>> charles, you like this? >> i like -- you shaky now? >> i agree with ben. don't be afraid long-term. >> all right. ben and charles on the same page. that warrants a fox news alert. the cost of freedom now. we're here to make sure that a change is made so nobody has to endure pain tt my m a da and iohrou on aaily bas. theailu tespo and make any changes says to me that what was done to kate was okay, that she was collateral damage. >> wow. brother of kate steinle, announcing his family will sue san francisco sheriff and others over the death of his sister. kate's accused killer is an illegal immigrant with a long rap sheet who was released back in the streets.

will her force sanctuary cities to enforce our immigration laws? hi, everybody. welcome to "forbes on fox." let's go in focus to find out what steve forbes, rich, sabrina, carrie, john, and mark. sabrina, is this a way to force sanctuary cities to obey the law? >>. >> i think it might be. it's a way to remind people that the state law might not like to admit that, but that's the case. what's really interesting is that a new -- your survey research out of uc befshgly shts not the home of conservatism show that there is widespread opposition to these saipg wear cities that crosses political lindz, it crosses ethnic lines. >> her brother makes a powerful point. >> this is a tragic situation, but this is another example of what is happening in court and

also what's happening in congress to essentially criminalize immigration. this is a civil matter. we need to tighten up on some of the holes in immigration, but we should not basically fall into the trap that all immigrants are criminals. there is an element in congress that would like us to believe that because somebody is in the country illegally, they are criminal. >> the politicians are diterring on kate's law. politicians are not going to solve it, but maybe the victims can. >> david, we're either a sovereign nation or not. sanctuary cities, the whole concept flouts the idea of being a sovereign nation. i, for example, would love to have sanctuary cities where you could go in you didn't pay any federal income tax and not -- and escape the long arm of the

fed. you cannot do that. >> the fact is that this is one way to deal with the problem sanctuary cities that are not obeying federal law. is it a good idea or bad idea? >> i think it's a bad whered. what happened was a tragedy. let's not federalize it in a way that's not going make us less safe. what happened was a criminal act. it had nothing to do with immigration or sanctuary cities. to make it something it's not is a distraction. >> well, steve, the brother of kate -- >> the brother of kate and a lot of other people think it has a lot to do with sanctuary cities where criminals, hardened criminals, are let go because of the sympathy of the sanctuary cities. >> this does get down to policing. not only for illegal immigrants, but also for all citizens. you have a lousy law enforcement attitude, are you going to get this kind of tragedy. it means enforcing the law. it means keeping people in jail who should be kept in jail. also, i think it will be a spur to finally get real immigration reform with the next president.

not with this one, sadly. >> it's not just california. there are plenty of examples there for the past four years, 168,000 criminal aliens have been booked into local texas jails accused of 917 homicide charges, 4739 sexual assault charges, a lot of these people were let out because of the sanctuary cities there. >> right. that's what i don't understand. there should be a basic level of human rights that we in this country as taxpayers, as people -- as members of the sovereign country, that we deserve protection. the very basic -- forget about education for children, whatever. we're talking about criminals. criminals.

>> yes, but it should be a local matter. it should not be a federal matter. sanctuary cities exist i think we're damning sanctuary cities. >> sabrina, hold on. we have -- sabrina, we have federal laws about immigration. those federal laws are being flouted by the sanctuary cities. that has to stop. i sympathize with what mark was satisfying earlier and that i agree that a lot of the sanctuary satisfies cities and immigration gets wrapped up with some very uncomfortable rhetoric that certainly makes me worry. i think as we've said before on

this show, we want to change the immigration laws and not sort of point fingers at immigrants, per se. >> i don't have to abide by this law. it's simply the way it is. >> rich, the point is this is not about immigrants. this is about criminals, and criminals are getting away with murder. >> yes, but it's also about sanctuary cities. it does have the power. even if you take the most minimalist constitution interpretation of what the federal government should do, you know, protecting the sovereignty of the country is one of the things it should do. if you have paning wear cities, you can flout the law in any number of ways. >> mark, you're not suggesting that the steinles should be unable to sue the city, are you? >> no, i think they should be allowed to sue the city, but i

think we're mixing up criminal behavior with civil behavior here, and there's an effort -- >> hold on a second. there's no mixing up. there's no mixing up at all. n what the guy who killed -- in what the guy who killed kate steinle did. that was criminal behavior. >> criminalize all immigrant behavior. >> that's the point. >> it's going take a civil suit, and you see disproportion alty. kentucky lesching won't approve a supreme court stigs. she's going off to jail. mayor deez few the federal law. nothing happens. >> carrie. >> exactly. it's the same with this administration. if this administration -- we have to make this a federal point. i disagree with john. it's stet and state levels are not enforcing the basic human

rights that we deserve as citizens in this country, then the federal government should absolutely get involved. >> yon. >> sabrina, you want to stop crime where you find it, and a lot of illegal immigrants, because of sanctuary laws, are getting away with murder, sabrina. >> right. i mean, there's a lot of issues here, and i understand john's point that we want to look at the issue. criminals, not immigration -- not immigrants, but there's many, many, many very good immigrants who are adding tremendous amounts of value to this country, but the sanctuary cities are, you know, creating an opportunity for crime that we need to stop. >> nobody should get a pass whether they're an immigrant or a citizen. that's the bottom line. coming up next, billionaire candidate donald trump showing his rivals how to run a

successful campaign on the cheap. and maybe also showing why we don't need all those campaign finance laws. large.

i'm uma. now back to "forbes on fox." >> what a week. donald trump taking to social media this week to quickly counter attack jeb bush's attack ad against him on social media. trump and others using the virtually free virtual immediate wrum to get their message out. while no one seems to do it better than the donald, steve, is this another reason why we don't need campaign finance laws? >> well, campaign finance laws shouldn't be there anyway, whether you have social media or not. social media is replacing traditional press releases. people watch social media. they don't read press releases, and donald recognized that before the others. even if you didn't have social media, you'll still have to use polls and other traditional things, newspapers and the like if you are going to wage a long national campaign. as for laws, david, they have about the same affect as kleenex stopping the flow of the

mississippi river. get rid of them. >> i get the point. that's a good visual image. mark, isn't it ironic, mark, that the candidates with the most amount of money right now, hillary and bush, are going down the fastest. it's not helping them. >> it doesn't cost any money. >> it -- >> social media doesn't cost a dime. >> we're hiring firms who are hiring firms that are putting this stuff out. >> it is money these candidates are spending in social media is nothing. nothing compared to the ads that you have to put on television. >> they can all pay for the social media. we can't blame it on one. the main point here that steve gets at is that we shouldn't have laws on campaign finance.

because politicians can only get 2,000 from each donation from big names, they're spending lots of time for rich people whereas if they didn't have the limits they could spend more time with voters. >> that's true. rich, the fact is that the laws are meant to keep big money out of politics and they haven't worked. since mccain, fine, and gold. that was the big law that was supposed to stop big money in politics. look what's happened since then? a lot more money has gone in mrikdz. since that law was put into lace. >>. >> a, i think that's fine. b, i think everybody should know that's the fact. >> just put the information out there and let the voters decide.

>> i'm -- i agree. rich is right. we need to have transparency. look, in the grand scheme of things, americans spend more on chewing gum than on running our national system for the most powerful country in the world. put that in perspective. let's talk about the fact that bernie sanders, socialist, benefits from free social media. he is the one whining about money, but social media makes him relevant against hillary clinton who is a multimillionaire. despite what she says about being dead broke. >> what i love is the irony of the richest guy in the race, donald trump, who has billions of dollars, spending almost nothing and getting huge amount of traction with those social media ads. >>. >> first of all, i think john said it perfectly. couldn't have said it better. you're right. there are a lot of people that will jump on that and say we don't need money in politics. look what donald trump could do. i couldn't disagree more. for starters, it's a bare bones, we have no real evidence about the impact that social media is having on get out the vote efforts. there's going to be a lot of

studies done this season, but we don't fn there's an impact, and it doesn't really matter. >> look at the impact that mccain fine gold. it was meant to kept people -- all the big money out of politics. it hasn't worked. we've gone in exactly the opposite direction. yes, we have. >> we no longer have a democratic system. the 400 richest people -- no, we're not. 50%, 50% of the money for the republican and the democratic candidates up now on the slate have been given by the 400 richest americans. who will get the response? >> hold on a second. >> steve forbes, the fact is bernie sanders, who is a

socialist according to mark, is getting tremendous traction without using a lot of money by using social media. >> well, that's true. and in terms of people wanting, again, to give contributions, you are going to need as this campaign progresses social media will not cut it alone. you are going to need operatives on the ground to get out the vote. you have to get your message out in various ways to all kinds of people. so you need the resources to do it. make it open. people have always given to politics. going back 200 years. >> and there are two things again coming up with more laws, campaign finance laws. one is the current laws aren't working, and, two, social media is working and that can cost a lot of money. >> let's talk about eric cantor. he is out of office thanks to social media. let's talk about candidates who spent millions of dollars. carly fiorina spent a lot of money. meg whitman. just because you spend a lot of money doesn't mean you're going to win. >> i couldn't agree more with care where i. i was going to say sometimes the

candidates are the most money are the ones that are overhandled and mess things up the most. let's see how things turn out. >> all right. last word. sabrina, the cashin in gang getting ready to roll at the bottom of the hour. >> cops under attack from violence to violent rhetoric, and now falling police recrueltiment numbers. dangerous and costly trend in america. plus, we're hitting the streets labor day weekend. what do americans really think about raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour? find out at 11:30. >> eric, thank you. we will be watching. up here first, the fight is not over. a judge may have sacked tom brady's. >> and the costly fight for the fans o you totalled your brand new car.

nobody's hurt,but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. new car replacement is just one of the features that come standard with a base liberty mutual policy. and for drivers with accident forgiveness,rates won't go up due to your first accident. learn more by calling switch to liberty mutual and you can save up to $509. for a free quote today,call liberty mutual insurance at

see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. >> folks, brady -- -- >> now the nfl is appealing. it's already caused big problems. someone gets that. who? >> i don't think he needs to get

fired. he is in this private club. attacking status. they should be able to decide the discipline spshgs this sets a troubling precedence where he can name whatever he wants to do. >> what do you think? >> well, roger goodell, needlessly embarrassed the league over an amount of error that would blow out birthday candles. it was a big black eye in the nfl. he works for the owners. if they want to keep him, they should be able on keep him. >> well, steve, the decision is varied depend whoing you ask. jim gray is putting his finger on goodell as well as mark is. let's play a soundbyte from that. >> tom brady said he had nothing to do with it. he has been proven right. there is no definitive evidence that the league participated in a sting operation, a smear campaign with misinformation. >> so if it was a smear campaign, shouldn't goodell be fired? >> if it was a smear campaign, he should be fired. that hasn't been proven yet. those missing emails, i mean, sounds like hillary clinton is involved in this thing.

let the owners decide. >> well, sabrina, goodell does have a history in suspensions being overturned or reduced on appeal. his track record isn't that good on this. zoog i have to admit, i'm not a huge football, you know, sort of expert here, but i have apparently -- >> i can't imagine the amount of time you spent talking about it. there are serious issues going on within the nfl. most notably that of violence against women. >> well, the point is, rich, i think at the very least maybe goodell should drop the appeal because it's not just they're playing games. >> yeah. really interesting shakespearean drama here because goodell was the proet yea of alpha owner robert craft and the new england patriots, and now they hate each other's guts, so i don't think goodell is going to laugh. >> last word. coming up, just in time for labor day. labor day. the stocks are you get a cold. you can't breathe through your nose. labor day. the stocks are

suddenly, you're a mouthbreather. well, just put on a breathe right strip which instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone. shut your mouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. breathe right

>> tuesday after the long holiday week it's going to be an important day. which stocks will work for you? bo janingles. why do you like it? >> i the nation's best fried chicken chain, and it's in expansion mode. >> we all love fried chicken. do you like the stock? >> i'm hungry just thinking about it. what i like about chicken is it's universally loved. there are international opportunities. >> we all know about apple, but it got high. where do you like it now? >> it's down to a modest 14 pe ratio. it still has $200 billion in cash. still the number one brand in the world. it's loved by its customers. >> john, do you like apple? sfli love apple, but i'm worried

about it without steve jobs. >> that's ru. steve is no longer there. that's it for "forbes on fox. thank you for watching, everybody. have a great holiday weekend. keep it right here. the income one business block continues with eric and cashin in. >> sure looks like a war on cops is eripting in america. another officer murdered on the job this week. this time in illinois. in pennsylvania a female officer assaulted and then thrown over an embankment, and if it's not violence, it's violent rhetoric, and social media messages suggesting cops might deserve it. this in ferguson, missouri, a picture of a roasted pig wearing a top hat and officer darren wilson's name on it. how can the brave men and women we pray to protect us do their job if they're under attack? hi