she says obama has no plane or strategy to keep america strong and safe. that's what you had to say about various aspects of our show today. and she had a lot more to say, we just don't have time for it. but neil cavuto, the time as yours. go for it . neil: are you saying if you had more time, you would have kept running those. >> yes. neil: i just wanted to check. thank you, sir. stuart, varney. we've got some interesting developments. the surge of those unconventional candidates, you heard about donald trump coming down a little bit, on top of another development here of about other unsurging candidates who are just outside that political petary dish, including one ben carson who earlier on was defending his outside the mainstream stance telling me he thinks he's got what it takes. take a look. >> campaign they're going to raise, you know, and all of this stuff there's the stuff that you're well-known for. but that -- when it comes to

these thorny issues, particularly these international popped up, you're not. >> well, you know, i could very easily say, you know, bad things about them and things that they haven't done. but the fact of the matter is i'm not one-dimensional. you know, i spend 18 years on the board of directors on kellogg 16 on the board of directors of costco. how many of them have done that? i don't know. but i can tell you one thing. a person who knows how to solve problems can solve problems in lots of different arenas . neil: and apparently the poll public seems to agree. let's take a look at the states where polling has showed a distinct carson surge and a distinct trump downside here. that does not mean that donald trump is in trouble but for now, it is the closest he has ever been in some of these fielding surveys as we rifle through them. again dr. carson's argument has always been that he brings a different set of experiences to the table. not the least of with which

his ability to separate siamese twins. the first guy in the world to do that. so if he could separate them, he could separate capitol hill. that's his take on things. so we've got charlie gasparino here, and david mcdow who has been following all of this. the idea that outsiders still rule, it's just not the run that was ruling by such a big margin. >> i think that you've -- you run the danger of you've seen that this episode before over and over and over again and at the end of the episode somebody gets fired. you hear the same rhetoric over and again. some of the same insults. i think that that is hurting donald trump to a certain extent. also i think the more he talks, he is going to get himself into trouble. i would point to the comments that he made about syria saying let russia fight them . neil: right. >> well, that is president obama's strategy with syria essentially is to create a vacuum and back away

and that's what's caused this resurgence. so the more he talks, the more he might get himself into trouble . neil: clearly, is it so much that he's getting hurt as much as others are surging? he stays kind of around these levels. is that his feeling. >> maybe. i always thought 28 to 25%. you know this better than i would. and here's why. they're public polls, the private polls now, if you talk to people like i do that have -- some of my sources on wall street are raising money for rubio and jeb, they would tell you those private polls are a lot tighter, his lead is not that great. neil: those front two states. >> yeah. now, we should also point out it does show trends and he's not a flash in the panel like, you know, herman cane or michelle bachman. unlike donald, ben carson is intellectually gifted -- donald is intellectually

gifted but donald does not want to read up on stuff. one of the interesting things about donald is he's doing seed of the pants. ben carson won't have a problem of being briefed and reading up on foreign affairs . neil: but he also said some dumb things. >> yeah. he said unpolitical things. ben is not particularly a good candidate. donnell is a amazing, amazing. >> you mean campaigner. >> well, candidate . neil: the rap against even these early front runners is that they'll suffer the same thing. >> yeah. you're going to see. possibly see that. i think what impresses me about ben carson, though, is that his lead in iowa in particular is without any media help. this is a guy who has been doing it by himself . neil: well, by that 78,000 he has made multiple appearances on multiple medias. >> well, he has but he hasn't got an the positive stories that carly fiorina has, for example. he's waiting for that. and if it happens, he's in a very good position to overtake

trump at that point . neil: the fact that he hasn't melt melted away, do any of you that find revealing? >> i think it helps him that donald trump's in the lead because donald's style is so much different than ben's that ben talks in a very smooth way. >> not very smooth. >> no. but it is in the sense. have you ever met someone that kind of talks like this and then you have to lean into them to hear what they're saying and they talk like this. neil: cnbc. >> good point. >> it's a way to pick up women in bars neil and it's very -- >> also a way that a doctor talks to a patient, very good bedside manner . neil: but is it helping him raise money? >> here's what i would say about him. the republican base likes him, they don't care about his

gaps, trump r's different. they become sexist and outrageous to a point are -- you know, ben carson's gaps are, like, wee vote for a muslim president . neil: his are not in the outrageous. >> and most republicans, if you talk to them, would you vote for a muslim, they say, no. neil: we've gone from summer flirtations to who can deliver the goods. >> who wants to . neil: well, i'm just saying i'm following the money and looking at the end of quarter sums all of these guys are raising, substantial for ben carson. >> yeah. neil: substantial for people like ted cruz, carly fiorina what do you make of that. >> let's compare and contrast bernie sanders and ben carson a lot of felony small donors. however, ben carson has a super pack. a very powerful super pack and bernie sanders has said he will not take super pack money. and in iowa an incredible network of supporters based on homeschooling network within that state and that's why you

see him i will still really high. >> there is lots of money out there. i think in the end it's going to be who can sell themselves the best? . neil: but what does that money crowd look for? who's going to win? >> yeah. i understand but they want to make their investment pan out; right? >> well, absolutely. neil: so do they look at these polls now or say, hey, i can see -- >> they also want to know who's serious? how do you plan on spending this money? and in iowa and other places fields is paramount and if donald trump shows if he's spending a lot of money on fields, it means he's a serious candidate. >> he's not. >> exactly my point. neil: if you are betting money on ben carson. >> right. neil: i think that's why i'm going to lead with this today, i think there's a seminal shift that happened over the weekend where we just realized he is getting that money, he is getting people plunking down dough. >> there's two races going on right now. you have the race of the outsiders, . neil: right.

>> even though they're in the lead and the race of the establishment. the race of the outsiders they're all for individual donation . neil: right. >> and that's ben, carly, trump, to some extent cruz. he straddles both. . neil: right. >> and then you have establishment, rubio, jeb, who am i leaving out? >> kasich. he fell oif bed in new hampshire. >> those three are for the wall street money and, you know, until we see where this thing is going in a couple of months, it's -- i don't think we're going to get much clarity. >> but you were getting ready to say that the field work for carson's campaign is iowa is formittable . neil: and how did he have that? did he have that? >> that was our problem. neil: so you were not able to knowledge leverage off the success. >> right. and that's something to keep in mind is we were leading in the polls in iowa up to a week before the caucuses and then we came in third because there was no field operation. >> think of it this way. neil: i'm sorry that means that the passion -- >> the passion doesn't always

translate into votes. that's the key . neil: so it's a good segue to our next segment to talk about what happened to democrats. the passion for bernie sanders might not translate. >> that's right. and you've got the two donor bases for both of those. where do they show up? those -- they will decide who will -- who to give money later on and that person is going to have money . neil: well, they're looking for a clearing. now, we're talking about the democratic side, on some clinton donors who were getting very nervous about hillary clinton and to draft one joe biden. now, this is the week we're told that he's going to make a decision and very likely to go ahead and run. do you buy that? >> i'm not certain because if he does make a decision, the idea is that they want to try to include him in the first debate. maybe we'll find out . neil: he could decide that morning and he'll put him on

the debate. >> that's what they're saying but there's concern for the bind camp that it would be better to prepare for further debates . neil: you're nodding your head. what do you think. >> he needs to prepare and and wanting to be prepared for debates . neil: well, if he doesn't take part in the debate -- >> he's still all over the news. he doesn't have to be part of the debate. i know the policies inside and out. you want to be entertained. you're not going to get that entertainment factor without trump in your debate. and i'll say this. i don't believe he could raise the money to win . neil: really? >> unless hillary clinton -- neil: unless some of her supporters. >> i agree. completely. >> joe biden gave a speech at the concordia conference last week and according to people who saw it and heard it, the last half of it was his stump speech, and it wowed and was

full of pizzaz and people walked out of that room and said not only is he running, he will be a terrific candidate. >> are you getting the feeling from your sources and the democratic party that they actually want to support joe biden over hillary right now? i don't think. >> no. and people love joe biden. his popularity is at 77% but a distant third in the polls. so it's people love him but they're not going to vote . neil: go ahead. >> are you going to say you're going to vote for him even though he's not technically running . neil: it looked good in the far once in the race, far from good. is there a sense that you're getting from the people that you talk to that the very crowd who he would apparently run over, the union crowd who don't really much like hillary clinton, ironically he is much closer to this administration and this president than hillary ever was or is on the very trade deals that they find to be so objectionable. >> that's true but also he may be able to pick up some of

obama's other voting blocks. the black vote is very much a question mark when it comes to hillary versus joe biden race. >> i don't know about that. i don't believe that. >> and, by the way, who knows how barack obama is going to behave. >> i don't believe that -- i don't believe joe biden is going to appeal to black voters better than hillary. there's no record of that. >> within the democratic party, no. i mean clinton . neil: well, can i ask you a dumb question, guys, we have the dow over 200 points and a lot of people think what you read in the wall street journal this morning that we hit an inflection point with the come back on the dow on friday. i don't know how these guys. my only point is this. if the markets come back, if the fed holds off on raising interest rates, isn't that the win that hillary clinton -- >> no. because if the fed holds on of on interest rates, in my opinion, . neil: yeah. >> they're doing it based in the face of economic weakness.

now, the markets mike like that but there's nobody else to go but take risk in stocks. but the bottom line. . neil: what do you think? >> you need to defend a democratic candidate, steady job growth, maybe not great guns job growth, unemployment rate that stays where it is if not a little bit lower than right now and volatility out of the stock market may be moving up but you cannot have those kinds of wild swings . neil: as steady as it goes. you point out as well, this isn't a great recovery, but it is steady. and it's weak as far as prior recoveries by a long shot. but it is what it is and a democrat nominee can come up in the summer of next year and say what you know? we were at 10% now 5% unemployment. we were losing jobs that are rated 200- $300,000 a month, and now we're gaining. that's what they're going to point to. what do you think? >> they don't want to mess with it. like you said, steady as it

goes . neil: so isn't that in hillary clinton's favor? >> i think not touching the rate is probably better for hillary. anything that keeps the economy on a steady path. >> i think this economy is much more gray. i don't think you can . neil: what did she, no, i agree with that. >> but if it smells bad, the president will get in front of a microphone and say it's the republicans fault that the job growth is weak. it's the republicans fault that -- neil: well, that started -- >> certainly he's got a point. >> we've done some. we've done all, we have a very robust one but the point is there -- neil: you can never approve that. >> well, it's the argument. if there's a lot of volatility, that's bad, people get nervous, they want to change. >> the party has not had a spokesman in a long time. john boehner and mitch mcconnell, but they're going to have a presidential candidate that's going to make the case that this economy -- neil: forcefully or not. >> yeah.

neil: you could argue mitt romney did not. >> john kasich knows how to make that argument i think and that's going to be tough for hillary clinton to debate him. neil: we'll see. guys, i want to thank you all. you don't shout at all. >> you're not mean to me today. neil: oh, all right. look at this. a lot of shouting at the wall, we have the dow up over 122 points. again, it depends on what you read and whose sentiment that you buy but steady as she goes and we've been through the worst of it. i caution, i urge, i shout, i scream, don't put money on that. there might be other reasons going on here and the fact that the companies have so ballottered down their estimates for third-quarter growth that all they have to do is breathe and they're off to the raises races. that storm joaquin didn't hit us but serious rains to the south. that is proof if you needed that you don't need a hurricane to do serious damage.

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. neil: all right. you don't even need a category two category one, category anything hurricane, if it doesn't touch us but the rains still do, you've got problems, serious problems, and oz jonathan the president it in. what's the latest there? >> hi, neil, well, right now i'm standing on the bank, you can see that there are still some raging floodwaters but the water level has reseated significantly and that's allowing people to return to their businesses and inspect the damage. look at the shopping center here as you zoom in, you can see some of the front doors have been pushed in. that's from all of the pressure of the floodwaters that i'm told were perhaps eight feet higher than you see

them now. and as we zoom over here, you can see some of these cars that didn't get out of the way in time, this car's windshield smashed in apparently from debris that was carried by the floodwaters. so it just shows how dangerous the situation was. now, although the floodwaters have receded significantly in the past 12 to 24 hours, we're not in the clear yet. what's happening is all of this water that came down through the rivers here in columbia, it's now heading downstream toward the low country. governor nicki haley just wrapped up a news conference where she was explaining that authorities are going to be staging along roads and bridges along these rivers along these tributaries leading to the low country and as needed, they will be closing these roads and bridges that are likely the flood. it is going to be a very fluid situation. you're going to see a lot of changes.

so authorities are still suggesting that if you don't have to be out and about, to stay at home. neil . neil: all right, jonathan, thank you very much. to follow up on what he was saying, governor urging them the closure of 550 roads and bridges in and around the state more likely as one incapacitates the other, it's like a domino affect and has jonathan has emphasized stay indoors. if you don't have to go to work, don't. the coast guard is saying that that freighter that sunk the container ship. 33 onboard including 20 americans, they are looking for survivors, and they have to found life jackets and the rest but no signs of human life. all right. we'll keep track of that on the very latest we're getting also on this

vermont amtrak derailment. not getting any reports of casualties just that there was a derailment and we'll keep you posted on that as well as russia and its syrian air strikes. and the very sure sign that these are going to continue. russia's in a recession. that's all you need to know. we'll connect after this

neil: all right. a look at the big board right now where we're at around session highs here. a lot of this has to do with the belief, you know, we can live with the federal reserve not hiking interest rates for a while as long as its steady as she goes and we don't over due things. that factors in a perfect environment in which war is a possibility in the middle east, syria doesn't completely dissolve and we get in a superpower conflict. yeah, all of that goes as planned then maybe. but now all is not going as planned in syria, and vladimir

putin is pushing, and a lot of people saying why would he push this and why would he risk war or an accidental disruption with the united states doing what he's doing right now? look no further than russia's economy, which is in a recession, down 4% in the latest period. that's all you need to know. pretty desperate. when i look at that, i can understand why you would have vladimir putin doing what he's doing, but it's got to be a risky strategy; right? >> yeah. it's a risky strategy but putin is not about the economy. putin said in the past that the greatest tragedy of the 20th century was russia's removal of great power. that's what putin's about . neil: so this is about remaking russia power; right? >> this is about remaking russia as a great power as his threats in the baltics, his move on georgia a few years

ago, what the russians are doing in ukraine right now. that's all about returning russia to the status that putin think so it deserves. very dangerous . neil: no. i hear you. but i also wonder if it's a great wizard of oz deflection, pay no attention to the man behind the curtin, he's got great recession, we're losing money hand over fist, average russians are feeling that economic pinch. so this is a great distraction, isn't it? >> well, it's a distraction but there's not a great deal that he can do about the russian economy. nobody wants anything made in russia except people who want their weapons and you can't really say that the oil is made in russia or analogous. that's just pulled out of the ground. there's a certain amount that he can do with the economy but not much. he can make himself look powerful but that's absolutely consistent with his stated goals.

so that's completely what we should expect, and it's exactly what he's doing . neil: you know, maybe help me with my memory but other times he has caused a global dust up, oil prices have risen just on the scare. that is not happened since his encouraged in syria. do you think he's surprised or are you surprised because that is his currency when all is said and done. >> there's lot of a lot of oil out there . neil: yeah. >> as you've reported on your show and the demand has -- the demand and supply have responded accordingly . neil: but normally there's a scare. normally there's at least a temporary even short-lied scare in the markets that listen up briefly. we haven't really seen that. >> no. we haven't seen that. and i don't think he's counting on that. i think he's got a very clear objective. and it doesn't include quagmire's the way president obama talked about it yesterday.

quagmire is where a country doesn't really know where it's going or isn't sure of how to get there and putin knows exactly where he's going, and he has a pretty good idea of how to get there. it's no way at all like afghanistan where we were helping the fighters who were . neil: what did she the afghans then, he doesn't want to repeat that. >> he has no chance of it. . neil: all right. well, i'll take your word for that over mine. seth, thank you very much. good seeing you again. >> thank you, neil, . neil: all right. we pay attention to these markets as we're up about 219 points. there is another catalyst for this and that is the third quarter earnings that are going to start coming out with vengeance today. i believe alcoa typically kicks things off. but here's what happened. over the last month or so remember we had a horrible august and the craziness in the markets especially the end of the third quarter. the feeling is that so many companies ratcheted down their expectations, that they even

meet them to the upside, they're going to be taken as sort of, like, big surprising surge. it's sort of like like that game i used to play with my parents in the school. i would tell them before the report card came. mom, dad, straight fs. and if i had a c or d, i was einstein. not that that ever happened. unimaginable. but, in other words, you surprise them to the upside. that is what's going on and that is the problem. expectations are so low and that is something that really bugs ben carson. the big interview with the beg searching candidate on that and how do you get american confidence back to where it should be in the next half hour? but ahead of that, the economist who said forget about the fed hiking interest rates, maybe this year, maybe next year, how about never? like, in ever, ever, ever? after this

at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like playing the boss equals the boss wins.

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neil: take a look at the dow. owing all down. stocks participating. we will detail that in a minute. there was a brief time late last week. we got down to 1.90 on this. three year mortgages and the rest. back over 2%.

now i want you to meet a con amidst. he got some headline fame. maybe ever. he did not support the view that they should not move. the fact is that he does not see that happening now. also joined by dagen and connell. what is your argument? >> the economy seems to be slipping away a little bit. i guess that bernanke was on tv talking about the two months of slower jobs, especially private payroll jobs being slow. it just feels that everything this committee has done is one of delay. keep dishing it out and pushing it out. neil: she held off. >> i think that it was a financial market stress.

a couple weeks before the meeting. too close to the august 24 / crash. that drop that morning on china. i think it was a little bit dated. now, exports are dropped away. it is kind of playing in their camp right now. the boston fed president closely aligned with bernanke and yelling. maybe we were right to put it off. it sounds like to me he would rather just as well wait. >> we are not ready for 1% rate hike. a series of hikes. >> i think that if they hold off, if they hold off anymore they have to be aware of this, most certainly.

they are signaling to the world that the economy is a great deal weaker. if they do not move to the end of the year, that means more downside to the market. you want to be everybody's friend. >> i am very likable that way. >> this would be great. i think that the fed will raise its rate at some point. [laughter] >> there you go. neil: what you are saying is they should be doing it. they should have done it. >> why do they keep calling it the great recession? it is not like the great depression? it is not like these job losses in the early '80s. the unemployment rate is very low. they make it seem like they have to tiptoe around because of the great depression.

>> i do not know. i guess the old bond market vigilantes. you are not attacking inflation. the opposite way. >> people using all of this cheap and easy money. inflation would skyrocket by buying up all of these commodities. guess what, it did not happen. the bubble in that is collapsing. neil: this whole interest rate environment. >> i think it all depends. it sets us up. kind of an interesting burning season. everything kind of sticks. whether it is china, europe, any kind of fact that is out there. will they be able to jump over that hurdle? neil: they sharply lowered their

own growth forecast. in terms of the fed here, we do not want to go too crazy. >> thank you. [laughter] >> we do have two more job reports to go. we do kind of live month to month. >> i have some numbers on that. >> 167,000 jobs. falling below that mark. >> did you see, the former research of yellen. but for the jobs number, 100 or 150, that is good enough for him. see what is going on.

jobs will probably slow anyway. neil: not a bad idea. >> it has everyone thinking if it doesn't make 200, we are toast. >> exactly. >> i think they move. absolutely. >> at some point -- >> i will guarantee it. >> when i you running for office? [laughter] neil: all right. when we come back, a takeover at ge. could it really happen? how an investor just acquired a two and a half million state. gas prices when we come back. ♪

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♪ neil: session highs for the downright out. a lot of that to do with growing interest. maybe, maybe we don't have to see those rate hikes anytime soon. maybe ever. charlie gasparino is focusing on other developments. getting an interesting investment. >> not now. 2001. nelson peltz. a big activist hedge fund should

manager. he does not like taking order from people. he has a big investor. one of the biggest investors. it is powerful. we should point out that right now they are both on the same page. making it smaller. making it more simple. if they keep this plan, what is ge trading at right now? it is up somewhat today. if they keep going this means -- neil: when he does that? >> peltz is saying that will be a $45 stock. he is making them know that i am here.

>> much more than an activist like bill ackerman. i will tell you this, if they do not do it, that is where the rubber meets road. they come out together. they have been doing interviews together. they are on the same page right now. ml keeps doing what he is doing. making it much more simple. a $45 stock. neil: how much more can he unload? >> first of all, he wants a bigger buyback. >> because there is a lot of money that they are not using. >> you could sell other stuff. what i am saying is, if ml does not do what he wants them to do

or keep on the path that's going on right now-- i would say or keep doing it at the pace he has been doing. he has been doing a lot of stuff lately. he will probably be there for three years, by the way. neil: the longest reigning chairman. >> getting the stock up to $45. keep doing what he's doing right now. neil: charlie gasparino. what does it take to become a future president. who better to talk to him a celebrated actor. a great voice. you have to wow people. who are these candidates that are wowing you? ♪

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♪ neil: a lot of attention, not only on the dow, but on this. the outside candidates doing quite well, quite frankly. including carson. looking at iowa and new hampshire. he is on with me next. how an outside candidate, no real business experience. a trained neurosurgeon. head and shoulders above someone that is political. how the candidacy can still pride in this outside government. entertainer and actor based on longevity alone.

it is not the kind of guy you want to tell. everyone was grasping straws. those people are now gone. i am happy to see you. you argue that sometimes you need to bring a little pizzazz to that candidacy. >> being able to sell a message to people. not only that, i analyze these candidates as if they were acting students in life. i want to see where find often to city, and passion, someone who i feel has a strength to go up against a putin. a combination of all of these

aspects. i like carly fiorina. she is interesting. when she talked about planned parenthood, the tone of that, i understand the outrage, but she could have adjusted that. find me. do not give me your anger. give me your compassion with that. take a breath on that. by attacking the american people, you push them away. i am looking at the general election. then carson is a very thoughtful human being. i like his --

>> i felt -- >> absolutely. does it trouble you that carson is that? >> how it plays out is different. you never know. for me, the reason why i respond to it, right now i am feeling donald trump. besides his divisive comments that people pick apart sometimes, the essence i think of him being able to send a cultural message in the general election will reach more people. they all have plans. we have seen this, neil, for how many years. neil: they are not very detailed.

>> never happened. i feel that an outsider that is not a politician, and i like carson's coverage, he showed courage. it is incomparable with the u.s. constitution. >> i forget who it was in los angeles. saying that it was compatible. how could it be compatible? >> any other candidates out there? kristy comes to mind. what do you make of that? >> i met him when mae whitman was running. i did not get a warm and fuzzy feeling for myself.

that is not to say that he is not. it could have been something. who knows. obviously, he's a clipped. he is passionate. he is forceful. this is very early on still. there is another tone that comes across. that tone is what it was when i met it. in spite. carly is likable. for me, if i was analyzing him slow down. give me your thought process. do not give it to me like a harvard the student. these are things that i just want to tell him.

neil: could predict people. not so bad. keep that in mind any candidates that go the other way. carson on all of that after this. ♪

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that's the power of active management. neil: we are still focused on that surging dow off hours. what if i told you a guy named vladimir putin is far more interested in this. oil prices. trending up just a little bit of late of what is going on in syria. the feeling seems to be an increased corridor in the middle east. it is his currency to keep in mind. all of these developments and how he would handle vladimir

putin. he was not focus on oil or markets. take a look. >> backing down from putin right now. we need to make him aware of the fact. we will not alter our flight patterns. we will not be restricted by anything that he says. same thing with ground. i would establish a no-fly zone along the turkish border. we do not want the forces to be in that position. that will increase the possibility of an international incident. i will be talking to putin. if he continues with this that entity, we will use all the facilities that we have available to us to inflict pain on him.

if vladimir putin is going after isis, let him. >> i do not want to allow vladimir putin to expand his influence. >> do you think that trump is being naïve? >> i do not want to talk about trump. i want to tell you what i believe. we need to have a global strategy. we need to be talking about all of eastern europe. we need to be challenging him there. more than two army brigades. we need to have a missile defense system reestablish. he was horrified when it was there before.

>> you said, you kept to this, you do not want to talk about donald trump. he wastes no time wanting to talk about you. why don't you listen to this. >> will anybody be able to do the jobs that i am going to do? absolutely not. i would love to have that. absolutely. >> you think that he is a tough negotiator? >> that i do not know. neil: bringing us back to this serious issue. that is not your wheelhouse. that kind of thing is not what you do. >> he is welcome to have that belief. i believe as the american people have more opportunities to see and hear me and hear my solutions which are based in logic and evidence that they will make the correct decision.

neil: the fact that you have been bracing a lot of money. and all of the nominations. this is mike huckabee. >> if you are going to have surgery in the morning, do you want a doctor cutting you open that has never been in the operating room? do you want a pilot flying in the left seat of the cockpit who has never flied and airplane, but has played some video games? neil: i think what he said is you are a fantastic doctor. leave it at that. >> everyone thinks that whatever they do is the most that the listing. that is human nature. i understand that. i do not get involved in that. neil: you are great.

all of this stuff is stuff that you are well known for. when it comes to these issues, you are not. >> i could very easily say that things about them. the fact of the matter is, i am not one-dimensional. i spent 18 years. the chairman of the board. started a national nonprofit. all 50 states. one major national award. only give into one organization. a person who knows how to solve problems can solve problems and lots of different arenas. neil: apparently been a drawl to a lot of the people who feel you are a different kind of

candidate. now that your candidacy problem. half of them are online sources. what do you think is going on? >> for one thing, we have a very active social media. it gives me an opportunity to interact with a lot of people. an opportunity to do this. reinterpreting them through media. the only thing that they do consistently is get everything wrong. people are starting to think for themselves. i think that that will be the salvation of our nation. it was thomas jefferson who said that we would get into this place. somehow the people would break up and realize what was going on. they would once again take control.

>> in this debate going on with the economy it has prompted a lot of folks to say that we are heading into something bad. in this environment, the only prescription might be, you have argued for that, you differentiate how far you take those tax cuts. everyone should be paying something. what do you make of that? >> well, i think that everybody should have skin in the game. having something to say about what the others have to say. to me, that seems basically unfair. in terms of our economy, the

situation is awful. this has been going on for quite some time. the labor force participation rate is at the lowest point in 37 years. i do not even know why we go on around talking of an unemployment rate of 5.1%. anybody that knows anything about economics let's talk about the numbers that make sense. >> there are two schools of thought on that. stimulating growth to get taxes going. can you really depend on just cutting taxes? republicans too busy tripping over themselves. >> there are a number of things that would have to be done.

>> you look for instance at what is happening with the fed in the suppression of interest rates. what the impact is. that has been suppressed for going on a decade now. joe, the butcher used to take 5% of his earnings and put them in the bank each week. when he was ready to retire, he had a beautiful nest egg. he is not encouraged to do that anymore. the poor in the middle-class are stuck. the only people that can grow their money are people who have risked tolerance. use ebay, gap growing. it cause everybody the same. who gets hit disproportionately. the poor people in the middle-class.

you have people coming along. it is the rich people that is the problem. you can take every penny that the top 1% has a dual flight to our fiscal gap of $200 million you have not even made a dent. neil: talking about the overall debt that is out there. those middle-class voters voted in large numbers for barack obama. nine out of 10 for democrats. jeb bush was recently quoted saying i will offer black voters hope not free stuff. what did you make of that? >> well, i think that that is what we all should be thinking about. lots of change, no hope. i think that that is why you have all of these situations. >> is that where you find the

free stuff comment offensive? >> i know exactly what he is talking about. it does not do any good to leave someone in a state of dependency and just give them thanks. not to provide a ladder which allows them to extend and become part of the fabric of america. we must be particular particular about that right now. we are competing with china and india. this needs to be a national strategy. how do we do this? neil: all right. doctor carson. the anti-trump. very measured in his words. which of those anti-establishment characters went out. what do you think, gina?

>> i talked to my conservative friends that have repeatedly stood up against the tide of the establishment. i am hearing the name lester. as in dan webster. you are talking about president not speaker. neil: i do not know if you caught the interview that we were doing prior. i am getting. >> the names that i hear are still the antiestablishment names, neil. hearing a lot about doctor carson. i am still hearing ted cruz. >> three outside of the box candidates. i think his critics would readily agree with that. do you get a sense that someone like carson will be a kinder

gentler, maybe more powerful outside of the box candidate? >> i think that there is no question about it. the american people are not stupid you they listened to doctor carson. they see an interview like that that was very well done. able to give measured responses. they know that he will shake things up if he were to become president of the united states. at the same time, they do not see the bluster. they do not see the hyperbole. they see a very measured tone. the kinder, gentler, disruptor. they do know that then carson would dramatically change things if he was fortunate enough to get the nomination. neil: really? almost to call, to measured.

the no drama obama criticism. the president is often faulted for not getting agitated. we need more drama. we need guys who will get very very nasty when they have to be. what do you think? >> i have seen it to be true. i am not sure it little stability is a bad thing. as long as it is not a compromise under the guise of stability. the temperament does. a doctor like that i would love.

he would say, neil, i think it would be a good idea for you to lose weight, but you do not have to. you know what i am saying. without the a good or bad quality. >> behind clues stores. i suspect that doctor carson would ramp up the energy, if you will, in the appropriate time and place. i want to get back to gina's excellent and really solid point which is, the people falling in love with doctor carson. keep in mind, he burst on the scene by very calmly, just totally undermining,

step-by-step. like he was performing surgery on barack obama socialism. the mac in front of his face. the american people have not seen that guy since mitt romney's first debate with obama. neil: obviously a surprise. gina, to you as a voter obviously, do they want someone more in your face or someone who is just outside of the political spec from? >> looking at doctor carson and donald trump. it is an astonishing amount of money. ted cruz being the one willing

to take on the establishment. >> another outside of the box. back to this ongoing flood in south carolina. joaquin is long gone, or is it? double go

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possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. i just had a horrible nightmare. my company's entire network went down, and i was home in bed, unaware. but that would never happen. comcast business monitors my company's network 24 hours a day and calls and e-mails me if something, like this scary storm, takes it offline. so i can rest easy. what. you don't have a desk bed? don't be left in the dark. get proactive alerts 24/7. comcast business. built for business. neil: we are just getting word that feces sabathia aztec himself into an alcohol rehab center. he put out a statement he is receiving professional care and

assisted to treat my disease. i am also aware that leaving at a time that we should all be coming together is hurting some people. i know it to myself and my family to get myself right. i do not know whether he was supposed to pitch tomorrow against the houston astros. he will not be at the game. he will not be at any of the remaining games this season. c.c. sabathia is getting some alcohol rehabilitation help. a guy that earn some top dollar. a quarter of a million dollars / year. similar round next year. need some help. it happens to us all. storms happen to us all. including joaquin. it appears this thing is way out to sea. we're we are not done with it yet. what is happening now?

>> we believe it was hanging out to see. we made that change thursday morning. i do not think this season is over neil. even though we have this el niño coming, people say that el niño will stop it. it did not stop joaquin. this is something that we were outlining at the beginning of the the further north that you go, the better the chance that these storms can get strong this year. neil: what does that mean? it does not mean that you have to have hurricane force wind. >> this is what was fascinating about it.

this nor'easter, the upper air pattern. it just captured joaquin. we looked at the situation study and said no, we think that this is going out to see. an overwhelming amount on the models. this would have added to all the problems. first of all you still have the flooding down in south carolina from the nor'easter. secondly, you had a bad nor'easter along the coast. it is an unheard of even feared i cannot find anything like it. by the way, i said something thursday, i will say it again. this winter season.

as far as the rest of the season goes, we have a very warm atlantic ocean. a pattern that is conducive. perhaps producing another tropical cyclone. i do not think that it is over yet. if we have anymore any more details on what appears to be a joe biden residential campaign. a guy that is trying to literally make that happen.

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to receive tanzeum free for 12 months. make every week a tanzeum week. neil: all right. up about 261 points, near session highs on this day. 16,734 on the dow. all major market averages are up. key components are up. some calling bounceback monday that markets much of the prior month and last quarter were getting shellacked. hard to say. they are giving optimism revised third quarter earnings when they spill out today, will be better than estimates out there. i must stress that those

estimates have already been revised down. in other words, they had been expected to go one way. then we had a bad august. awful september, awful quarter. a lot of companies came out and said, you know what? we'll be lucky if we grow at all. it is off that base, most analysts think stocks will do better than thought. all what the estimate is. meanwhile, what all the mojo tells you for joe biden because consensus seems to be building that the vice president is challenging a campaign for president. guy wants to have it, steve shell, part of draft biden movement senior advisor. good to see you, sir. have you gotten word back from the vice president if he will do this. >> neil, we're in the dark like everyone else. only one person on the planet knows is joe biden and we're waiting on him. neil: he mass a very busy schedule, a lot of political events packed in of late.

that would seem to telegraph a move but what do you think? >> i think the vice-president always traveled actively for this president. he pretty much lived here in florida between 2008 and 2012. i'm not sure pace of schedule is different for him. we definitely feel like he is getting out there testing the waters. he is going through the motions you would go through if he is getting ready to run. neil: why not hillary? why are you interested in drafting the vice president? >> me, personal affinity for the vice president. he was kind to me during the obama campaigns. he has been good to my family. he is genuine guy that we need more in public life. i think he is more electable candidate. neil: why is he more electable? i heard expressed prior to campaigns, don't mean to besmirch the man he ran two lousy campaigns. he was earlier frontrunner in one and torpedoed out and out in the second one. got 1800 votes in the nomination process. barack obama picks as his

running mate. woman who got all billions of votes had to settle at secretary of state. i don't mean to cast aspersions from anyone where is the magic you see in the campaigning past to suggest he could pull this off? >> that is very different time. 1988 is 20 years ago. in 2008 he was running against two, arguably three, rock stars in my party. in those days john edwards was still credible guy. neil: that's true. >> there wasn't much oxygen for joe biden. there is much bigger national profile. he frankly engaged. had been in the administration. has had a chance to spend six years building national network of friends. neil: one thing i thought, if unions and some other types are leery of hillary clinton and trade deals, he is closer to the president on some trade deals they find to be such anathema. wouldn't he be potentially bigger target for same unions who don't flip over her?

>> i think a lot of unions are waiting on sideline to make a decision. neil: right. >> joe biden is guy been a brother to labor unions most of his career. >> part of an administration that is not, at least in terms of some unions done deals that help them, right? >> sure i think if there was concern about joe biden they wouldn't wait on sidelines for him. neil: fair enough. that is a very good point. steve, thank you very much. keep us posted and we'll keep you posted. >> same here, neil. neil: you heard ben bernanke has a book out but what he is saying in that book looking out at 2015 financial crisis raising eyebrows, his comment, his regret more of those financial ceos didn't go to jail, after this. ♪

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neil: ben bernanke has a book out, the former fed head. as we approach, seven years after the financial melt down, he is trying to justify what happened back then and decisions he made back then, when we were in the middle of this free fall. still expressed a surprise. don't want to give whole book away. only halfway through it, that more wall street insiders were not locked up and put in jail. charlie gasparino is here. lizzie macdonald is here. gary kaltbaum is here. lizzie, on him speaking out now about this, first, to more of these guys should be in jail comment, what do you think of that?

>> not just after the fact refereeing. department of justice and sec tried. they investigated these firms. the accounting rules allowed for this community reinvestment act, number of press presidents and congressman tried to fix income inequality by giving everybody a house. being brave with your book release after the fact. i will probably read it as well. he is saying i wish i communicated more. that would have fixed things too. what he was communicating there was no subprime crisis colling. financial insolvency of major institutions. doesn't see it. two months before fannie and freddie collapsed these two will weather the storm. i don't know what more communication would come to fix the crisis. neil: easy to communicate after the fact. you be in my shoes. they were difficult shoes at the time. >> two points to make. the federal government should have put more resources prosecuting these crimes.

it made a tactical decision at justice department, particularly southern district, preet bharara. going after insider trading instead of this stuff. he does have point there. my bigger point, i remember covering financial crisis in late 2007. bernanke was at jackson hole big financial conference someone whispered in his ear this is anecdote in my books and we have a credit crisis on wall street. he had no idea what was going on. look at testimony of bernanke, paulson, geithner -- neil: geithner was new york fed president. >> big -- if you look at their testimony -- neil: paulson was treasury secretary. >> obviously ben bernanke was fed chairman. you look at testimony in hank greenberg case which is sealed but i got my hands on it, they had no clue the train was coming down the pike until literally the last minute and they scrambled.

neil: gary kaltbaum, the argument after the fact, this is where bernanke echoed this in prior speeches and conference and the like, look we were flying by the seat of our pants. we were melting down fast and furious. we were seeing what stuck. i'm sort of trivializing here. all of this qe and quantitative easing easing and buying up treasury notes and bonds and interest rates near zero today that was a means of propping up global financial system falling out of bed. in retrospect, do you think he was right? had he not done that we would be in deeper doodoo now? >> look i think there is no doubt something had to be done. he was guy who made the decision, but here is the problems. he is taking victory laps on a race that is not over yet and we have every economic statistic, every data point, every asset price based on 15 to $20 trillion of printed money. zero percent. neil: where would we be without that, guys?

>> banking system was insolvent. here is how you look at this. they needed to do what they did but you have to ask yourself you know, tarp qe, buying securities -- you know basically, nationalize banks without nationalizing putting direct equity investment. neil: he trivialize the that. >> the question, they had to do it when they finished. you don't know what i'm saying until it comes out of my mouth i'm resigning. >> if you have to ask why it took them to the final hour to do it, and ben bernanke is responsible for that. >> we just talked about that in the green room. i know what you're going to say. >> the green room. not before camera. >> issue at hand, i beg your pardon, i hear what you're saying. ben bernanke saying more people should have been on a perp walk? closest came, who? angelo mozilo countrywide. neil: he subprime mortgage problem.

>> didn't account the justice department spent enormous resources going after insider trading. neil: the crisis ended with some guys going to jail, that is what everybody wanted. >> diverted all their resources. neil: gary, do you think it set up expectation on part of beleaguered groups, student behind on college loans, auto companies, it did open up the spigot, that was the start? maybe with perfectly sound intentions but that is what happened and we're never the better for it? >> gm, what they got, at the point everybody wants something. biggest problem is, if you do not punish bad behavior, eventually will happen again. same players doing it in 0, 08. wall street is about full and fair disclosure. there was no full disclosure back then. neil: full and fair disclosure in congress, my friend. they were the ones who propped this up. >> they set the stage for it. neil: set stage for getting mortgage like it was birthright and not a goal. there were many hands.

>> only way after the fact did we have ability or department of produce sis, preet bharara moving in to do wiretaps. hang on, let me finish. could have been more perp walks. could have been more fraud investigations i agree with that, what i'm saying this is massive accounting fraud the rules actually did allow. this is hard for sec and fbi and justice department -- >> they did not use any of tools they use on insider trading to track these guys. they didn't use any wiretaps. >> that's my point. >> they didn't want to go after until -- neil: gary, final word. >> the iron any of all this, they screwed savers and gifted all the money same people, the banks that did all this in the first place. amazing to watch this in real time. neil: the book will be best-seller. >> i'm buying it. neil: halfway through it. pretty good. i want to thank you all. meantime, everyone invokes name of ronald reagan. we need another great conservative leader. do you know who paved the way

for ronald reagan? a guy named barry goldwater. he was angry conservative. ronald reagan was happy-go-lucky conservative. why barry goldwater's son that just ain't fair and just ain't right. ♪

>> it is time for your fox business brief. i'm connell mcshane. there you go. market rally mode. that's what we're in today. s&p 500 for up five days in a row. i've been counting. into market stats. this may be the longest winning streak we've had in the market since december, with a d. story stocks. how about twitter today? just about 28 bucks. up by 6%. jack dorsey will indeed be permanent ceo, as permanent as one can be a ceo of twitter. so the market likes that. we're looking at stocks to talk about. six of them in the s&p 500. one thing they have in common, consumer related. three of six are to the upside. trust me they all hit lifetime highs. nike is one dow component, and i know it is lower but it hit a all-time high. biotech is party-pooper, one area that is done. neil back with "coast to coast" in a moment.

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powerful tools to fight it. to investigate it. prosecute it. and stop criminals. our senior medicare patrol volunteers are teaching seniors across the country to stop, spot and report fraud. you can help. guard your medicare card. don't give out your card number over the phone. call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us. neil: what the with steve jobs move, there is one that gets out, none to do with steve jobs who made ashton such -- kutcher in the last movie. why is there dust-up? is>> there is push back from his wife.

she was not on board with the authorized biography written by walter isaacson and this is adaptation of that. >> isaacson's book was great readable book. neil: he had talked to him. >> of course for a long time. steve wozniak, cofounder of apple consulted on this movie. according to the journal they paid him 200 grand. there is some credibility. the reason his widow will not be happy, reason people in his family will not be happy elements of steve jobs's personal life reported on in the past are not exactly positive things. first daughter he had, woman with at the time. apparently a lot of that in the movie. neil: he was not a nice guy but he was a genius. any shockers here? >> not necessarily shocking to me because he is the creator of the most valuable company in the world. to do that you probably have pretty strong personality traits that have been well-documented by lots of different journalists

but aaron sorkin who wrote the film, coming out of this friday, based on certain stories. taking three different slices of job's career. all the stuff comes from before even iphone came out. it is legislative look. neil: we knew he liked to throw things. >> people will say this hurt his legacy. will a new generation of people who didn't know steve jobs or didn't follow it closely, when he came back to apple, will they think of him differently? yeah, they might, but key point is, that it is story for so many successful people. we should be able to separate success in, whether it is an athlete or movie star or business person in their business life from problems. talking, it is not related at all. talking about cc is a bath yaw -- c.c. sabathia, is normal person. we have great day at work or awful day at home and vice

versa. neil: i don't throw things at people. maybe you do. >> well, whatever. >> look it is natural for his widow to feel like that too though. deeply, deeply personal -- neil: did she not like the book came out even though that -- >> yeah, she didn't like it. >> doesn't seem to be, she is not -- >> she was quoted saying if it is based on that book it is not true. neil: really? even though he was literally reading transcripts of interviews in that book. >> a long-time relationship with walter isaacson, biographer. >> i don't think they liked any of the negative personal stories. he is a public figure. people have intense interest of it. i'm not opposed sitting home friday night watching reruns of the west wing on netflix written by sorkin. anything else you need to know? >> how many episodes in are you? neil: i wonder what for tim

cook, that was passionate energetic guy in your face. you're not? >> these moves very and books don't take away from the fact apple is performing very well, but apple is facing uncertain future in innovation with the products. looking at long-term play. this is one interpretation of so many. that is the bottom line for jobs. >> most recent scene they look at is 1998. long time ago. of the three scenes. neil: interesting, maybe not bash ton sucher is not playing him. conserves looking for another ronald reagan. there was bigger guy before him. does anybody remember barry goldwater? his son does. so what about that stock? sure thing, right? actually, knowing the kind of risk that you're comfortable with i'd steer clear. really? really.

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neil: you know, to hear republicans tell it, they're looking for next ronald reagan the conservative icon who can

take over the white house by storm and change washington anew. rarely hear them mention name barry goldwater, 1964, as republican nominee, set the stage for one ronald reagan 16 years later. doesn't barry goldwater, jr. know it. we talked about this in the past, on the phone with us right now, that your dad never gets that same kind of conservative icon status obviously ronald reagan did. a lot of due to your dad going down in defeat at a time lyndon johnson was very popular. ronald reagan went on to a huge victory with a president that was unpopular. but does it bug you? >> no, neil. nice to be with you again. neil: same here. >> no, that doesn't bug me. that is part of politics. if you're a winner, people remember you. if you lose, you're forgotten and thrown back into history. but you're absolutely right,

senator goldwater, my father pretty well, in 1964 redefined what a conservative is when he took over the party and pushed back the eastern liberal establishment. but ronald reagan went on to win based on those principles. neil: you know, you think about that moderate, liberal establishment that ran the republican party, it took 11 years to shake it off. they held on with ronald reagan's first threat with gerald ford in 1976. finally 1980, amassed conservative troops and went on to landslide victory. do you think that would be possible without your dad? >> there will always be leaders come into politics of this country. there were conservatives before my father. and there are conservatives after. but, timing is everything.

he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. he came in in 1953 on the coattails of eisenhower. neil: that's right. >> believing that america was founded on principles of liberty and freedom. that flick still exists today where you have madison versus jefferson. today it is msnbc versus fox. "wall street journal" versus "the new york times." neil: i see what you're saying. we're crunch for time, my friend. i apologize for our studio difficulties. the time make the man or the man the times. i don't think ronald reagan would have been possible without your dad. that is my view. thank you, barry goldwater, jr.ge wee have a lot more update on the dow after this. active management can seek to outperform. that's the power of active management.

neil: all right, if the stock market is worried about a bubble building with interest rates or bonds or junk bonds, they have

funny way of showing it. dow at or near session highs, up 260 points. which might be a bit of a surprise from carl icahn worrying about the bubble forming. trish regan will get to the bottom of that in the next hour. trish: thank you so much, neil. donald trump threatening to quit the race if his poll numbers drop. i'm trish regan. welcome to "the intelligence report." now all of sudden ben carson is gaining on him and now a fresh national poll has sars son in the lead, seven points ahead of trump. but this is a guy who wants to win. we know he wants to win. if he is not going to win he says he may not run. >> i'm not at masochist. if i was dropping in the polls where i saw i wasn't going to win, why would i continue? if i were doing poorly.