billions. would any private business tolerate this waste and abuse? a report that will make your blood boil. melissa: after two years of delay, will the falcon doors make up for the wait? we'll see. markets mixed with the dow. [closing bell ringing] dow inching higher to close above 16,000 as closing bell sound on wall street. here is look where we are ending the day right now. you can see there, the dow, up about .3 of a percent, 44 points. s&p up two point. nasdaq composite sinking after a terrible day yesterday. adding on to that crude oil higher. david: nowhere near making up, even though it did end in the green. looks like nasdaq is flirting with the negative side here. stocks maybe mostly flat today but buckle up. billionaire investor carl icahn is issuing a dire warning of danger ahead for markets. he is not alone. listen to what harry dent told stuart varney earlier today.

>> by mid-october, october 16th to be more precise we expect there to be another wave down, probably to about 15,000. maybe as low as 14,000. then we'll get a bounce, at end of the year. i think worst will come in the first half of 2016. we will not bottom in this until late late 2016, early 2017 of the. david: wow. here to respond david dietze. point view wealth management and gary kaltbaum, kaltbaum management also a fox news contributor. good to see you. gary, get your notes every day. keep them coming. i love them. look at a chart of last big ditch. i talk about the worst dip where it went from 14,000 in 2007, down to about seven thousand a couple years eightlater. is that what we're looking at? by the way look at that chart is talking about. a couple of upticks. goes down 2,000 points. goes up about a thousand.

goes down again a thousand. goes up and a precipitous drop. that is what harry dent is talking about. are we in for redo of that? >> david wall street is littered for people calling for crashes since the beginning of time. so you have to be careful about that. the fact is we are in a bear market for stocks. i do believe we're going lower. my biggest issue, harry dent probably sees same thing i am, there is still massive amount of leverage and march bin in the system. that has to come up. that creates dislocations. i do believe we can go lower over time. i suspect when the bear market is over, double what we lost already, we'll get if not more. i don't believe he is wrong. just pinpointing october 16th thing, i don't get that. david: david, double what we have lost. we lost 2,000 on the dow. are we down for another 2,000. >> i don't think so. i categorically deanyone has crystal ball.

mr. dent can not see around the corner. his track record is not good. he has economic motivation to sell you bad us into. having said that we can not rule out any scenario. that is case for being diversified. we could go down another couple thousand. you want safe portions in the portfolio. what is most likely, with 10-year treasury at 2.1, s&p 500 yielding more than, most likely path is higher dividends and higher stock prices. david: gary has a term for safe stocks you can park some of your money. he calls them the nifty 50. five of the big ones on board. apple, google, et cetera. but these nifty 50, gary starting to hurt a little. you think they will be hurting more? >> yeah. over the weekend i put out a report i thought they topped out last week. they have not been bout recently. i think they have been parked into because people were selling big money was selling everything to buy into them. now i think they're done. i think they will have aways down. that includes apple everybody

loves. just their time. bear markets tenally get every area of the market before it is done and their turn. david: very quickly, giving me a wrap, gary you think more like 1998 than 2008, correct? >> no, no. 1998 we bottomed after we undercut and went straight up. i believe we got another good six to nine months of a bear market. i do think it will be in the 30s. that is the guess. david: david you think that is wrong. more '98 than 2008, correct? >> where are you going to go? guess what, federal reserve will not raise interest rates anytime here. you have a runway. stocks are best returning asset going forward. >> i hope he is right. david: melissa, we can always hope. melissa: there you go. carl icahn seeing big trouble for the housing market. here is what he told neil cavuto earlier? >> another housing bubble now? >> i think there is. you haven't seen it yet. i say there is great risk could be disasterous. you have 2.2 trillion.

subprime debt was only one trillion and look what it did. this time you have 2.2 trillion. it is ridiculous. david: with their take what carl said, dan henninger from the "wall street journal." economist peter morici from the university of maryland. good to see you both. peter, is this a bigger bubble than what we had in 2008? >> no, i don't think it is. a good deal of debt is student debt, for example. i don't think at end of the day that debt will be permitted to just flat-out default. i think government will come in. i think they bear some responsibility. we had all these homeowners across the country integrated with the banks and the wall street people with insurance policies and derives. -- derivatives. it is special situation. i think this situation is frankly, a lot more manageable. david: dan, we have to admit, credible evidence risk is nothing like -- we were seeing ads in 2007. if you have lousy credit, don't worry come to us you can get a

loan. you don't see that sort of stuff now, do you, dan? >> that's right. the banks have not been lending that much to small market people. carl icahn said is he saw bubbles in art and real estate and high yield bonds. basically what he is talking about is the fact that we have had effectively zero bound interest rates for six years this is the greatest monetary policy experiment in the history of the world. david: but at the same time, dan, forgive me for interrupting, you also have tightening of credit restrictions by the fed, by all you may not like a lot of new financial rules but at least prevents people who shouldn't be getting mortgages from getting them, no. >> to some extent. i don't see a housing bubble at all. the question, will we get a soft landing when the fed finally raises interest rates? janet yellen and the fed caused a tremendous amount of uncertainty a week ago when they said they were going to hold off until at least the end of the year. i think that is long-term

uncertainty has got people like carl icahn so concerned about what happens when the fed finally gets off the zero bound to all that debt that it has created. david: peter, you have to admit, with zero interest debt or zero interest rates you will have some kind of bubble somewhere right? >> yes and no. let's take real estate for example. when bernanke raised rates, mortgage rates hardly moved. so much long term money came in from asia. i expect same thing because of conditions in china. i don't expect 10 and 20 year treasury rates and mortgages to move a whole lot. they will move up the short rate, federal funds rate very slowly. another big area is junk bonds. a lot of companies have been able to borrow money in the bond market they should never have been able to borrow. david: right. >> individual investors will take the hit, not banks. we'll not have domino effect in the financial system. david: okay. >> i said student loans. i see these more siloed problems. david: okay. by the way, carl icahn did speak

about the junk bonds. that bubble about to pop as well. melissa. melissa: stay with us with more. more americans concern about the direction of the country. 62% of respondents believe the country is at wrong track. what does the say about the 2016 electorate? dan and peter are back with us. more staggering number, 80% angry at political system they see rigged against them or anxious about the economy and their financial future, or both. peter, do you think this is accurately reflecting what is going on in the economy or is there something else going on? >> well two things. it accurately reflects what is going on in the economy but also a lot of people are being disenfranchised in globalized economy and also a economy where there is a lot of political correctness and president and attorney general running around doing all kinds of odd things. a lot of people feel stresses and tensions all over the place as their family incomes decline

of the we see donald trump, ben carson, carly fiorina and so forth. but it is remarkable. i think a lot more of this discontent is among republicans than democrats. democrats are clinging to the hope somehow or other hillary clinton really turns out to be honest woman so they can put in a conventional candidate and get her to win. you know, it is republicans that are going after these outsider candidates. melissa: dan henninger, go ahead. >> well, how do you account for bernie sanders? i think disaffection is on both sides of the party. melissa: yeah. >> idea that a 73-year-old social it from vermont is competing as well as he is against hillary clinton shows extraordinary amount of disaffection on left. people in that part feel the country has not accomplished what it should under barack obama. that poll said people have felt the country is going in the wrong direction for six straight years. guess what else has been going on for six straight years? the obama presidency. melissa: 55% say something is upsetting them so much they

would carry protest sign for entire day. peter, i don't think that is about just folks on the right. that is everybody is just furious about the whole situation. >> similar to the whole situation, it is whatever the particular situation that affects you. are you one of those seven million men who can't find a job? are you conservative professor who is locked up in a liberal university? melissa: we know any of those? >> i walk around the halls of the hall in university of maryland say, get off my back for being a conservative. but everybody seems to have something like that and in era of twitter and facebook where you can scream and be heard, it kind of feeds this. melissa: wow. you know what? i will come down to watch you walk through the halls telling people to get off your back. you need your own reality show, peter. i love it. david. david: peter, lose the bow tie. melissa: no, the bow tie is best part. ignore him. david: that is indicator of conservative principles. whether a bubble or not u.s. home prices rose 5% in july according to latest case-shiller

home price index. home prices risen the most in san francisco and denver, up more than 10% there since last year. hilton hotels announcing today it is looking into a possible security breach of credit card transactions at gift shops, other stores on hilton properties. that is kind of scary of the breach does not appear to affected cards used for reservations. amazon is getting in on offering superfast delivery service in its hometown of seattle. called amazon flex. it lets drivers sign up for delivery shifts picking up packages from amazon warehouses delivering them to customers in as little as an hour. melissa: so take a look at apple ending the day down 3%. losses accelerating in final hours of trading and weighing on the broader market. it marks the tech giant's biggest drop in a month. look at that chart, wow. taxing the rich more won't make it go away. results of an eye-opening new

study on income inequality. david: there is a tropical storm we're tracking, joaquin, that is taking shape in the atlantic. we're live in the fox news weather center for the latest news on that. melissa: tesla's new electric suv will be unveiled just two years behind schedule but anxious fans don't seem to care. details ahead of elon musk's big announcement. that's coming up. you wouldn't haul a load without checking your clearance. so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check your broker with brokercheck.

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comcast business. built for business. david: embracing the revolution. jeb bush unveiling his energy plan today. he is calling to lift the country's 40-year-old ban on oil exports. fox business and peter barns in d.c. peter, it is amazing this thing lasted for 40 years. >> reporter: that's right, david. you mentioned one of the key points of governor bush's energy

plan which he says would unleash america's energy revolution. there are four main points in the plan. he calls for approving the keystone xl pipeline which is of course right out of the republican playbook. he wants to eliminate what he calls overregulation of energy, specifically on fracking. and the obama administration's tough carbon emission rules. he also favors giving states and indian tribes more control over energy production on federal land. as you mentioned he want to lift the 40-year-old ban on exports of american oil. >> we've had four million barrels per day of additional production. we should sell that to the world for national security purposes, for lower prices for us, and for greater high wage jobs in this country. lift that ban. it makes no sense. >> reporter: now the democratic national committee criticized bush's plan, quote, would give more tax breaks to the wealthy, weaken safeguards on polluters and let wall street and big oil run free again, while leaving

the middle class out to dry. dave? david: looks like he has a little more energy in his stance there too. melissa: careful, careful. david: wonder who he took that cue from? thank you very much. melissa: for reaction let's bring in phil flynn from the price futures group. he is also a fox business contributor. thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. melissa: what is your first reaction to the plan? >> my first reaction he got more energy and he has this one absolutely right. for the last eight years under the obama administration we've been restricting u.s. energy boom. we should have seen a lot more economic growth because of it. we've been hampering our u.s. energy producers. we're holding it back. we're not creating jobs that could be created. melissa: okay. >> we've basically surrendered to opec because we're allowing them to bury our u.s. shale revolution. melissa: phil, everybody who makes the argument on either side says opec is winning.

if we go ahead and sell the oil overseas, people here say we're giving away our national security. that we're selling an asset worth more than money. that we should stockpile it and keep it here for rainy day. you and i both remember when the price of oil went to 14dollars a barrel and crippled economy. the saudis seemed to have us by the something scalp at that point. >> right jo so how do you respond to people who say that? >> they're living in of the past. that is the old economy. that is when we were worried about peak oil, the world running out of oil. that is not the case anymore. technology solved that problem! we're not worried about running out of oil. we're worried about a glut of oil. instead of sitting in salt caverns here in the united states, let's put it to work with the global economy. let's bring that jobs. tell that tooil worker, thousands of oil workers that will lose their jobs, already lost their jobs. they will lose their jobs later

this year. we're sitting back and we can help them. we don't have to raise one government tax to do it. melissa: phil flynn, do you think, this is 4% plan from jeb bush of course. yesterday trump was coming out with his tax plan. which do you think would be more effective for the economy real quick? lower taxes or oil? >> listen, i think oil at the end of the day, lowering taxes is a good thing. i like both of plans. put them together would be 6% growth, maybe. melissa: ding, ding. phil. good answer. david: good answer, but too safe. too safe. i say taxes but that is just me. democrats screaming out to joe, saying you are only hope. is the veep democrats best chance to stay in the white house? porsche hit with lawsuit over the death of actor paul walker. he survived the crash but he did not survive the car. more on that coming up.

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david: iconic name in the clothing business is stepping down. ralph lauren is stepping down as ceo of his company after 48 years at its helm. the fashion icon is expected to remain the head of design. stefan larson, global president of old navy will step into chief executive position. the stock is up after-hours. whether because they knew this was coming or they like the change, we're not certain but again, ralph lauren, stepping down. melissa: bracing for joaquin. the tropical storm strengthening as it makes its way towards the east coast, oh, no. fox news's janice dean is in the weather center with more. janice. >> oh, no, you're not going to the bahamas this weekend? melissa: no, darn it. darn it. >> you don't want to be in the bahamas my friend. we're concerned about this tropical storm, watching it very carefully as we anticipate the 5:00 p.m. advisory coming out. this storm might be close to hurricane strength. watching it very carefully. the caveat here is that we don't

know where it's going. we have to keep an eyeon it that is the bottom line. there is the tropical models. some putting it out to sea. others moving up towards the east coast, heading into the weekend. the waters are warm. we know that it is becoming more favorable for strengthening. but look at this cone of uncertainty. so as we get into the weekend, still hanging out around the bahamas. if you live in the bahamas you need to pay close attention. if you live along the east coast, that is that is a good idea. keep alert of a possibility of a tropical storm, maybe a hurricane over next couple days. one thing is for certain, regardless of development we'll see incredible amount of rainfall, courtesy, number one, cold front moving through area. we have flood advisories for millions of people as the cold front pushes through. regardless of development of joaquin, we potentially will see over a foot of rainfall as we head into the weekend. so millions of people here, potentially at a risk for flooding. so again advisory comes out at

5:00 p.m. i'm anticipating a much stronger storm, perhaps close to a hurricane strength. and you can see the sea surface temperatures are very warm in this area. so you if live along the east coast. if you live in the bahamas, you need to pay very close attention to joaquin. this will be a big story over the next couple of days, melissa, guaranteed. melissa: wow. janice, thank you so much for that report. we'll keep eye on it, thank you. david. david: has not been many hurricanes this year. we have a few other stories on our radar. president obama headache shaking hands with cuban president raul castro at the united nations in new york despite the leader demanded reparations from the u.s. because of economic damage they faced from americans not the mention the economic problems from a communist system. looking into reports of a saudi arabian prince at rented los angeles mansion may have victimized even more women an that the one who he was arrested for. this just latest in a string of

incident of well-connected saudis accused of crimes on u.s. soil. the daughter of movie star paul walker, who died in a high speed car crash filed a wrongful death lawsuit against porsche. the lawsuit claims that the automaker skimped on safety features. they say porsche has quote, defective seatbelt that could have cost the star his life. volkswagen's new ceo hits the ground running, trying to smooth over the company's emission cheating scandal. how successful will his efforts be? melissa: is the government paying for questionable ambulance rides. we'll tell you what your taxpayer money is funding. oh, no. that's coming up. ♪

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david: got new details on volkswagen's cheating scandal. u.s. lawmakers calling for all documents related to the rigsed emissions software. this coming as the company's new ceo took office. announcing that volkswagen will have a gameplan for its 11 million recalled diesel cars by end of october. will it come too late to save its image? jeff flock with very latest from chicago. jeff? >> reporter: nothing said, david, anybody said today will make a vw owner happy. the focus is on these engines. i don't know if you have seen these before.

these are ea-189 diesel engines. they go in the tdi, clean diesel vehicles, 11 million around the world. the question, how do you fix those to make them comply with regulations? today vw set out a plan but they didn't give out details. they said quote, they will refit, 11 million diesel vehicles. they didn't say how they will do that but by the end of october. it appears according to vw, service procedure will be needed for at least five million. bring it in. there is some sort of a hardware fix. the rest potentially fixed with the software. possible in some countries around the world, they didn't need this software because the regulations regulations were not that stringent. so the software didn't do any good. they can take that off potentially. the market didn't like the news today. the stock losing i think another 4% last time i checked. and the dow sustainability index actually removed wv or at least

will, by the fifth of october. no longer one of the top 10 most sustainable companies among automakers. last thing that would tell you is, you know, there is a lot of people that think, no matter what you do to these engines, the value of these cars will not be the same. that will be the basis of all these lawsuits. david: car owners don't like it because the fix might actually cost you more miles per gallon. that is the problem. >> and performance. exactly. david: performance as well. >> people may not want to get it fixed because there is no incentive to do that. david: jeff flock, they're in between a rock and hard place. thank you very much. melissa? melissa: volkswagen car owners are taking matters into their own hands but taking the german car manufacturer to court. volkswagen is facing two dozen lawsuits in addition to facing criminal probes into its activity. hear to weigh in, gary gastelu,

fox car report editor and david dietze, and joining us is dan henninger as well. thank you for joining us. everybody in the audience weighs thinking same thing as they listened to report. all of sudden cars out there that are broken and getting good fuel mileage and polluting environment a little bit more are worth more. if you look at craigslist, somebody thinking that immediately. you want a vw diesel with very low fuel consumption and high reliability. you can't buy one now. so until vw resolves issues. that could take more than a year. you can buy mine. they're selling for $19,000. >> that is most ridiculous thing. melissa: that is what makes america great. arbitrage opportunity. >> give them credit because i would not buy the car why? because it could end up cost you later? >> it is legal to drive the cars. nobody is going after the cars. eventually they will.

cars are pollutants, while figuring it out to come up with fix they're letting people drive these. eventually they will not be in compliance. melissa: you're the car expert. will it be expensive and hard to do. >> it will be more expensive for volkswagen. if it software fix, that will reduce power. it could cost a lot more for volkswagen. melissa: it is amazing story. very bad for volkswagen in a way wee haven't seen for a long time. >> it is. i think we've seen some of these stories in the past when some auto companies got into trouble with the government for not meeting fuel mileage standards. there is a point which i think the regulators have to take some responsibility here. they set these standards that they more or less establish in the lab. they expect a car like volkswagen with a diesel engine which is emitting both carbon monoxide and nox, another form of pollute taint at same time and get them in balance to hit

the fuel mileage standards. vw cheated but the questions are they realistic standards? melissa: real quick. the stock is getting hammered. is it a buy or does it have a long way to go. >> depends on your time horizon. lost 60 billion in market cap. it will cost ultimately more. toyotas and gm and other companies come back from these problems. melissa: tesla gearing up for long-awaited launch this evening. fans and investors waited three years for the launch tesla's electric suv. it is model. accident. it was first announced back in 2012. gary, you have to wonder, there has been so much hype, so much anticipation. now we see photos of what we think it will look like with the falcon doors. too much hype for this car to live up to or will it be fabulous. >> no. numbers look great. the car will definitely outsell the model s eventually. tesla needs this car for couple reasons. first of all it has to expand the brand and not just one car company. there is competition along the way, with audi electric

crossover next couple years. they need to get into people's garages before everybody has a chance to. everybody that buys model. accident, they're happy wit, based on experience model x owners have. they will look to buy one of the cheap teslas along the way next couple years. melissa: gas is cheap. is this good time to introduce new electric vehicle no. >> tesla is not affected by that. that is not why a tesla owner buys the car to save on gas. interesting we have barbell type stories. overhyped company and a company that can do no right. >> i don't think it works without 7500 per car subsidy that an electric car gets plus $2500 in california. melissa: these people don't care about the price of the car because they don't care about price of gas. these price of cars are really high. >> california resources board put a cap on amount of rebate that wealthy people can get

because they're trying to push ownership down to a lower level. people at that level haven't been buying these cars i don't think. melissa: no. everybody in palo alto wants to drive the tesla around and show off you're all nodding. >> using hov lane. melissa: to their private jet. david over to you. david: middle class paying for rich people's toys. look at shares of ralph lauren. the stock is now up over 4% after-hours. this is may or may not be reaction to the news that ralph lauren himself will be stepping down as ceo his company after 48 years at its helm. this news had been leaked out he would be leaving so maybe it is buy on the word of the news. stefan larson, by the way, global president of old navy, stepping into the chief executive position. for whatever reason the stock getting a nice pop after hours. tax the rich and give to the poor. that will fix income inhe quality. that is what a lot of liberal

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jo taking from the rich -- melissa: taking from the rich and give together poor, that is the way to fix income inequality, right? wrong, from a new study of brookings institute. they found even if you hike tax rates on 50% to the rich, it has no effect on income inequality. here to sort it out, peter morici, along with john tamny, real clear markets and president of solidarity strategies. thanks to all of you for joining us. peter, let me start with you, because this is math. they went ahead and used the genie coefficient which is something we learned about in economics. they went through and measured if you hike taxes and

redistribute the wealth it doesn't change that coefficient. how will liberals battle back against the numbers this time? >> by calling the me racist or calling me politically incorrect. quite simply if you tax the rich heavily and give the money to the poor in the form of, free health care, food stamps, what have you, reduce incentive the rich to work a little bit but you really encourage indough lens. if you subsidize poor people you will have lots of them. look at seven million men between the ages of 25 and 54 who don't have a job thanks to barack obama and aren't looking for work. they collect medicaid, food stamps things like that. they sit on their tails. they're happy to be in poverty. melissa: chuck, do you agree with that logic? because the math is clear but i bet you don't agree with that analysis of the numbers? >> i don't agree with analysis. i lived that story. had a single mother growing up. with a lot of food stampsps and government assistance and own my

own company in washington, d.c. i day cumulative tax rate of 40%. d.c. taxes and federal taxes. corporations say taxes went 50%. they don't pay 15%. melissa: not about corporations. this is individuals. i mean the problem, this is the problem, that is the problem you may be outlyer if that is your story. the problem you're a anomaly. in the majority, you look at it, this is not the outcome. one of the problems, john, is that, there aren't enough rich people to support that many people. right? >> well i think the better answer is there is nothing wrong at all with income inequality. it is a wonderful thing. when the wealth gap is rising that is the surest signal of all the lifestyle gap between the rich and poor is shrinking. it used to be cars, computers and cell were solely enjoyed bit rich. people got rich in this country by virtue of making them common goods for us all to enjoy. we want more inequality, not

less of it. melissa: john, i'm sorry, chuck do you agree with that. >> no, i don't agree with that. real wealth in the country since obama became came into office. stock market goes up. unemployment go down but working middle-class families not really feel that economic recovery. melissa: income inequality gotten worse because of president's policies. hang on. peter, go ahead and respond. no the math -- >> average family incomes gone down. melissa: hang on. >> americans are poorer with barack obama. they do have less income, average family than they did six years ago. you can't get around that. those are the numbers. you can dance all you want but those are the numbers. melissa: chuck, that is the number from the census bureau. how do you respond to that. >> i respond to that with other food numbers. good smart economic people should know the stock market was. melissa: poor people aren't in the stock market. >> that's right. but working middle class people like me are the in stock market. that is all i have got my 401(k). what are you doing with that

money every day people paying taxes with people going to work every day. melissa: like all of us, paying all our taxes. thank you for coming on. lively debate. david, over to you. david: indeed it was. is looking up celebrities or musicians online? might want to avoid looking up a lot of these folks. intel security announcing some musicians, usher, luke bryan are dangerous celebrities to look up online. that is because their sites are most likely direct you to websites that carry viruses for malware. for of us deirdre bolton joins us. who knew? who knew? >> looking all the searches as far as music. i don't know exactly your musical taste, not just musicians, david. even someone as random at least to me as betty white. if you do a search for some of her material, you have a higher likelihood of in the future being hacked. so it just goes to show, we all have to be alert at all times. you can not have welcome one, two, three, as your password, we

know that. with so many to put in on so many different sites, sometimes its hard to keep track. i will read you rest of the list just in case. amy schumer and and lorde. another musician. amy schumer the comedian. david: who knew betty white, usher had anything in common. >> we did them a favor, david asman. next hollywood party they are both attending they will be able to chat. david: deirdre, thanks very much. we'll see you at top of the hour for "risk & reward." not officially in the race but vp joe biden already has a very important lead over hillary clinton in one category. we'll tell you which one. we have picktures from earlier today. baseball legend yogi berra laid to rest in montclair, new jersey. cardinal timothy dolan presiding over the yankees hall-of-famer funeral mass. former manager joe torre spoke at service. shared a quote from yogi, always go to other people's funerals,

otherwise they won't come to yours. fight it. to investigate it. prosecute it. and stop criminals. our senior medicare patrol volunteers are teaching seniors across the country to stop, spot and report fraud. you can help. guard your medicare card. don't give out your card number over the phone. call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us.

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the rest is up to you. call now, request your free decision guide and start gathering the information you need to help you keep rolling with confidence. go long™. ♪ david: breaking news from the campaign trail. hillary clinton who really ticked off a lot of unions for her opposition to the keystone pipeline, because it means more jobs, she is giving back to the unions. calling for scrapping the obamacare cadillac tax. this is tax, not only helps a lot of high flying corporate executives but helps a lot of unions and union members because they had the cadillac tax. they didn't want to pay it. they had the cadillac plan, the health care plan. they didn't want to be taxed for that plan. she taketh away from unions on keystone pipeline and giveth to the unions on cadillac tax. meanwhile democrats eyeing joe biden on race for 2016. new poll finding the

vice president's most popular democrat looking at race with 40% of the americans viewing him postively. only 28% negatively. so, where does this put hillary clinton? joining me now, brad blakeman, former deputy assistant to president george w. bush. john tamny and chuck rocha are back with us. chuck, first of all, let me get comment from you on breaking news. hillary did bother a lot of union members on her opposition to the keystone pipeline. is this a way of giving back her opposition to the cadillac tax? >> yeah. let's get even refined for that, get education with viewership. ones mad are building trades unions. which unions are affected by cadillac tax? building unions. as political consultant, smart move. she made a lot of environmentalists happy and they were very, very mad about the pipeline. they have been working on capitol hill non-stop on cadillac tax that is a smart move by her. david: brad, is it enough to

push back joe biden? a lot of democrats really are saying he is only answer to problems mounting for hillary? >> no, it is not enough. unions should remember it was hillary clinton who pushed for the passing of obamacare in totality. she didn't i agree with obama care but for cadillac tax. by the way she stood silent on xl pipeline, hiding behind the state department saying they mad hadn't made determination. she is playing unions. they believe hillary clinton will fight for her she has another thing coming. joe biden, run joe, he run. what alternative to have a real race than to have joe biden, the vice president, in the race. david: john, does it matter when it comes to policy whether it is joe biden or hillary clinton in the white house? >> we think of joe biden way we think of backup quarterback in football. you haven't seen that person in a while.

the heart grows fonder for it. but then this person gets on field, you're reminded once again this person's a backup. let's remember what a political klutz biden was. of course he is popular now. hillary is in the news. biden isn't. >> people kind of like him. chuck, do you like biden more than hillary? >> i had lunch yesterday with republican consultant. i like joe biden. who doesn't like uncle joe. david: the answer is you like him more than you like hillary. >> absolutely. i like joe biden. i think he is good politician. he went through personal tragedy. he is popular story to tell. david: john, shaking your head. >> go back to the 88 and plagiarizing scandal. he has run twice and two-time loser. republicans love him running he is a one-man joke machine. david: by the way i ended with john, you have to catch john and me on "forbes on fox." that is on saturdays at 11:00 a.m. eastern time. we didn't have it last saturday

because of the pope. we will have it this saturday. john will be there along with me. we'll see you there. meanwhile whether on wall street or main street, walmart is offering more customers who order online the option to pick up orders from parking lots of nearby stores. walmart expands the free service to atlanta, charlotte and salt lake city. phantom ambulance rides on the taxpayer's dime, apparently happens all the time. details how medicare is ripping the taxpayers off time and time again. ♪

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awe believe active management can protect capital long term. active management can tap global insights. active management can seek to outperform. that's the power of active management. david: here's a new form of medicare fraud costing taxpayers million of dollars. new audit finding that medicare billing for ambulance rides. this makes me angry.

>> $30 million of taxpayer money out of door and out the window and why? they are charging medicare for ambulance deliveries not making. david: they're not even happening? >> they're not even happening. this is not ambulances being abused and misused. david: which also happens. >> they're not even bringing anybody to the hospital. the ig tried very strenuously to, searching documents, talking on and on. they surveyed. they investigated. they could find no evidence that these trips even took place. this happened, especially in philadelphia and new york, l.a. and houston where half the trips were illegitimate. i have to tell you medicare folks say the way to solve the problem, not let any new companies into the fold. i say the way to of so the problem is to fire all the old companies and find new companies. david: gerri, you know every year the inspector general of medicare comes out with all these examples of fraud, waste and abuse. in fact out of the $550 billion

we spend on medicare, estimated 60 billion, more than 10% is waste and fraud. so this will bo on. it is going on and on forever. now you add obama care to all that waste and fraud, you will find many more examples. >> i couldn't agree more. i have to tell you this 554 billion, 60 billion wasted and abused, this is money supposed to go to doctors to pay for care. people who do this what they do, set up fake practices to take in this money. it is lowest form of crime. david: today we were reporting in another development with volkswagen scandal so forth. but when you think of, over 10% $500 billion program, would this be tolerated in the private sector? >> gosh no. you couldn't tolerate it because you have to have legitimate profit, right? you can't do this in the private sector setting. too many people would be watching and there is too much pressure to do the right thing. there is too much pressure to make profits.

that sort of gets rid of that kind of problem. that is why the investigation at wv got into problem. david: if you were ever inspector medicare forget it, you wouldn't last a week, you would find so much. thank you, gerri willis. that does it for us. "risk & reward" starts right now. >> i'm giving you a reason, neil. the reason to raise rates, neil, you're building bubbles as we speak. >> there is another housing bubble now? >> i think there is but you haven't seen it. i really say there is great risk of it could be disasterous. you have 2.2 trillion. the subprime debt was only one trillion look what it did. this time you have 2.2 trillion. it is ridiculous. deirdre: that is billionaire investor carl icahn warning of another housing bubble. welcome to "risk & reward." i'm deirdre bolton. this second bubble just a daydream in exclusive interview. blackstone's john gray, responsible for $100 billion global real estate portfolio