if we could limit government constant interference we could end most poverty by letting the markets work their magic. ted is our show. i will see you next week. to se dom, thanks for being with us, have a great weekend, good night from new york. john: we need to build a wall. i also believe we need a fence. but what good will that do? >> even here they could swim right around us, they could walk around us now. >> they do, even when there is fencing. >> people get around it, they bring ladders like this one lying right next to the fence. john: suddenly europe has big border problems, too. what can they do about this? what can america do to have locks on our borders, that's our show tonight.

[ applause ] . john: when millions of people want to come to live in america, what do we do about that? clearly lots of americans want to say no to immigrants. donald trump's comments about mexican immigrants vaulted him to the top of the polls. >> they're bringing drugs. they're bringing crime. they're rapists, and some i assume are good people. john: yeah. somewhere good people, most are good people, but what does a country do about those who are not? thousands of people who say they're from syria are now pouring into europe. how many will europe take? we have borders and rules for a reason. in america, this election season most republican candidates look for votes saying things like this -- >> secure the border. >> secure the border. >> secure the border. >> secure the border.

john: most candidates said i'm not anti-immigrant, i welcome immigrants that come legally. jeb bush went further and took heat for saying yes, millions of undocumented people who are here did come here illegally, but it's not a felony. >> it's kind of a -- it's an act of love. john: love, because they're trying to create a better life for their families. that statement appalls dennis lynch who spent his own money making three anti-immigration documentaries titled they come to america. >> they rape our kids and kill our neighbors. >> it's not safe to not screen these people. >> they steal our jobs. john: no, that's totally deceitful says alex narrasta of the cato institute, alex? >> they create a lot more jobs than they take in the united states. the data is clear on this. john: that's how i read the data.

dennis you obviously disagree and spending your own money making the movies. >> you classified the movies as anti-immigrant, anti-illegal immigrant. john: you don't want to let more people in legally either. >> i wanted the legal immigration to be lowered to a replacement level because -- i don't see what the funny part was. you don't laugh when you are out of work. john: why are you laughing? >> he says he's not anti-immigrant. if someone wants to cut legal gun ownership by half, we call them anti-gun. if someone says cut taxes, we call them antitax. >> when i tell my wife to stop spending so much on the credit card, i'm not anti-wife. john: why do you want the legal immigration rate down? >> because right now we have more americans who are out of the workforce than ever before, and we also know that immigrants coming into this country in the mass numbers that they are, they depress wages. >> we can't be taking in more people until we put the american people on the pathway to the american dream. john: we used to take a much

higher percentage. >> a percentage of what? and right now putting americans on the sidelines because they're undercutting. john: you want to reduce legal, you want to reduce illegal immigration. >> i want to eliminate illegal immigration. john: isn't it much harder when we make it so hard to come here legally? >> let's go to facebook for a moment. john: let's get audience participation in. james miles wrote us -- . >> john, america takes in more legal immigrants than all other countries combined. how many people do we have to take in before it becomes too much? why don't you address, mr. think tank, why don't you address why it is wages are so depressed here in the united states. >> obamacare destroyed a lot of jobs in the economy. more regulations of businesses than ever before. more taxes on american wages than ever before.

more restrictions on people creating businesses. >> that's what your data says, your data pushed by lobbyists and by outside money that wants you to say what it is that you just said. john: the outside money are the businesses who want to hire people from other countries. >> you brought up facebook. let's look at facebook, let's look at google, look at apple and microsoft. four of the biggest companies in silicon valley who are pushing for more h1-b visas. john: some created by immigrants. >> we can't find enough workers, having such a hard time. i've been a businessman for 25 years prior to being a filmmaker. i understand one thing, if you can't find the right workforce your business can't grow. those stocks of those companies that i brought up to you over the past five years, the minimum one doubled, most quadrupled. john: they would quintuple if they hire the people they need. >> they're hiring people from overseas because they pay them far less and handcuff them with the visa.

>> they can't get the workers that they want. not just machines, they're consumers. tell me mr. businessman what would happen if 40% of customers went away and left this count gee jeb bush on the campaign trail sometimes speaks spanish. does it bother you? >> not if it bothers me, if it bothers the american people. act of love is doing well in the polls. donald trump is killing in in the polls. >> doesn't mean he's right. >> saying what americans are dying to say, he's given you the license not to feel bad about the fact that you are pro america. that's it. >> americans voted for obama, too. does that make him right by your logic. does that make obamacare right by your logic. >> obamacare is a disaster. >> stick to the issues and not the appeal what the voters voted for in the past. john: let's play a clip from one of your movies. >> they a great idea. john: a parole officer. >> this is unbelievably overwhelming, i wish the

american people had the ability to see some of these background checks that we run on people. you're not seeing the rapists, the murderers that come from other countries. you're not seeing the potential, the terrorists that come from these other countries. john: so this agent is saying he's letting the rapists and the terrorists in? what's his -- >> that agent is saying that he's very disturbed by the fact that the obama administration is allowing people to come into the country and being released into the general public 25. % of them have committed crimes already in the u.s. >> and they let them in? >> they have no choice. that's what the obama administration is doing. >> if you're worried about the issues he's talking about, you would want to expand the legal immigration system so that the door is wide enough that these folks come through legally and do a check on them. he's complaining about the government not being able to regulate a black market. john: alex, true the border

patrol guy says you committed a crime in america, they let them in, anyway. >> absolutely not. they detain them, treat them very harshly like they should treat real criminals trying to come into the united states, every once in a while they let somebody go that person commits a heinous crime and that is reprehensible. generally it's not the way it is. >> hundreds of times a day. john: no, thank you, dennis. difficult as our border problems are, europes are suddenly much worse. >> the flood of refugees continues into germany. many arriving in munich by trains. >> the migrant crisis more chaotic, hungary declaring a state of emergency in two southern counties, that move allows for the army to be deployed. john: fled brutality in syria. germany announced they would take 800,000 of them but a few days later, germany said we're closing the border for security reasons. since europe feels it can't take all of them, americans say

the u.s. should welcome more refugees, even donald trump said maybe we should. i think we should as syrian refugees have a reputation of being people who want to work, escaping a horrible place, and argue it's our fault their homes have been destroyed. the u.s. government removed the dictator in iraq. that created a vacuum that isis filled and isis wrecked their lives. but i'm just wrong about this as herb london under the london center for policy research. why am i wrong? >> i think you're wrong because in large part you forget when the surge occurred in the bush years in 2006 and 7 you could walk through the streets of ramadi and fallujah, iraq was stabilized. john: these people were killed. >> the reason why isis emerged is largely due to the fact that the joint forces agreement that should have been put in place leaving 15,000 troops there would have avoided the vacuum that you made reference to.

no question that violence occurred and isis has used savagery as a tool and instrument. but it's true this could have been avoided had the united states played a more significant role in putting troops on the ground. they're not 50,000 and 60,000 troops. at least 15,000 troops. john: 15,000 soldiers would have made the difference? >> no question. think about the isis armies, made up of kids. give me three marine brigades and say the terms of engagement of about the enemy. it's not a major military threat, it's a threat only because the united states remained inactive. john: if we were more active we would stop the chaos in syria as well and afghanistan and pakistan and yemen and libya and all these countries? somalia? >> no, but some degree of stabilization would halt the migration across the mediterranean. john: we disagree how much of a difference we could make with the soldiers, now have the refugees, you say don't let

them in? >> keep in mind, the europeans do not have a tradition of integrating refugees into the country. if you look at malmo and ham berg. john: a town in sweden. >> the third largest city in sweden that has a significant segment of the population separated from the others. john: a third of the population is muslim. and the syrian people coming in. the young men, muslim young men, that is scary, how do they check to see who's a terrorist. >> look at the area surrounding paris, you have a real problem in europe of integrating refugees. the united states is a different tradition, we are a nation of immigrants, we integrate immigrants into our society. that is not true of the europeans and there's a cultural problem that has to be faced. the muslims have not been integrated into europe and they are separate. john: you think you know why. >> one of the biggest reasons is welfare state.

you can show up in europe and get on government benefits immediately, you can get public housing, segregate you into a part of the city and european policy in the cities. countries segregate them to protect the cultures, it's a crisis created by the european welfare state. john: we think america has a welfare state and we do, and encourage people to be dependent. europe's is more generous. >> and some of the worst ways. john: far better than we. >> suppose your a hamburg businessman, merkel says not only take care of your family, you're obliged to take care of the public service employee in greece who wants to retire at 52. now you got the surge of refugees coming into the country. john: here's what they get in germany, almost $3,000 a year cash, free language classes, housing costs covered.

it's humane, they say. >> since the surge has begun they cut the cash benefits in half for the asylum-seekers, partly in response to the worries and putting a lot more emphasis into job training and trying to get them into the labor force. >> the cultural problems i made reference to lead to a disaster. europeans have to look at matter differently. john: how many refugees from syria should america take? >> there's no reason not to integrate the people into the society. we have a problem in the united states as well, go to dearborn, michigan, communities in virginia, there are separations of muslims in the united states. >> thank you, alex and herb. coming up, the stupid american law that makes it harder for us to police our borders. and next a smart guy makes a case for open borders. utterly open borders, let them in, he says. really?

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(ee-e-e-oh-mum-oh-weh) (hush my darling...) (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) (hush my darling...) man snoring (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) woman snoring take the roar out of snore. yet another innovation only at a sleep number store. . >> would you like to go for a walk to america? follow me, i'll take you to america. it's just this simple. john: he then walked through a

drug smuggler's tunnel from mexico to america. it was that simple. that tunnel has since been closed. just 25 years ago, though, latin american immigrants had no need for tunnels because most of the border was wide open. jeffrey tucker of the foundation for economic education says the border should be wide open now. so instead of calling for more walls whenever you can, just open it up? are you nuts? >> john, it's not working, the war on immigration is not working, a practical ban and look at the consequences, people don't have legal ways to immigrate, we have an illegal immigration problem. no different from the bootleggers in prohibition, people want to use the government and the rights to do things, the government figures out a way to stop them. there will be no ceiling in the border. i'd like to see us go the other way, chill and open the borders like it was in the past. >> by the past, really the

1800s, we went through years of completely open borders and built the most prosperous society in the world. john: i understand half your argument, and clearly people want to come here and they can't. we have the lotteries, they get 100 applicants for every one, if you want to come here legally and you're an indian computer programmer, you wait on average 35 years. >> that's the computer programmers, forget it if you don't have an education. john: a mexican teenager, 140 years. you can't get in legally. >> it's tragic, and it's not just a violation. i think it's inhumane but a violation of rights of americans who want to hire people. john: two things, people want to come to freeload because we have a welfare state and some people want to murder us. >> all of that indicates welfare use among immigrants is far lower. we have a ban on welfare for -- >> five years. john: for five years. free schooling and if they go

to the hospital, they cost money. >> they earn low wages and qualify for reduced price school lunches and they get them, and then we as americans go look, they're on welfare. well, not really. they are also paying an enormous amount of taxes, a lot more than they get in public benefits. >> hundreds of thousands of people would pore in. >> millions, it would be beautiful. that would be consistent with the 1800s, and as i say, it was a beautiful system and it worked. john: so we have a smaller percentage of immigrants now. >> it's tiny, we have a virtual ban, ramping it up, tightening the controls, increasing the government, the surveillance on american business. john: europe taking all these people won't cause problems? >> aside from the current refugee crisis, europe constructed a successful extreme, open borders. john: the guardian, europe is falling out of love with open borders. >> yeah. >> the telegraph, west europeans want to end open borders. >> they have a gigantic welfare

state, much larger than ours, and that has created tension. i'm from texas and remember driving across the border to mexico when i was a kid and there were no controls. like welcome to mexico, and it was beautiful. the system works very well for everybody. john: but times have changed. >> because the government changed them. >> starting in the 1920s, it was a wicked policy, i think we abandoned it. this is the 21st century, a digital age, free trade means not only free trade in goods but free trade in economy too. john: ed robbins says open borders have been a catastrophe for europe, a growing catastrophe for america, what makes one society obligated to pay for the failures of

another. >> if we would chill out and open the borders, i don't think we'd have the kinds of issues. >> what if people want to murder us? the terrorists? >> for the most part, john, there are bad people in the world, but you can make too big a deal out of that. i think it's mostly propaganda. it's nativist hysteria. i would love to see the borders open up in the same way i wanted to see alcohol repealed. people who recommended that are considered crazy, what are you a drunk all over the streets? here's the problem, once you get rid of freedom it tends to be difficult to get it back, people can't imagine how it would work, but freedom is wonderful. when you allow people to make their own deals with each other. 95% of immigrants are working and they're working because americans want to hire them. they're doing wonderful things are in country. with freedom things work out. john: i want to ask you, are any of you buying this? do any of you want to have -- >> yes! yes!

>> boy, i say you've got almost half the audience here. >> that's awesome. look, i think this argument it sounds radical but it's really not. it is the american tradition. john: until 1882 when we levied a head tax for the first time on 50 cents on each immigrant and excluded idiots, lunatics, convicts and persons likely to become a public charge. >> almost impossible to talk about the history of immigration restriction without addressing the subject of racism and white supremacy. john: there was a chinese exclusion act. >> begins with the chinese, and the origin of the war on drugs, by the way. john: thank you, jeffrey tucker. most americans might not like his argument, most think our national borders are sacrosanct, mostly because people got drunk. with we return, my next guest will explain. that

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online and on the usaa app. . john: most americans say it's important to protect our borders. except why is our border where it is? why is this town part of mexico or that town is part of texas or arizona. who decided where america ends and mexico or canada begins? turns out that many of our borders are where they are for bizarre reasons, especially state borders. audience, do any of you know why texas voluntarily gave up the panhandle as part of oklahoma? >> no. john: okay, or why the tennessee-kentucky border, pretty flat generally but has this little blip in it, why is that? i didn't know either until the author of the book lost states explained our strange history to me.

the author is michael trinkline, they're not logically prepared the borders. >> they are silly, most of them. john: texas gave up property to oklahoma, why? >> it wanted to be a slave state and you had to be a slave state had to be below a certain line, the 36th parallel so gave up a slice in the nonslave territory. the problem is the whole area had no government and outlaws haven. "new york times" called it a paradise for themes. >> and texas was much larger and its own country for nine years after it gained independence from mexico? >> the fun thing about texas when it came into the union, got a special clause written in there, and any time want its can split into five states. texas is way too big. look at a map. it doesn't fit, way too big. john: and must be stretched north to what is now wyoming.

>> originally it was a huge chunk of territory, and an independent country until they joined the united states. john: but they were broke, they needed money and sold off parts of the united states to pay debt. >> they did. it was kind of a dance to get texas in the union, we wanted them, and we wanted that buffer. john: kentucky-tennessee. so by and large the border is pretty flat, except it's got this blip called the simpson offset. >> when a surveyor goes through in that time frame, 1700s to 1800s, it was pretty accurate. wherever they lined that line down, that was the permanent line. there was the incentive to say hey, survivor, i want to be in this state or that state. what happened is there was an iron ore thing it started going to the south. mr. middleton did not want to be in kentucky. he said here's the deal. i'll give you a keg of whiskey if you put me in tennessee.

[ laughter ] >> and that little notch just for him. john: let's look at utah as utah once looked. the mormons wanted to form their own state, and it was as big as that? >> yeah, but the federal government had an issue with the mormons, you can guess what it is. john: polygamy. >> yes. john: and theocracy. brigham young had 55 wifes. >> yes, and he wasn't alone. they would slice off whatever was the mormon land because of a prejudice against their lifestyle. john: and wasn't until 1896 they said we give up polygamy and were admitted as a state. >> if they hadn't done it then they would be the size of rhode island because they kept making them smaller. john: why does idaho look so weird? >> it is a franken state. i can say that, i lived there 20 years. there was a large part of idaho

that was montana until territorial governor wallace got drunk and gave it away to montana. he got hoodwinked to giving it away to another state. john: and another state called jefferson. >> jefferson is one that went pretty far. john: northern california. >> northern california and southern oregon, if understanding about it northern california is -- well, southern california is cars and movie stars, northern california is forests and big foot. it's a totally different area and so it makes sense to split it up. nobody thought ca cald stay that big. in early december of 41 they were starting to have protests and petitions and then pearl harbor came and that -- they burden of proof to make it a state, the japanese attacked, now we have california. >> but they're still trying. john: thank you, michael, i find that fascinating. next, why do we even have states? what good are states? plus the self-destructive rule

that makes it tougher for us to secure our important national borders.

. john: now that we've heard some of the weird ways that state borders were formed, it makes me wonder why do we even have states? 50 states or 57 as president obama once said. anyway, america was a brand-new country, why not just have one country? why a bunch of colonies that became states? because people came to america for very different reasons and wanted different rules. some like the pilgrims came to flee the kings onerous rules, the jamestown settlers wanted money, maryland was established as a place for catholics to practice their religion without being persecuted.

different states were free to experiment. their colonies became the states we know today, massachusetts, virginia and so on, but how many of you know of the state of poppal or fort san juan? those obviously no longer exist because those experiments failed before they could become states. that happened to a lot of colonies back then, they went bankrupt. colonies just disappeared. now america prints money and governments keep their bad policies, but the original colonies survived because they had good ideas that worked. and this is a reason the people say -- >> the founding of this country was based on the laboratories of democracy which were the states. >> state laboratories of democracy. >> let people decide state by state. john: yeah, the states have the freedom to try things, the best ideas win. because people can leave if they don't like one state's policies. and we should have more of that

says camille -- kmele foster of freethink media. >> public schools are not mandated by the federal government there. are states where various states and county governments can create their own policy. they taylor the policy to the particular needs of the particular community and get to see what works. if your school district doesn't work particularly well, one, they're closer to you, so you have a better chance of changing it, and two easier to move across county line than the national border of a particular country. john: another experiment now is drug legalization, marijuana legalization. >> sure, absolutely. we've seen a couple of states in the union do something crazy like legalize marijuana, but in places like colorado we haven't seen the dire consequences that are predicted. >> they would horrible things would happen, burglaries are down, violent crimes are down, the "washington post" reports

highway fatalities in colorado are near historic lows. i thought all the stoned people were going to crash cars. >> hasn't turned out that way. john: of all the presidential candidates the one contempt use of legalization is governor christie, he sneers at experiments. >> colorado, you don't want to enforce the federal law, you don't have to. john: is he going to have tanks go into colorado? i'm not sure. >> i hope not. john: he makes a good point about the immigration law. i thought that was for the whole country, but you have the sanctuary cities. >> not that every state can do what it wants all the time. this interesting. if we want the law to be respected, we probably ought to be legislating about things about which people are likely to pay attention to the federal government for as opposed to this law doesn't make sense for the way we live here, our entire state, a majority of us think this doesn't make a lot of sense, we're going to do

something else, that's an important thing to take notice of. john: supreme court said the kentucky clerk kim davis can't do that. she goes to jail. >> if i am unwilling to do a particular job, fire me. if i'm unwilling to do a particular job, throw me in jail, i'm not surn i like that outcome. john: they could have fired her instead of throwing her in jail. >> totally, absolutely. john: you say it's important that people have voice and exit. >> right. you have a better opportunity of changing policy if it's at the local level and you have an opportunity to leave and go elsewhere if, in fact, again, the things that are being tried out are tried out here and not all over the place. john: and sometimes we learn from these experiments because they go bad and then the whole country doesn't suffer from it, i see the gun bans in chicago. 1981, they banned really clamped down on handguns. crime went up. other states learn from that and pass conceal carry laws, now doing an experiment with

the minimum wage. >> there is a federal minimum wage, fortunately it's low enough that it's not the sort of thing that tends to mess with every single state, but in some states we've seen states and local governments as well raise the minimum wage to as high as $15 per hour. john: we'll get to see that fail and they'll be embarrassed and stop doing it? >> well, we'll see what happens. they may try to hide behind, it but we'll see. there's a better chance of it getting gone at the state level as opposed to the federal level. john: thank you, kmele foster. coming up, i'll tell you about a stupid law that makes it more impossible for america to secure our borders.. >> secure the border. >> secure the border. >> secure the border. it's one of the most amazing things we build and it doesn't even fly. we build it in classrooms and exhibit halls,

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rated #1 trading app in the app store. it lets you trade stocks, options, futures... even advanced orders. and it offers more charts than a lot of the other competitors do in desktop. you work so late. i guess you don't see your family very much? i see them all the time. did you finish your derivative pricing model, honey? for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this. . john: now it's time for our audience to push back. do you have questions or comments for pro-immigration, alex. anti-immigration dennis lynch. or state competition advocate kmele foster. first from facebook -- david asks -- you want to take that?

>> sure, so since 2010 mexico liberalized immigration law, allowed people to come in legally into the state, they allow legal immigration from central america. they used to be known as a harsh immigration enforcer and to their credit they opened up their law and to a lot more better things in that direction. john: go to the studio audence, yes, sir. >> kmele, do you think the minimum wage laws will be bad in every state or some states it will work, and others they won't work? >> depends on the level of the minimum wage, right? if you said $100 minimum wage you'll have a tremendous amount of unemployment. if it's a $5 across-the-board minimum wage it's not going to matter much, almost no one makes that amount. john: from google+, ron harvey says -- .

>> from the very beginning, if you look at first immigration laws like the chinese exclusion act in 1882 which did exactly what it says, that was the beginning of illegal immigration, started to come in from canada, to mexico to lie, the beginning of illegal immigration and true up until today, when they started to stop wowing nonviolent free people to come to work. john: and people started to cheat. >> yes, sir. >> why are so many people welcoming to refugees but when it comes to mexican immigrants they're not happy with the idea. >> more americans are happy than it seems. millions are fine with working next to mexicans, hiring them, buying products from them, being their neighbors, we are focusing in on a small number of people who say a lot of very nasty things. >> if you look at donald trump, you could laugh all you want, he's laughing all the way to the gop nomination. so i think that maybe the data that you want to take a look at. i think the polls ultimately

tell the story. john: he's saying we welcome syrians not mexicans, is that true? >> i think that americans welcome immigrants week welcome legally as long as we can choose who comes into the country. john: yes, sir. >> i'm against illegal immigration as well, when you talk about limiting legal immigration, isn't that diametrically opposed to meritocracy. john:. >> right now we have a lot of americans who are suffering. a lot of americans are struggling, they don't want to struggle. if we could just limit the amount of immigration we're taking in right now, we would absolutely open up more opportunities. john: but what about his point about meritocracy? >> you're going to pose the questions with that sort thing because you want to make it look like i'm anti-immigrant, just the way you introduced me was anti-immigration. john: i watched your film! i will tell you what. >> i will guarantee both my

legs you haven't watched all my films. john: okay i haven't. >> you haven't watched any of them. john: i watched clips. >> border patrols sit there every single day so you can do the show and you are going to criticize that. >> doesn't the danger of the entire enterprise have something to do with the illegality of coming to this country if you happen to be born in mexico, want to come to the united states to work and to obtain a better life for yourself. >> if you make it illegal, you make it dangerous, the only people who dare to do it are armed thugs. we have a hodgepodge of people coming in here without abiding to our laws. we have laws for a reason. a lot of times people say we are a land of immigrants. i like to change that a little bit. i like to say we are a land of laws who welcome immigrants to come in and follow the laws. john: thank you. alex, dennis, kmele, coming up, the really stupid self-destructive law that makes it so hard for us to enforce our borders.

. john: how many wars can america fight? our presidential candidates want stronger action against illegal immigration. >> secure the border. >> secure your border. >> secure the border. >> secure the border. john: okay, we should secure our border, but the same

candidates want tough action against drugs. >> you're against marijuana legalization. >> yeah. >> drugs are discouraged in this country. >> what happened in colorado legalizing marijuana. >> a big mistake. >> why is it a mistake? the bad things predict forward colorado have not happened. crime is down, there traffic accidents are down. but regardless what you think about marijuana legalization, the drug war, a, hasn't worked, supplies of drugs are up anyway, and b, the war increased the illegal immigration that they say they want to stop. that's because our drug war turned many immigrants' homes as a questioner said before into hell! >> an eruption of deadly ambushes freak shootings, home invasions, assassinations, kidnappings brought chaos from juarez to tijuana. >> 49 found dead, dismembered bodies scattered on a highway

from monterey to the texas border. john: honduras is living in emergency, says the president of honduras, the root cause the united states and colombia carried out big operations in the fight against drugs. leaders of guatemala, colombia, costa rica and bolivia are pushing back against our antidrug tactics, hillary clinton calls the money spent on operations in america money well spent. as usual she's close minded and wrong. our drug war creates the carnage that makes latin americans abandon villages to try to come to america. the drug war drives them north, that then increases resentment against immigrants. >> they're bringing drugs. they're bringing crime. john: yes, some do bring drugs, most wouldn't bring crime if they and u.s. citizens could do business with each other legally. today we try to keep illegals

out by building evermore expensive fences. >> standing between that city and san diego, one of the most heavily fortified borders in the world. not one, but two fences. agents everywhere. john: but that still doesn't keep illegals out. our border with mexico is more than a thousand miles long. >> most of the border is not fence. >> that's correct. john: even here they could swim right around this, they could walk around. >> and they do, even when there is fencing. john: people get around it, they bring ladders like this one we found lying right next to the fence. we found dozens of abandoned ladders next to the fence. >> when it's hard to go over, they go under, they build amazing tunnels. >> they have electricity, they have ventilation, they even have a rail car that brings the drugs from mexico to the united states. >> reporter: this tunnel was found and the whole operation busted just before it went into use. and even though it's unique in

depth and size, the only sure thing, say agents, is another one somewhere that's probably being dug out right now. john: right. that's what the agents say. yet the government after every drug bust claims we've made tremendous progress. >> here we are. here again. john: listen to this drug warrior. >> event dealing a stunning blow to the mexican cartel that built it. here we are two years later in virtually the same scenario playing out again. john: what? he says destroying the tunnel was a stunning blow to the cartel. but he admits the cartel just builds a new tunnel and they're probably six more they haven't discovered. so what's the point? does the fbi listen to its own comments? we called him to ask. he didn't reply. this whole process, raid, destroy, dig, build, repeat, is just one more pointless activity that happens when government tries to suppress

something that is very popular. our law makes it an ordinary weed valuable. our drug war funds the criminals who build the tunnels. and those tunnels also smuggle in illegal immigrants. it's a literal underground railroad to the north. in an age of terrorism, we want as much control over the border as possible. our failed drug war makes that much harder. also, today when the border patrol makes a drug bust, it's nearly confiscating a drug that's legal in colorado and washington state. this is just nuts. the drug war yields death, dislocations of populations and enrichment of murderous cartels without reducing drug abuse and makes it more likely that illegals will sneak into america. we're fighting a war on drugs and a war on immigration, and we're losing both.

we should admit more immigrants legally and stop the drug war. that's our show. see you next week. [ applause ] a a a a a a a a a t for time life's video collection. (soft piano music) well, hello. i'm carol burnett and i'm here at cbs in los angeles at studio 33. come on in. (tv show announcer) from television city in hollywood... (jaunty theme music) ♪ ...it's the carol burnett show! (carol burnett) this is the stage where it all began. we shot all 11 seasons of my variety show here. you know, we made so many great memories. but no one has seen the first five seasons of the carol burnett show since they were first aired. no reruns, no web streaming,