biogen. >> that could help. ben. >> just simple diamonds. always love indexes. diamonds are great. >> think of the -- what's the most -- fwloo well, the one i have used the least, i can't talk about. >> you can be friends with people that you don't agree with on everything. i mean, we have to restore a degree of civility. >> that's jeb bush saying we need more civility in the race. >> which one will get washington working for us? civility or competence? welcome to forbes on fox.

>> john, do we need more civility or competence inside the beltway? >> well, i want the competence, and i want these guys constantly at each other's throats. when politicians are working in harmony, that means that we see our freedoms reduced, and we see the size of government grow in ways that zap the economy's vitally. this notion of bipartisanship is a good thing. it's vastly overrated. gridlock equals growth. >> civility in d.c. or competence? which is more important? >> i would say civility because when you have the situations -- some of these guys don't even go out for drinks or dinner with each other anymore, and so they're not getting anything done. either good or bad. you know, alcohol is the root of -- >> according to bruce, we're all going to get drunk with each

other. >>. >> it's 5:00 somewhere in the world. >> you know, listen. even the founding fathers were known for their verbal savagery. george washington was called a treacherous hypocrite. they were courageous. they were brave. they didn't back down. they stood up for what was right. >> the lack of civility is tremendously concerning now. i don't knowing there's ever been a golden age of political stability. there's plenty of hostility in congress, and all sorts of things. the reality is that we do need people to get along. this is not a one-party town. i don't think we want that bipartisanship that you are

upset about, but i think we need to be able to come together on important issues. >> i'm so glad sabrina brought up caning in congress because i want to do a whole segment on that at some point. what about the issue of competence? let's be specific here. donald trump, for example, calls out carly fiorina and said she was incompetent when she was heading hewlett-packard and that the stock value went down about 50% during her tenure. then it went up after she left, which is true, by the way. what about that charge? >> well, look, board member tom perkins wrote a letter in carly's defense, so, you know, and he was there sitting right -- had a front row to the whole thing. i think we need competence. cap wineberger and george schultz in reagan's administration used to argue behind closed doors all the time. they hashed it out. >> all right. >> well, steve, i personally prefer trump's call for competence, but, you know, he calls out carly fiorina.

now, we should mention not all of the companies that have the name trump on it are his, and he personally never went bankrupt, but a lot of the companies with trump in the name did. >> well, they did, and the fact of the matter is reagan showed you can have civility and competence. they're not mutually exclusive. he got big things done. even though he was nice about it. stock prices of all high end companies crashed during that period of time, and some have never come back leak stock prices like cisco, even though the companies were owned. >> john, i love it that we have a lot of nonprofessional politicians running in this race. none of them were professional politicians, but there are a lot of politicians. let's take one of them. governor christie, for example. right now he is not doing so well in the polls. he has an unfavorable rating of 59%. is that how we somewhere the competence of the governors running? >> oh, i think it's hard to say

that. let's face it. there's probably a lot that goes into the popularity, but what i think needs to be stressed is the competence in government leads to much bigger government, and that leads to incompetent outcomes. not that all politicians are bad, but because they're not disciplined by the marketplace. >> can people do the job? clearly to get to the point where she became a ceo, she had to have some competence. the same with hillary clinton. to get to the point that she became the secretary of state she had to have a level of competence. what have these people done? that's what i would -- >> that's a good point. i would say that you look at what people have done and you look at the outcome, you look, for example, in hillary's case about the way the world is working, she was secretary of

state. that was her job to get the world working better. most people would say it's not working better right now. >> i don't think anybody can make the world work better. one person, right? here what were the -- >> they can screw it up a lot. >> what are the foreign politics? coming back home, though, we have a government now, federal, state, and local, more than 20 million people work for government. federal, state spshgs local. when we have only, what, 11 million, 12 million people working in manufacturing jobs. people in government somehow think we work for them and they have a monopoly to our wallets. they are not making policies that will lead to prosperity in this country. that needs to be the mindset for the future. >> although, sabrina, i mean, they don't call them gfz for nothing. they call governors governors because they govern. that's their swrob is to govern, and sometimes they do a bad job, and sometimes they do a good job. i mentioned christie. let's look at another governor. john kasic from ohio. he has a big approval rating. 61%.

it appears that they like -- the people of ohio like the way he is governing. >> well, i think it's a number of factors that go into those approval ratings. a lot of it has to do with his connecting with the different individuals, and i think that sometimes competency is a segment naul to people that you are actually a good person or that you are able -- you have a grasp of the issues or that you have a sort of consistent ideology. that's why a lot of people like carly fiorina right now. it's fair to look at her record at hewlett-packard, but i think the way she tackled this race, the way she's addressed certain issues that other candidates have not, that makes her appear competent. it's something that people are attracted to. >> i got to say about carly, it may be true that the stock went down under her tenure, but, remember, she started as a secretary. work your way up from secretary to ceo of a company it's a hefl an accomplishment. >> she also held a full-time job and paid her way through stanford, which is a very expensive university. i have great admiration for carly. i she kasich is the most

competent politician in the bunch. i think if trump could draw a lesson from reaganan, he had a much angrier persona in the 1950s and 1960s when he was doing all of these commercials and statements, but then he grew -- you know, he became this much warmer character. trump needs to move in that direction, and i think he could be very powerful. >> steve, that seems to be the bottom line of this conversation. we have cut to an end point, which is that you might be able to combine the two and ronald reagan, if i'm looking for an example, is one of those examples where he was a decent guy. everybody liked him, but at the same time he got a lot of competence in the way he governed. >> there's a third part of it. sense of responsibility. he and tip o'neil, speak are of the house at the time didn't much like each other, but they felt they had to get things done, so they had tax shelters and cut the top income tax rate from 50% down to 28 and passed the senate 97-3. responsibility can be civil and

get big things done. >> coming up next, murder on the rise in major cities all over america. it's not just threatening lives. why our economy may also be at risk. you don't want to miss this coming up. more forbes on fox.

another innocent american caught in the crossfire. this time in new york city. kerry, a top aide to new york governor andrew cuomo was shot in the head by a stray bullet during a suspected gang fight earlier in the week. it comes as shootings and homicides are on the rise in several major cities. steve, this is not just the big cities, by the way. this is a lot of small cities all over the country that are involved and had seen these enormous jumps in homicide rates. this could affect our economy as well as our lives. >> yes. we saw this in the 1970s, david. this war on police when you didn't have a sense of safety, economies don't thrive. the first task of government is

security from our enemies outside, and from criminals within our borders. the government has not been able to do that or doing it less and less because of this war on police. the former commissioner, police commissioner under michael bloomberg has come out with a searing tough quote about how new york is backsliding because we're not doing what worked in the 1990s and early 2000s. >> we see cities like milwaukee, st. louis, houston, huge number of cities seeing these jumps in homicide. it is a war against police? >> i think when you have is a situation. wron if it is a war against police. we have issues going on in this country, including the mental health crisis. in the 1990s it's more about federal dollars, other dollars, and crime statistics went down, and there's a bill in the congress right now about increasing community policing grants for cities and states. i think it should be looked at. i hope the presidential candidates are talking about it. >> i hope they do, rich, and i

think there is a wr on police, and it is causing police to be a little more hesitant about going. in some cases the police themselves are handcuffed in what they can do and can't do. l.a., by the way, is seeing this enormous jump. in some areas of l.a., you have seen a 15% rise in violent crimes. in a lot of cases the rise in crime has been leading to a fall-off in the economy. >> it sure is. who would want to open a business in baltimore right now? i feel really sorry for the people who do run businesses in baltimore right now. >> the democratic party is basically siding with the people who want to declaw the police. you know, if you are a drmt candidate today, you can't even say that all lives matter. that's considered racist. you can't talk about black on black crime. we have a real vacuum of leadership here. >> but, you know, john, the irony is that the minority

community is hurt the most by this rise in crime. it is always in the minority centers where you see the worst rises in violence when you cut back on the police forces. >> one of the solutions to this is to end the drug war. it's been a miserable failure, and it's forced police departments to put a lot of resources towards fighting it rather than protecting people from real criminals. >> the broken windows, meaning that you can stop little crime, and -- the minority lives. when you stop crime from spreading. we saw that, you know, over the last decades. we saw crime plummeting when those measures are put in place. by the way, that keeps

businesses in place. >> black lives matter. you don't want to stop policing that saves black lives. >> part of the proob, david, is that if you look at the cities where you have had long trends in rising homicide rates like, let's say, michigan, detroit, and flint, you go to missouri, st. louis, and jackson, you also have long population declines. what happens is the people who have the money and can afford to, they leave. the people without the money, many of which in those cities were minorities, they stay, and they suffer. >> it's a throwback to the 1980s and 1990s.

we know what works for the republicans. take off the handcuffs and stop these insidious attacks. it starts with the white house. always victims of the police. never victims of crime. >> the u.s. taking thousands more refugees, but can we afford it? plus, kim davis released from jail after saying she couldn't do her job because of religious beliefs. should your religion trump your job no matter what? to you at 11:30. >> i will be watching. thank you, eric. up here first, teachers striking over wages. parents protesting school closings. now forbe

the only way to get better is to challenge yourself, and that's what we're doing at xfinity. we are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience. and this includes our commitment to being on time. every time. that's why if we're ever late for an appointment,

we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. >> millions of kids around the nation. not in seattle, washington. the teachers there walking the picket lines protesting for higher wages. in chicago they're closing schools and the ones opening are still facing a big problem. you say this is why we have to convert all public schools into union-free charter schools. >> yes. it's time for change. in fact, there are 55,000 students in illinois who are in charter schools. full disclosure, my beloved god daughter is the vice principal of a charter school in harlem. you know, minority families want charter schools. in harlem, the bronx, and the most desperate neighborhoods in

illinois. they want them. across the board test scores have gone up, and, by the way, these are not private schools. these are public schools that are funded by nonprofit. >> bruce, test scores have gone up in the charter schools, but the costs of paying specifically for union pensions in places like chicago is just going through the roof. we have a figure, by the way, that chicago school spending has gone up 37% over the past ten years. that's a big rise. look at the increase of chicago pensions. it's gone up 1,614% in the past ten years. >> it is true. there are a lot of problems and my family from outside of the area, you don't have enough liquor in your liquor cabinet or time on your hands. it's not just a union issue. we have had four or five superintendents here in the last ten years, and we just -- the most recent superintendent was kicking millions of dollars to a principal education program.

mayor daley, before that, was lowsing two schools rather than forcing the mayor . >> it's how you get rid of the incompetent teachers. what i really encourage is there are more and more success examples of charter schools. the most recent being the extraordinary comeback of new orleans schools. >> right. steve. >> well, you also have a great experiment under way in nevada if they don't use something there. they have educational savings accounts. every parent $5,000 or more. they can choose which school their kid goes to no matter what. or even pick specific courses

outside the school to help their kids. that's the way to go. free markets work in education. >> now, we should mention, by the way, they do work, but charter school teachers get paid less, but they have a lot more freedom. as a former teacher in chicago, bruce, listen up, i was -- i got to tell you, sometimes the freedom is worth more than the increase in pay. >> dave, in competition is how you make every industry more efficient, whether it be schools, clothing, or food. it doesn't matter. you know, the hypocrisy here is that many of these public schools that don't want competition from charter schools are the same places where you have to compete to make the basketball team or the soccer team or whatever. >> a lot of people forget that competition is important. not just in business, but in places like schools as well. >> absolutely. look, i am solidly in the camp for educational freedom. i visited with a number of them. i do have a concern over charter schools, and that is that it's only reforming public sector

education. these are public schools. one of the drawbacks is they actually a lot of times pull students from private schools and ultimately there's less competition, less diversity of educational options. we have to consider these different ways of solving educational freedom problems. >> one more happy birthday to bruce. thank you for coming. happy birthday, bruce. coming up, these crazy markets are not scaring away our informers. in fact, the names they like so much.

>> with these crazy markets have you to watch fbn on monday. now for stocks that are going to be winners even if the markets keep going crazy. imac, quest diagnostics. >> i like qwest diagnostics. buy on the dip. strong revenue, strong profit margin. >> you like it quick. >> i like medical

experimentation, yes. >> you like investment banks even more. >> yes. high school hand is one of the great u.s. investment banks that finally went public. huh for watching. don't forgetthat's it for forbe. keep it right here. eric golden time. >> one thing that the united states can do is to begin to admit more syrian refugees. >> it's being kwauld a disaster of biblical proportion that is syrian refugees storm europe. the obama administration planning to bring at least 10,000 more here to america, but this comes amid reports isis is using the refugees to infiltrate the west. are we inviting a costly terror attack on our own soil? hi, everyone. i'm aik. welcome to cashin in. our crew this week, wayne rogers, swron than, michelle, and -- i understand the new men are -- yesterday was the