let's not forget that. that is our show, see you next week. ♪ ♪ >> tomorrow, lunches for your kids under two bucks. stay tuned for more found wandering. >> have a great day. see ya. whew. another wild week with wild swings on wall street. the dow dropping more than 1,000 points monday morning. all three indices rebounding and managing to end the week in the green. now presidential candidate bernie sanders blaming all this market mess on wall street greed. but some here say he's wrong. so who's right? hi, everyone. i'm brenda buttner. this is "bulls & bears." and here they are. gary b. smith, jonas max ferris, john layfield along with gary and emily tisch sussman.

bernie sanders saying wall street greed is to blame. do you agree? >> i don't. i think it all -- if you look at the root cause going back to the financial crisis that we had it was the fed flooding the markets with the easy money. now, did banks and mortgage companies and, you know, the like do some unscrupulous things? of course. but why could they do it? because you had all this money flowing like water through the markets. it's funny, brenda, people don't point back at the fed and the government for creating the situation of this, quote, unquote, greed, and they really shouldn't. >> good point. markets go up, markets go down, the markets go down, it's wall street greed, when they go up, is it the same thing? >> i think bernie sanders has tapped into something, some populism, and people are feeling like for the last couple years

they understand intellectually that the recession is over. but it really has been two recoveries, right? wall street has recovered, big corporations have recovered with record profits. people do not feel it in their pockets. people are thinking is this a stock bubble? over the past week people are thinking maybe it has been. >> john, a lot of people would agree with that. there are a lot of reasons. there's china has had problems, the global economy is shrinking, of course the fed printing money, all that stuff. but somebody with a 401(k) who has money in this market, can they say it's all those big money guys on wall street who are making my stocks go down? >> no, they can't. i don't think people are saying this is a stock market bubble. china is going from 7% growth to 5% growth, a 30% haircut of the gdp of the world's second biggest economy. that has most to do with it. bernie sanders striking a chord,

che vergara struck a chord too. to blame wall street is absolutely insane. it's a populist message, let's blame the rich guys on wall street for doing this when the government created this scenario that caused the entire housing bubble, the fed through low interest rates -- look, we've divided our currency for years. china is just responding. we're devaluing by printing so much money. you talk about seniors and 401(k)s. there's no yield right now because the fed has interest rates at zero. that's why the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. it's been going on since about 2000 and is just continuing. >> brenda? >> yes. >> i got to throw my hat in here on bern ji saie sanders because september 8th, 1941, bernie sanders was born, the dow was at 127 that day. during the time up to today, it went up to 18,300 before this latest nausea. during that time, wall street and the markets have created

trillions of dollars of wealth, tens of millions of jobs, taken people out of poverty into the middle class and from the middle class into the wealth class. bernie sanders has not created one dime of wealth while the market have done the job. my message to him is there's a certain country 1,700 miles south of where i'm sitting called venezuela that's being run by socialists and being destroyed. that's my message. >> jonas, john made a good point with cuba and gary k. with venezuela. let's look at america. basically wall street is to build companies and enable people to buy some equity, some part of that company. is that greed? is that a problem? >> well, it is greed. but, look, bernie made some points that are sort of in a weird way to a certain audience. rich people caused the crash monday, okay? it's not poor people. you have to have stocks to sell. it was an excess of sell orders

that tanked the market. other rich people came in later in the week and bought back. bernie doesn't want to end wall street. socialist have their own stock indexes, have investment bankers. they know that wall street's a golden goose that makes the whole country ride. if you put it out of its misery like communist regimes do, that's where you have a problem where everybody gets poor. if he wants to play social, that's fine, but he's talking communists, which is what happened in cuba and communist russia. >> emily, what do you say? >> that was an excellent point. he's not the average american and it is not poor americans playing in the stock market. 90% of americans only have about 20% of the stocks. it is really a very small percentage of the population that is playing around here. >> well, but gary k., actually, pretty high percentage of americans do own stock even though they don't own a huge percentage of the stock market. they have a stake here.

they're buying and selling a well. >> americans have a ton of stock in their 401(k)s and their i.r.a. s and their regular accounts. you can't have it both bayways. if blame the rich people for the dow you have to blame the rich people for 6,000 on the dow in 2009 to where it is now. if you want to blame anybody, blame ben bernanke for policy. they need to back away if anybody need to. >> he was the head of the fed and there's been many year where is the fed has eventually been printing money. that's what you've been talking about, gary b., right? >> exactly. look, the fed has become more and more involved and more and more political and it's made these market gyrations bigger and bigger. you're starting to see the volatility really affect the average american. but, you know, on the flip side,

i want to get back to this point that john made. the typical wall streeter out there is a guy managing a large mutual fund, not the hedge fund guys. though are a very small part of wall street. a fund like a fidelity magellan where 50% of americans are invested in the stock market. so if i'm running fidelity magellan and i buy ibm or ge, i want to make money for my shareholders, the, quote, unquote, little guy out there. i don't see what bernie sanders says about wall street greed. it's a guy doing his job that wants to make everyone else invest in the fund richer. that's 50% of the americans out there. how the heck is that greed? >> hold on. i'll give emily a chance to respond. go ahead. >> that is the most altruistic categorization of wall street i've ever heard. >> how is it wrong? aren't they paid on performance? why would i try to stick it to the little guy when he's investing in my fund through a

401(k) or directly? >> i hope they are thinking of the little guy. >> they're thinking about their returns. they want to make money. that's how they make money. >> exactly. >> let us not forget it is wall street and the markets that also spawn the companies like microsoft and dell and amgen and biogen that had great technology, that move this country forward. medical breakthroughs brought the country forward and made a ton of money for everyone, including the employees of these companies, whether it's the secretary on up to the ceo. >> john? >> this is a ridiculous argument. why are we hating people because they're successful? do i hate floyd mayweather for making hundreds of millions of dollars for a fight? goodness no. if john paulson makes a billions of dollars, a hedge fund manager, does that affect me? absolutely not. if he loses billions, does that affect the average worker anywhere in america? absolutely not. you're blaming the rich people for being successful. when you think about what happened after the financial

crisis, you put so much regulation on banks that about $2 trillion of credit came out of the markets. that affects the average person out there. whether these people on wall street make money or not, you can hate them all they want. i don't think that bovters them. but it's taking away from the point which is what bernie sanders is trying to do, that government intervention hatz hurt us. >> in its simplest form, it's a lie bernie sanders is trying to put on the public at this time. it is not true. >> that's the last word. thanks, guys. dagen is in for neil this week. what have you got? >> hey, brenda. trump warned us about hitching our wagon to china, and so is this china-driven market mess proving him right? plus, we just got the price tag for that iran nuclear deal. and guess who might be picking up the tab? see you at the bottom of the hour. >> you will. we can't wait. up here first, is another ruling in favor of big labor about

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hand apparently, they also lovee stickers.ing. what's up with these things, victor? we decided to give ourselves stickers for each feature we release. we read about 10,000 suggestions a week to create features that as traders we'd want to use, like social signals, a tool that uses social media to help with research. 10,000 suggestions. who reads all those? he does. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this. eastern for my show "america's news headquarters." see you then. the president's labor board issuing a ruling that could be a game changer for jobs. and john says it's not a good one. explain, sir. >> the nlrb decided to deal with franchises, that you could unionize on that level and go to the corporate headquarters. i'm not a fan of either party, but the unions support democrats so democrats support unions. this was a 100% partisan vote at

the nlrb so, if i own a franchise in sweetwater, texas, a kentucky fried chicken, my employees can go to the headquarters of kfc and demand -- they've unionized -- and demand a wage increase. despite the fact headquarters has no idea about my market, it's my mom and pop, they dictate to me the wages. in converse, you can also be held responsible for your franchisees, which the headquarters have no control over. these aren't your ceos trying to buy a third home. these are your mom and pop stores now that are going to be pushed back to the corporate headquarters. all it is is a union grab. >> emily, you this is a good thing. why? >> i do. i think it's more simple than that. i think these are large corporations that to their franchisees they dictate qualifications for hiring, they dictate shift schedules, they dictate how they input all of that information, and now the employee can start to about like the corporate is their employer. they've been acting like their

employer. now the employee can start to deal with them like they are employer. >> but gary b., they don't pay them, they don't supervise them, they don't understand the market necessarily. as john said, these are small businesses, and unions are getting in on it. >> exactly. you know, what i love about the liberals, the word liberal, they sure like a lot of rules. they like to really control things. but, you know, the bottom line, brenda, for me is when you start to become unionized, what happens? the wages go up. what happens when the wages go up? we've seen in seattle in the restaurant industry, when their wages went to $11 an hour starting in april they saw the largest decrease in restaurant employment since the recession. where all the areas outside seattle by the way were increasing restaurant workers. i would challenge anyone that left, the point of these industries where unionization has increased these jobs. i can point to a lot where it's

decreased jobs -- steel, auto, texti textile, airlines. about the only one you see unions increasing jobs is where they have a monopoly and that's in government. >> do you want to answer that, emily? >> first of all, this ruling does not actually say that the franchisee should be unionizing. it opens the door to it so the employees can start to deal with the corporation as employer. >> what industries can have we seen jobs increasing when the union got involved? >> let the market dictate it. if they don't want to union size they don't have to. the way the rule has been operating at the point is they try to unionize the corporation can cut off the franchise without any recourse. >> all right. didn't answer my question, but that's okay. >> i will. >> go ahead, jonas. >> sports and hollywood. this is why a higher federal minimum wage is the option to raise the wage base for workers than have unions negotiate. that is a lousier output thing.

companies take advantage of temp agencies. that is why they've been growing for 30 years in this country to avoid rules put on them when insurance have to provide wages, et cetera. it would be great in theory, everyone would get a higher wage, it will be like the batteries that are recycled in america. they go to mexico because the rules are strict now, there are no rules in mexico and until a recycling case, they ool move that to mexico and the world will get more polluted than if it was done here. they need to raise the level of all workers in the world not just here because they're pushing the jobs to worse places. >> i have to get to gary. >> here's the problem. you are trying to change something that has been working for years, and that is the independence of franchisees. and it is not true that it's so coordinated to headquarters. ask any franchisee out there that has five stores or five restaurants. they have their own way of doing things, their own hours, a different amount of employees because different locations make different things that are needed.

so that's crazy that they're doing this. it continues to be government taking a bat and bashing business over the head for i don't know what reason. >> and, john, just to end with you, you think this is going to backfire and hurt jobs? >> absolutely, because it's hard -- >> of course. >> talking about the national minimum wage. you can't put a national minimum wage on a regional level. you can't compare biloxi, mississippi, and the cost of living there to new york or silicon valley. that's why it need to be done by region. >> thanks, guys. "cashin' in" just over an hour from now. eric, what do you have coming pup. >> hi, brenda. violence in the workplace, a mad man murdering two former co-workers on live tv. what can companies do to keep you safe at your job? plus the father of a hero who stopped a terror attack calling the enemy what it is and blasting the d.c. pc ways. we debate, you decide. wash wash. see you at 11:30. >> and we watch. thanks, eric. up first, twitter and f

facebook taking

the senseless killings were so disturbing and so horrific. then the killer started tweeting and posting on facebook about shooting those two journalists on live tv. within minutes of those posts the social media company shut down his accounts. and gary k., you say they need to shut down more bad guys like

terrorists. >> well, look, leave no doubt that the bad guys are proliferating on the internet as well as social media, recruiting and growing. i have to tell you if i'm president of this country, the first thing i'm doing is calling zucker burg and whoever's running twitter and these other social media companies, bringing them in and asking how can you help me and this country, because they can get the job done. they see it on a daily basis. >> gary b., you're no fan of having government get into private business. is this a different case? >> exactly. for the same exact reason it gives government a lot of power to start to decide what's good and what's bad for us. let's stipulate that this is vile, the video should not have been up there, but it's not for twitter or facebook or any of those people to decide or that can decide. but they shouldn't be forced to decide. they should do what is best for the company and best for their consumers.

if twitter has 20 million users and 17 million don't like it, they should do it. but don't put them in a position of having to be the government and monitor what's going on. >> emily? >> that is the challenge. if you decide you're going to make a rule about what comes down immediately, then some things get judged as good and some get judged as bad. there has to be a hard line and they have to make that decision. it's a very hard decision for government to be involved with. i think it's more of a cultural problem that so many looking to perp rate aboetrate acts of vioo social media. it's revolting. >> the genie is out of the bottle. once it hits facebook, this video can -- you know, anybody can see it even if they shut down the accounts. i think there's a medium here. this was a horrible event. this should have been taken down. you see something done by isis, obviously that should be taken down. once you get past that, what farry b. is talking about, it's

a slippery slope. the arab spring, some considered them freedom fighters, some considered them terrorists. nelson mandela, the same thing. i don't want a social media company deciding my morality for something like that. but in the hard cases like this, i think it's simple. take this stuff down. >> jonas, what do you think? >> i kind of agree with thee points. the graphic stuff should be removed or censored. just the -- that's for the government to decide who the terrorists are. i will say broadly for regular media, we have to stop turning people into celebrities. i think that plays a role in all this. social media gives everybody a chance to be a celebrity, eventually weather look what i did. there has to be a way to remove their names and images somehow from the internet. i know it's difficult to do. that's i think where you'll get an edge with these people including the terrorists. >> thanks, guys. thank you, emily, for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. cars lining up in florida trying to fill up before erika

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predictions. gary b. >> i learned one thing this week, i can't live without the internet. verizon up 20%. >> yon? >> wall greeps, i think it's a stock to hold the next four to five years. 20% up in the next year. i own it. >> gary k.some. >> hopefully the storm doesn't

hit here but regardless, gas prices are going to be up 20 to 40 cents in the next couple weeks as oil prices spiked in the last week. >> jonas? >> the inhibitor works so well have to have a good diet. krispy kreme. >> i want them, jonas. dagen, take it away. >> if we don't get smart quickly, china will destroy our country. i don't want from china, but you almost have to buy from china. it's ridiculous. china is draining our wealth. the chinese do not respect us. one thing i can tell you, china won't be ripping us, japan won't be ripping us, mexico will not be ripping off this country like they're doing right now. >> donald trump repeatedly warning america about being tied to china. now that we're seeing worries about china wreaking havoc on our markets, is he right? hi, everybody. i'm