the united states of america, you are in a particular position of leadership. do something. stuart: you just saw a little dispute between father jonathan and myself about the pope on climate change. all climate change first thing this morning. neil cavuto, my time is up and now it's yours. neil: not a moment too soon for you, varney, ten hail marys, that's just for starters! after the criticism of the holiest man on the planet by stuart varney we're going to try to patch relations with the vatican. there is a lot of confusion whether the pontiff is setting the stage for a major lecture before the united states congress on this very issue of climate change. steve forbes is with us right now. the pope is doing a mass at cathedral of saint matthew, that was the cathedral i might recall and for a lot of you recall are of a certain age the funeral mass for john kennedy after his assassination in november 1963.

but back to steve forbes and the significance and the controversy over these papal remarks at the white house. what did you make of it? >> well, first of all, weather's been changing for four billion years on the earth, where do you apply resources that most help people? climate change, so-called man made climate change, the dollars you have to spend are hundreds and hundreds of billions. wouldn't that money be used for malaria vaccinations, clean up water in africa and elsewhere where millions of kids die each year. neil: we might not have human beings if we don't address that right now. >> there's no evidence of that at all. in terms of of the science behind it, it is still undetermined. and so when you don't have real science backing it up, are you going to spend all the resources, put people in poverty because of slow economic growth on an unproven theory. that's not responsible.

neil: what do you make of the fact he has seen this beyond an economic issue to now essentially theological one, a human right to clean air. >> it comes best when you have a more vibrant society and not scrapping by trying to get your next meal. that's why in the totalitarian countries they treat the country horribly. beijing, pollution is bad there. have you governments accountable to the people, save the resources to give people a cleaner environment. >> you know, you remember the close relationship that ronald reagan had with pope john paul ii, many are saying the same applies here with this pope and this president, when it comes to issues like climate change, normalizing relations with cuba. that are very similar to the way the pope john paul ii and ronald reagan were to bring down the soviet union.

do you agree with that? >> i hope not in the sense that john paul ii, his actions helped contribute to the freedom of hundreds of millions around the world bringing down what reagan rightly called the evil empire. castro, they borrowed dissidents from visiting the pope. there is a very catholic base, they feel betrayed many of them, the pope wasn't effective on their behalf. here in the united states, again oclimate change, the united states is one area where emissions are down because we're using more gas, natural gas. neil: i think what he's saying steve, more, keep it up, keep it going, lead the way. >> and that comes from capitalism, free enterprise, and by the way, capitalism which he's denounced from time to time emerged because of the catholic church and the judeo-christian tradition, in terms of curiosity, searching for things. neil: we're going to come back to it later in the block, he

like all pontiffs are creatures of the background like john paul ii the cardinal of poland knew firsthand the aggression of the soviet union and made that a cause. this pope will remember the hard times the argentineans experienced not only because of government but banks and can't shake the notion that it was the big capitalist institutions that screwed these people. >> they weren't free market capitalist institutions. neil: absolutely. that has colored his view. >> absolutely. and he doesn't see the distinction between fascism, authoritarianism and genuine free markets. neil: don't go anywhere, ron christie on the wiffle the pope and the message he's sending, he's walking the walk. fiat 500 l, that car has been tooling around in, cost of all about $24,000.

cadillac one, the vehicle we provide for the president of the united states, 1.5 million dollars. he's askewed the products used popular with prior pontiffs like pope benedict. he's not elaborate when it comes to things, he went to an eye glass store in rome, tooled out on his own and stressed to the owner of the store, i don't need new frames, i need new glasses. he walks the rather humble walk, and in your eyes, ron, that says a lot, why? >> good afternoon, neil. i think it says a lot because people look at people in positions of power. people in position of moral authority and say do they actually walk the walk? is it do as i say and not as i do? take someone like john kerry who says he voted for the war before he voted against it. look at john edwards who says there are two americas, a rich and a poor america, and yet he spent 28,000. he has a 28,000-square-foot home in north carolina and more

recently you look at someone like george soros who said bush and cheney were so bad and evil and soros bought two million shares of halliburton and made a lot of money off of it. neil: i think the pope is going out of his way to illustrate that image counts that how you appear to people across the globe counts, so the humble roots, the fact as a cardinal and bishop before that, he refused to go to the united states, saying that those photo-op cardinals to paraphrase him were trying gather good publicity and maybe a run for the pope themselves. i wonder about that and whether this is by design part of his strategy, i am reaching out to a broader base. >> i think he is, neil, if you look at drop in the number of people attending church and the number of catholics who are going to church on sunday, he's trying to have a fresher image, refreshing image and to be a welcoming pontiff not only as

head of the church but people around the world and here in the united states, and what we see in washington, d.c. is any indication, boy, there are a lot of people who are quite happy to see him, neil. authenticity rings through. neil: do you find it the anti-capitalist stance has benefitted fiat enormously? >> no question about it. i think he's misguided in anti-capitalist sort of stance. if you look at home country of argentina, it's the sense of government intervention which destroyed the economy in argentina. with a free capitalist society, neil, we can help so many more people impoverished and in need with capitalism in the free markets. neil: hate to break it to you, ron, i'm going add and you steve forbes and stuart varney have to rest your confession and beg for the pope's forgiveness. [ laughter ] >> we will keep track of that. there is another big leader in town, it is the president of china right now. xi jinping.

he has been giving a message when it comes to the cyberbreaches, he's on top of it, wants all companies to be on top of it, that it's not china's doing but the world should join forces on dealing with this sort of thing. it's a stretch here, jo ling kent on, a meeting with u.s. technology ceos who themselves have the targets of the security breaches, including the likes of apple and amazon, they're not just meeting with the chinese president right now. jo ling, seems odd but these are among the guys bending his ear and he theirs, what are we to make of that? >> two angles here. analysts are saying the chinese ceos, the american ceos want to effect how xi jinping is thinking and the skeptical side is president xi jinping is laying out what is acceptable to do business in china. in seattle, said he china is open for business, he doesn't want to control the u.n.

he has no hand in the hacking situation, and said he's willing to work with washington, but we have reached out to all of the ceos in these meetings today, and we expect to hear how xi jinping makes the pitch, especially, neil, before he goes and meets with president obama in just a couple of days. neil: you know, may be just me, i get the feeling they're sucking up to him, and i think they're well aware, these are very smart individuals who run some of the most successful companies on the planet. they don't want to do anything to jeopardize an important labor market for them but consumer market, so why rock the boat? >> that's what you may see out of boeing which is taking president xi jinping on a tour, a place of multibillion dollar record order with the chinese government. last night at the welcome dinner in seattle, you saw starbucks ceo howard schultz toasting with starbucks coffee

pike place special reserve. president xi jinping and welcoming him in the country. certainly they make a lot of the money, in the chinese market. the question is how will they tackle cybersecurity with the public side, the opm hack and the new developments coming out. will there be more synergies or business as usual? neil: it is weird, very, very weird, thank you, jo ling kent, very much. i wanted to give you a quick look, we're going to talk about the boeing situation and the context of what the deal means. first to the dow over 108 points down. there is a report out by an accounting firm predicting very weak holiday sales despite the fact of the likes of macy's and toys "r" us and others announcing in excess of 100,000 holiday workers they seem to be suspecting a busy holiday season. they do not see it that way, it will be lower in inflation adjusted terms than last christmas.

you never know, sometimes the best predictions are wrong, i pass that along as some of the catalysts for that. and the ongoing controversy with volkswagen where the ceo had to step down on fears there might be other companies than just volkswagen. back to the kowtowing to china, and boeing indicating today that it's going to manufacture a lot of single aisle planes in china. china accounts for a quarter of that market. can scott martin and charlie gasparino and steve force on what they make of all of that. gaspo, to you, boeing is just searching out a good market, right? >> i know donald wants to tax boeing or -- neil: any company that ships stuff overseas. >> nationalize them if they do something like this, but this is part of the free market at work. and yes, we lose jobs over, there but when you have free market and free trade, we gain jobs too. and it helps with inflation. when companies are allowed to seek out best market, so i

would be, if i were donald, i'd go back, start reading frederick hayac and read milton friedman, and read adam smith and come to a conclusion before you start engaging. neil: that as you know, steve, trump has been among those saying companies who outsource or hire folks overseas, you got to penalize them. he's not firing or boeing is not firing american workers, just hiring a lot in china. so does he even made a distinction? and is that in sync with the republican party that by and large likes that kind of thing? >> when you have trade, people both sides prosper. if i buy something you from, you're offering something they want. neil: when it comes to china, it's all their advantage. >> well, we benefit enormously. look at apple, the products they sell us which made apple one of the largest companies in the world, one of the biggest, good paying companies in the world, they do a lot of assembly in china. so it's like each state in this

country having their own barriers. so in terms of boeing wanting to do a business in china, that's good, that makes them a stronger company, makes them more effective as a competitor and we both benefit from it. in terms of cyberhacking and the like, you can't expect companies to take the lead on it. i remember a ceo of a major company saying he know he's being hacked by the chinese. you could see the hacking being done, and each day at a certain time, the hacking stopped for an hour, we figured that was the lunch break. [ laughter ] >> the government has to take a lead on that. you wherein they could start on that? starting to undermine china's huge censorship of the internet inside china, open that up and give them a little of their own medicine. >> i would hack them back. >> hack them back. >> opening up the internet. open up the internet. neil: sorry you're holding this, you are busy. but i'm looking at all of this scott martin and wondering if

the messages these guys are sending to the chinese leader he's playing them like a fiddle, when he gets out of meeting with the president tomorrow and gets the state fanfare and the 21-gun salute, he could say, look, some of your most successful companies and ceos are with me, they're doing business with me, and doing business with boeing, i've got starbucks ceo you know toasting me with highly caffeinated beverages, i'm fine, what's your problem? >> some of the best starbucks has is going down the guy's throat. that's the interesting thing, after these meetings, who holds the cards here? and i think the points are exactly right. whether donald trump wants to spank the companies for going to china, mexico is the same situation where i think that's what makes america great. these companies can still be american companies but do better work overseas do, cheaper manufacturing overseas, and eventually benefits the american consumer and the companies themselves,

so having the china president over here is great because that helps those companies feel better about doing business over there which helps our economy. >> and let's be real clear what is the engine of growth coming out of a recession like we have. not generally the big companies, not generally ge that hires gazzilions of workers, it's small businesses, if donald wants to make a contribution, he's coming out with the economic plan soon, i read something maybe this week. let's see what he does about small businesses, tax code. neil: i don't think he'll offer a lot of details. >> then he should not be running for president at this point. neil: a lot of people get to the office without providing. >> i think barack obama, in his defense, gave us a lot of details. neil: no, he gave broad parameters about health care for all. >> he said how we do it. neil: tax rate up to 36.9%. he didn't give a lot of details. >> i think he did. i think there's nothing that barack obama did that i'm surprised at, whether it's

health care, dodd-frank, higher taxes on people he considers rich which is a family of four in long island making $200,000 a year. neil: candidates providing details have suffered in the polls. think about chris christie and the social security thing, jeb bush on his own economic plan, simplified tax code and today simpler rules and regulations. i don't see him firing up the polls, doing well. >> you got to lead with it, a good example is ronald reagan who led with a 30% tax cut proposal in 1980 which other candidates attacked including george h.w. bush. neil: okay, i'll give you that. good. thank you very much. the pope is still very mad at you. sorry. the pope doesn't even want to talk to you. >> i've been excommunicated. neil: you weren't even in a position to be excommunicateed. >> i was married in the church. i'm only kidding! >> we're going to have time to go to this or no? the head of volkswagen, this was a shocker, his contract was

up, this is what they call bad timing, but he's out of there on charges that volkswagen might have compromised emissions standards in better than 11 million vehicles. judge, that's a big deal. that is a huge deal. should this be the case, not only lose his job but go to jail? >> depending what he knew, neil. the evidence shows a sophisticated criminal conspiracy which involves many, many people to report falsely information to the epa, information that the government requires under a penalty of perjury be reported regularly and accurately. the way this works is the government will seek indictments from many, many people and will try and get those people to turn evidence against people north of them on the corporate ladder and go as high as they can. this is a crime of intent,

meaning he cannot be personally prosecuted unless he knew about it. if he really didn't been it, if this was a massive conspiracy that somehow was kept from him, he has no personal criminal liability. it doesn't look good. i suggest to you that what happened to him in the past three days is what happened to jeff smizec at united airlines. the corporation hired lawyers to do a preliminary investigation to tell the board here's what we found and whatever it was we decided the ceo has to go right now, he's probably going to need a legal team to defend him and it's going to be a different legal team than the one we hire. neil: judge, thank you very much. we'll have a lot more of. this the sell-off and then the pontiff, and then apple. fake iphone 6s's in china? after this. we live in a world of mobile technology,

but it is not the device that is mobile,

it is you.

. neil: all right, a busy day for the pope after meeting with the president at the white house. he is now at the cathedral of saint matthew, that's been around since 1840, became very famous in november 1963. it was there, that there was a funeral mass for john f. kennedy after his assassination. 300 u.s. bishops and cardinals are in attendance, he will have a private audience with him. it was tucked in the time line here but he's going to be meeting with benefactors as well. so those are the high and mighty and the 1% to keep the church going, i don't know how that will fare. there's been dustup in new york at saint patrick's cathedral and others, many ever them complain the one percenters helped finance the renovation and not getting primo spots for the mass, and they're upset. here to talk about how

apple is upset with the fake iphone 6s's. they are on sale in china. >> how do we get a fake iphone 6s? how about a tenth of the price that runs the android operating system. >> oh, no. >> let me give you the information. if you preordered the phone, you will likely get the 6s, the real one on friday. however, fake ones on sale right now in china for $90, they would normally cost between 830 and $950. two reuters reporters go into a store in china, the mecca for counterfeit goods, nine out of ten items are fake items. go into a store, half hour later, the worker brings out a 6s for them, and looked 99.9% real, it ran slow, the pictures were fuzzy and noticed it ran on the android operating system. this is what china is selling. they cost our companies 20 to

25 billion dollars a year. neil: but they get away with it. >> yes, you have the president meeting with tim cook. neil: china claims it's not really a ripoff, it's an apple 6s or the small s. they didn't say that. we'll have more after this.

. neil: that is happening to carly fiorina, and a lot of it over here stewardship of when hewlett-packard back in the early 2000's, back then, we had just come up to 9/11 and there had been the significant swoon we would call the tech meltdown. now at the time, i was talking to her quite a bit of her days at lucent and at&t but stewardship then and the criticism from the technology world that became the focus of

a lot of our introduce. take a look. >> my job is to do my job. my job is to post the numbers. i think if people will get past the conventional wisdom and the tricky sound bite which i'd love to be able to get a sound bite on sam's business or michael. neil: if you want to trash them, you're welcome to. >> look at numbers, look at the fact. the earnings growth, the topline growth, the cash flow, the market growth, the market share, the growth in market share. we're posting the numbers. >> that was then carly fiorina talking to me on this very network when she was running hewlett-packard, including the founders of hewlett-packard itself, they have since come around to her, but i only point that out that the thousand of layoffs as our own lizzie mcdonald pointed out were going on rampant in the industry at that time and it is easy to be

a monday morning quarterback and the compaq merge wler it delivered the goods. a lot of companies went under and a lot of folks lost their jobs then, and you could make an argument this wasn't an isolated incident. in other words, she was caught in a tsunami of high-tech selling. >> yeah, it was the ferocious downturn. i don't think any of the other gop candidates can lay claim to what carly fiorina had to contend with running h-p and trying to execute a merger, during a really terrible time in the u.s. economy. sun microsystems failed, gateway failed, k-mart went bankrupt. h-p stock trended down below where it was at in 1999. you know through the period, 2001 through 2005, 2006. neil: she's going to say all the background, lizzie and say i know what i was doing. we're showing the performance in the company's stock during

her stewardship but it's been a bumpy ride and didn't meg whitman know it now, she announced 30,000 layoffs last week. >> on top of 55,000 at h-p. even meg whitman said cut carly fiorina some slack. she needed to do what she had to do to try to turn h-p around. at that time, big blue was the big gorilla. ibm was the giant they were all fighting against, also unisys. carly was trying turn h-p into one stop shopping for all of computer needs for all of computer america and made tough decisions, yes laying off 30,000 workers, the workforce then grew to 150,000. neil: that was the result of a merger with a merger like compaq. >> now struggling because it adjusts data electronic systems, 320,000 employees. neil: my only point on that for

critics to her there were extenuating circumstances in an extenuating environment. >> this is an important point. that stock got slammed because when it bought compaq, it was a stock swap. it was a $24 billion stock swap. h-p buying compaq to. do the merger it issued more than a billion shares to do that merger neil: excellent. >> boosting up its share count by a third, that wrecks the eps results and wall street started slamming it. so, yeah, did they have a tough go at it, yes. the profits went down and then up under mark, the ceo of hp continued carly fiorina's strategy, it is now a fortune 500 top ranking today. neil: very good point. and we will continue playing these bites and the interview chats that we had with her, multiple times, multiple companies over multiple years from those ceo days. long before she became this political rockstar in the republican party. for every how long that lasts, but we thought we owed you a real look at a real period in real time.

every day. all right. meanwhile you've heard of scott walker is out, his big money man on who just might be in. (patrick 1) what's it like to be the boss of you?

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neil: what happened? >> well, i think -- i heard that he was kind of running his own campaign, you know, and that never works and, look, i know him well, and he is a -- he's a terrific guy. and it just -- neil: follow the pressure, he's going to -- >> no. it's all about money.

you run out of money, you -- neil: obviously we have to unit around an alternative to the front runner, who is donald trump. is he right? >> well, neil, the way i look at it is let me.com thing, it's like golf, i play my own game, i'm not looking at anybody else. neil: i'm still trying to find out the golf analogy. that was john kasich, the presidential candidate saying he's not among those, at least in his view who has to step out now to make way to challenge donald trump, the presumed front runner. but the message is then who is going to survive with scott walker out? who does the big money guy like anthony support right now? time to ask anthony. who do you go to, anthony? >> well, neil, we're playing survivor right now, but the reality tv show bachelor, i'm being corded. neil: who is cording you the most? >> four candidates that are probably going to be there

okay? it's going to be one of the outsiders likely bush, marco rubio, and john kasich. those are probably the four people going to be left in the race. so for me, do you go work on the presidential front or go on and pick another candidate? so i'm trying to figure that out right now, right now i'm hiding out in disney world and you're the only one calling m. neil: well, now that the candidates know that you're in disney world, they'll meet you outside of magic kingdom. and i know you've left a couple of big names off of that list, chris christy comes to mind, why. >> well, i like governor christy, but this is a lot like surfing and his wave came in 2012 and already hit the shore. so the governor being, you know, he definitely gets the -- he has the bomb of a donald trump, but also a

career politician. so i don't think you're going to have -- you're going to have both this time. neil: what about the carly fiorina? was she in that list or no? >> well, she's an outsider. neil: yes. >> so it's trump, carly fiorina, or carson, it's going to be one of the three, the music is playing, the chairs are being removed, one of those three sitting on the chair. she's had very, very good on her feet, i was at the debate, it was 150 degrees in there, i didn't see her sweat, the other people on the stage were sweating, so i give her a lot of credit to that. neil: do you know if it's true, kasich and others have said this, that for some candidates, money was drying up. whatever money they had, it just stopped coming and people just closed their checkbooks. >> yeah. listen, i'm standing by that because i'm responsible for the money in the campaign. neil: but i'm asking about others. whether you know that's applied to some of these other candidates as well. >> yes. no question. anybody that 1%, neil, they're

telling you they're raising a lot of money, you're meeting a liar. so 1% very, very tough to raise money. that's guys like cruz and fiorina can raise money through the personality. but at the end of the day this is a momentum business a lot like stock and momentum investing, when money is rising, you're going to have a vicious circle on the way down, and we did experience that, and i really praise governor walker are for having the self awareness and recognizing that as the leader, it would be best to take one for the team and send the signal of leadership to these other 1%ers, get out of the race, let's move on, and let's move this down to a couple of people so that we can select a candidate that's going to win. . neil: all right, anthony, let me know when you commit to a candidate, but first i know you want to get on space mountain. >> examinely. i've got my fast pass. thank you. neil: very good.

connell with us right now, the market continues to lose ground but this is no bounds here. >> we're seeing a little bit of stability, though, finally in these biotech stocks these last couple of days, at least in somewhat in this hillary clinton tweet the other day, the stocks have been getting hammered, 6% in two days, so today, you mention that it's still down but that is with the general markets so we have seen some leveling off. neil: her charge she was going to look into this. >> yes. neil: and then the gauging on the part, she sounded like all of these guys. >> right. because of that new york times earlier in the week there was some ridiculous price gouging and she did paint with a broad brush and the whole index goes down. i guess that happens in a lot of stock indexes or group stock, but in this one in particular, they often trade alongside each other, if one is down, they're all down, so that's what happened this week and it's worth pointing out other issues here, biotech

index, the same one, it had a similar drop last month. neil: right. >> two days, 7 plus percent. neil: a lot of those stocks are bear market territory, forget a direction. >> a huge run up until mid-july or -- were up huge and then since that point, gone down a lot. so now people are asking the question do you jump back in again? they're trading it -- i think the index was 26, 27 times earnings at the end of july and then it came back down to 23, 24. so the point as their not as rich as they were, but maybe they have further the fallout, i don't know but that's the debate. neil: a couple of those overcharged, one case the $1.50, they were resendent. >> and it is interesting when you paint with a broad brush, you would hope at least a one-off but a little bit of stability today. . neil: all right. thank you very much, connell, two things we're focusing on, the pope

and hillary clinton. we connect.

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neil: we're following the pope today, he's running i think about -- what would you say, ralph? 10, 15 minutes behind schedule, in washington, famously known for the funeral mass of john f kennedy after his assassination, but one of the things he's going to do there is meet with benefactors that would be the back area of the church, and i only point that out because there's been a dustup here in manhattan among some of the one

percenters, those who contributed heavily to the renovation of the cathedral in new york, some of them not exactly choice seats for the pope's mass scheduled there at the end of the week. and they think that they deserve a better seating position. and the pope in this case is meeting with benefactors in washington, i don't know what he'll do at saint patrio sainst. patrick's, and he reminds the pope if he doesn't meet with them, have made never going to get any money in the future. it's not that bad, and you don't have to look very far to see the source in this and hillary clinton is now formally an option to finishing keystone, made environmentalist delighted and even bernie sanders tweeted at her. not so some unions for whom she is currently concluded less to lose.

lisa, eric here on this. eric is a democratic strategist. what was she doing? what was her calculation? >> well, the calculation is that most of the democratic base at this point is opposed to keystone excel, and it wasn't. neil: what did she not unions. >> well, leaving unions aside. the ones where bernie sanders is seeing some gains. neil: so this is to counter him. >> well, this is to make not an issue, of keystone, take it off the table. neil: it's an issue on unions. >> but the unions are backing her. neil: no. not all of them. >> well, most of them are. the major ones the other day. neil: the calculation boomerangs her? >> yeah. i think in hurts her. this is pandering in its purest form. neil: and we've never seen a politician do that. >> all the time. neil: pope's in town, let's be clear. >> no. but bernie sanders is gaining ground in iowa, in new hampshire, so this is pandering, but i think what it's going to do is going to end up hurting her because not only does this apply in the

destruct factor because she has previously said she wasn't going to take a statement on it because it would be a conflict of interest because of the state department feelings of it, i remember that too. but what she's doing with environmentalist over unions and what it's going to do is stand in the way of energy growth in the united states and the way of $2 billion in revenue and 42,000 jobs. neil: now, what's helping her, declining oil and gas prices. >> uh-huh. neil: so the need for this, at least at the time being -- but let me ask you this. i think this hastens, the entry of joe biden in the race because unions love him and certainly more than hillary clinton and they might look to him. >> no. from the union people i talk to, they're willing to give her a pass on this one. frankly. neil: union people are -- >> no. but they're not. no, they're not. neil: frankly -- >> everyone has to honestly. neil: no, you know. i'm jewish, so i get it. but, no, seriously.

this is an issue that most people don't care about. if you look at the polling, 40% of people are opposed to it, second place -- >> majority of americans support it. neil: second place is people i don't know. people just don't know. and they don't care. neil: this is calculated and very sinically -- >> no. you're absolutely right and that's what it does, it does look calculated, and it's pandering, the majority of the americans support the keystone pipeline. >> no. and frankly -- >> hold 'em on. democratic supporters as well. >> no. they don't. >> the democratic government. >> they don't. >> the democratic association supported it. >> they don't look at any of the polling. neil: i don't know -- >> look at the polling. neil: i don't know what she believes in, eric, and, by the way, she's not the only policy. >> no. this is an instance where she's supported and she's against it, she waited as long as she possibly could . neil: no. i'll say what she said, she said wait until i'm in office and you'll hear from

me then. 10 points in the polls, not normal. >> no. they're not. >> the process -- neil: you have to -- >> she got nervous. >> she says this earlier frankly, she would have said it earlier. come on. >> she's seeing the affects of joe biden and mind you the union support -- >> hold on let me tell you one more thing. neil: all right. let him explain. >> how this helps her. neil: please do. >> because right wing is going nuts over this. okay? >> hold on. hold. hold on. the right wing is going after on this, people will rally around her on the left. neil: all right. >> so being attacked. >> you're beating around the story. >> no. i'm not beating around the story. neil: she will ruin the day,. >> joe biden is not getting into the race. okay, mr. smarty pants. neil: when we come back, you know there's this whole dustup with vw and the software and the 11 million vehicles and they were trying to hide their emissions, what if i told you it's more than vw?

what if i told you it's a lot more? stick around

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neil: 11 million volkswagen cars rigged ceo off a job, ring a bell? gerri willis on if you're not imagining it, you have heard this before. >> this isn't always screwed up with a part, the at the cat aair bag sprays metal into the interior of your car, no, this is we've rigged the car so it would lie on test. we're cheating on government tests, and we think that's okay. and you think this is one guy in the back room in engineering somewhere, no, you can't do that in today's car companies,. neil: who could -- i mean that's blatant, that would come to people's attention.

>> well, eventually i guess it did. half a million cars in the u.s. had this extra piece of software in it that would say one thing when the government was watching and another do something else entirely when you were just running your car down the street. i think it's astonishing that this has happened, and it makes you wonder where else it's going on frankly. neil: and it doesn't stop at a mid-level executive position, i would imagine. but immediately your question's going who else is out there? who else has this type of sophistication? volkswagen for all of its attention isn't known for this type of thing so who else could do it? >> well, it could be anybody, we just don't know, and we should probably be trying to figure it out in my view, that might be the smart thing to do. the thing with the at th takata story at gm, people's lives were at risk. neil: yeah, but this is honest and living up to your name. and trying to repair that image, thank you very, very much, gerri willis, we'll have loor more on this, take a look

at what's happening at the corner, a selloff, and not even the pope, not even the pope could save this market yet. but he's got five more days; right? so normally popes help markets. normally. this one could be the exception

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all the media about this pope? climate change, takes exception to capitalism. in other words, he's a good guy, everyone says otherwise is a bad guy, i.e., i guess stuart varney. now we start picking this apart to say whether that's fair, and whether the media is being fair in its coverage of this pope and actually being the ones putting this in political terms. brent bozell has been following that very, very closely. what have you found out, brent? >> well, i've got to preface my remarks that saying as catholics you and i better be careful what we say today or we're both going to go to hell. neil: varney is already there. [ laughter ] >> the dynamics are very interesting, because the coverage of this pope and previous popes is dramatically different.

with john paul ii, saint john paul ii and pope benedict, the dynamic was that the press was very critical of them leading up to their visits about how they're out of touch, one called benedict still in the fifth century, that sort of stuff because they're out of tune with abortion, gay marriage, with the priesthood, et cetera. when it came to hard news, when the pontiff arrived in washington, whether it was john paul, whether it was benedict, very positive because the hard news you saw the celebration, so it was very positive, and then it became negative afterwards. with this pope, it's been very positive leading up to the trip because they like him. they like him for political reasons. he's a very political pope, and as a political pope he's taken very strong stands on global warming. he's taken strong stands on wealth distribution and things of that nature. so that's the first dynamic.

the second dynamic is that this pope is terrible, terrible when it comes to public relations. he's made one mistake after another where he gives interviews or says things off the cuff that have gotten him in trouble time and time again. when you give an interview to a gay magazine and the gay magazine twists your words to make you sound like your pro-gay rights, you shouldn't have given that interview. he has said things on abortion, on the priesthood, he says things about gay marriage all of which have been misinterpreted where the vatican has to do damage control. so from public relations, from that standpoint, he's not done as good a job and got to be much, much more careful with what he says. neil: i think the popes by nature, have to prick each side, right? i don't doubt this pope will say things on matters like

abortion and that will anger some on the left. i don't know, but i do know that it is rather routine for the media to pick and choose because of what he said almost coming into the papacy who am i to judge about gays? and from then on a more receptive audience in the mainstream media he seemed more with this age. he's not a lot different than his predecessors in basic church doctrine, but not about separating and the fine lines here, he is saying stuff that mainstream media supports. if he were to get on other way where congress talk about life begins after conception, he might either be ignored or could be vilified but i don't know. >> i think you're right on matters of canonical law, he has been very, very faithful which he has to be to canon law.

it's been on politics where he's more aggressive. isn't it interesting that when he speaks on politics, when he speaks on things like global warming, the media jump on how conservatives are out of line with the holy father, the holy father has got the right answer. okay. if that's true, where is the coverage about joe biden, catholic, about nancy pelosi, catholic, being completely out of line on their positions on abortion? given what the pope has said about abortions. neil: if you want to get on the political stuff, have at it, that's fair game but be fair and balanced about it. >> both sides. neil: it is political for him to speak out on issues like the environment, and it would not be political if he spoke out on abortion? you can't -- can't pick and choose, so be consistent, that's all i'm saying. >> and they've done that time and again. i will say one thing, it is very rare, if ever at all that

saint john paul ii had to clarify his remarks. you knew what he was saying the whole time. this holy father has got to be more careful on the comments he's making in public because they're misinterpreted and being used by the left as political weapons in ways that he didn't intend. neil: well, i know this much, friend, he gets a wrap for being anti-capitalist. fiat is thanking him today. fiat the company that's driven him around in the 500 l, all of $24,000. >> we're not going to hell, are we? neil: not fiat, if we do, we'll take one of the tiny little cars. you will fit in it. fiat is very happy he's doing what he's doing. thank you. >> so we're not going to hell with varney? neil: i'm free. [ laughter ] >> all right, thank you very much. we'll see what happens. now, i want to focus on this poverty fight we've got

going on here, and what do we do to address it? the pope also was counting on that, and the government essentially does have an obligation to help those in need, i'm paraphrasing here. gina loudon, charlie kirk, and is that different what jesus was teaching? >> there's a lot to be said we need to help the least among us, it's dangerous to connect his love of the poor and the altruism and the anti-capitalist statements in the past. let's look at his home country of argentina that has embraced collectivist policies, embraced dictatorships that have stolen money from the rich. neil: that is the only capitalism he knew, to be fair. pontiffs are a product of their upbringing, so gina, i can understand where he's coming from. i don't agree with it.

the anger at u.s. banks, the financial institutions that in his eyes brought argentina to its knees. i can see the anger, i think he had a very different experience with capitalism. that's all i'm saying. >> he did. neil, there's no question about that. heritage's numbers on economic freedom for argentina, they ranked 158 out of 179. this is crony capitalism at its worst. he doesn't understand american capitalism and doesn't understand american capitalism led to more compassion and kindness around this world than any other economic system ever. and we have to remember this too, neil, as you pointed out in the last segment, kind of funny that the statists talk about the separation of church and state until they have someone who they believe they can parade out as the example why socialism and expanded welfare programs are good? and now all of a sudden, forget about the separation of church and state, we're not so

concerned about that anymore. neil: all right, but we do have a high poverty rate, the pope says something has to be done. criticize whether it's government or capitalism has to do more, that is the wind at his back, he touches the common man and woman. what i'm saying is he giving the green right as some of your liberal colleagues that the government should do more to rectify that? >> yes, because that's what the bible says. neil: the bible says government should establish bureaucracy? >> the bible says -- neil: let her finish. >> let me get one word out. what he is saying he is preaching the social doctrine of the bible, and i think it is so hypocritical for people on the right to claim that he has no place to be talking about these issues and to say that these are political issues when they pick and choose things from the bible to support their positions all the time.

neil: would you feel that way if he immediately came out and this was all about abortion today at the white house? >> i certainly would understand where he was coming from on it. as a christian i'm not sitting here saying i'm going to pick and choose what the message should be. neil: you are. >> i'm saying thank goodness it's finally happening, attention to the poor is actually being talked about. neil: it does make a good point, this is bringing this growing global chasm between the rich and the poor the disenfranchised in the middle of the global refugee crisis. >> sure, to your point, talking about the bible says we must grow government to show compassion for the poor. >> no, i didn't. that's absolutely not what i said. neil: she said barack obama should be sainted. that's what she said. >> exactly, right? to go to the broader point, if you want look at where central command statist policies are implemented, the poor stay poor for long periods of time.

pope did not go as far as he should, and said if we want to make poor people's lives better, we should give them freedom and not grow government into a centralized-type command economy. neil: gina? >> building on that, neil, the bible says feed my. she it doesn't say create a social welfare program that by the way in the united states has created an obesity, epidemic among our so-called poor that it's killing them. that's not humane and i doubt if the pope understood that if he'd be advocating for more welfare in the united states. >> and obesity in the epidemic driven by the sugars and the types of ingredients in the cheap products that the poor have access to. come on, it is not black and white, i think what is unique what is happening with his visit is he's going to the capital right now. we have capital workers protesting, who have reached

out to him, sent him a letter, they are homeless, they're working multiple jobs, they are asking him to be the messenger to the members of congress who they feed and clean their offices and who have turned their backs on them. how generous is a member of congress who takes a plate of food from someone serving them and understands that person can't feed her child and turns his back on her? neil: so all the safety net programs that have been for decades now by congresses of all types, it's not enough? >> minimum wage has not kept up wi the economy. neil: we still have the same percentage of those impoverished. it would lead not only the pope but others to say there's another answer. >> they are fixing our education system, criminal justice system, absolutely, there's not one answer. >> i will say this, in the final point to tie it altogether.

if you want to look at common denominator what makes poor people's lives better, giving them economic freedom, not more government programs and spending trillions of dollars, which by the way, we do not have. >> cut the tax burden, see how much more the church can do? neil: i definitely avoided the obesity topic, i want to thank you for your input on that. the pope is running a little behind schedule. more people, shrines at a big mass that's planned. the largest such mass, not the one going on at cathedral of saint matthew but the largest one at the catholic church in the united states, tens of thousands there, they're already, there they won't leave. their seats are that valuable. republican senator johnny isaacson on the revelation that the chinese were up to more hacking than we thought. maybe a lot more. this as the chinese leader is

in town and will be seated at the white house this week. senator, you know what's going on in the widespread hacking issues are significantly more than earlier thought, at the office of personnel and management, about five times worse than we thought. what do you want to do? >> we've got a hold china accountable. certain information we know china has been attempting to hack into u.s. assets. i can't blame them on the opm hack specifically. cybersecurity in america is critical, and china is a major player into trying to hack into our security. neil: always like a he said/she said, the chinese leader told technology ceos, look, we've got to get together and how we solve this problem, i can't imagine jaws had to have dropped at the meeting as if to say you're the reason. >> absolutely. i mean china has said they weren't doing a lot of things in the past as they end up admitting they did. that would be the case hacking into our cybersecurity.

neil: so you had this big shin dig and a state celebration, 21-gun salute for the chinese president. does it seem a little out of sync with what's going on right now? >> what the chinese president needs to perceive from our president is absolute commitment to cybersecurity for the united states, and have a clear policy to the chinese understand where america stands. >> senator, thank you very much. and keep in mind, the president and president jinping are meeting at the white house tomorrow, a state welcome. these are very rare events and you count them on a hand and a half over the last decade is when they happen, but the fact it's happening in china given all this news is raising heck as to whether it is a good use of our diplomatic resource. we'll have more after this. can a business have a mind?

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>> which presidential candidate supports higher taxes, national health care and the wall street bailout? it's donald trump. >> in many cases i probably identify more as a democrat. >> trump wants us to think he's mr. tell it like it is, but he has a record, and it's very liberal. neil: donald trump saw that, he's suing over that. the club for growth president telling our stuart varney, well, this. >> going to tell the truth about donald trump's very liberal record, and that he's really just the worst kind of politician says anything to get elected. neil: charlie gasparino here right now. it's going to get ugly? >> just from someone who's been through 400 libel edits from books and front page stories in the "wall street journal,"

listen to what they said, they said he supports the wall street bailouts, he supports higher taxes. that's present tense. if i were a good editor, i would have said has supported. he's now saying he doesn't support. neil: so on that ground, he might have a case? >> i don't know, but factually, they could be -- it would be wrong. they're going to say it's opinion, we believe he supports and a good chance since he's a public figure. >> i know you're not a lawyer, a lot of lawyers say he's a presidential candidate but it also is intimidateing. >> and it's opinion. and donald, that's the other side, i will tell you this, if i were an editor, to be on the safe side, i would say has supported, he has supported in the past. it's undoubtable he undoubtably supported that stuff in the past. he says he's against higher taxes and things like that from a purely factual standpoint. neil: when you sue someone and he sued a lot of folks in the

past but doesn't let this type of stuff. >> tim o'brien, a reporter at the "new york times," i worked with him at the "wall street journal" over what essentially was three paragraphs in a long book with him where tim questioned his net worth that he wasn't a billionaire essentially. and this -- donald is a fighter, he kept this thing going for like four years. neil: where do you think this thing goes? . >> now he's a presidential candidate and his public stature is bigger. it's going to get thrown out of court. i will say this, this is where it's starting to strike me as donald is reaching his high-water mark now, or he has reached it. when you start going around suing people for an attack ad which can be construed as opinion very easily, or threatening to sue. neil: doesn't hurt his popularity? >> i don't know about that. neil: your point is it's not going to help him. >> i don't think it's going to

help him. those polls show slippage now, i think he's hit his high-water mark. what do i know? i'm not karl rove, who he doesn't like, anyway, but you know what i'm saying? i look at polls, seems like he's stretching, okay? he's not a novelty anymore, he attacks this one, attacks that one. neil: he is saying to the club for growth, you guys are so yesterday, i think. >> yeah, so he sues them? neil: yes. >> that's insane. neil: you ever watch "the sopranos"? >> at least they kill people. neil: you are right. charlie gasparino, thank you very much, my friend. is the market telegraphing not just a drift into correction territory, some fear a bear territory, something worse like a slowdown, even a recession. gary b. smith is worried about it. gary b., what's got you talking this way? >> well, i tell you what, neil, i always think the economy

rests on three pillars. pillar number one is housing, pillar number two is how much people are making and pillar number three is do they have a job? if you look at those three, all are trending downward or flat at best. housing has peaked. neil: you really think so? you think so? >> yeah, i really do. neil: it's nowhere near where it was. >> well, people that bought in 2007, neil, are still, maybe they're not underwater but haven't seen that level of housing prices. but you look at all the other things, home ownership, you look at permits, all that kind of stuff is starting to trend downwards and look at what happens. the fed didn't raise rates but they will at some point. that's not going to help mortgage rates at all, and if housing is precarious now, just think what it's going to be like with another quarter, half-basis-point, i can't see it getting any stronger. neil: you look at that, obviously, you have to see it

in consumer spending, right? i know deloit was out with a report today that envisioned slower holiday sales, lower than they were a year ago, that flies in the face of toys "r" us and macy's doing advanced housing, tens of thousands for what they suspect to be a busy shopping season. what's the real story? >> well, i think the real story is very clear. since wages haven't risen and you have the other pillar, the labor force participation rate being at a 38-month low, there can only be one answer for that. people are putting a lot of this spending on credit, and you know, so you're going to get one thing or another. good temporary spending and people have high credit card bills or the spending is not going to be what macy's and the others think. i think more the latter, they're hiring in anticipation of thinking things are going to be good and i don't think this holiday season is that good at

all. neil: wow, from the state confines of florida. thank you, gary b. smith. >> you bet. neil: we've got the pope in town and stocks down, and we told you about on average when popes come on average stocks go up. he's the fourth pontiff to visit the united states. is he going to be the one? stocks aren't up. after this. awe believe active management can protect capital long term. active management can tap global insights.

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neil: you heard by now yogi berra is bonn at ripe old age of 90. connell, big baseball fan and yogi fan with lessons from the famous catcher. >> i think there are for the presidential race we're in middle of, keeping it simple yogi bear ray was known for. funny whether someone dies you remember certain things about them. what shouldn't get overshadowed how great he was being baseball player and people who knew him, just a terrific person as well, he was involved in the normandy invasion. great american story. neil: that's right. >> these things, whether he said

half of these things, we're not even sure about, but he ended up cashing in on them taking credit. it ain't over till it's over. seems pretty simple. maybe scott walker -- should have waited for that one, right? deja vu all over again which is another one he said. neil: would make you step back and think. some are silly. sometimes deliberately so. >> yeah. neil: the idea was, keep it pithy to the point. i think a lot of candidates could learn something. >> maybe that is why trump has been so successful how simple keeping it. he can't keep that up, comes to the fork in the road he would take it. neil: i remember that one. >> that is true. there was some road, he lived in new jersey, if you took either fork got you to the house. doesn't matter. you take it. neil: he was being literal. >> this is another one with the pope. this is off the subject of politics. read this in "sports

illustrated," some reporter said, yogi, i understand you had audience with the pope. no, i saw him. did you talk to him? yeah we had a chat. what did he say to you? he must read the papers a lot because he said hello yogi. what did you say? i said hello, pope. neil: whatever the season was, steinbrenner fired him couple weeks into the season. >>' 85. neil: that led to a long grudge. yogi was upset he wasn't fired in person. >> steinbrenner, owner of yankees at time would keep him until the end of the year. couple weeks into the season he fires him. he sent the general manager to do it. yogi never forgot that. they made amends, 14 or 15 years later at yogi's museum in new jersey. he apologized way he handled it. should have done it in person. which is great for baseball fans and yankee fans.

he came back to yankee stadium couple times. struck up friendship with jeter. it was nice for people that remembered old yankee teams and great tradition to see him back after 15 years. with all the celebrities and athletes who they may, never hear a bad thing about yogi berra. neil: you knew this. how great a player. >> terrific. maybe argument for somebody like johnny bench or maybe mike piazza, if not, greatest, certainly one of the greatest catchers of all time. neil: yeah. >> he was terrific. hardly ever struck out. could swing at any pitch, even over his head but he would hit it. unbelievable as a hitter. because of these sayings they forget that. remarkable. neil: scott walker should have heeded. >> it ain't over. neil: growing by berra dead at 90. we'll have more after this. (patrick 1) what's it like to be the boss of you?

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neil: all right. things wrapping up at the cathedral of st. matthew in washington. the pop is done there. thousands of people in the church and every pew was filled. including 300 u.s. bishops and cardinals. a number of benefactors with whom the pontiff privately met. never forget those that raise money for the church. he is at a event in largest

catholic church in the united states. basilica shrine. we will give a mass there. we're told largest crowd ever gathered for a catholic event ever. that does not surprise me. 40 to $50 million, people are spending to keep him safe and out of harm's way. former detective bill daly, how do they do that. this is pontiff loves to be with the people. calls them out in the crowd. has babies run up to the popemobile. that really must drive security people nuts? >> it gives them a moment to pause, neil as he decides to close slow down and kiss babies and in the past taken a pizza from someone. neil: how do you guys look at that crowd? how do you sort isn't. >> the look everybody else is looking at from the outside in. everybody is looking at pope. really security are the people inside looking out. they're looking at everything. i mean from the pope visiting a

major city like new york, people on rooftops. people with sniper scopes and binoculars and helicopters, all the people on the ground obviously plain clothes and undercover looking at people's hands. neil: i guess it was reagan rule they established at the '81 assassination attempt, hinckley stood out because he was emeigsless. nothing like any of the others in the crowd waiting for reagan. in this town and philadelphia and washington where the pope will also be, a lot of things look unusual. >> a lot of things look unusual on everyday basis, never mind when the pope shows up. what you have, people are trained. in this case the secret service who takes lead on protection. he is head of state. secret service and new york secret service agents know it well. they have been planning close to year working closely with not only new york city police but swiss guards and other agencies part of the solution.

it is not one size fits all. there are rings of security. people close in, neil, not only looking atpeople's facial expressions and demeanor but looking at their hands. remember "squeaky" fromme who tried to kill president ford. her hand came out of the crowd and with the gun and they disarmed her. neil: she was acting a little weirdly there. the presidents who have been shot in our country, those who have been attacked in our country were outside of the bubble or safety zone of the white house. pope john pal the second was not in the vatican, he was -- pope john paul ii was not in inside. he was outside. when they're out of the bubble you have to be extra vigilant. try telling it to the pope. >> there are sometimes spontaneity could be deterrence. if you say i'm not out on the car 47th and 6th avenue where people could be waiting for you, that create as risk.

neil: we know enough about venue at major sites. >> major sites. he has to come in and out of venues. there are a couple of call choke points where he actually has to physically move. at those points he may reach a crowd. it is those areas security is very much concerned about who is in that crowd, how are they behaving, what actions are they taking. quickly get him out of harm's way. neil: i read a story, i don't know how true, he often times leaves vatican compound to get a pizza on his own. i'm sure security will be in tow. he got a pair of eyeglasses, always frugal. i don't need frames. he left the vatican on his own. how do you protect the guy? >> someone like this he will do what he wants to do. security has to try to keep up. seen images of him driving his little fiat, surrounded by very big limousines and cars, armored vehicles. he is not in those. in the small fiat.

the man what he wants to do, security will do best to keep up with him. stay with the moment. it is who he is. what makes him what he is. will not stop him. neil: hope springs eternal. bill, thank you very much. bill daley. we have this selloff on wall street. down 87 points. money into bonds, less so today. commodities taking it on the chin today. part of this, not all of this, has to do so much with the pope. can't blame him with some of climate change, can't blame him for that one, a growing concern that maybe the economy is slowing down. big accounting firm comes out saying so much so people will not shop as much this christmas. apparently not talking to my wife but they talked to enough others to think we could have problems. and that got the selling going. we'll have more after this. prinu get there. join us as we celebrate eddie's retirement, and start planning your own.

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your link to what's next. just like eddie, the first step to reaching your retirement goals is to visualize them. then, let the principal help you get there. join us as we celebrate eddie's retirement, and start planning your own. >> fox business brief time. i'm connell mcshane. here comes the pope leaving st. matthews. here is live look at the pope's motorcade inside the fiat. modest pope francis making his way around the nation's capitol. we continue to monitor his movements as we have been. monitoring the stock market. s&p, all moving lower. selling resumed. boeing in the business brief this time around with the chinese president in the country. the other high-profile visitor.

take about is one of the stocks dragging the dow down with 1 1/2% decline in boeing. another selloff on the markets. the pope is in town. we'll watch him as i moves around washington, d.c. wonder whether we get the papal rally we talked about? remember pope benedict, up 4% the week he was here? not your fault, pope francis. we'll be right back.

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neil: maybe around million upwards of 1.4 million. now they're saying north of maybe five million. and that is a moving target. on why these new details not only are just coming to light now, but what they portend now. ira, i find it ultimately ironic all of this is being revealed as we've got the chinese president in town. he will be saluted at white house with a state celebration. that's weird. but tell me what is going on here? how bad is this? >> it's bad, neil. its not just opm. it is not just the irs. it is across the federal and i hate to be bearer of bad news, the state and local governments. data security is not a priority from the management. the management directives when there is a new program, a new government policy, people talk about the economic impact, pros and cons no one stands up says,

hey, what is the cybersecurity, what is privacy implication of this program? the government continues to launch new programs and services as well as upgrade old ones and cybersecurity and privacy seems to consistently get the back seat. we're seeing the results of that at opm. today with this announcement. neil: now when we get a separate figure to show 21 1/2 million were possibly affected by this, does that mean customers, agents of the government, those who were interviewed for positions in the government? does it have like a trickle effect? could you explain how the number gets so big? >> yeah. it gets so big because so many people undergo, lots of different types of background checks. there are people who are government contractors, private companies, that the government contracts with to provide services and employees and those companies undergo background checks quite often. so they're in the database. so it is not just government

employees but it is even people that may only part time be providing products or services to the federal government. and that can trigger the need for this type of background check. and it's very comprehensive, these checks, neil. they know, you know, if you had a drinking problem when you were in college. neil: absolutely. >> or if you had a you know, a boo-boo and slept with someone that your spouse didn't know about. they get all this information and it's sitting in that database. neil: which is why ashley madison's accounts were broken into a separate story. thank you very, very much. scary stuff. very, very stuff with the volkswagen development. not only 11 million compromised vehicles, ceo is out of a job. what could be growing concerns about this being way beyond volkswagen. jeff flock with the very latest. jeff? >> it is interesting, neil. that we broke the story yesterday, actually. vw is not the first automaker that had this issue, gm in the

u.s. back in '95 was sanctioned for 500,000 cadillacs that had defeat device in it. ford in 1998. honda in 1998. both paid millions to settle with the u.s. government for this sort of thing. this has happened before. the question, is it happening again somewhere? and this, at this point we don't know. neil: is it your sense, too, not, bad time for a guys contract to be up, volkswagen ceo contract was up at the time but he claimed he didn't know anything about it. he would get to the bottom of it yesterday in your fine reporting but now higher-ups did know but maybe not all the way up to his level but this doesn't thing happen without them? >> very difficult to think that no higher-ups had any knowledge of this. winterkorn, for his part, has four titles, professor, doctor, chairman, ceo winterkorn. this guy comes with an engineering background that would put most u.s. ceos to

shame. he was known as a guy who just knew everything. such attention to detail. so if he didn't know this, well, you know, maybe he didn't, but, something's wrong there somewhere. neil: always when it hits the fan it weren't really detailed conscious. >> exactly. neil: thanks, buddy. jeff flock. might notice markets clawing back from better than 100 point losses. among reason for earlier loss, concern about the chinese manufacturing sector. but the chinese president is in town. apparently among some of the things he has been talking about, is that china is not nearly basket case a lot of you americans think. that china is stillcapable of maintaining, quoting here, relatively high growth for a long time to come. that's just a promise. but, it's enough to get some buying going. we'll be back after this. ♪

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♪ neil: very quickly here. the pope is behind schedule. he met with benefactors in washington. i had to pick charlie gasparino's brain on that. that is an development. >> as we were reporting yesterday on "your world," a lot of wall street benefactors of renovation of st. patrick's feel snubbed. neil: he will have a mass. >> prayer service. neil: why are they upset? >> they want at least some sort of preferential seating like up close. neil: up close, because they do have seats. they will be there. >> they have seats but they're not the best seats from what i understand. no offense to the pope, i beat up on fat cats all the time, they put in all the money for this thing. they're the ones, the reason why there is renovation of

st. patrick's because of rich guys in new york who want to give back. led by your friend, ken langone. neil: right. >> but the pope is a politician and optics are bad if you have all the wall street fat cats in great seats. neil: like front row. >> anti-capitalism. >> you know what happens? wall street fat cats will put their money elsewhere. >> where? scientology? neil: i don't know where those donors go. we're up watching republican donors very closely. we're told latest push on part of jeb bush in column in "wall street journal," easing regulations might be snore to potential voters, but business community, front and center issue. i wonder, dagen, is that his way of saying hello, help me? >> definitely a plea for money and definitely for that. his strategy is, he will have a detailed policy on everything that you can imagine. so when his opponents finally -- neil: that hasn't helped him in the polls. >> when his opponents come out, donald trump with details, been

there, done that. did that back in september. where have you been? neil: out raising money, marjorie clifton, former obama campaign consultant, reminding money guys, sitting on their hands, instrumental forcing scott walker out of the race, closing checkbooks to open them up. what do you think? >> i think so. scott walker was closest competitor. bush has taken a six-point jump over since june, measuring up this wednesday on "real clear politics." he actually did have an immediate surge. with walker dropping out of the race he shored up a space that didn't exist before and think how he diffentiates himself is exactly that. pandering to the business community. having specific policies. with a business case to -- neil: pander something a strong word but i know where you're coming from but is that going to help? are you hearing that some of those guys like scaramucci and all, are being wined an dined and wooed by these candidates? >> they're all being wood.

anthony would, if he was on, he basically said, he is speaking with everybody. they're all calling him now. neil: no way he joins jeb bush? >> i don't think so. i just think, he is very loyal to mitt romney. mitt romney feels slighted by jeb. neil: marco rubio and kasich? >> i think he stays out. neil: i don't think so. >> i think he will be neutral. you know kasich is an interesting guy and i'll tell you why. he can make the case better than jeb. when i was listening to you talk about jeb, how jeb is going to address trump and others with these plans, i was saying to myself, rather listen to dagen explain it rather than jeb. that's the problem jeb has. neil: she would yell at people. >> if donald trump said one thing that resonated through this campaign, jeb is low energy, you could come out -- neil: he says he is not. >> like i said rather hear you say it than him. neil: why the money crowd is focusing on those who have the oomph i don't know who that is yet.

if you're looking carly as alternative what do you think, dagen? >> i think you need to pick up the level of passion among these other candidates. neil: talk of regulations don't do it? >> kasich is very direct. neil: marjorie, do you buy that? who is the direct beneficiary in this morass? >> i think jeb is stepping aside differentiating himself. jeb is a cath too. i want to see how he responds to the pope's visit as well rubio. opportunities will continue to come. it will be opportunity again not to jump in the muck with all the others duking it out for each other. >> if jeb was smart he would point thing out about the pope, one thing only. talking with president obama about climate control when planned parenthood is butchering babies. excellent point. neil: we don't know what is happening with those conversations. we do know the pope has helped one capitalist institution, fiat. selling more cars than ever.

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neil: all right. that's all the time we have. to trish regan to take it on with the pope and chinese and so much. i bring it to you, trish. trish: all right. i'll take it away then. thank you so much, neil cavuto. right now on "the intelligence report," top leaders of american companies from apple to, starbucks, amazon, just finishing up their meetings with the president of china seattle, washington. why are they kowtowing to china? i'm trish regan. this is "the intelligence report, everyone. we have headlines coming to us as i speak from seattle there. they're lifting the market as little bit, paring losses there right now. the nasdaq actually turning positive. let me share some of them with you. china's president, says he is aware of risks and challenges in china's economy and he is taking measures to address them. we're hearing right now that china's xi jinping that china is