, of

course, democrat, has obviously evolved on his immigration views which pretty much sound like donald trump right now. republicans aren't allowed to evolve in to economic strategist nomiki on the double standard. don't you think there is one here? >> i don't. i think harry reid has come out several times and said this is the number one mistake he made. democrats shot it down, he said he wasn't educated enough. politicians change their mind on a daily basis. david: they do. that's what people don't like about it. >> right. part of it has to do with compromise, harry reid was wrong on this, he said it over and over. david: what way is he wrong? >> he didn't understand how the 14th amendment works. our ancesters would provide better lives. my grandparents took advantage of the 14th amendment. we had different immigration policies, much more open border back then. obviously, there's a lot of pressure to put the security to

work. david: that's the point, and i'm hearing it frankly from the left, that our situation has changed a lot in many ways since the constitution was written. and one of the ways it's changed is the border, the border has become much more porous, our welfare policies are such we are attracting hundreds of thousands of immigrants who come here for the welfare, particularly in the case of many pregnant women who walk across the border. have their child, who is immediately able to get various welfare programs from a ftc to various health care, et cetera. because of the changing circumstance, shouldn't we change part of the 14th amendment? >> i think that would be in retrospect we would regret that. david: why? >> because right now, the surge has gone down. over the past ten years, there was a surge, there's a lot of restrictions at the border. thing that's going to solve this is comprehensive immigration reform. there could be another crisis, there could be humanitarian crisis.

david: we have two crises, in fact. one is criminal, you've seen the stats. 600,000 crimes committed by illegal aliens over five years. it's enormous, and we have the financial problem. the amount of money spending on welfare for illegal immigrants is enormous and, in fact, we've seen it play out in europe, it's breaking european economies. many of them, places like belgium, france, et cetera are having a terrible time because of the immigrants from other places for their welfare. >> the reality is that the numbers are much smaller in comparison to the cost we have on our economy to not have immigrants as part of our community. 40% of entrepreneurs are immigrants or children of immigrants that benefitted from the 14th amendment. immigration has gone down over the past two years because of the obama administration because he takes the problem seriously. david: the problems associated with immigration are going way

up in terms of the crime. >> well, the crime -- >> because of our own policies, it's not just to the illegal immigrants, but a lot of people, and frankly that is what is drawing more of the wrong kind. we love immigrants. i married an immigrant. i love immigrants in the united states who come here to work. not who come here to beg off of the welfare policy. >> and most people who come here legally through the system have means. that's the reality. david: no, no, no, no, no. we could argue the numbers for a long time. >> to be able to get a green card, to go through the process. david: we're talking about those who are here without a green card. and frankly the people who try to get a green card, the decent people trying to get a green card are not allowed in. that's part of the problem. nomiki, good to see you again. >> thank you. david: half of apple's streaming users have bolted from the service. the reason for that. after this.

. david: as we continue to follow this drop in oil, it is down about 4.5% right now. we're just hearing that russian oil companies are going to continue to increase output in the next few years, even if oil prices remain weak. we heard the same about saudi arabia about a week ago, oil down about 4%. what does all this mean for gas? just a penny. we're a penny cheaper today in gas. a lot of it has to do with refineries and their capacity, but when the heck is gas going to keep up with the doup fall of oil? we hope it happens soon. stock alert on apple, investors fearing a slowdown in china means a slowdown in sales for the iphone maker. apple is one of the u.s. companies that release heavily on china, and, of course, as china goes down, they are deeply concerned about their sales over there. meanwhile, this isn't helping

apple either, apple music users fleeing from the service as lots of critics saying it's not simple enough. a tough thing to negotiate your way through. steve jobs built the company on the focus of simplicity. that was his motto. is tim cook making things too complicated for users? is he too smart for his own good. >> to "risk & reward" host deirdre bolton. >> who is musical. david: and following this. i have to say, there's a lot of competitors to apple. >> certainly are. it's not just spotify, not just pandora. you have a soft spot for amazon. david: i love amazon prime music. >> itunes has nearly quadrupled, so four times the amount of credit cards of users on file as amazon does. when you think about it in apple's potential terms, that is it. to get back to your original point. apple critics say it's a beautiful but cluttered

interface which is exactly the opposite of the steve jobs mission. david: and people don't have -- when people are shopping around for a different source, if they see something that doesn't work right as far as they're concerned. they've got plenty of options. >> battery drain, to your point, it is clunkier than spotify and the younger kids than you or i. they say you can't follow your friends, you can't share a play list which you can on spotify. there is on pandora, on tidal. if you want to talk mass numbers, apple has 800 million credit cards. david: i know, extraordinary. >> the biggest gorilla in the room. david: something like half of the people tried it decided they didn't like it? >> they decided they didn't like it. we're in the free trial period. people say apple is tweeking right now. it only went live in june, and though you and i are saying, in quotation marks, 11 million

users, it took spotify ten years to get that amount people. apple has been doing that in three months. david: i do not have amazon, i do not have stock, i love that service, and the stuff you get for free is good stuff. it's not second rate music. it is the top rated music. see you at 5:00 tonight? >> yes, you will. david: deirdre, thank you. looking at stocks, get your financial adviser on the phone while you can, because the white house is looking to crack down on financial advisers and the hills kevin sorelli saying it could take billions of dollars to implement. kevin, what are the new rules and why are they necessary? >> thanks for having me, essentially what this is from the administration standpoint is a reproposal of a 2010 regulatory effort that failed. progressives and liberals argue that these new rules would require new disclosure requirements for financial advisers to disclose how

exactly they are getting paid off of financial advice they make to consumers. but the business community, moderate democrats as well as republicans argue that hey, wait a minute, this new regulatory proposal is unneeded and would essentially raise costs on financial advisers, and end up hurting the same consumers that the administration is trying help by raising costs. david: let me get back to the rational. i can't figure out if the lawmakers say this is necessary, the rule makers say this is necessary because consumers are getting ripped off or because money managers are making too much. i don't care if a money manager is making a lot of money as well as i'm making money as well. if i'm getting ripped off, i do care. >> that's a good point and the administration's argument is wait a minute, a financial adviser might be earning a commission from a financial constitution, regardless of whether or not they're selling advice. what's interesting about this, though, i think where this debate is headed, a lot of folks in the business community

are telling me, hey, this kind of reminds us of the obamacare argument, if you like your plan, you can keep it. a lot of folks are raising the concern if this regulation passes that folks might not be able to keep their financial adviser and forced into robo advisers. what's interesting is that the ideological battle lines are complicated and increasing number of moderate democrats are speaking up against this proposal. david: and you better believe the lobbyists on both sides of this are out in force right now. >> yeah. david: trying to push their own particular book through the congress. thank you very much for coming in, kevin cirelli, the hill financial reporter. hackers posting data of millions of ashley madison customers. also the need for technology in our vehicles is coming at the cost of other people's lives. jeff flock on how distracted drivers are becoming a bigger and bigger problem. lot of lives being lost because

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. david: a hacker group is trying to stop infidelity. 32 million cheaters at a time. activist group impact team just released names and addresses of cheating website members of ashley madison. users one month after hacking the site. this isn't the first time hackers are extorting a company. remember, sony? to dagen mcdowell, first of all, are we sure the hackers were trying to stop infidelity or have blackmail in mind? >> there's no evidence of blackmail. they told when the hack was

first executed they told ashley madison to take the site down. they were also irritated it seems by you pay to have your information scrubbed and they accused ashley madison of not scrubbing old accounts. >> is this a jealous spouse ticked off? >> it could be a vigilante hacking group, if you can imagine that. that would be a first. but david, hackers are prosecuted all the time. cybercrime is that, is a crime. yet there's nine people arrested and charged after stealing corporate news released related to insider trading. if they can track down the hackers, they will be charged and prosecuted more than likely. however, i wanted to point out that there is a responsibility of the company to protect this information, particularly if that is the core of your business is protecting people who want to cheat on their spouses, and the same goes for sony, sony doesn't get a free pass, systems were weak enough

they could be infiltrated over a long period of time. remember sony, the playstation system was hacked for a month in 2011, and the company still didn't learn from. that i wanted to point out with the ashley madison hack. it's 32 million names, not just addresses, credit card numbers. also people's sexual preferences. david: whoa! >> so it also falls on the responsibility of somebody signing up for the site. you can't expect that your information is private. these people are sitting in front of a computer going i like women's armpits. david: i'm wondering if somebody you -- you know this is going to happen, somebody indexes all the information so there's a search mode so can you immediately find out if your spouse is doing it. somebody you don't like, you're vying for his job and find you are on it. there's all kinds of ways now that the information is out there, can be spun. >> authorities can find out who did it, i'm sure they will be

charged. david: charged, but intent. if the intention is to make money, if the intention to expose something they don't like, it's harder to prosecute. >> it's still a crime, though, you can't break into somebody's computer system and take information, and exposing people's credit card numbers even if you don't use them. scarlett johansson, there were a number of actress's photos. this was not jennifer lawrence, scarlett johansson, mila kunis, some years ago. man who hacked into their accounts got ten years in prison. david: woo. that's hard time in prison, too. not a country club. dagen mcdowell, thank you very much. >> i kept it clean. david: is madison going to survive? >> that's the question. their business was hurt after the revelation. according to one report it. cut traffic to the site by half, and remember they were planning to go public in

london, and it seemed as if traffic was coming back and had gotten back to normal. david: not many tears for the company. dagen mcdowell, thank you very much. a deadlier distraction, the rising number of distracted drivers on the road doing this. jeff flock is checking out the types of distractions car drivers face, and in this incredible contraption. i don't know if you are on the inside. you can show us how it works? >> i am, on the inside of this pod-like structure at pored in dearborn, michigan. the virtual what? >> the virtual test track experiment. >> reporter: what i love with ford, they're dealing with the reality of. this don't text and drive. well, the fact is a lot of people text and drive or are distracted in some way, and you know what? what can you do about that? ford's trying to come up with ways to do something about it.

this is an incredible experience. i can be distracted and drive, i can do a live television broadcast, driving hands off the wheel, talking to you, only if i crash, it won't be the end of the world. we're running through a simulation here where i have to read texts that come up on a screen, and when we do that, it's amazing how it takes your mind off of what's going on out there. there's a big bus ahead of me, read the numbers now, 5, 2, whoa! whoa! whoa! okay. we came to a quick halt. that's what's supposed to happen. >> exactly right. you did a great job. >> we didn't get into a rec. one of the things you are doing to keep people, focus them back on the road? >> absolutely. looking at different alerts and find out across the population what one is the most effective. >> reporter: what they'll do, david, vibrate your seat, vibrate your steering wheel. as you know, we can say don't

text and drive. you'll be caught. reality is if you ride down the road anywhere, you find most of the people you look out the window at, they're texting and driving. what do you do about that? ford's trying to come up with a way. david: make them watch those movies where you see the results of the accidents where people are cut in half and everything. once you see what actually happens as a result of just not looking at the road for five seconds, a lot of people are turned off by that, but other people just won't change. jeff, thank you very much. i've got to get in one of those. next hour, geraldo rivera on donald trump's costly plan to deport illegal immigrants. but couldn't we be spending more money to keep them here? that's the point. that's the debate. geraldo is coming up. david: test

... ...

>> welcome to cavuto, coast to coast, i'm filling in for neil today. they're waiting for fed reserve minutes, an hour from now, 2 p.m. eastern time. some indications whether the fed plans to raise rates and you can see some of that with what's happened with the markets right now. they believe that raets are going up or at-- rates are going up or part of the reason. and peter barnes is standing by. peter, it seems clear to me, i know that china is a concern on the market, but part of concern is that they'll see something in the minutes that will indicate a rate rise. what do you think? >> you're right, david, all of us will be headed into the weeds an hour from now, i love to get in on the fed stuff. we will be looking for clues in the minutes from the july policy meeting on when the fed will start raising interest rates for the first time since the financial crisis. of course, the question is, will it be september? it could be the meeting in october, which doesn't have a

press conference, but then the december meeting, which does. could it be next year? how concerned are fed members about the economic slowdown in china, the rising dollar. they did flag that they were watching just international developments, that's the word they used in their statement in the july meeting last month. they also flagged that they're getting closer to their goals for the jobs market, they're watching inflation pretty closely, but that is still running below the 2% target. david: correct me if i'm wrong, but i know the chinese market had very serious hiccups, nothing like in the past couple of weeks. when these notes were actually written at the last fed meeting, we hadn't seen the huge downturn in the chinese markets, right? >> right, we also had not seen the devaluation in the chinese currency, either, which just happened as well. and that could affect how-- the timing of all of this and we have since the july meeting had this huge drop in commodity

prices which is going to keep inflation. david: so to put a fine point on it. the fact that chinese devalued makes less likely that there will be a rate hike because they're worried about the dollar getting overvalued, correct? >> correct. you're right, that can -- that makes inflation lower and, but it hurts american exports compared to chinese product and could slow the economy. david: peter barnes in d.c. is going to be covering this from stem to stern. to scott martin standing not alone, but in the minority not believing there will be a rate hike not this year. anthony scaramucci was on a little while with stuart and saying, look, there's going to be a rate hike, we've had an indicating from fed president bill dudley saying in the past weeks, they're going to have a

rate hike. you're going against anthony scaramucci. you're going against smart people. >> i am and i consider myself one. in theory we're closer to the rate hike, whether it's september, december. well, guess what's happened? bond rates, the actual open market rates of treasure bonds have done what? they've gone down and considerably. that's pretty strange to me to think that okay, a rate hike is around the corner, yet, interest rates are going down in the open market. david: yeah, and you know, it is true, we're in kind of a different world now than we used to be. markets don't behave as they're supposed to behave. we have thought for a long time, we've been saying that we're going to have inflation as a result of the fed pumping out all of this money and it hasn't happened. so we're in a different world. >> and that's why i think there's no impetus to raise rates and that's also why i think it's going to be a pretty big disaster if the fed hikes

rates here, if you're an investor and worried about your asset allocation, it may be one of those cases where the fed hikes rates, david and the long end of the curve, meaning the longer dated bonds, 10, 20, 30 years out actually goes up in value and down in yields. the short end could bounce and long end, don't be afraid of your bond positions. >> when you talk long end and short ends, you lose me. lets he a pull back and look at the whole economy picture. that's what everybody has to be concerned about. japan is going into a recession again, it looks pretty clear, they've had one their last quarter was negative. they just reported that on monday. they've had 25 years of zero interest rates. what has it got them? not much. their economy has essentially been stagnant for the past 20 years. are we in danger of doing the same thing if we don't eventually raise rates? >> i don't think so. i mean, there's a lot of demographic things going on in japan and did-- >> we haven't seen much growth,

and it's been an anemic recovery. some people don't think it is a recovery, most people don't. >> i agree, but the stock market has responded and i know they're not part and parcel, but there have been some gains. i agree with you, too. economic data around the globe is more deflated than, say, a new england patriots football right now. and that's why the fed-- hey, tom brady. that's why the fed doesn't need to raise rates today, tomorrow or the next day because there's no run away inflation. economies around the globe are slowing down. currencies are falling out of bed and-- >> the average folks are getting killed out there. i know it's great for the markets and i know why. folks who have savings have no money at all. and they're afraid of getting in the markets because thing it's too topsy and i don't think they're wrong. >> i don't think they're wrong. i feel bad for the savers. bonders, aside from price appreciation can't find yield, but i'm not sure that the fed hiking interest rates will

change that. david: frankly, i do think there's inflation. you look at inflation from city governments when you take a subway, when you take a bus, when you cross over a bridge, when you're buying food at the grocery store, believe me, there is inflation. i know when you add it all up, there's no inflation because a lot of the electronics goods. >> it's not demand driven, that's the problem. it's not demand driven, what the fed should be concerned about. david: thank you very much. stocks bouncing back a little bit. it's only down, if you can say only before a negative 164 on the dow. now, china's government is scrambling to rescue its markets by putting a lot of money into those markets. but charles payne says the best way for the market to thrive is to stay out. charlie gasparino has his doubts. the big question, charlie and charles, is that government bureaucrats around the world have been trying to guide our markets in certain directions. are they succeeding or failing? >> big picture, they're quasi,

china is quasi-succeeding in the fact that they've had ten years of a soft landing. >> that's a long soft landing. let's put it this way. we've been talking about them crashing for well over a decade and they haven't crashed. the fact of the matter is, every government, whether it's communists or capitalists, they all try to manipulate their currencies and their economy and ultimately, i think we'll end up with a bunch of greeces. david: they can manipulate the currencies and as a result they can manipulate the capital markets. what about the economy in general? >> that's where it kind of falls flat. if we've learned one thing from qe, besides printing money that's designed to lower long-term interest rates and short-term interest rates, depending where you print your money. when you print money, you buy essentially assets from banks, long-term and short-term

assets. it hasn't done that well for the economy. and scott made an interesting point and here is where you get into the debate whether the fed should stay out of the economy or not. right now they're in a pickle and they know there are asset publics, junk bonds are too high in certain places, but if you go out and raise rates, raise 25 basis points at the fed funds rate, a short-term rate, what he says is on the long end, you may get-- you want rates to rise a little because you want to raise the bubble, but there's a good chance that rates will fall because people will be worried about other currencies and buy u.s. debt, depressing-- am i getting this right, charles? >> when you get to that level, when the long rates go down and short rates go up, that's a dangerous level. >> that's a dangerous level and you don't alleviate the problem. david: something else that's dang are you. breaking news, are we repeating problems of our housing path. housing agency asking freddie mac and fannie mae to provide for support for low income

americans and refinancing. charlie, charles payne, i remember talking to a nice woman back in 2008 who made about $400 a week and just bought a $700,000 house and she couldn't afford it. it was 2008 and she was complaining she was thrown out of her house, are we going back to those days? >> it feels like. the housing market has some pretty good momentum. we're not back to the levels we were, but we're up a lot. the thing is, it gets back to what we were talking about. the government, i'm going to talk about student loans on my show tonight. david: 6 p.m. eastern time. >> this administration is going back and they're trying to get things done in part, in my mind, forgetting about the economy, but to buy votes and we know absolutely this is absolutely destruction. david: is that why this is happening? the new fha? >> no doubt about it. they have themselves to blame, the dodd-frank thing and it went too far. some of the people like the woman you talked to shouldn't

have gotten a loan. and some the loan doesn't have to lend because the fed is-- >> charlie, you know this well, they come out with the new rules that are supposed to protect the little guy, but it's the powerful guy who usually they end up protecting, folks on wall street. >> there are two questions here, is government good at controlling the markets? good at controlling the economy? they're better at controlling the markets than they are -- we went from, because of qe, and interest rates, 6,000 on the dow to where it is now, even though it's trading off today. they're bad at the economy. in controlling the markets, they always set the scene. they always plant the seeds for the next crisis. one of the reasons we had a crisis, a housing crisis and a financial implosion is because alan greenspan kept interest rates super low. one of the many reasons, in addition to housing policy from the federal government. a lot of stuff there. but monetary-- >> they work hand in hand. >> monetary policy catches up

every now and then. david: charles, it comes about because of pretending-- maybe not pretending, but maybe sincere, but want to go help the little guy. they make the case and protected from a hard landing and the little guy is thrown out. >> to the original premise of the whole segment, right? can the government control this kind of stuff? >> the answer is? >> ultimately they can. you create the community act. and there was a lot of discrimination, but then wall street hijacks it and you allow wall street to hijack it and freddie mac and fannie mae, with the slicing and dicing. and you've got the home. if you're the president, home own ownership is under my watch millions it implodes. >> the balloon loans. david: they're coming back. >> the dirty secret, most people who fell were before the balloons went in, before the

new rates went in. they already defaulted and oh, you got me, you actually stopped paying before the rates. >> the more power the government has, the more the powerful are protected than the little guys. great decision. regulations killing a small business, a baker from st. louis telling how the obama administration closed him down for good. you don't want to miss this. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought.

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this is the lowest point since march, 2009. remember, that was in the absolute bottom of our recession. individual energy stocks really getting hit. exxonmobil shares have touched a near four-year low. it's now $76.28. it was down to 75.93 earlier in the session, but a huge hit on energy companies. well, too many regulations are hurting small businesses, even forcing some of them to close their doors. that's what happened at macarth macarthur's bakery in st. louis. the former vp, david mccarthur, a friend of the show, fbn, for nears now. i was shocked to hear that your family doesn't own the business anymore. what happened? did the government put you out of business? >> essentially, david, you've heard me talking about the regulation and rules and costs of going business. in a heartbeat, you could essentially say, yes, the governor has taken away the ability to make any money in

the world we live in today in many small businesses. you know, and it's gone through things like with increases of fuel prices, increases in health care prices, regulations and subsidies that keep costs on things like sugars and oils and dairy and look where eggs are right now. such inflated prices. and certain businesses today, you can't survive. you know? you can be regulated right out of business no matter how good of a job you do, after 60 years of the family business. david: after 60 years you had to sell. the last segment we were talking about how all the rules are meant to help the little guy. and the politicians talk, we need to help the little guy with this, that and the other thing. the rules and regulations are hurting the little guy. the new epa regulations which are eventually going to cost, pretty soon cost the electricity costs to go up. a small bakery are killed by the high energy costs, right? >> that's right, you know,

that's how i got involved in television in the first place, back in the cap and trade era when we looked at putting those, you know, taxes on the carbon taxes and you know, when you're in a business like the bakery business or factory or anything, energy, your energy is not based on how good of a job can i do saving it. the better my business is, the more energy i use. it's as simple as that. so the more i do, the more my cost is driven up, but the ability to make a profit is driven down in the world we live in today. a state like missouri, about 80% of our powell comes from coal and now we've got a president that's going to, by the sign of his pen, putman dates on this stuff that's going to drive energy prices up 40%. where does it come from? you can't raise your prices 40%. people don't have it. david: do you think that the politicians have any idea, particularly when you think of president obama. >> no. david: because he's doing a lot of this through executive action, changing the regs that the epa impose on companies. do you think he had any idea

what a guy like you, a small business man has to go through to make the books balance at the end of the months? >> no idea, none of them do. i go out to bill clinton, he was out at the pizza chain in nebraska and talked about raising the tax price and told the owner of company if the product is good, raise the price, the customer will come back. that's insane because the customer has a limited budget and when you're in a commodity item like we have that's not a necessity, when the money is not in the wallet, the person doesn't come in the door and that's if you're in the trinket business or home siding business. when you don't have the money you don't go up. when fuel prices are high and drives the dollars out of people's wallets. these people live in a bubble, you know? they don't know what it's like to put the nozzle on the side of the car and fill it up or write a check to pay the electric bill. david: well, hillary hasn't ridden in a car--

or driven in car in ten years and they don't know the most common sense things you deal with every minutes of every day. david, i'm sorry to hear that you don't have the bakery anymore. hope you pre servier. thank you very much. >> i'm the populous, so i can help. david: to the controversy over deleted messages, not hillary clinton, tom brady. the latest on tom brady's settlement talks with the nfl. what e-mails with tom brady? >> well, we're talking about the evidence that mr. brady did know the supply to the nfl, remember, he destroyed his cell phone and that's part of the argument going on. let's boil this down simply, we have the video of mr. brady arriving in court last week. he was not here today, neither was roger goodell. they will be back here on august 31st. we're headed to what appears is going to be the judge making a decision, although there's time for both sides to reach settlement. right now they're far apart. the issue at hand for the nfl

is very simple, that as a matter of law, the commissioner, mr. goodell's, a valuation of the evidence is binding. his decision, the four-game suspension is binding. accord to go the player's union and mr. brady, mr. goodell stepped over his authority and didn't follow the guidelines of the collective bank agreement and the four game suspension. and it could potentially up to the judge who says he will make a decision if he has to by september 4th. as of right now, the lawyers are still meeting with the judge in a private session trying to force some kind of settlement so the judge doesn't have to make a decision. david: adam shapiro. thank you very much. isis is cashing in on artifacts and oil and guess what? western banks may be playing a part.

do you ever wonder where isis gets its money, who gives them money for what they sell? is there any way to dry up its funds. we'll tackle that coming up.

>> another look at oil now. it is continuing to trade at the lowest point since march, 2009. now, it's doing nothing, but getting worse. down to $4.62, that's a full $2 drop from the low level yesterday. the low price of oil, of course, cutting into, among other profits, isis profits. gillian turner, former security staff member, what could be done about isis? well, as low as oil is right now, jillian, forgive me. . >> that's okay. david: it's the mainstay the way that isis is paying its bill.

isis is essentially a country now, controls a large swath of land and pay employees, they have a lot of expenses that comes with running employees and the main way, correct me if i'm wrong, they're doing it by selling oil, right? >> there's really two main sources of revenue for the organization, there's bank theft, that they reappropriate from banks that they capture and oil smuggling. the oil captured from fields and refineries in the same territory and this is happening across iraq and syria and perhaps most profitbly inside the city of mosul. bank money runs out and only so much cash in a safe and you run out of money. oil won't run out for a hundred years or more. i'm wondering to whom they are selling. there's a buyer and trade. you can understand why isis wants to sell it, but who is buying it? >> that's right, really, the only way to curtail or stop

this financing is to target, as you mention, the facilitators, the buyers here. we've got to cut off isis access to international banks and international ports and to answer your question, they're exporting this stuff, crude oil and other types of products from africa and the middle east as well as large parts of europe. it's a rampant problem. david: i understand there are these long carivans of trucks carrying the isis oil, that we can see. if we can see them by satellite, why can't we hit them by drones? >> that's an interesting question and i'm sure that's an option that the counterterrorism unit is looking at. using drones is an effective way to carry out a host of our other strategic objectives. perhaps that's a viable option here. i'm not sure. we'll have to wait and see over time. david: i don't mean to be conspiratorial and i've only

heard drips and drabs of this, and one mentioned was the head of turkey, his son. and our side does not want to disturbing that relationship because we don't want to disturb turkey and other areas. any possibility of that conspiracy going on? >> i think i would leave it in the realm of conspiracy right now in the sense that tracking oil from crude to refineries and to points of sale and beyond is very tricky and it's a long process. it's an arduous process and something that really requires the counterterrorism community to work hand in glove with like the treasury department here in the united states so there's multiple government agencies. i think we're really, for the first time now, starting to get a really good grasp of this. i think it's a little early to point fingers and name names. give it a few months. david: it should come down.

it's the achilles heel. if there's any achilles heel, it's the banks and the people finding the oil. jillian turner. thank you very much for coming from and we appreciate it. >> thank you. david: breaks news, more information on the data leaked from the ashley madison hack. hundreds of e-mail addresses from the obama white house and key federal agencies appear to have been uncovered in a leaked list of clients who use the website that encourages people to cheat on their spouses. you knew this was going to happen. people are going to list this. there are 44 registered e-mails with a whitehouse.gov address. we're not saying it's them. this is what we've found going through the lists and of course, there are hundreds of media organizations doing just as we are. you're going to hear a lot more about the story and what

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david: breaking news, look at this. this is a sinkhole, massive sinkhole on i93 north. the interstate that goes up into new england. this particular location is concord, new hampshire, but right on i93. a sinkhole has opened up. maybe you can lose the lower third on that to see the picture a little better. there you go. it is huge. looks like they blocked off two full lanes. they've only got one lane going. if you were going north on i93, forget about it, folks, you're going to be in traffic for a long time. traffic is moving, you know how that works, three lanes going into one on an interstate and you are in trouble. again, a massive sinkhole in concord, new hampshire. reminds us of another sinkhole with our student loan debt. we're getting news students are taking on more loans anticipating forgiveness from the government. one student telling the "wall street journal," quote, the promise of forgiveness is the only real reason she took on

almost $300,000 in debt. gerri willis with me now on why this is a huge problem? it really annoys you, doesn't it, that these people assume it will be paid off without having to do anything about it? >> they assume for a good reason. the president put in place a program that allows to you pay as you earn. let me tell you what's going on with virginia. she accrued $256,000 worth of debt. paying $330 a month, that's less than the interest on the loan. why? she's paying as she earns. perfectly legal, she's allowed to do it. a government initiative to help people pay off the loans, pay them down, be able to deal with the massive loans and she's not alone. let me tell you. people with 100,000 or more in college debt, 1.8 million americans. 3.8 million are in income based repayment plans, and david, i

got to tell you, we talk about the high cost of tuition, talk about how graduates can borrow almost anything they want to as being real reasons of the price of college education goes up, up, up, the real reason is the forgiveness plans. why not take on more debt? you're not going to have to pay for it. another thing about this woman that you should know, if you work in the public sector or for a not-for-profit, after 20 years, it is forgiven. david: that's the incredible thing, telegraphing the way the president has, he's the one i heard it from. wait 20 years. >> and it's over. david: total irresponsibility. the colleges and universities love it, they're raking it in and raising tuition rates as a result of it. gerri, thank you very much. >> you're most welcome. david: governments promise loan

forgiveness, wayne says it's already a big problem. isn't it? >> yes, it is already a big problem. we have five cities in the state of california that are in bankruptcy or close to bankruptcy right now because of pension plan payments and payments that the politicians just didn't anticipate. david: well, politicians -- what politicians? the person who said this better than anybody is chris christie, the governor of new jersey. i don't agree with him on everything, but when he faced out with the firemen, i don't know if you saw, this he was speaking before a firemen's union, they booed him for five minutes, she stood up and said i know why you don't like me, i'm telling you, you can't have money because we don't have it. what i don't understand why didn't you hate the politicians before me who promise things that they knew they could never deliver on? >> well, the terrible part about this, david, is not so much that they lied and do all

of that thing and try, to you know, to get elected by promising people things they can't deliver. it is that the technical part of this is a city or municipality goes into bankruptcy. they then, there is an argument about who's first, who's going to get the money first? the bond holders have been sold bonds to do things for the city. make improvements for the city, the schools and all of that, and bonds become questionable as to whether they are in first position or in second position. they'll eventually be a point, if they keep putting the pension plans in first position in front of the bond holders, a city will not be able to finance itself to do anything because the bond holders are getting cheated. david: back to the student loans. the same syndrome where politicians are encouraging people to be bad debtors, encouraging people to take out loans they can't afford, to eventually become deadbeats.

>> yes, because they want to get elected, they're describing the public. in 1837, they said when the public officials discovered they can bribe the public with their own money, it's the end of the democracy. so he was absolutely right. david: i hope we haven't come to the end. i think it's reversible, but we're down a big sinkhole. wayne rogers, thank you very much, good to see you again, my friend. donald trump getting heat for plans to deal with illegal immigrants, and rick perry getting heat because he doesn't have a plan. >> people don't work because of illegals that are here taking american jobs. what's your plan to take care of that? >> there are plenty of people working with washington, d.c. when we get into office to deal with that issue. i tell you to get distracted off securing the border is a total fallacy and the wrong thing for us to be doing.

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centurylink. your link to what's next. i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? . >> reporter: i'm dagen mcdowell with the fox business brief. take a look at these markets trying hard to make a comeback ahead of the federal reserve minutes at the top of the hour. the dow was down 229 points at its low. 156 the loss right now. u.s. stocks rocked by turmoil in the chinese market weighing

on markets around the globe. worries about economic weakness knocking oil to lowest price seen in 6 1/2 years. the cost of crude below $41 a barrel for the first time since march 3rd, 2009. energy stocks the worst performing sector. you get exxonmobil, conoco-phillips, chevron among the many hitting 52-week lows. take a look at the flock to safety. gold up $10 an ounce, that's one rare haven today. "coast-to-coast" will be back in a minute.

. david: now donald trump is getting heat for the cost of his plan. reports that the price tag could top 166 billion dollars but could it be worse if nothing is done to fix the problem. to the five's geraldo rivera now on that. so geraldo, it cost $12,500 to deport one immigrant and hundreds of thousands of backlog. it is going to cost a lot. you look how much the illegal immigrant takes in various welfare programs and the figures are enormous. a lot more than what it would cost to deport them. i'm just looking at that balance sheet and thinking geez, it's going to cost more to keep them here than to send them home. >> let's agree to disagree on

the cost per immigrant. i think that's an issue that can be discussed. congressional budget office has one figure. david: don't want to get in the weeds. >> don't want to get in the weeds. several things, first on the wall itself, a physical wall will never work, even in berlin it didn't work until they started shooting and killing the people jumping the wall. we don't contemplate that. the hundreds of billions it can cost can be overcome with hundreds of dollars spent. david: i got to say, people in san diego are very happy with their portion of the wall which they say works wonderfully. rudy giuliani has looked into the dollars and cents, not just donald trump looking at the wall. >> i don't think physical obstacles will stop people. for instance, look at el chapo. i covered the prison escape. david: i know. it can happen in new york as well. >> what i agree with on trump. you mention the cost per

deportation per immigrant. that is a cost that can reasonably be borne by the host country. they came from someplace. mexico knows, if it is in the case of mexico that these people are transitting their national territory or originating from the national territory. i think mexico can have financial responsibility. david: so like trump, you're saying they should pay the bill for this? >> i'm going to go through the things about trump's program i like. i like national responsibility of host countries. david: how can we force them to pay, by the way? >> as you know, as an economist you know there is millions, billions of dollars that come back and forth in terms of national accounts. there is a way that mexico. david: make them pay for the cost of sending folks back. >> or guatemala or nicaragua or wherever that is. i like trump's idea, here we get the cream of the crop to attend penn or harvard or yale

or northwestern or any of the great schools in this country. then when the student visas expire, kick them out, why are we letting the brains go? they want to be here. these are the immigrants everybody can agree we would love to have here. david: i want to cut to one thing, talking about the expense of welfare, it is enormous, the cost of paying for welfare. and 12 years i covered latin america, i know the area well. there are a lot of pregnant women that walk over the border, have kids, so the kid is a citizen, entitled to welfare programs. >> 30,000 a year. david: not only the kid gets but the family gets. i love immigrants, i want immigrants to be here, i want the immigrants who come here to get welfare, why don't we agree to get rid of the welfare but have something we had success with, the bracero program, from 1942-1965. the unions killed it, the workers come in from mexico and

go home after the work is done? >> the bracero program is a good idea. whole notion of vastly increasing the temporary work visa. we have -- for the high end or the low end of the worker. >> as you know for generations we have had an ebb and flow across the mexican border. it was formalized during world war ii when we didn't have the young men to do the tough jobs in the ranches. david: and they were held over until the unions killed it. >> so you have the natural flow. we can memorialize that by vastly expanding the temporary guest worker program right now, according to the "wall street journal" last week. 10% of the crops in california are unpicked because of the labor shortage there, because of the current crackdown by the obama administration on illegals. why not have temporary work visas for these folks. they come in at harvest season, they go home, make it easy. >> the key is that we have to

get people who come here to work, not people on welfare. breaking news, i got to leave it at that. peter barnes, go ahead, peter. peter, you're on, go ahead. okay? >> reporter: peter barnes in washington. we want to report now on the federal reserve minutes from its july meetings. they have just been released. fed memberslisque options open on when to start raising interest rates, according to the minutes from the last policy meeting in july. quote, most judged that the conditions for policy firming had not been achieved but noted that conditions were approaching that point. one of those conditions stronger inflation was not there yet in july. quote, almost all members indicated they would need to see more evident that economic growth was sufficiently strong and labor market conditions firmed enough to feel reasonably confident that the nation would return to the

fed's 2% market. the stock market in china, the minutes saying several participants noted a material slowdown in chinese economic activity could pose risks to the u.s. economic outlook. back to you. >> peter, stay with me for a second here. because the market as you can see has recovered quite a bit since the minutes came out but coming out early. there have been a lot of questions whenever anything is leaked early from the fed, have you questions that can affect billions if not trillions of dollars. peter, can you hear me? no, he can't. the point i was making with peter, i'll make to you folks, there have been occasions where individuals have been prosecuted for insider trading situation where based on the minutes from the fed that were released early, we have had trades made in which people make a lot of money in a very short period of time. it looks like that is being done here by various trades. you can make money when it goes up or when it comes down, and a

lot of trades are being made as a result of these leaked minutes. we will figure out exactly how these minutes will be leaked it. may take weeks to do so. how were the minutes leaked? this is causing a very dramatic change in the markets. i understand peter is mic'ed up now. can hear us. peter barnes, this is precedent setting, the fact that the minutes were released more than ten minutes before they were released to. and as i mentioned billions of dollars have traded hands as a result of those leaked minutes. >> reporter: sorry, david, people are talking to me in my ear. we're trying to figure out the situation here. we get the minutes on embargoed basis, get a chance to read them ahead of the release. they are lengthy, 12 pages long. we do not know exactly what happened. but for some reason someone broke the embargo and we're

looking into it. david: peter, thank you very much. peter is having trouble hearing us. we'll bring in our two guests now as they are being mic'ed. [ laughter ] >> dagen mcdowell and melissa francis, my co-host on the 4:00. let me go to you. >> i don't have a mic yet. david: dagen is miked. this is very interesting, the fact the minutes were leaked. i'm sure we're going to read in the coming days who made money as a result? >> i'm sure there will be investigations how the leak happened, but it was how many minutes before the actual announcement? david: about 15 minutes before the announcement came out, and we saw dramatic change in fortunes on the part of the traders here. the minutes were, and i believe melissa is mic'ed up. >> yeah. david: the minutes were generally favorable to the notion of keeping things as they are, no rate hike in september? >> david, obviously, we have heard a lot of debate across

the network, is there enough information to pause the coming rate hike? it had been almost certain people talk about one maybe two before the end of the year. the data has gotten so much choppier, people wondering aloud, i heard charles payne talk about it, is there enough for the fed not to raise rates? if you look at numbers before they're supposed to be out, almost explosive talk about the data out of china, has the spillover from china, is it cause for concern? it looks like in the language there is cover for them to perhaps not raise. david: hold on, hold on, we got to mention that there is news in the minutes about china, but these minutes were from before the chinese devaluation. so it makes it even more likely that they would be wary of raising rates in light of the devaluation. >> here are the headlines. david: if they were this negative towards a rate hike before the devaluation, they would be more negative towards

a rate hike now. >> headlines, dow jones fed officials saw conditions for liftoff not yet achieved but approaching that point. one member was ready to raise rates but willing to wait for additional data. the data in the consumer price index today, what's coming out of china, have you other deflationary concerns. david: right. >> let me finish my thought quickly. have you above and beyond, the voting member in the fomc in the "wall street journal" saying do not raise interest rates. david: we have a fox business anchor who talked to one of the guys who controlled the fed for a while. trish regan. first, the extraordinary events that happened over the past ten minutes with the release of this thing before the embargo, i'm sure there are a million different speculations about what happened, but clearly people traded on the basis of this information. we're still seven minutes away from when it was supposed to

come out. >> david, this is very, very serious stuff. you know about the lockup, you know how it's embargoed. not supposed to get out there. we know people have access to it, and someone obviously violated that trust, violated that embargo and consequently people stood to make a lot of money, and frankly people may have lost a lot of money as well. people trade on the new, go on the trading floor any time economic data is released, especially surrounding the fed, you will find everybody is on pins and needles, waiting to find out what is in these minutes. waiting to find out what a particular data point is and they have money at stake in all of this. a lot of people anticipated this, of course, would be more of the status quo that we wouldn't hear any indication necessarily from the fed that they were going to move aggressively in september. that's what's being talked about. that's the chatter in the marketplace, one thing to have the chatter and have the news in your hands that you can act

upon. david: we have seen before, hedge funds that pride themselves with information in washington. the beltway, as the government has gotten more involved in the economy, particularly since the recession, information from inside the beltway has become more important for traders. we've seen that happen before. one organization, i can't remember the name of the hedge fund. they had inside information on what was happening in the fed that caused them to get in trouble with regulators. i suspect it's likely we're going to see investigations like that for what happened just now, don't you? >> absolutely. the rules have gone the tighter. if you look at media around it when things are released and the lockdown room that people like our own peter barnes go into before this, the rules have gotten even stricter because it is worth so much money and it is so valuable and people trade on it. this, without question, everyone will want to know in washington and beyond and in wall street how this happened? what went on? as we see it out, there the

headlines that are going across to break it down, it makes it more likely that a rate hike could be further off. >> this is not one on the par of a leaked jobs report which would be an incredible market mover or if it came out ahead of time. number one. number two, because there is so much data since the meeting, the market digested. bad news, it would keep the fed on hold. the markets did not bounce back that much. oil is still below $41 a barrel and the markets have given a comeback slightly, but not much. david: that's true. but they have come back and it was unprecedented. we have more after this.

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still down 4 1/2%. it looks like the news is taken out of the bad numbers and hasn't allowed it to take the coverage. the dow, oil is still down almost 5%. trish regan is here with interesting things to talk abo about. >> and a stunning development, everyone, and minutes of latest policy meeting. they were leaked ahead of schedule. according to the minutes, the conditions are such that we may be in store for a rate hike this year, but here is the thing, the embargo was broken. money was on the line and people are trading on this information and this is serious stuff. we've got team coverage for you, 145 on the dow and s&p trading down 16 points now.