charles? >> a yummy pick, white wave foods. >> xlv, health care stocks down not out. >> if you overdo the food. ben? >> i'll take the s&p 500 again for the millionth time. love it. >> you have to say it millionth time. is that really necessary? all right. we continue now on the place for business, fox. >> damn good pick. first boehner and then mccarthy and now chaos and some here say the conservative revolt in the house is actually going to be good for taxpayers. are they right? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. steve forbes, rich c a argad and steve japson. you think the uprising is good for taxpayers. how so? >> two ways, david. they will have more imagination and good parliamentary maneuvers and battling with president obama on taxes and spending, the debt limit are coming up again in the next few months.

people like paul ryan, jeb hensarling. they're into policy and setting the foundation for the post-2016 election. these people to succeed boehner in the leadership in the house are very interested in policy, pushing the next president if he or she doesn't do it on their own. >> fair and balanced. that's the best face to put on it. bruce, when's the worst face? >> well, i don't think that, you know, the people who ousted boehner and apparently ousted mccarthy, they didn't want to do anything. and they haven't really accomplished anything. i mean, if they would have gone along with grand bargain with the president, you would have lower corporate taxes right now and i don't think -- i don't know what they'll do. they haven't accomplished anything. >> mike, some people say if you don't accomplish anything that's good for taxpayers. >> the reason why they're having this uprising, david, because when they were elected in congress they haven't done what the people who elected them asked them to do, to put a stop

to obama's reckless spending and contempt for the constitution. you get somebody like jim jordan in there, a man of principle, did not vote for the crazy spending bill last year that went right through the debt limit and added to the deficit and then really start to see more money going to the private sector and start to get the economy back on track. >> rich, is this good or bad for the taxpayer, this chaos? >> it's good because mccarthy would have been a disaster. we know already he can't communicate very well and brings up the point. you not only have to have great policy as steve talked about ans pled people, you can have to have people to articulate why it matters to the american people and connect it to the economic growth. >> well, before we dump all over what boehner did and for all the dysfunction in the house and i agree there's plenty of it, deficits actually have come down under the tenure of boehner since 2011. spending also -- it hasn't

really come down but not rising at the astronomical rates it was. >> yeah. sequestration, success of what was going on in 2013 and didn't hit the republicans. they were successful in 2014 in the midterms. you're right. the budget deficit coming down. 426 billion down from 2013. here's the problem with what is going on. the federal government is way too big. we can't afford it. the american people know that. that's what they're angry about, the freedom caucus knows about. and what is going on is the house was creeding the constitutional power of the purse to the president. >> that is right. >> that is a problem. so the american people know that our taxes will go up in this very costly government. so it's not that they weren't doing anything. they were saying, the house members saying, when's going on is totally wrong. >> sabrina, i think she hit it is nail on the head. the constitution about the power of the purse in the hands of the congress and more and more in the hands of the president.

>> well, right. that's why i think we have to keep our eye on the long term and we need to have -- conservatives if they want to really rein in the progressive state and implement more free market policies they need both the white house and congress and so this kind of chaos is good up until a point. right? some point it is no longer good because you're going to lose the confidence of the american people and if conservatives or republicans can't demonstrate to work out the internal factions they're going to alienate huge swaths of the american public that want them to cooperate. >> steve, they say you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs but if you have a lot of eggshells in the omelet, that's no good. the point is at the end of the day, what do taxpayers have to show for all that's happening in the house right now is? >> well, since they don't control the presidency yet, the fact of the matter is you're not going do get a big, good tax reform and you can lay the foundations for it. meantime, help promote that and

showdowns you will have with obama on spending bills, on the debt limit and new budget bill because they didn't in the senate didn't pass budget bills, didn't pass appropriations bills and they can do a lot of good ground work and disciplined and move ahead. >> they could have had a corporate tax discount working with the administration. but the administration, you really think they want lower taxes on anything? i mean, remember they had -- put together -- president put together a great committee, bipartisan committee on taxes. recommended lower the tax rate. the president threw out the report. >> i think there has to be some give and take and whoever is in there has to get some democratic votes and i think the president goes along with it. here's two things. >> they don't need it. >> no. the medical devits tax. say they said okay we'll repeal the tax if you raise taxes on the hedge fund guys, that's awash and ruin the deficit. >> even democrats complain that

the president doesn't come to them to talk to them. i don't think there's any tax cutting at all done as long as the president's in the white house. he just doesn't seem to be interested. >> look. this guy obama's made it clear, david. his way or the highway. right? if he can't get something passed it's an executive order, right? not just taxes here. you know? this new congress if we get the right leadership here, we can help businesses and we could help families here. you know, talk about this president uses the epa, for example, like the nazis used the -- >> we'll talk about that in the third segment. >> it's so overregulated. he had to get government off the back of the american people. >> off the back of business. rich, i mean, you're in silicone valley. you see businesses there, they're producing, creating new businesses and how much more could happen if the right policies were in place? >> that's so exactly right. now the republicans can go down two roads.

they can go down the path of anger and they can go down the path of api ration and anger might win the headlines and satisfy the base but aspiration moves the economy and wins elections. that's what they have to show. >> the president, it is the tedious orgy of self righteousness out of the white house. >> nice phrase. >> that was out of "forbes" magazine. we're the hero, the first responders. they're with your money first responders, with raising taxes and mistake spending and tax heights for achievement. that's the last eight years. we have flatlining gdp growth. >> they're representatives, supposed to represent us, the taxpayers. we are who they're supposed to be the servants of. do they get it inside the beltway? finally, is at least that a part of the equation right now? >> i don't know if they get it, david. i think some people do and rich is absolutely right that leadership is so important in

the sense that we're able to communicate effectively. i think a lot of people are in agreement on so many of the issues and never hear from the gop on a more effective, stronger policies. right? hearing that the president is initiating an executive order on paid leave mandates destructive to the economy and jobs, they go along with it but we need eff t effective leadership. >> final word. one word. steve, optimistic or pessimistic? >> optimistic. obama doesn't want a deal. he wants tax rates going up. this is good. >> that was a dozen words. >> all right. we'll take it, though. >> i'm the boss. >> coming up next, unions riding over cost cuts in europe as the white house pushes for more union power in the u.s. is this really want we want in the u.s.? we debate. you decide. can a business have a mind?

a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive?

now back to "forbes on fox." wow. look at these pictures.

union workers ripping the back off of their 'em employeers as union workers lash out over there. now the white house wants to give unions more power over here. president obama saying this week that we need even stronger laws to help unions but, mike, are stronger labor laws going to lead us to the european model? >> yes, david. france had the worst economy of all the major industrial nations in europe since 1990. we do not want the french model. it creates an environment where people don't want to invest in businesses and removes incentive for workers to produce. >> bruce, you know, we look at those scenes over there and we think, it could never happen here but couldn't it? >> i don't know about that. i don't think so. i think what the president is doing is he's going back to his roots here in chicago where he was a big supporter of the health care workers which they raised benefits and they raised

salaries in the lower paid health care workers and worked to improve quality of hospitals with better policies to control infections. >> but, rich, when you talk about the president going back to his activist roots, that doesn't make me feel better. does it make you feel better? >> no, it doesn't. look. union membership and private companies is trending down. he's concerned about that. there's a reason why it's trending down. the american people are glad that it is. >> by the way, let me interrupt for a second, rich. trending down in the private sector but, of course, union membership among government workers in the public sector that red line is going up. >> yeah. it is. and even fdr thought that public sector unions were fundamentally -- should be against the law because they pitted americans against their own government. but look. he's trying to stop this great trend. in france, we saw earlier this summer people overturning uber cars. in the united states, we embrace

them. >> most of us do but the union lobby doesn't. steve, again, when you compare france to the united states, look at the strikes, the number of strikes they have there is incredible and number of man hours lost. 3.8 million man hours lost in france because of strike, 10 times what we have here. >> that unionization shreds flexibility and innovation. you saw it in this nation, detroit shackled, the rest of the country not. the auto industry and the rest of the country in terms of manufacturing did very well. >> john, what do you think? >> well, i just think the point here is president obama shouldn't have an opinion on the matter at all. there's fiction that persists the president creates jobs. they do no such thing. the stance should be he will protect the rights of individuals to contract with a business, if that's unions, fine. the but the president should not have an opinion. >> by the way, the number i put out not man hours.

that's man days. working days that are lost because of these strikes in france. >> wow. >> a huge number. >> huge number. you saw also the fever line chart started in 2009 with more government workers than unions versus union workers in the private sector. that's under the obama administration. yes. you know, steve is right. you know, france is, you know, we had it in detroit. what we have right now is union workers and the government, can't reorganize the office fourn chur without calling in a union official and unionized audio viz yosual workers in fra. they're working from home and surfing the internet or doing the laundry. >> mike, i don't want to get too conspire toirl but do you think what the president is doing is trying to increase the membership, increase the power of unions in the united states and left to the private sector going down to almost zero. >> that's not a conspiracy, david. that's a fact. the unions fund president

obama's campaign. so this is payback for them. it's that simple. if we want economic growth, you got -- we should be looking towards germany which has reduced the power of the unions. germany's unemployment rate is half that of france's which is strengthened the unions. >> bruce, just coincidental that the lower the private sector unions become in this country the more productive we have been over the past 20 years, say? >> well, i don't know about that. i think that in one area where it has gone up are people that obama worked with and the health care sector. private sector unions have grown in that area and seen that and going back to. >> steve? >> they did support him. so you're right. he's seen it work. >> a little payback. is it true they're becoming more productive, steve? >> no. that's why we get real free enterprise for free markets in health care and why even the nation allay boar relations board and the president aren't going to be able to turn back the clock.

unionization is declining and going to hit the public sector and can't afford the inflexibility the pensions and what else they have done. >> rich, going back to you as the silicone valley expert or ambassador, i should say, liberals in silicone valley supportive of unions. there aren't a lot of unions there, are there? >> yeah. you know. they talk one way and act another way. it's fashionable to be liberal and very, very entrepreneurial. we're not going to have economic growth unless we have productivity growth and that's the key and only get that unleashing untremendous prene i >> $260 billion in compensation for union workers. they get nearly 80% more in total compensation versus the private sector. >> john, it is not that we're against unions but there does seem to be a connection of a

government gets involved, ' empowering unions leads to less productivity. >> any kind of government intervention leads to less productivity but thinking about unions and the private sector, they're not needed anymore. you look out to silicone valley. netflix is offering unlimited vacation time. look at google's campus. >> yeah. >> companies compete with one another to win workers. the idea of unions for benefits is laughable. >> leave it to the free market, folks. thank you. eric, what do you have? >> hey, david. donald trump doubling down on russia becoming isis in syria. plus, did one gop lawmaker just figure out how to get the people's work done and done on time? just by doing something every hard working american does every day. we'll explain. see you at 11:30. >> see you. we'll be watching. thank you. up here, first, we know the epa goes after minors but did they

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critics of the epa say it's become a rogue bureaucracy bending the law to kill projects it doesn't like. and a new report, a big one, tending to back all this up saying the agency acted unfairly putting the brakes on a gold and copper mining projects in alaska, one of the largest in the world. rich, you say it's even worse than it appears.

how so? >> well, it's not only wrong it's dictatorial and poisonous. earlier we were talking about france. a problem of france is that entrepreneurs feel like they have to seek permission even step one in a project. americans do stuff and then they ask for forgiveness. but this is really changing the game in a bad way. >> yeah. by the way, bruce, this report, it was commissioned by the plaintiff, by the copper and gold mining company but the guy who did it, william cohen, a former defense secretary, given complete freedom to say whatever he wanted. >> yeah. and he did. and i think in this instance i don't think the epa did a bad thing because there is a large run of salmon 150 miles upstream in this bay area and it's supports hundreds if not thousands of jobs and i think that they've been transparent about it. you might like it but they've been transparent. >> sabrina, they're supposed to be an arbitrator.

they overwhelmingly listened to just one side, the folks against this plan. >> right. an they went against normal processes and someone could then present the alternative side and then instead used a sort of not used often veto power they have. we have the huge bills like the clean water act and the clean air act to give the epa sort of an endless rule to act sort of as god choosing who will flourish and who will fail. this is very bad. i want my kids to have clean water and jobs. >> i'm with bruce. there's a lot of fishing businesses up there affected by it but the epa is overstepping the regulatory powers invading the states even with coal. >> a rogue agency? too much to say? >> i think we give them way too much credit. they wouldn't know a good from bad project. we're talking about people who could not get jobs in the industries they want to regulate. >> steve, what do you think? >> it is -- it is a rogue agency, david. they're waging a jihad against

mining, waging it against coal, natural gas, oil. and they are just making the law up as they go. that's going to change. right now, we have to get through the next year or so. >> you think it's going to change? >> yes, it is. >> all right. you heard it from steve forbes, folks. coming up, more than 6 in 10 personals reportedly have less than $1,000 this their

monday former congressman joe lieberman. warehouse, lum eber company? >> yeah. i'm liking the way the stock is performing. >> mike? >> love the dividend and leary of the $5 billion of debt.

>> you like silver now. >> it's a great hedge against the federal reserve. >> a hedge against the reserve. >> i agree. i like this silver play. >> all right. commodities are volatile. be careful. at's it for us. have a great weekend. keep it right here. eric bowling continues and "cashin' in." russirussia's now talking tb isis. what are we talking about? they want to bomb them, let them bomb them. bomb the hell out of them. bomb them. >> gop front-runner donald trump doubling down on what he told us about russia right here last week. he thinks it's better to let them russia fight isis. but i wonder what the donald thinks about this news. russian smugglers busted for